781 and 1401fpt. No water/meth this time. TTS Extreme, Power Shot, shot of N2O. YA HOOO. PFI dyno day. Sheet is being scaned. Will post soon. Lots of witnesses. again. Dynojet this time. elevation at 5200 ft. Where there.Edited by: Super Diesel

Well congratulations again.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

"781 and 1401fpt" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif SD- Don't you know diesels don't make hp- just ask some of my dumb-*ss friends. Besides- those aluminum heads melt too easy... Right On!

Frank (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002071/) : Anything? Well, uh I guess I, deep down, am feeling a little confused. I mean, suddenly, you get married, and you're supposed to be this entirely different guy. I don't feel different. I mean, take yesterday for example. We were out at the Olive Garden for dinner, which was lovely. And uh, I happen to look over at a certain point during the meal and see a waitress taking an order, and I found myself wondering what color her underpants might be. Her panties. Uh, odds are they are probably basic white, cotton, underpants. But I sort of think well maybe they're silk panties, maybe it's a thong. Maybe it's something really cool that I don't even know about. You know, and uh, and I started feeling... what? what I thought we were in the trust tree in the nest, were we not? I mean if you had 781 horses in your garage then why not blow your smoke all over town! Uh, maybe she would be appreciative of 1401 ft/lbs of twisted sister!








Gator Done!!!

sd , i need to sell my lly and go back to my lb7. That way i can learn from o b one.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Awesome job, keep her going http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

Good Job SD! I know that truck has some fast passes in store for it at the track! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Great job SD. I hope to be at the track this coming weekend finally
Scott

Thanks every one. I backed my #s up with less stuff going in this time. And this is still a bone STOCK engine (no new components inside yet). Just the TTS Extreme (SUPER BIG THANKS again to Steve), Normal shot of propane, and a .125 shot of N2O. No heavy duty head studs yet. Compleatly factory turbo and injectors. Any one with a Dmax can do this. Edited by: Super Diesel

That's insane! About 1000HP at the crank in a street truck without touching the motor. Amazing.

Good job! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Yes, I must say from someone that was there to see it, it was quite amazing!!!


When that truck gets going on the dyno it really gets everyone fired up!!! Even the big power Dodge guys running twins were giving him the big thumbs up!!!! The funny thing is there was only 4 duramax's there and out of about 50-60 trucks that ran that day he took 1st in HP.......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Way to go SD! I think we already have the dodge guys playing catch up....LOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I forgot to mention, stock air box (a few extra breather holes) and stock PAPER filter from AC Delco. They do flow.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

SD.......i am not worthyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


BTW..... what is considered a 'normal' shot of propane? LOL


Glad to hear no carnage!

Michael that was an awesome run!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Just think, that 4th tire would have probably been worth another 50HP. (JKhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif)


Josh

A normal shot means, the standard setting on the Power Shot 2000 that it comes with from the factory. About 5 turns out (just wanted to clear that up). You did an awsome run on #2 Josh! Wonderful job man. I had to take one of my out side tires off the back to run on the dyno. I guess propane isn't normal is it? Edited by: Super Diesel

Thank You sir! I was EXTREMELY pleased with it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Josh

WOW...........what else can I say........what size n20 jet?

Super Dieselhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

The N2O jet is a .125 single shot.

Super Dieselhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

SD,





Just wondering what the numbers were just on diesel... no nitros, no propaine??


Pete

wheres the sheet?

Congrats SD happy to hear you got the truck going againhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Edited by: Bowtie Boy

781 RWHP is just freakin awesome! Scares me to think what your dragster will do! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Keep leading the way, SD! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


Tom http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pig.gif

In reality once you take away the correction factor the HP numbers are in the 670-680. This is with a factor of 15%. I believe the correction factor on that dyno in the altitude is closer to 20% at most times.


Not a rip or anything, just a heads up.


Don~

Awesome Super D!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Don...your an a$$ no matter where you go..how bout it. 670-680...still more than your cummins Don.

Ho Hum


Another near 800hp run, boring. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif J/K http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Your truck is impressive Mike; good job. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

Super Dieselhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif





DOUBLE DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock%20On.gif THAT DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock%20On.gif

Super Dieselhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif





DOUBLE DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock%20On.gif THAT DITTOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock%20On.gif


rock on quote fest!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

Way to go Mike! very impressive!!

What an accomplishment SD!! Keep up the good work!


Doug

Did that help you feel better Don? So what was the power on the top Dodges Don? I beat them by almost 100hp and 150hp on the runner up, both running twins with friends. By the way, what did YOURS dyno up here? LazerBob was there man. Thanks for all the congrats every one. Sure glad to be helping putting Dmax on top. This is getting exciting! Edited by: Super Diesel

Did that help you feel better Don? So what was the power on the top Dodges Don? I beat them by almost 100hp and 150hp on the runner up, both running twins with friends. By the way, what did YOURS dyno up here? LazerBob was there man. Thanks for all the congrats every one. Sure glad to be helping putting Dmax on top. This is getting exciting!


No matter what mud is slung, in a contest of 'Run What You Brung' you came out on top slapped a few others and went home a winner.


I am closing on Some others sporting twins, and when we ever get a set for the DMX there is going to be a reckoning in the diesel world.


We do have a slight advantage compared to the HPCR Dodges as well.


Anyone know what it is? aside from the obvious 2 extra cylinders and .7 liters more displacement we do have the advantage in a bigger common rail...because we all use the CP3, our advantage is to run the dyno at part throttle and then open her up.... we have more avail fuel volume and pressure... if only for a short time, but it is there.

The pricks surface when threatened and they just happen to own Dogdes!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Nice freakin #'s Super D!


Blake

The pricks surface when threatened and they just happen to own Dogdes!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Nice freakin #'s Super D!


** Blake

kindalike a porcupine..........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/F2Z_porcupine.jpgEdited by: sdaver

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Sorry to get everyone sooo uptight. Im not taking away anything. He still won and all the other trucks had the correction factors applied as well. Im just letting you guys know that a correction factor of 15-20% is bogus.


If Mike would dyno his truck in low elevation with the same mods, he would be surprised in the drastic drop of indicated power. Nothing more was meant.


I had a customer there that made 691 using my injectors and ported cylinder head. We all knew the numbers were high no matter how badly I would love to say the guy did that much, its just not accurate. In normal altitudes with little to no correction factor these same mods make around 600 HP and this has played out in over 30 trucks with the same set-ups.


Sorry it sounded like I was trying to be-little the corrected numbers. That was not the intention at all.


Don~

Sorry I left one of your built trucks in the dust Don. That's three different dynos now (2 Mustangs and one Dynojet). That's to bad no one has a good dyno here in Colorado. Wonder what a Dmax would do with all that work put into it and running twins as well. What was the torque on that truck? 1136 wasn't it?

Your taking it personally I see. Sorry, that was not the intent at all.





Don~

Either way, the numbers are huge, and when compared to the other trucks, apparently the spanking was brutal.


While correction factors are exaggerated for turbo motors, uncorrected is not valid either. I know density altitude affects my truck at the track, so I'm positive it affects the HP on a dyno.


The best gauge is probably HP increase over stock done at the same correction. A stock Duramax pushes 240-250 rwhp at 1.00 correction (auto) on a dynojet. By looking at what that dyno says a stocker puts down, it can give everyone some frame of reference.


Were there any stock trucks tied down?

I think I was the closest to stock that day. I ran 453HP with 800+fpt http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif. LOL, that was with the hot/OJ 125 box with the quad 215 and a VA pressure box with timing removed. Still running stock 3.5" exhaust straight piped and stock intake. Does that count as stock???? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I don't think anyone took any completely stock runs.

I think I was the closest to stock that day. I ran 453HP with 800+fpt http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif. LOL, that was with the hot/OJ 125 box with the quad 215 and a VA pressure box with timing removed. Still running stock 3.5" exhaust straight piped and stock intake. Does that count as stock???? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I don't think anyone took any completely stock runs.





Hmmmm... let me see... no turbo change, no injector change... close enough for me!

Very impressive #'s Super Diesel.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif It would be cool to get #'s like that out of a 6.2Lhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Aren't you worried about grenading that engine with all that power?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Anyways keep up the good work S.D.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

Either way, the numbers are huge, and when compared to the other trucks, apparently the spanking was brutal.


While correction factors are exaggerated for turbo motors, uncorrected is not valid either. I know density altitude affects my truck at the track, so I'm positive it affects the HP on a dyno.


The best gauge is probably HP increase over stock done at the same correction. A stock Duramax pushes 240-250 rwhp at 1.00 correction (auto) on a dynojet. By looking at what that dyno says a stocker puts down, it can give everyone some frame of reference.


Were there any stock trucks tied down?








At the last ATS Dyno Day (in Colorado) "gary" ran his complete stock DMAX at 228 hp, IIRC. . . . .


I know SP33D is making changes to his truck. Based on what he is learning (from SD and others) and investing I would expect him to show some huge HPs next year. He was almost 600 HPs at PFI and it would have been more if . . . (I will leave it to him to explain).


Anyhow, the more I watch DMAXs perform the better I like them http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Way to go Mike, wish I could of been there I am sure I missed a lot of fun.


Wade Careful man the trans will be coming soon, thumbs up to you and Chad also. Yall gonna get there.


Geno

<font size="6">wow!!</font> thats crazy. what kind of egts did it see???

Wasn't looking at the EGTs. It spun the rollers to fast to get a good look. THERE'S A NEW MAYOR IN TRUCK VILLE. Sp33d will turn heads next season. I'm stepping aside to prove this is very repeatable on any Dmax out there. Be watching a few others out there. I'm not going to mention names yet besides Sp33d. There are a few others getting ready to turn heads as well. Some one is letting the dogs out (or is that DMAXES).

Wasn't looking at the EGTs. It spun the rollers to fast to get a good look. THERE'S A NEW MAYOR IN TRUCK VILLE. Sp33d will turn heads next season. I'm stepping aside to prove this is very repeatable on any Dmax out there. Be watching a few others out there. I'm not going to mention names yet besides Sp33d. There are a few others getting ready to turn heads as well. Some one is letting the dogs out (or is that DMAXES).


OH YEAH!

SD made some great runs. It was fun watching some of the guys there when he made his third pass and it laid right on top of his 781hp pass... They didn't think he could duplicate it. Everyone in the shop was clapping though and for some reason most knew immediately that he had won, and the day was only half over. He's definitely got his truck tuned nicely. I have to say that the ride in his truck later that night on that very SHORT road was a bit scarey... That stop sign came EXTREMELY quick.


My runs weren't what I expected but several things happened that made the day go worse than anticipated for the truck...


A lot will be happening this winter for many of us. Next year should definitely be fun for all diesel heads. Thunder in Indianapolis is going to be great next year. I think we'll see a few (or lot) more Duramaxes in the winners circle.

SD made some great runs. It was fun watching some of the guys there when he made his third pass and it laid right on top of his 781hp pass... They didn't think he could duplicate it. Everyone in the shop was clapping though and for some reason most knew immediately that he had won, and the day was only half over. He's definitely got his truck tuned nicely. I have to say that the ride in his truck later that night on that very SHORT road was a bit scarey... That stop sign came EXTREMELY quick.


My runs weren't what I expected but several things happened that made the day go worse than anticipated for the truck...


A lot will be happening this winter for many of us. Next year should definitely be fun for all diesel heads. Thunder in Indianapolis is going to be great next year. I think we'll see a few (or lot) more Duramaxes in the winners circle.





So I'll mark my calender u'll be there w/ your 800+hp truck http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif


Can't wait till May

So I'll mark my calender u'll be there w/ your 800+hp truck http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif


Can't wait till May





I know there's going to be a few of us there http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

Guys are a little cocky, huh?



It's a shame you have to blast somebody just for suggesting the numbers might be a little high because of whatever.



Anyway, congrats on the big numbers guys! And yes I think you have alot
more things coming in the future to really start breaking stuff.

He'll be Stomping too. STOMP, STOMP, STOMP!!! Edited by: Super Diesel

Sorry Hoot. He called me out. This is the 3rd time I have gotten that on a dyno up here. I guess our dynos up here need to come from somewhere else to be any good or legit. The dyno owners up here are really happy to know that.

Guys are a little cocky, huh?

It's a shame you have to blast somebody just for suggesting the numbers might be a little high because of whatever.

Anyway, congrats on the big numbers guys! And yes I think you have alot more things coming in the future to really start breaking stuff.



The normal response to a fellow trucker's accomplishment would be "congrats", not "the dyno must be wrong". Is it crazy to believe nitrous and propane could add 280HP? Because there is no doubt now that a Dmax can surpass 500 with just tuning on #2.


It's funny how when a car/truck runs at high DA, all the flatlanders say "How come you are so slow???", you respond, "But it was at 5500ft DA!", and the comeback is, "So??? You're still slow."


Then if they dyno with the same correction software every flatlander uses also, they scoff, "BUT YOU WERE AT HIGH DA!!! IT DOESN'T COUNT!!"


They really need to make up their minds.


And much like the flatlanders say, "You should take it out and dyno it at sea level." My suggestion is that THEY give it a shot at high DA. Trust me, their cockiness will soon diminish.


Little story. We had a guy come out to visit from Texas. He bragged his car ran 12's, and would smoke most of us. OPPSSS!!! He ran 14.0 at our track on his best run. The moral? You can only judge performance numbers based on the conditions present, NOT national numbers.

Correction factor? Doesn't it apply to everybody? Corrects for altitude and ambient temps?



I'm not a dyno expert. What's the main reason for correction factor and who applies it? everybody? Correctly?



Is there a standard perfect dyno that is the labratory standard that's
used to calibrate all dynos? Are there guys that come out with test
instruments to calibrate them?



Lot of curiosity questions that's all. I hear it's rough comparing
numbers from different dynos from different parts of teh country with
different operators at differnt times of the year. Best to run all the trucks on the same dyno the
same day for comparison or else you get nit picking over 50 hp.



No doubt the Max has incredible capability out of the box compared to
what needs to be done to the Cummins and the PSD to hold the
headgaskets. Funny how quiet everything is on Dmax headgaskets now.
Very few failures and not so easy to blow in the extreme hp ranges as
the Cummins from what I read.


Edited by: hoot

So wheres the sheet?

Sorry Hoot. He called me out. This is the 3rd time I have gotten that on a dyno up here. I guess our dynos up here need to come from somewhere else to be any good or legit. The dyno owners up here are really happy to know that.


No kidding... unless it is in their own backyard in front of them, there will always be those who doubt.

Sorry Hoot. He called me
out. This is the 3rd time I have gotten that on a dyno up
here. I guess our dynos up here need to come from somewhere
else to be any good or legit. The dyno owners up here are really
happy to know that.


No kidding... unless it is in their own backyard in front of them, there will always be those who doubt.



Are they using French dynos up there? That might draw a flag

Edited by: hoot

Sorry Hoot. He called me out. This is the 3rd time I have gotten that on a dyno up here. I guess our dynos up here need to come from somewhere else to be any good or legit. The dyno owners up here are really happy to know that.


No kidding... unless it is in their own backyard in front of them, there will always be those who doubt.




Are they using French dynos up there? That might draw a flag



No, we don't use French Dynos.... Accurate ones ASL (At Sea Level) work well. Correction factors are to COMPENSATE for Altitude, Barometric Pressure and Temperature.


Working in a STP condition (Standard Temperature and Pressure) will allow for a more accurate run.


Too bad... someone better let the 'Mayor' know that his term is almost up!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Correction factor? Doesn't it apply to everybody? Corrects for altitude and ambient temps?

I'm not a dyno expert. What's the main reason for correction factor and who applies it? everybody? Correctly?

Is there a standard perfect dyno that is the labratory standard that's used to calibrate all dynos? Are there guys that come out with test instruments to calibrate them?

Lot of curiosity questions that's all. I hear it's rough comparing numbers from different dynos from different parts of teh country with different operators at differnt times of the year. Best to run all the trucks on the same dyno the same day for comparison or else you get nit picking over 50 hp.

No doubt the Max has incredible capability out of the box compared to what needs to be done to the Cummins and the PSD to hold the headgaskets. Funny how quiet everything is on Dmax headgaskets now. Very few failures and not so easy to blow in the extreme hp ranges as the Cummins from what I read.



The only dyno I'm intimate with is the DynoJet (I did wear protection). It tends to be VERY repeatable installation to installation. It's just a drum of a known weight, and measures how fast you accelerate it. It measures HP, not torque (it calculates torque from the HP readings).


The question comes in with the software correction. To try and make all readings the same regardless of the time of year, time of day, and physical altitude, they correct the atmospheric condition to a known, accepted standard.


The problem is, the correction factor is based on naturally aspirated engines, not turbo or bottle fed engines. You can't correct for forced induction because it's a factor of boost, intercooling, efficiency, type of blower, etc. Too many variables.


You could of course just eliminate the correction. But it doesn't "fix" anything. There is a loss at altitude on blown engines, even if it's not the same as NA engines. And there are dynos at sea level that have better than SAE air. You must correct them downward.


Or you end up just like the 1/4 mi ET's: Nothing done at altitude will ever get any respect, and the guys with "sweet" air will always be the hot set-up no matter what their engine actually can put out at SAE.


I guess to appease the scoffers, it would be polite if everyone just moved to New England or South Texas so we can all run unrealistic numbers at -1000 DA.


A thought on the DMax headgaskets - A 6.6 V-8 32v engine does not need the same cylinder pressure to make 500HP as a 5.9 I6 24v or a 6.0 V-8 32v engine does. It takes roughly 10% less (think 50rwhp) pressure to accomplish that with the Dmax.

I guess to appease the scoffers, it would be polite if everyone just moved to New England or South Texas so we can all run unrealistic numbers at -1000 DA.





McRat.... stop it... the guys at work want to know what i am laughing so hard about.... you really crack me up!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Is it cylinder pressure that has killed the dmaxes thus far or is it more of a hydrolocking issue with trying to cram too much into the chamber? Pretty close to the same thing witht the same results but....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

Is it cylinder pressure that has killed the dmaxes thus far or is it more of a hydrolocking issue with trying to cram too much into the chamber? Pretty close to the same thing witht the same results but....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

My guess is too much water/meth, propane, nos, ect crammed into the chamber

We talking bent rods?

Hoot, Thats happend too I believe. Sometimes it can do both sometimes just one or the other.


I just havent herd of anybody technicly "blowing" one up or realy blowing a gasket, its more of a hydrolocking thing so far I think right? I guess its a non issue since scrapnel is scrapnelhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif


If its a hydrolocking issue though are head studs and gaskets really the answer? All thats going to do is garantee the bottom end opening up the oil pan right instead of a 50/50 shot of it going out the headgasket or pissing off a rod?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


Just clueless and curioushttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gifEdited by: ratlover

No engine that I'm aware of will survive a hydrolock at RPM. If the head doesn't lift, a rod will bend, or a piston break, or a cyl crack. Somethings got to give. Putting in stronger parts will just insure they fly further when they give.

Exactly my pointhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif


If hydrolocking is what has been doing these things then the only "fix" is to not hydrolock it. Beefier parts just mean more stuff scatters.


Right???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

I think the water/meth and liquid propane have been the biggest causes of failure.


A beefed up lower end with studs for the heads should make tons of power with a bigger turbo or compound turbos or a snot load of nitrous without the worry of hydro-locking.


I think we can consitently approach 800 ponies with programming, injectors and nitrous tuning. No propane or water meth. JMO. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif


I know what mine does at 800' MSL so screw that correction factor business. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley13.gif Good Job SD!

Screw the correction factor crap. He kicked a twin turbo dodges a** by almost a 100HP!!!! And after talking with the owner of the dodge he's got a heap load of crap done to that thing. Cams, intake, twins, injectors, fuel pumps, head studs, springs, all arp fastners, tranny, porting and oversized valves. Thats just what he can name off. What I think is cool is how the dodge owner gave michael the big thumbs up for putting on such a great show. He even gave a ear full to a ford guy that was talking crap about how michael was using drugs, he told him power is power!!!! not matter how you make it, it's stil the same thing........POWER!!!


I think the next person that wants to talk trash about Michael numbers better D*mn well have a truck to come to colorado and show him up . This crap is really starting to Piss me off http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif, every time he runs his truck someone has to start making excuses why he had such great numbers, must have been the correction factor, maybe it was the breeze in front of the shop, had to have been operator error. All I have to say is GET OVER IT!!!!! the only reason your whinning is because you either don't have the balls to try what he has or you don't have a Duramax.

Ditto IBMAX'IN


Couldn't have said it any better.

Guess it's time for the Dodge boys to relinguish. The Ford boys never
made it. I can see where frustration kicks in after going through all
kinds of major upgrades only to be whipped by an Isuzu... with only a
box and a few tricks.






Edited by: hoot

Very well put IBDMAX'N

Hoot,


no flame intended your way, I know what you've done for all us d-max guys. Although your a dodge boy now, I know deep down you'll always be a d-max guy. Sucks your truck had to go out the way it did. I'll always read your posts with repect and thankfullness to have such a wealth of information from a true "Diesel Enthusiast".

Thanks man...



The Cummins right now has really been a lot of fun. I like to just say
what I see and feel. Some get bent... sometimes I do. We get over it.
I'm not upset about the GMC... it took a beatin from me, the tree and
the bodyman and it went out lookin first class to the wholesaler. Maybe
Broker bought it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif



I typically give them three years or so and get another new one anyway.

[The only dyno I'm intimate with is the DynoJet (I did wear protection).


McRat, did this result in the bent rod Hoot was talking about?

Uncorrected numbers are more accurate for judging progress on a Dynojet. I have dynoed on 5-6 different dynojets from near sea level to here in Boise (2800') and all the uncorrected numbers have been consistent. Corrected numbers have varied over 50hp. Just considering the performance of my trucks on the road after about 4-4500' it starts to effect the performance considerably. I have been to Denver and there is a big difference but the correction factor difference is huge compared to here where it is normally 7-10%. I have seen way to many people dissapointed when they came from high elevation to a lower elevation when it comes to dynoing. I'm not taking away from what SD did just giving a little insite into the differences I've experienced with 100+ dyno runs on a dynojet. BTW good job SD.


Did the dodge run NO2 as well or was he on #2 only? Twins actually cost hp when using NO2 is why I ask. A single turbo and NO2 will always be able to dyno higher because it's like having a turbo in a bottle without any parasitic loss. If you look back at the numbers the dodge guys did on singles and NO2 before twins became popular you'll see that their numbers are way higher than anyone has been able to do with twins. Another reason twins dyno lower on a dynojet is because they cant reach their full boost potential due to a lower load than on the road. The highest I've run on a dyno is 59psi and I do 75psi at the track. Yet my track times are as fast as NO2 trucks running 60-70+hp higher.


Nathan

Nathan.... i was looking at a bigger turbo today.... might have to get you up here for a week or two.....


Time to lower some EGT's


BTW nice showing at SIR.....Edited by: Got Juice?

So is a move towards lower compression pistons or a larger combustion chamber going to solve the bent rod issue?


How low can you go in compression and still ignite the fuel charge?





Food for thought.......


Blake

The dyno sheet (which has been scaned) is stuck in my E-Mail which is screwed up right now. Sorry. AH yeh, thanks Idaho CTDhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif. I know I would rather run the power at higher elevations where the air is much thinner rather than down low where it can breath a little. Better talk to Maddog about lossing power with N2O when running twins.Edited by: Super Diesel

Uncorrected numbers are more accurate for judging progress on a Dynojet. I have dynoed on 5-6 different dynojets from near sea level to here in Boise (2800') and all the uncorrected numbers have been consistent. ...


I routinely run at altitudes from 200' to 2710', and I can assure you that even in a turbo or nitrous engine there IS a difference in HP that shows up without a doubt. It shows in the ET and the MPH.


And I can prove that a TD will lose power as the air thins, especially if air temperature is doing the thinning, but also with altitude.


And if all the readings were "inflated", then how come the Cummins didn't do better? Or the "correction error" only affects GM products?

The dyno sheet (which has been scaned) is stuck in my E-Mail which is screwed up right now. Sorry. AH yeh, thanks Idaho CTDhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif. I know I would rather run the power at higher elevations where the air is much thinner rather than down low where it can breath a little. Better talk to Maddog about lossing power with N2O whan running twins.








If Maddog would run a large single and a equally large wastegate and about 15lbs of nos per pass he'd produce more hp on the dyno then he can on twins and #2 or twins and nos. Wether you guys believe it or not it's true. I'm not trying to play down what you've done SD, I'm just trying to explain what I've been through and seen with my trucks. My '02 truck has done 700.1hp with correction factor on #2 only and 648hp uncorrected. It has only done it on my local dyno though. It has done 630's hp (uncorrected) elsewhere but never the 648hp number. With corrected numbers it has varied from 630hp to a high of 700.1 on my local dyno. My 04.5 has done as high as 586hp on #2 here and did 526hp in Muncie and 554hp in Spokane. I have been disappointed when dynoing elsewhere before I realized the correction factor differences.


You have to realize that the correction factor for a dynojet was designed for NA gas engines not turbocharged diesels. Gas motors use vacuum to draw fuel where as we use forced induction through turbos. Essentially we create our own air and are less susceptible to atmospheric changes. While I do agree some correction factor is warranted it is exagerated at high elevations.


Juice,


Thanks but I didn't get past the first round even though I won my race. I blew a freeze plug out of the back of my block. That is the reason they shut down the track for 45 minutes or so http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif. I thought it was the tranny cuz the new antifreeze is orange and kinda oily. I thought it was ATF http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif. I had to pull the tranny to access the freeze plug. It got a little sticky stuff to help it stay put this time, besides there are 4 more in the block.


Nathan

Nathan time for twin spins on the maxipad.....


EGT's are a bit too warm.... 0-60MPH in 1800F


tried it today in 70F weather.. not brake torqued.. just a roll on... brutal

So is a move towards lower compression pistons or a larger combustion chamber going to solve the bent rod issue?


Blake

I don't think there is a bent rod "issue". No one running diesel and nitrous has had a problem with headgaskets and rods while making big power. Liquid propane and/or tons of water/meth with diesel and nitrous is what has killed a few headgaskets and rods. Anything injected into the motor that isn't totally atomized and has different burn characteristics than diesel fuel can lead to problems in any diesel motor.Edited by: mtomac

Humidity will cause you to dyno lower because there is less room in the cumbustion chamber for fuel and air. There will be Dmaxs all over the country next season making some big HPs and taking the center stage to prove my point. Any Dmax with ONLY tuning, a little extra fuel, and some N2O can make the big #s. Were going to up the bar and watch the excuses fly. Time for a bigger jet Brandon. Guess what, we dont need twins! I took some guys from here for a ride at full tilt and showed them why I do not need to drive around in a truck that makes 700-800hp (400hp to make some feel better that are floating on a river called denial) as a everyday driver. To dam dangerous. You can't hit the breaks to slow down for things in an emergency fast enough. I'll turn my switches down on the road. 500hp (300hp to make some feel better) is plenty to take care of buisness usually (humiliation actually). Edited by: Super Diesel

So is a move towards lower compression pistons or a larger combustion chamber going to solve the bent rod issue?



Blake




I don't think there is a bent rod "issue". No one running diesel and nitrous has had a problem with headgaskets and rods while making big power. Liquid propane and/or tons of water/meth with diesel and nitrous is what has killed a few headgaskets and rods. Anything injected into the motor that isn't totally atomized and has different burn characteristics than diesel fuel can lead to problems in any diesel motor.





What about the guy who went BOOM right off the Xmas tree light?Wasn't that #2 and Nitrous? A Vid was posted.





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gifEdited by: Mackin

Funny how the Ford guys who didn't make any changes to their setup are posting that their dyno numbers were right in line with their last ones...


Maybe the dyno only reads correctly for the Fords and Dodges, but not GM?? After all it was a Ford and Dodge event... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Funny how the Ford guys who didn't make any changes to their setup are posting that their dyno numbers were right in line with their last ones...


Maybe the dyno only reads correctly for the Fords and Dodges, but not GM?? After all it was a Ford and Dodge event... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif








The sad truth is going to come out, the operator was sandbagging on his run http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


He was really 981 RWHP 1855 torque but cut it back to make the others feel better http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Humidity will cause you to dyno lower because there is less room in the cumbustion chamber for fuel and air. There will be Dmaxs all over the country next season making some big HPs and taking the center stage to prove my point. Any Dmax with ONLY tuning, a little extra fuel, and some N2O can make the big #s. Were going to up the bar and watch the excuses fly. Time for a bigger jet Brandon. Guess what, we dont need twins! I took some guys from here for a ride at full tilt and showed them why I do not need to drive around in a truck that makes 700-800hp (400hp to make some feel better that are floating on a river called denial) as a everyday driver. To dam dangerous. You can't hit the breaks to slow down for things in an emergency fast enough. I'll turn my switches down on the road. 500hp (300hp to make some feel better) is plenty to take care of buisness usually (humiliation actually).





That aint no crap! Even a 125 juice will get you into trouble in a hurry in traffic. But its sooo hard not to have that switch set to killhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif I'll admit, I have no self controllhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif

That aint no crap! Even a 125 juice will get you into trouble in a hurry in traffic. But its sooo hard not to have that switch set to killhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif I'll admit, I have no self controllhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif


[/QUOTE]


Yup.... the VanAAken is deceptive too.... only a puff of black, and then objects in mirrors start disappearing..... tunnel vision up front, tires howling... passengers howling... me howling.... etc etc.


very scary stuff this electronics stuff... one or two tiny electronic boxes can cause this kind of adolescent fun!


sh!t eating grins becomes the order of the day....


Life begins at 100MPHhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif I'll second that!!!

I was just thinking, you could dyno at Pikes Peak.


That would give you a correction factor of at least 60%. You would be an instant hero at over 1000 HP. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Add the larger nitrous pill, some more methanol, and really drive the point home that you are the best Diesel tuner in the whole wide world and the dyno proved it for everyone to see.


Don~

4x4man,


Nice job on the vids man!!! We'll have to get together more often for more events.


by the way you should PM me your Cell# so next time me and the trouble makers hit the town you could join us.


SD,


I agree with you completely. In fact I think that the only reason the dodge guys get sooooo upset is because you have the ability to turn your 781HP on and off.


All in all I think you have the ultimate set up. you can still drive it to work or on a trip to good old Mexico and not have to worry about burning something up, but then you go to the dyno or the track and put all the trailer fairy's to shame!!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Rock on SD!!!


I think that in the near future the chevy &amp; GMC dealers will become dodge lots because of all the trade in's.

Don,


Why don't you join us at pikes peak with the same correction factor so he could put a whoopin on your a** again. I know that would make me feel better.


Sorry SD took all you glory away from you. must suck to get you butt handed to you by a little d-max with just a couple of goodies under the hood........LOL, Got smoked by a dually........must suck to be you!!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Not only can he turn the power on and off he can stop and fill the bottle every few runs on the dyno or race track. Sounds like a real renewable source for the power as long as you have the cash and time to keep filling the bottle. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Don~

I was just thinking, you could dyno at Pikes Peak.


That would give you a correction factor of at least 60%. You would be an instant hero at over 1000 HP. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Add the larger nitrous pill, some more methanol, and really drive the point home that you are the best Diesel tuner in the whole wide world and the dyno proved it for everyone to see.


Don~





Odd. Normally everyone goes to Texas (HRP) or Jersey (Atco) to be a "hero" with the huge negative DA weather. But Pikes Peak sounds good too!


Is there a dyno in Flagstaff? I get a nose bleed every time I drive through there. That might work!


So if I understand the Dodge Boys right, use no correction to reduce Colorado dyno numbers, and also use no correction to increase Houston dyno numbers. Cause EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas right?


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

I am entrusted to give a realistic power guarantee to everyone. If I was dyno testing in elevation during the development of injectors I would not last long once the guys began to dyno since the majority of us live lower down.


The combination of parts used to make the 780 HP would not produce the same power level if the customer ever left a high elevation area to dyno.


Yes, he won the event - I never contested that. I just said the numbers were skewed. Everyones numbers were inflated. Everyones.


Don~

I am entrusted to give a realistic power guarantee to everyone. If I was dyno testing in elevation during the development of injectors I would not last long once the guys began to dyno since the majority of us live lower down.


The combination of parts used to make the 780 HP would not produce the same power level if the customer ever left a high elevation area to dyno.


Yes, he won the event - I never contested that. I just said the numbers were skewed. Everyones numbers were inflated. Everyones.


Don~





Post an example of a truck (two would be nice) at the meet that dyno'd significantly lower at a different dyno. That will shut us up. ;)

I see your taking it personally Don.

Don,


What I don't think your getting here is, how much he beat you and your souped up dodge. inflated numbers or not he put a spankin on you and all your dodge friends. I can see that's hard for you to swallow but up here or down at sea level the whoopin will be just as sweet.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif I'll second that!!!








Rock Smiley Postwhore time!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


SD, Dynoing on the same rollers the same day the big guns are, it really doesn't matter..... Y'all spun the same rollers, "RUN WHATCHA BRUNG" and KICKED @SS and TOOK NAMES!


Gotta Give Props on the basis of that alone!


ROCK OUT WITH YOUR (0( |&lt; OUT!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

HP is HP no matter how you slice it or dice it. I may inject nails next time, you never know. By the way, next time I will turn on the water/meth to make it much worse. Bet no one will shut the dyno down early next time.

I was just thinking, you could dyno at Pikes Peak.


That would give you a correction factor of at least 60%. You would be an instant hero at over 1000 HP. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Add the larger nitrous pill, some more methanol, and really drive the point home that you are the best Diesel tuner in the whole wide world and the dyno proved it for everyone to see.


Don~





Odd. Normally everyone goes to Texas (HRP) or Jersey (Atco) to be a "hero" with the huge negative DA weather. But Pikes Peak sounds good too!


Is there a dyno in Flagstaff? I get a nose bleed every time I drive through there. That might work!


So if I understand the Dodge Boys right, use no correction to reduce Colorado dyno numbers, and also use no correction to increase Houston dyno numbers. Cause EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas right?


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





The Dynojet rarely adds anything for corrrection factor in Texas. Dallas and Houston included. I see values of 2 - 3 % max. Thats it. No matter if the temps are over 90 and the water vapor is thick enough to cut with a knife.


Going to the high elevation adds the super inflated, unjustified numbers for a force inducted engine and always has less water vapor.


No Diesel engine manufacturer lowers their power ratings on turbo engines used in applications like gensets or mining equipment. These are stock engines. Not modified, methanol and Nitrous injected engines.


There are portable Dynojets in use in the Diesel world now. The Pikes Peak thing sounds like fun and a good chance to let everyone see the real nature of elevation dyno numbers. Heck the stock trucks will be making 419 HP at the rear wheels. Nearly 100 HP more than manufacturer says they have at the crankshaft!!! What an ego booster that would behttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif We could all pound our chest, come on the internet and try as hard as we could to legitimize them and make it a big controversial mess no matter if we are right or wrong.


Don~

I am entrusted to give a realistic power guarantee to everyone. If I was dyno testing in elevation during the development of injectors I would not last long once the guys began to dyno since the majority of us live lower down.


The combination of parts used to make the 780 HP would not produce the same power level if the customer ever left a high elevation area to dyno.


Yes, he won the event - I never contested that. I just said the numbers were skewed. Everyones numbers were inflated. Everyones.


Don~





Don,


I rolled a 742 at 800' MSL with a smaller nitrous shot and no propane, no water meth. The giant correction factor issue you keep trying to pound on is a sham.


The correction factor for that run was 1.02 so I guess I really only made 728 HP that day, right?


I think SD's number would hold up just fine in the flatlands but what the hell do we know. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif

You tune on a dyno, and race on a track.


A dyno is good for comparsion of modifications, but is not the last word. Everyone has seen 1000HP Dyno Supras that don't back the numbers up at the track. And comparing the heavily modified Dodges to the "stock engine" Duramaxes showed some surprising results. Guess we will just have to see if the track backs it up. OPPSS!!! Tomac (and others) are already proving the stock engine Duramax is putting crazy HP to the ground!


There is NO dyno that truly predicts how hard an engine runs at the track. It's a number you use for tuning. But since the DynoJet has the largest number of units in use, it has become the de facto yardstick everyone measures with now. For now, it's the Gold Standard.


The dynojet said 781, and dynojet is the accepted standard. So... prepare to be assimilated Dodge Boys.

Alright lets drop the spin and subject changing. The point I made is that the numbers are inflated. I even said everyones numbers were inflated. Yes SD won the competition I did not contest that. Go back and read my first post.


The Dodge was not there to win or it would have. It made as much HP uncorrected as most of the trucks do with similar mods. The truck did not belong to me.


The point still is, the numbers are fat, inflated, bloated, undeserved. Pick your adjective. Dont shoot the messenger because you dont like the message.


Maybe Cummins should have a secret plan is to convince Chevy to start dyno testing at Pikes Peak. Chevy can boast the numbers their trucks make. "Over 400 HP at the rear wheels stock" "The new Mayor of Pikes Peak" "Why buy a Ford or Dodge with less"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif If the performance industry vendors and customers cant catch on to inflated claims, why would the general Joe public consumer? LMAO!


Lets get it started for next years charity dyno event. Imagine the turn out to see A DMax with the stock turbo make over 1000 HP! The donations would skyrocket. We will donate the cash to poor ol Cummins and Fordhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Don~

...


The Dodge was not there to win or it would have. ...


My clutch was slipping.


The sun was in my eyes.


There was water in my lane.


I didn't have my race fuel.


The tree went off too fast.





Feel free to use these other pearls! Sounds like you're going to need them!

Don,


Why don't you explain exactly what the purpose of showing up to a diesel dyno day is??? I mean if you knew the numbers would be so inflated and bogus why did you bother to show up??? I guess that since SD turned the same rollers as you it really doesn't count that he beat you because the numbers are all wrong right??? I suppose it would make you feel better if he gave you the trophy he so unjustly took away from you!!!


I think it's obvious that his truck is more powerful than yours, you know it, I know it, all your dodge friends know it. What are you trying to hold on too???? I just don't get it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif..........


So what should we do to make this whole thing right Don??? how can we show or estimate power to your liking??? I suppose we should all call the engineers of the dyno's and let them know they should sell any more dyno's to high elevation shops because they are worthless.


The only thing I think is bogus is what a sore loser you are http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif.

I am entrusted to give a realistic power guarantee to everyone. If I was dyno testing in elevation during the development of injectors I would not last long once the guys began to dyno since the majority of us live lower down.


The combination of parts used to make the 780 HP would not produce the same power level if the customer ever left a high elevation area to dyno.


Yes, he won the event - I never contested that. I just said the numbers were skewed. Everyones numbers were inflated. Everyones.


Don~





Don,


I rolled a 742 at 800' MSL with a smaller nitrous shot and no propane, no water meth. The giant correction factor issue you keep trying to pound on is a sham.


The correction factor for that run was 1.02 so I guess I really only made 728 HP that day, right?


I think SD's number would hold up just fine in the flatlands but what the hell do we know. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif








His numbers will plumet if he keeps the same mods and dynos at sea level. No doubt about it. No sham.

Don,


Why don't you explain exactly what the purpose of showing up to a diesel dyno day is??? I mean if you knew the numbers would be so inflated and bogus why did you bother to show up??? I guess that since SD turned the same rollers as you it really doesn't count that he beat you because the numbers are all wrong right??? I suppose it would make you feel better if he gave you the trophy he so unjustly took away from you!!!


I think it's obvious that his truck is more powerful than yours, you know it, I know it, all your dodge friends know it. What are you trying to hold on too???? I just don't get it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif..........


So what should we do to make this whole thing right Don??? how can we show or estimate power to your liking??? I suppose we should all call the engineers of the dyno's and let them know they should sell any more dyno's to high elevation shops because they are worthless.


The only thing I think is bogus is what a sore loser you are http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley21.gif.














You learn slower if you dont read the posts. Once again. I was not the owner of the truck. I was not there either.


Everyones numbers are inflated. That included the Dodge! Yes, his truck made more power than the Dodge. I never contested that.


Im sayig the numbers are ALL bogus.

...


Im sayig the numbers are ALL bogus.








Are these some of your other quotes?


THERE ARE NO AMERICAN TROOPS IN BAGHDAD!


WE WILL CRUSH ALL THE COALITION INFIDELS!


THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH AMERICAN BLOOD!


I wondered where the Iraqi Information Minister went.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Summary of my entire point is:



The correction factors are bogus. A large percentage of it anyway.


The trucks that were there that day got a boost of undeserved HP on the graph. This includes all the trucks. Yes the Cummins too!


If you take any of the trucks that dynoed there and test them with the same mods at 1000 feet or lower you will be disappointed if you truely believe the inflated ones you received in Colorado.


SD will dyno less than 680 at low elevation. Down from 781. The Dodge will dyno less than 600. Down from 691.


SD won!! I never said anything different. I never said he cheated, etc. Once again SD...you WON!!! Feel better now? LMAO!


Don~

Pikes Peak or Bust! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

mackin, the truck in that video had more than just nitrous on it

You tune on a dyno, and race on a track.


A dyno is good for comparsion of modifications, but is not the last word. Everyone has seen 1000HP Dyno Supras that don't back the numbers up at the track. And comparing the heavily modified Dodges to the "stock engine" Duramaxes showed some surprising results. Guess we will just have to see if the track backs it up. OPPSS!!! Tomac (and others) are already proving the stock engine Duramax is putting crazy HP to the ground!


There is NO dyno that truly predicts how hard an engine runs at the track. It's a number you use for tuning. But since the DynoJet has the largest number of units in use, it has become the de facto yardstick everyone measures with now. For now, it's the Gold Standard.


The dynojet said 781, and dynojet is the accepted standard. So... prepare to be assimilated Dodge Boys.





Piers dyno reads higher and IMO much more real world than anyones. Most guys compared their numbers from the Dynojet with a few others thrown in for fun.

Using a Dynojet VS the Dyno Dynamics at Piers is a different world.

The Dyno Dynamics has the ability to apply a much more real world load than the Dynojet

BTW, Lennys dyno is only 100 slugs. It is the heaviest out there from DynoJet, but its not 7000 lbs. 100 slugs is less than 4000 lbs.

I do not know the inertia weight on Piers, but they work super good for the Cummins Turbodiesel.

Don~


I would love it if everyone had the same dyno as PDR!

LOLhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/GotJuice/2004-09-29_104228_rs0168.jpg

IMO dyno's days are a fun event to get together and BS and play and can be a good tuning tool to see how mods you have done are helping/hurting but its defiantly not the test. We'll see some more real world testing coming about shortly and I have a feeling it will show were the GM's stand in the way of real world performance. Some tidbits have already started to come out but I have a feeling things going to get shaken up pretty good next year. I dont mind having to fill a bottle every couple passes, its the price of going fast. I gota fill up my tank, thats not very renewable.


Screw Pikes Peak see ya at the track.

Piers dyno does read high compared to the Dynojets, but it reads closer to what we believe the HP really is, giving us that missing pressure ratio we want and get on the street. This is very advantageous to the single charger trucks.


Unfortunantly, it is not the normal measuring instruments that the overwhelming majority of the trucks are dyno tested on.


Back to the battle:


If you guys would go back and just pick out my posts in this thread you will see I never denied the FACT that SD won. I never said the Dmax runs were unfair when compared to everyone elses. I DID say the runs were bloated for EVERYONE. I never "called out" SD as he posted. The Dodge was mentioned to show the numbers were high because I have over 20 trucks with the same mods making in the 585 to 600 HP in the lower elevations. This is in sharp contrast to what the Dodge actually got in Colorado at 691 HP. Its bogus!


Now we should arrange a Piers type portable dyno to go up to Pikes Peak for the event. The numbers would be awesome. All the correction factor junkies can get a massive high. A big ego injection to get through the rest of the month. All awile feeling good and godlike on their tuning prowess. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Dyno days have turned into a deficiency crutch or pecker checker contests for some. Imagine how big and mean you would be if you had a 1000 HP Dmax with a stock turbo. Just remember you cant dyno it anywhere other than high elevation, less you pull the blankets off or turn on the lights for her to see the reality.


Its all good. Pikes Peak or busthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif

You tune on a dyno, and race on a track.


A dyno is good for comparsion of modifications, but is not the last word. Everyone has seen 1000HP Dyno Supras that don't back the numbers up at the track. And comparing the heavily modified Dodges to the "stock engine" Duramaxes showed some surprising results. Guess we will just have to see if the track backs it up. OPPSS!!! Tomac (and others) are already proving the stock engine Duramax is putting crazy HP to the ground!


There is NO dyno that truly predicts how hard an engine runs at the track. It's a number you use for tuning. But since the DynoJet has the largest number of units in use, it has become the de facto yardstick everyone measures with now. For now, it's the Gold Standard.


The dynojet said 781, and dynojet is the accepted standard. So... prepare to be assimilated Dodge Boys.





Piers dyno reads higher and IMO much more real world than anyones. Most guys compared their numbers from the Dynojet with a few others thrown in for fun.

Using a Dynojet VS the Dyno Dynamics at Piers is a different world.

The Dyno Dynamics has the ability to apply a much more real world load than the Dynojet

BTW, Lennys dyno is only 100 slugs. It is the heaviest out there from DynoJet, but its not 7000 lbs. 100 slugs is less than 4000 lbs.

I do not know the inertia weight on Piers, but they work super good for the Cummins Turbodiesel.

Don~


I would love it if everyone had the same dyno as PDR!





Yes, the Dynojet system certainly has flaws to it. It does have some big advantages though:


Less operator dependent than other systems. A "Brand X" dyno had my truck and vette reading crazy numbers due to operator error. The dynojet numbers on both vehicles is pretty repeatable.


Fast setup. More pulls per hour is a good thing.


Cheap. Compared to the alternatives, it is a better value, and one of the reasons chassis dynos are becoming common.


Does it measure "real" track HP? No. It DOES measure actual HP applied to it's rollers though. It's simple math. But unless the roller weighs the same as the vehicle, it's not apples to apples.


One thing I do know, is that variable load dynos are showing the widest variation from installation to installation.

Juice:
ROLFTMFAO!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif


IBDMAX'IN:
I am glad the videos turned out...hopefully the eye candy did to...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif I'll shoot you a PM with contact info.
Bob

LOLhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/GotJuice/2004-09-29_104228_rs0168.jpg


BWHAHAHAHA!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif

You tune on a dyno, and race on a track.


A dyno is good for comparsion of modifications, but is not the last word. Everyone has seen 1000HP Dyno Supras that don't back the numbers up at the track. And comparing the heavily modified Dodges to the "stock engine" Duramaxes showed some surprising results. Guess we will just have to see if the track backs it up. OPPSS!!! Tomac (and others) are already proving the stock engine Duramax is putting crazy HP to the ground!


There is NO dyno that truly predicts how hard an engine runs at the track. It's a number you use for tuning. But since the DynoJet has the largest number of units in use, it has become the de facto yardstick everyone measures with now. For now, it's the Gold Standard.


The dynojet said 781, and dynojet is the accepted standard. So... prepare to be assimilated Dodge Boys.





Piers dyno reads higher and IMO much more real world than anyones. Most guys compared their numbers from the Dynojet with a few others thrown in for fun.

Using a Dynojet VS the Dyno Dynamics at Piers is a different world.

The Dyno Dynamics has the ability to apply a much more real world load than the Dynojet

BTW, Lennys dyno is only 100 slugs. It is the heaviest out there from DynoJet, but its not 7000 lbs. 100 slugs is less than 4000 lbs.

I do not know the inertia weight on Piers, but they work super good for the Cummins Turbodiesel.

Don~


I would love it if everyone had the same dyno as PDR!





Yes, the Dynojet system certainly has flaws to it. It does have some big advantages though:


Less operator dependent than other systems. A "Brand X" dyno had my truck and vette reading crazy numbers due to operator error. The dynojet numbers on both vehicles is pretty repeatable.


Fast setup. More pulls per hour is a good thing.


Cheap. Compared to the alternatives, it is a better value, and one of the reasons chassis dynos are becoming common.


Does it measure "real" track HP? No. It DOES measure actual HP applied to it's rollers though. It's simple math. But unless the roller weighs the same as the vehicle, it's not apples to apples.


One thing I do know, is that variable load dynos are showing the widest variation from installation to installation.











I AGREE!! The Dynojet is the most back to back accurate SOB I have ever used. I can dyno all over Texas and be extremely close from dyno to dyno. Even all over the country. Heck I was within 2% of what the Dodge in Colorado made that day when asked to guess. Its not a fluke. I can trust the dyno and have enough people out there dyno testing to get very close.


The measuring system is simple and foolproof.


Don~

After Pikes Peak lets go to sea level with that portable dyno and put this discussion to rest! That would make one hell of a weekend! Traveling diesel convoy of 100+ trucks from CO to TX, and a big portable dyno... I'd make it for the trip no matter what. Dyno weekend!!

Headline: "The new Mayor of Denialville just got re-elected"


Cummins powered bone stock truck at Pikes Peak produced 420 HP at the rear wheels in high elevation and low air density! It was pointed out that Cummins only rates the engines at 325 HP at the crankshaft, but the population was not intersted in anything that could be somehow construed/twisted as negative. The town of Denialville instantly held a meeting and named the Dodge the Mayor for eternity. "Several other Cummins powered trucks were tested at the same time and the numbers dont lie" said the Sheriff's deputy Elmer Fudd. The truck owner was witnessed as crying like a baby and calling his selling dealer to thank him personally for the incredibly powerful truck that gets 21 MPG and runs the 1/4 mile in 18 seconds. It was reported the EGT gage never exceeded the 1200 degree mark. The owner told the delaer he would be down that day to pay twice the retail value of the truck! Even though he was having trouble pulling his trailer through the mountains in stock form against mildly modified 1st generation clunkers that dynoed in the low 300 HP range in Dallas earlier that year.





Update: Mayor sues Dodge dealership. Says he was "hoodwinked"


The recently elected Mayor of Denialville was invited to attend a dyno event by the Mayor of Dallas. The invited Mayor had a great plan to come to Dallas and outpower even modified trucks with his recently dyno proven high elevation power. Unfortunantly, the Mayor did not measure up when the rollers were spun in Dallas. After his return to Denialville the citizens tried to have the dealer tarred and feathered at the Pikes Peak summit to show the rest of the local car dealers that this type of marketing will not be tolerated in their happy, one sided town.


After holding true to their founding name, the town was convinced the Diesel fuel sold in near by Oklahoma was not the same as the fuel in Colorado and the trucks were all hauled back up to Pikes Peak to test again. The numbers were again restored and the pending sentence to the dealer was pardoned.


Don~


Edited by: Don M

Pikes Peak or Busthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif





Even though my poor little single charger 12 valve will only make a silly and lowly 640 HP on Diesel fuel I am convinced that the extra cetane in the Colorado fuel can push me over the 1000 HP mark at 14,000 ft elevation. Add in some nitrous and the numbers could eclipse the 1300 mark. Everyone would come running to the door to buy the new technology I have. Lets get this thing going. I have a Mansion to contruct and a speed boat to buy. I predict that Gale Banks will be selling out for pennies on the dollar after the old 12 valve kicks the snot out of the Sidwinder at super high elevation where the air is thin and power would be next to impossible to produce with a turbocharged engine operating at 70 plus PSI of manifold pressure.


Correction factors nearing 60% will be quickly pronounced as being fair by the experts that began their dyno testing careers that day. "Cuz the air is thin up here Don" "You should get a clue Don"





Lets get it started! Baja speed boats, pretty girls with big correction factors and a house with a basketball court is in my future.

You might be better off dyno'g in an airconditioned room at 50 degs at neg DA if you want to inflate numbers. I'm sure there are some dynos in Texas set up that way. I've seen 340rwhp graphs from Texas on bone stock cars that put down 300rwhp in the rest of the country. Uncorrected of course. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif Of course the cars don't back it up with 4mph greater trap speed, but nobody really thought they would.


Maybe the "tuners" can come up with a better correction formula than what is currently in use. You MUST correct readings for parity, the question remains, "How Much?".

I hate listening to broken records. Don, who really cares what the corrected or uncorrected numbers are. I think the whole point we were trying to make here is SD kicked some serious dodge a**. And as you said, you never denied the claim that he won. So thanks for backing up our claim that you dodge guys got you butt kicked by a d-max running a few bolt on's and plug in's. END OF STORY!!!!


Like I said before........Got smoked by a dually d-max........must suck to be a dodge guy!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif.


Don,


maybe you should invest in a d-max. Then at least you wouldn't have to be a scared dodge owner running from the d-max furry!!! I hope you make it to the next dyno day Don. Then at least we can watch you get you butt handed to you in person. I'll make sure to video that one for americas funniest videos........Dodge owner throwing a fit like a little kid because someone had a cooler toy!!!! LMAO http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

The following trucks have the following mods:


Mach 6 injectors, Twin Turbos, and run on Diesel Only and dyno in low elevation on a Dynojet


Brandon 603 HP


Trevor 596 HP


John D 603 HP


Tim B 612 HP


Rip R 613 HP


Opie 617 HP


Merv D 636 HP ( Mach 6 ++ inj )


Fred H 585 HP


Meach 565 HP


Mike D 596 HP


Russell W 622 HP


In contrast the Dodge at the Colorado dyno day had Mach 5 injectors with the same mods.


He made 691 HP.


With smaller injectors he makes over 100 more than some guys with the same set up??? Does this square? See anything wrong with this picture?


Its obvious the numbers are bogus in high elevation!

Good point Don, I have seen Opie Dyno a few times myself and agree with you.


Don, on another note is there a better way to 'standardize a dyno?


IE on some dynos anything over 500RWHP either


1 Can't hook up


2 Can't build enough boost


3 Over 500 RWHP the numbers start to skew.


Has anyone else noticed this on Mustangs and Dynojet's?

I hate listening to broken records. Don, who really cares what the corrected or uncorrected numbers are. I think the whole point we were trying to make here is SD kicked some serious dodge a**. And as you said, you never denied the claim that he won. So thanks for backing up our claim that you dodge guys got you butt kicked by a d-max running a few bolt on's and plug in's. END OF STORY!!!!


Like I said before........Got smoked by a dually d-max........must suck to be a dodge guy!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif.


Don,


maybe you should invest in a d-max. Then at least you wouldn't have to be a scared dodge owner running from the d-max furry!!! I hope you make it to the next dyno day Don. Then at least we can watch you get you butt handed to you in person. I'll make sure to video that one for americas funniest videos........Dodge owner throwing a fit like a little kid because someone had a cooler toy!!!! LMAO http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif








I wonder how many times you had to read over the same material at school? GO back and read every post I made and see if I ever denied the SD runs. I denied the validity of them all. I did not single him out. I was first to say the runs from the Dodge were bogus too. Its just a fact.


Your messenger shooting again cuz you dont like the text. Get back on topic and prove the numbers ARE valid and the CF IS deserved.


Don~

Check it out boys.


Here's your chance to show it all.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15417&amp;P (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15417&amp;PN=1) N=1


Don I know you put up some good numbers last year. Hope to see you again this year.


Later,


Wes

I think that in the near future the chevy &amp; GMC dealers will become dodge lots because of all the trade in's.





Wishful thinking.



Most don't give a crap about dynoing a pickup truck. Most buyers want a
trouble free machine that does what they expect from it with minimum to
zero repair/downtime.



After reading this twice, all Don M has done is to say ALL the numbers at the same dyno/location are skewed.



Now the next thing will be.... how long will a Dmax hold up at 700+

You guys are dumping big bucks into these trucks. Pride that's
bought. It's great to plug boxes into trucks and claim victory.
That means anybody can do it. Where's the accomplishment? Not to take
anything away from Dmax power but you gotta remember the years of
effort and development it took to get the Cummins in those high numbers
only to be blown away by a plug in box. It's gotta hurt. The Cummins
has it's limitations power wise as does the 7.3 PSD.



It's fun seeing how each successive engine design reveals it's inner
secrets. The Dmax has an amazing capability right now that's tough to
beat.



Don't let winning or losing ruin the fun.



Edited by: hoot

Wes,


Last year I got a lame 620 HP. With a single turbo and Diesel only. Then comes this drugged up Dmax and kicked my butt with 627. I did not freak out or cry. I just pointed out the fact that he was drugged and I was not.


So, yes my pecker was shorter than his, but he used a plastic extender and mine was the real thing.


Now I want to play the plastic extender game myself. Drugs and Pikes Peak Man. 1300 plus HP with a single turbo. Life is good and I will be King. Yeah thats it!! "King of the Dyno"


That is until I dyno in Dallas and get a reality check or the plastic extender falls off. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


I think SD will be surprised if he ventures down here. What do ya say SD? Wanna measure it with a ruler instead of a yardstick in public? I will pay your dyno fee if you can get within 80 HP of the runs you made up top with the same mods.


Life is good. Vendication is too!


Don~

1300hp http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif



Never mind my previous post http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

Well I hope you can make it. We have a lot of talkin going on behind the scenes and I hope some of those people will come out and measure up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


As always everybody is invited Stock to Extreme Cummins, Duramax, or Powerstroke.

I think that in the near future the chevy &amp; GMC dealers will become dodge lots because of all the trade in's.





Wishful thinking.

Most don't give a crap about dynoing a pickup truck. Most buyers want a trouble free machine that does what they expect from it with minimum to zero repair/downtime.

After reading this twice, all Don M has done is to say ALL the numbers at the same dyno/location are skewed.

Now the next thing will be.... how long will a Dmax hold up at 700+
You guys are dumping big bucks into these trucks. Pride that's bought. It's great to plug boxes into trucks and claim victory. That means anybody can do it. Where's the accomplishment? Not to take anything away from Dmax power but you gotta remember the years of effort and development it took to get the Cummins in those high numbers only to be blown away by a plug in box. It's gotta hurt. The Cummins has it's limitations power wise as does the 7.3 PSD.

It's fun seeing how each successive engine design reveals it's inner secrets. The Dmax has an amazing capability right now that's tough to beat.

Don't let winning or losing ruin the fun.




But ALL dyno readings are skewed, there is no National Institute of Standards and Technology dyno room. I've seen some diesel pickups that on paper (going by the dyno sheet) could not run the ET's they do at the weight they are running. There is "hidden" HP somewhere in many cases. A good example would be my LLY. I added mild 65HP tune and reduced my ET over 2 seconds. That doesn't add up.


So is it that the 781 number is too high? Or is it that the other numbers are too low? There are trucks with very similiar builds that are running 11's at 7000lb. That pretty much jives with the HP numbers.


Looks like it takes 781rwhp to run a 11.6 at 112 with a 7000lb truck using one of the standard formulas. So maybe the HP is not as "skewed" in Colorado as one might believe.

Looks like it takes 781rwhp to run a 11.6 at 112 with
a 7000lb truck using one of the standard formulas. So maybe the
HP is not as "skewed" in Colorado as one might believe.





Don ???? How much over do you think 781 is? What does correction bring it down to?

Edited by: hoot

The factor was reported to be 22%. So 640 HP would be the norm down here. We have no correction factor most days. IN the colder months we go to negative numbers.


Some of that CF is valid on Diesel only and with single chargers, but when you use Nitrous Oxide...that goes away. IMO only of course.


I cant nail down any correction factors for turbo engines, but there is a post grad PE at Georgia U that has some data from the SAE I believe.


In most cases I see no way any of the CF numbers are deserved in the altitudes of 3000 feet and less to sea level. I asked on the FORD site what the HP was on most trucks with the same mods. They all came back within a few HP of each other once the CF was removed from the high altitude runs. Cummins and John Deere have much hard data on this and they say the engines really dont lose much at all in power levels all the way to 8000 feet. Something like 1.3% for John Deere at 6000 feet.


The nitrous really mucks up the CF. Its so oxygen rich at those levels there is certainly plenty of air to combust the fuel available in a Common Rail System.


Back to work now. SD, come on down and we will have the real answer as long as the mods remain the same.





Don~

I'm gonna stick my nieve head out here and speculate that there is
little correction factor once you go turbo. The turbo practically
negates any difference in atmospheric pressure.

I'm gonna stick my nieve head out here and speculate that there is little correction factor once you go turbo. The turbo practically negates any difference in atmospheric pressure.


Not true at the dragstrip. And that's where the "real" HP comes into play. It loses about 1/2 as much as a NA engine does. The NHRA agrees with this and in stock supercharged classes it reduces the correction by half.


But...


Since these trucks seem to trap higher than their dyno sheet would suggest, it is highly possible that Colorado is a more accurate place to dyno than Houston.

Ok, time for a bit of Levity here.


Don M is a standup guy with a great rep for honesty and great service.


I think this novel is interesting as it makes all of us take notes on some differences in all of our times/numbers etc.


But for the record, we shouldn't piss him off ....his injectors for the CTD have to bee seen and installed to believe the difference they can make... I have seen 12V and 24V trucks dyno in excess of 40-90 RWHP more and LESS SMOKE than their previous setup. (what can he do with a DMX?)


Just my .02

I think we are being a little harsh on Don. He never said SD didn't win, he only said that the numbers were wrong. I personally wouldn't have used the word "wrong" because what makes his numbers in Texas "right"? As has been stated, there is no real standard and CF really can't be relied on IMHO for a number of reasons.


I would suspect though that even if all the trucks that dynoed in CO were to go to TX and dyno with the same mods, the results would be the same in that SD would still be high hp. His number may be lower than 781hp, it would be interesting to see as that would certainly put this discussion to rest.


If Texas weren't a two day one way drive I'd be there for sure, but I can't make another long trip like that this year.

Even if we all loaded up and headed to Texas...SD would still win. His numbers are still the highest and that would not change. Everyone would just be lower.





Thanks Juice! You too Hoot!





Don~

No thanks necessary Don, i have seen the way you treat customers, next day air etc so you have earned your reputation.


Those EDM's you sent Rob Milosh were a nice piece of work! (I helped with the install) beautiful finish, nice to look at and the results.... mind numbing. Esp the new spray angle!


I would miss the smoke a bit though, but the power bump would be worth it.

Ok since everyone is still skeptical, how about this. What is the highest mph anyone has done in a Dmax, weight of the truck, and dynoed hp. My 02 Dodge has run a 12.03 @ 114.5mph on #2, weighs 6900lbs with me in it, and has dynoed 700.1hp corrected. Considering equal weights the higher the mph the higher the hp.

So a funny car that runs 9.0 @ 90 mph the motor produces 3000 Hp. This doesn't work for you comparison as the launch was great but we shook the tire so hard it broke the motor plate and the driver shut off to control the car. I know it's not what you asked for but the truth is your argument is not correct. MPH alone will not give you the desired results, as it assumes the truck(or car in this case) makes the same run as you did. Same 60' same 1/8 but picks up from there down the track.

How about this. Prove the Dyno is off, and the one at ATS, and the one at Preformance Diesel, and the one..........I don't dare say what mph I have run in my 8000lbs truck or there will be more cryinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif FOUL again. It is very obvious this is getting no where, and I have more importaint things to do that listen to people who are poor loosers and or can't see the potential of other veihicls past the sheep head on the hood. Sorry ONCE AGAIN I bent some feelers over. I have already been down the road with the built Dodge 12V, and I see the potential in the Dmax. I'll Keep on my path, and others can keep on theres. I won't be the one being left behind. NEW MAYOR IN TOWN!

SD... personally I congratulate you for the incredible numbers.

All that has be questioned here is when it comes down to a final "Who's got the highest hp period" arguement, how do you factor in results when dynoing in different humid/temp/altitudes?

If you were the one at the top you would be bring up the same questions, would you not?
Overall I don't see anybody crying foul. Just pointing out inconsistancies in the measuring process when it comes down to the wire.

The top dogs need to dyno at the same place to put it to rest.

Oh there are plenty of people cryin foul as always.

The correction factor on the page says; smoothing: 5 CF: SAE. I have no problem, and I know the Dmax isn't the top performer yet. To many kinks to work out still. However, for a totaly stock motor (like you said hoot) it is a wonderful builder if you just plug a few thing in. We will give it a few years to see what gets in the way of some bigger power and what we need to do to get around it. I suspect I will find out this winter in my garage on the other motor I'm building for the dragster. Intel is what we really need now to go much further.

In most cases I see no way any of the CF numbers are deserved in the altitudes of 3000 feet and less to sea level. I asked on the FORD site what the HP was on most trucks with the same mods. They all came back within a few HP of each other once the CF was removed from the high altitude runs. Cummins and John Deere have much hard data on this and they say the engines really dont lose much at all in power levels all the way to 8000 feet. Something like 1.3% for John Deere at 6000 feet.


The nitrous really mucks up the CF. Its so oxygen rich at those levels there is certainly plenty of air to combust the fuel available in a Common Rail System


Don~





Been just reading for a while. Guy's it depends on what the critical altitude for that particular engine is. If your below the critical altitude then you will make sea-level HP. This is not the case on the track. Why? possibly it's because it takes longer to spool the turbo up to the wastegate opening point, so your launches are soft, recovery after a shift takes longer etc. Forced induction engines make their own atmosphere. "somewhat true" If your wastegate is set for 32 lbs of boost and you have 32 lbs of boost, does it matter if you are at -1000 DA or + 10,000 DA ? Well a little it does, but the difference is not as dramatic as it is in a N/A engine. Add the bottle to the mix and you will skew the correction even farther. Just my opinion.

Don,


I think I better understand your point of view, sorry for trying to catch you on fire with all the flame in this post http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif.


The only reason I'm getting so fired up about all this is because everytime SD goes out there and does something incredible for the d-max, everyone and their brother has to start negating something about his claims.


At this point I'm not gonna even argue about what his numbers on the dyno may or maynot prove or be. I personally think that dyno days are for comparison from truck to truck that shows up. SD made a good comparison for the Duramax and the cummins. I personally think that once we tear into our motors as much as the cummins guys have, we will be even more blown away!!! We are only scratching the surface with what the duramax will do. The cummins has had 14 years of experience in the pickup world, and we have only had almost 4......where do you think we will be in ten years??? look how far we've come in such a short period of time.


Don't think for a second I don't think the cummins is a great motor because it is. They wouldn't run it in big rigs if it wasn't. But it's had it's time on the top and now it's time for the duramax to stretch it's legs. I think next year we will really see what the d-max is capable of. Clint will be releasing his new turbos hopefully, Don M might find it in his heart to make us some sweet injectors and SD will be pushing the motor limits along with quite a few others!!!


I think we should all just sit back and enjoy the show http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif

One thing to consider..

What is the real potential of the Dmax? It may not be any more and could be less than the Cummins.

Just because boxes increase power and the Dmax handles those increases, what's to say the Dmax is at the edge with those limits? At some point something is gonna go wether it be head gaskets or rods or whatever, they can only handle so much stress.

These engines are all physically made basically the same. So you can expect the physical limitations to be similar. They weren't designed to be 1000 hp engines. That's why the drag circuit uses custom built engines. They have been there and done that.

What's really cool is a truck with 4-500 hp that rips up Camaros, Vettes, Mustangs and pull up to your house with a truck.

Edited by: hoot

We really don't know what the duramax's potential is yet. That's what's getting exciting!!! The cummins has been played out quite far, I think over all with the way things have been going we will see the dmax surpass the cummins, look at the way this last year has been going, we have been making tons of advances towards the top of the food chain. The fords are sadly being left behind in the whole mix of things with their low rail pressure systems, but the duramax has time and time again been making strides to the top.


Here is and interesting senario: Take a bone stock d-max and a bone stock cummins. Start throwing bolt-on's and plug in's to it (not twins) untill one of them can't handle anymore and breaks something in the motor. Who do you think will win?? Who do you think will make more power???


If you wanna volunteer Hoot I know you would make a prime canidate!! Common me and you, we'll see how much these things can really handle, won't that put this all to rest once and for all??? I'm comfortable with my d-max, you wanna play with your cummins??


keep going untill someone breaks something!!! (Then try and get the dealer to warranty it!!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif)

One thing to consider..

What is the real potential of the Dmax? It may not be any more and could be less than the Cummins.

Just because boxes increase power and the Dmax handles those increases, what's to say the Dmax is at the edge with those limits? At some point something is gonna go wether it be head gaskets or rods or whatever, they can only handle so much stress.

These engines are all physically made basically the same. So you can expect the physical limitations to be similar. They weren't designed to be 1000 hp engines. That's why the drag circuit uses custom built engines. They have been there and done that.

What's really cool is a truck with 4-500 hp that rips up Camaros, Vettes, Mustangs and pull up to your house with a truck.




Apparently they found the limits of the Cummins a while back. I see ads for head studs, pistons, bottom end parts (main caps?), and other reliability components. Unless they were breaking, there would be no market.


What's the limit on the "internally stock" Cummins?

If you're comfortable, IBDMAX'IN, you have money to burn. Trans itself sets you back $5000 when complete. All I did to my Damx is lp and 90 Juice and the headgasket went. It limped the stock tranny on demand.
I'm curious if the Ford camp has anything going with the new PSD. It seems to always be at the top in the comparisons. How come it's not in the runnings?

McRat.... at what hp are they breaking? You see the size of the Cummins rotating assy? I will guarantee you the Dmax is not going to fair any better under similar stresses.

"Save the Pieces"Edited by: hoot

I'm curious if the Ford camp has anything going with the new PSD. It seems to always be at the top in the comparisons. How come it's not in the runnings?




I hear they run real good when they arnt behind a wreckerhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Ahhh just kidding.


Before your choices were a CTD(top of the food chain) or a 7.3(middle stock and alright to bomb) and its comp was the 6.5. No offense to the 6.5 guys but.....well its a 6.5, good motor stock but, yeah anyway......


6.0 dosnt have as much development time as the Duramax, most guys at first were trying to figure out how to keep em from scattering under stock power pulling outa the driveways not how to get power outa em. Ford seems to have most of the bugs worked out now?

...McRat.... at what hp are they breaking? You see the size of the Cummins rotating assy? I will guarantee you the Dmax is not going to fair any better under similar stresses.

"Save the Pieces"


I wasn't trying to trash the Cummins, I was just curious. I have no info on either the Cummins or the DMax as far as "suggested" limits are. And if you put a number on it, you ALWAYS get a response, "Heck, we ran 1,200HP on our stock bottom end Honda Civic!" even if common sense says 200HP.


An example would be: IMO, the stock cast shortblock SBC is good to 400HP. Sure you can run 1000HP through it, but it's very risky.


Would it be safe to say you should probably go into engine on a Cummins at 500HP? 600HP? 700HP?

I'm curious if the Ford camp has anything going with the new PSD. It seems to always be at the top in the comparisons. How come it's not in the runnings?




I hear they run real good when they arnt behind a wreckerhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Ahhh just kidding.


Before your choices were a CTD(top of the food chain) or a 7.3(middle stock and alright to bomb) and its comp was the 6.5. No offense to the 6.5 guys but.....well its a 6.5, good motor stock but, yeah anyway......


6.0 dosnt have as much development time as the Duramax, most guys at first were trying to figure out how to keep em from scattering under stock power pulling outa the driveways not how to get power outa em. Ford seems to have most of the bugs worked out now?





I could be wrong, but I thought Navistar had been making the 6.0 for quite awhile for commercial applications. I think it was about 250HP before they dialed it up for Ford. I believe it's older than the Duramax.

I know of a CTD 12 valve with a STOCK bottom end, over 400,000 miles at over 650 rwhp. Might be a bit tired, but still pulls and dynos respectably.


Jetpilot was 886 and i think he was only girdled in the bottom end

I know of a CTD 12 valve with a STOCK bottom end, over 400,000 miles at over 650 rwhp. Might be a bit tired, but still pulls and dynos respectably.


Jetpilot was 886 and i think he was only girdled in the bottom end





That's impressive, thanks!


I went to do a seach on the internet of the history of the Powerstroke 6.0 (VT 365) but it came up with Sodomy Laws of Vermont. I hope that was just a coincidence. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif

Ok since everyone is still skeptical, how about this. What is the highest mph anyone has done in a Dmax, weight of the truck, and dynoed hp. My 02 Dodge has run a 12.03 @ 114.5mph on #2, weighs 6900lbs with me in it, and has dynoed 700.1hp corrected. Considering equal weights the higher the mph the higher the hp.





I just went 13.35 at 101.5 MPH......


7050 lbs......


Stock Turbo, Injectors, 28 pound of boost.......


Figure out the HP/TQ with a formula.......


If yours adds up so does mine.........


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifNY


DRAG CALCULATOR (http://www.corral.net/tech/brakehp.html)Edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

this one works well.





http://www.torinocobra.com/horsepower.htmEdited by: Got Juice?

My fav site


http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFcompB.html

this one works well.


and backs up my numbers well


http://www.torinocobra.com/horsepower.htm





Well then...........my ET/MPH says I am making 576 HP.......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gifNY


Edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

The first calculator I used seemed a bit optimistic for my data on my truck.


Here's one that correlated to my slips at 3 different HP levels on my Duramax:


http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php


Use 20% drivetrain loss.

How much boost does a Dmax with 600+hp see on a dyno?

How much boost does a Dmax with 600+hp see on a dyno?








Depends on your set-up. Stock wastegate approx. 28 PSI. Manipulated wastegate bleed off from mild to wild. I have mine set at 32 PSI max but I'm a 500 HP Max.


Do at your own risk.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

How much boost does a Dmax with 600+hp see on a dyno?





You got my... i maxed out at 37PSIG POST CAC.... 550.5


600?,,,,, well, they better have similar pressure and appx 20% more air volume.

Ok since everyone is still skeptical, how about this. What is the highest mph anyone has done in a Dmax, weight of the truck, and dynoed hp. My 02 Dodge has run a 12.03 @ 114.5mph on #2, weighs 6900lbs with me in it, and has dynoed 700.1hp corrected. Considering equal weights the higher the mph the higher the hp.





I just went 13.35 at 101.5 MPH......


7050 lbs......


Stock Turbo, Injectors, 28 pound of boost.......


Figure out the HP/TQ with a formula.......


If yours adds up so does mine.........


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifNY


DRAG CALCULATOR (http://www.corral.net/tech/brakehp.html)








Tony,


Here again we run into a problem because all the hp calculators around are based on gas motors. They might be close to a diesel but no one that I know of has done a comparison. Regardless it says my truck has 826hp which is considerably higher than I have ever dynoed. Do I doubt that number is correct? No but with the most widely used dyno out there my truck wont even come close to that. Granted twin turbos and a dynojet dont give the true potential of the truck. As I said in another post I have run as fast or faster then trucks on NOS running 60-70+hp more than me


Nathan

Plug your numbers into the calculator on my last post. See what it says.

I registered but dont have a email yet to activate my account. You've got my info what does it say? Edited by: Idaho CTD

I registered but dont have a email yet to activate my account. You've got my info what does it say?


It says 703RWHP if you have 20% loss (automatic)

hoot, you make it sound like headgaskets are a problem on a lightly modded duramax which we all know isn't the case

hoot, you make it sound like headgaskets are a problem on a lightly modded duramax which we all know isn't the case





Hoot found that information along with the "melted heads" syndrome on the glove box sticker of his Dodge.


He apologizes but his acceptance into Dodge-ville is riding on this.





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifEdited by: Mackin

hoot, you make it sound like headgaskets are a problem on a lightly modded duramax which we all know isn't the case

Actually Mike I'm trying not to. But I also don't want to hide the fact that mine blew immediately after running lp and 90 Juice hard.. at the same time. I think I had a weak gasket that simply let go under the extra power.

You guys have certainly proven that the head gaskets are a non issue so far up to 600+ hp.

MAC,

What are you talking about "melting heads" syndrome? hehe I don't care about acceptance into anything. If I did I'd keep my mouth shut and lay low. Wished somebody got a picture of you guys in my Dodge http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif

Oh.. I didn't get many laughs last weekend at the ALL GM drags. There were Mustangs with GM power, Dodges with GM power. When I asked why they were allowing Isuzus to run I got sneered at http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Edited by: hoot

You will see it is closer to 700+ on the stock head gaskets Hoot. I have already done it on two different Dmaxs for verification of this. Diesels are a truly wonderful engine to have this day in age. With the advent of the Biodiesel era apon us the furture of pulling and drags with diesel powered verhicles is trully a bright one. The world of heavy load pulling and longevity with much cleaner emissions out of the diesel will never be the same nor will we have to look back. I look forward to the future of the modern super diesels (GM, Dodge,Ford, VW, and all the other great diesels we are graced with) with a great big smile and content. I did cut my teeth on building Dodge Cummins, Renult, and VW diesels.

McRat, I ment the aftermarket guys havent had as much time with the 6.0 in the Ford.


Sneered at for amking a comment about Isuzu powered trucks at a Chevy drag! Thats a gag!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif I think I'm going to have to make a road trip to the next import drag I findhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif Yes, I like pissing people offhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


So who's up for descending appon a "import" show like a bunch of smoking locust and harassing a few ricers?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gifEdited by: ratlover

I'm game!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

This has been an interesting thread. Some observations.


As far as calculators, I find SmokeMup.com as the best. I have used it in conjunction with my dyno for years and it seem to be the best I have seen.


Correction factors? This one will be debated until the end of time. Bottom line, I agree with Don. I have been able to dyno all over the east coast. The highest correction factor I have seen was 1.06 in the mountains of West Virginia. In most cases I see 1.0 to 1.03. To put this in the real world, I ran against a truck set-up exactly like mine, same chassis. His was 588hp as dyno'd in Colorado and mine 452 as dyno'd in Georgia. They both ran 13.6's at 98-99 on the same track, same day. My calculator says 454.6hp.


There is always a lot of talk on here about how you can get so much power out of the Dmax with stock parts, only programming. Most I see make between 450 - 480 hp with a few exceptions. I see the new CR cummins making mid 400's with one box. So they are close. Most of the Cummins HP over the years has been made with more air (turbo(s)) and more fuel. The more air (to keep temps in check while burning the fuel) increases the cylinder pressure and once you crest 50 psi boost pressure, it seems the head gasket is at risk. But with that said, Dennis Perry popped his first headgasket while making a 11.56 pass in Atlanta 2003. That was holding a lot of power on a stock head and gasket. I guess what I am saying is that many do mods to their trucks for reliability rather than necessity, and most Dmax's out there are not into a high boost scenario yet.


Like Don said, there are a few Cummins making some serious power. Some use twins and #2, others use single and drugs, and some use both. It's just a different approach to the HP goal. Someone that has pushed the envelope with a Cummins and NOS is Dennis Perry, and the times he runs shows you he is making huge power. My estimate for his truck is between 870 - 890 hp. That is with one turbo that is close in size to the factory Dmax turbo, no internal engine mods other than an o-ringed head.


Dyno Days are great fun. They are competition and SD won Period. Job well done. I still favor the dyno jet and I have tried to remain unbiased. It's just that so far, it seems the be most consistant and honest. I use mine to help Jeff tune trucks. If we don't get accurate data, then we lose. I frequently compare my dyno readings to the calculator to cross check. In most cases, it's pretty close. And I have said it before, a properly tuned set-up WILL show accurate numbers on a dynojet. One that heavily overfuels and "puts the flame out" and lags will not. This just tells me that truck needs tuning.


SD 7000 pounds and 112 mph I get 667.8. About what Don is claiming. You could weigh more than 7000 pounds, I don't know, just the numbers provided.


Do I think the Dmax is a competitor? I'm not stupid, or course it is. Will it become the new mayor of truckville? That has yet to be seen but I will say that in my opinion, the Cummins will take more power with stock internals. After that, it's fair game. I'm glad to see the other diesels making big power, and yes the Fords are too. We saw over 500hp with a 6.0 at the Atlanta race.


But I must say I am getting a bit tired of the stock turbo, stock injectors line. NOS changes a lot as far as those two components being able to make power. It will be a fun platform to see develop for sure. But as more boost is entered into the equation, you will see other areas fail.


And by the way, Jeff bought a 94 Dodge 2500 with 280,000+ miles on it. He added a set of factory Bosch 370 injectors, and a spring kit for RPM. He ran 12.96 @ 104 mph. That has to be one of the quickest trucks per

Sorry David, but my truck is 8069 with me in it with 20gal of fuel (it was full that day) . Better recalculate. No boost launch (it was from a dead idle), blew the head gasket just barely past the 1/8, coasted through the traps at that speed. Care to try it to see what you get? Brandon is running less N2O (.090 to my.125), no pane (bigger injects). I don't know what all programs he was running but I am running the TTS extreme. The most constaint performer out there in the world of huge #s for the Dmax. Rest assured there will more out there doing the same thing real soon, don't you worry. I am just trying to improve the breed. If we don't we become complacent and bad things happen. The Cummins is great but all good things come to an end, and it is time for improvement, so the Dmax will push it that way. Did you think it would stay noncontested forever? The CR Cummins will do great things as well. There is a very bright future for diesels, we just need to make them improve all the time. Edited by: Super Diesel

If correction factor is so far off hear, why did I dyno sightly lower with the TTS Extreme up here compaired to others down lower, 472hp(on just #2)? Why does my truck have a base Hp here of 216 (highest I've seen is 218). Did I really get a 270Hp motor instead? Then I dyno 244Hp at 264ft elevation.

SD - it comes to 769.8hp. You seem to think this dissapoints me somehow? Why would I be worried about more Dmax's coming?


As far as dyno run comparison's go, I've just seen way to many variables that affect dyno readings to go there. All I will say is that I don't think 20% correction is valid on a turbo diesel running NOS.


The Dmax will do well on the dragstrip. I've never changed my position on that since before it hit the streets. But it still remains to be seen if it can reliably hold 800hp in a racing environment. If it can't, then we'll need to see what has to be improved so it can and so on. Same development the Cummins has been, and still is going through. Then it will be "he with the best aftermarket parts wins".

Funny thing is, I build some of the aftermarket parts (wait till I get into the Dmax dragster motor). Matter of fact I will start to build more aftermarket stuff for the Dodge and the Ford that has never been availible to them before that will be nice components to have. Like I said, we need to build them better and harder so we force improvements. You know, improve the breed for us in the future. HP is HP no matter what is driving it and how hard. That is the inevitable end we all look for, and we as Americans and Canadians gobble it up. It's good to be alive and enjoy the things we are graced with this day in age.

If correction factor is so far off hear, why did I dyno sightly lower with the TTS Extreme up here compaired to others down lower, 472hp(on just #2)? Why does my truck have a base Hp here of 216 (highest I've seen is 218). Did I really get a 270Hp motor instead? Then I dyno 244Hp at 264ft elevation.





I would bet the reason is because your truck, like the CR Dodges, is boost dependant for fueling. Higher elevations = less boost thus less fuel and lower hp (it's harder to compress less dense air). Your fueling boxes take a lot of the boost dependancy away so you get huge gains with just the box. The less dense air is probably the reason you did less with your box on #2. NOS is a whole different critter though. It can make up for a lot of the lack of air density if not all of it.

The truck pulls 25psi on the gage (techII says 32) what ever it is set at (TTS 80,120, or THE BIG ONE). WOW, these truck are getting fun arn't they? Look back in the 70s and early 80s. What huge strides.

You can get a lot of tips on building a diesel dragster here. This is the one we saw run in Muncie. He's now in the 8's 1/4 mile



Diesel Dragster (http://www.cumminsracing.com/)

Yes, I know him (Scott Bentz). He lives only about 20 miles from me. Thanks Hoot. Edited by: Super Diesel

After reading all 7 pages, here are a few of my thoughts. A few are repetitious but never the less.


HYDROLOCKING, occurs whenever you place noncompressible material in a given space that is smaller than the amount of material introduced. So regardless of the strength of engine parts used, you will still break if you go to far. Water and unburned fuel have historically been the two largest culprits of hydrolocking. I am curious to learn if LP gas returns to a non compressible liquid if put under too much pressure? N20 is never a culprit, because it only compresses more and more. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


From a simplified physics point of veiw, hydrolocking is the same as inserting a large solid steel block into the combustion chamber/cylinder.


CORRECTION FACTOR, is always going to be an issue. Recently the NHRA has started posting the density altitude along with other statistics. This really helps me as a fan enjoy and understand the sport. Regardless of location, weather conditions,ect ect, I as a untrained spectator have a method of comparison. The density altitude allows me to make my own mental comparison. Sometimes the DA is 6700 feet other times it is 357 feet. I then make my own mind up as to the performance I expect to see. The lower DA is always going to be to the racers advantage. Regardless of induction type or drugs used. Naturally aspirated engines will always be more suseptable. The prostock categorie gets hit the hardest. They use carburators and gasolene. To adjust, they must change a mechanical part such as a camshaft, cylinder head or piston, all in an attempt to duplicate similar clylinder pressures. No quick blower pulley change,N20 jet change, nitro ratio change for these guys. So to bring this back around to something relevent, when you dyno, make sure the dyno has been calibrated ( not corrected) then tell me the uncorrected numbers and give me the DA ( density altitude) at the exact time of the run. I will make up my own mind as to how good you are running. DA uses altitude, temperature, barometer and other factors to create one comparable factor.


DYNODAYS, are becoming ever more popular and actually a form of racing in themselves. On any given day you can be the winner. If somebody did not show up to the event, then obviosly they could not win the event. No different then the NHRA Mile High Nationals. Regardless of what you accomplished in Pamona the weekend before, if you did not show up at Bandimeres then you could not win the event. So to bring this around to something relavent, Last Saturday in FT.Collins Super Diesel with his Duramax was the true winner. He produced the higest numbers, corrected and uncorrected. Congratulations SD, it feels good to be a winner even it it is only one event and one moment in time. These days are never forgotten! A method of National comparison is becoming ever more neccasary.


DIESEL DRAG RACING, is very interesting to me. It seems that Brandon has the 2wheeldrive Duramax categorie all to himself. In the relm of 4 wheel drive duramaxes, the verdict is still out. I would really like to see someone use a currents set up ( TTS or Equivalent) boat loads of N20, a built tranny ( ATS or Suncoast level 5) Lowered Tbars and 4 slicks of the appropriate diamater and width. The naysayers will downplay the importance and availibillaty of slicks , but putting the power to the ground is crucial. Race cars with equivalent power to weight ratios are faster than us, because they are getting superior traction.


SDDIESEL DRAGSTER, is the future of ultrafast diesel dragsters. Formulas tell me that with the current amount of HP and TQ being produced, a 2300 LBS vehicle will easily be in the 7 second range. Let me repeat, no extra power needs to be generated and no ultra expensive parts needs to be incorporated. The best bang for the buck will be spent on the chasis . If you could install SD's motor and tranny in a 2300 LBS rail it would

Formulas tell me that with the current amount of HP and TQ being produced, a 2300 LBS vehicle will easily be in the 7 second range. Let me repeat, no extra power needs to be generated and no ultra expensive parts needs to be incorporated. The best bang for the buck will be spent on the chasis . If you could install SD's motor and tranny in a 2300 LBS rail it would run 7second 1/4 mile times. Just as would Brandons ect. ect. I am very dissapointed in the cummins dragster and the Edge truck. I am suprised they are only in the 9.0s. They are obviously either not making the power or they are not putting it to the ground.





With all due respect, this kind of comment drives me crazy.


Just how fast will that 7 second pass be? We'll forget it will take more HP than any Duramax has currently displayed but what about speed? How many RPM will that require and will the motor be able to spin that fast?


Going fast is much more than peak power. I'm sure you know that and I apologize if I offended anyone. But it drives me crazy when those can't see the accomplishments made of others. IF it was so easy, I think we would have seen it done way before now.


And these comments are not related to ANY specific diesel brand, just diesel racing. 70/30 weight distribution, slow burning fuel, narrow rpm bands and such create huge hurdles. Add to that NHRA will not allow NOS and the hurdle just gets bigger.

[QUOTE=Bronco]

After reading all 7 pages, here are a few of my thoughts. A few are repetitious but never the less.


HYDROLOCKING, occurs whenever you place noncompressible material in a given space that is smaller than the amount of material introduced.*So regardless of the strength of engine parts used, you will still break* if you go to far. Water and unburned fuel have historically been the two largest culprits of hydrolocking. I am curious to learn if LP gas*returns to a non compressible liquid if put under too much pressure? N20 is never a culprit, because it only compresses more and more. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif


From a simplified physics point of veiw, hydrolocking is the same as inserting a large solid steel block into the combustion chamber/cylinder.


CORRECTION FACTOR, is always going to be an issue. Recently the NHRA has started posting the density altitude along with other statistics. This really helps me as a fan enjoy and understand the sport. Regardless of location, weather conditions,ect ect, I as a untrained spectator have a method of comparison. The density altitude allows me to make my own mental comparison. Sometimes the DA is 6700 feet other times it is 357 feet. I then make my own mind up as to the performance I expect to see. The lower DA is always going to be to the racers advantage. Regardless of induction type or drugs used. Naturally aspirated engines will always be more suseptable. The prostock categorie gets hit the hardest. They use carburators and gasolene. To adjust, they must change a mechanical part such as a camshaft, cylinder head or piston, all in an attempt to duplicate similar clylinder pressures. No quick blower pulley change,N20 jet change, nitro ratio change*for these guys. So to bring this back around to something relevent, when you dyno, make sure the dyno has been calibrated ( not corrected) then tell me the uncorrected numbers* and give me the DA ( density altitude) at the exact time of the run. I will make up my own mind as to how good you are running. DA uses altitude, temperature, barometer and other factors to create one comparable factor.


DYNODAYS, are becoming ever more popular and actually a*form of racing*in themselves. On any given day you can be the winner. If somebody did not show up to the event, then obviosly they could not win the event. No different then the NHRA Mile High Nationals. Regardless of what you accomplished in Pamona the weekend before, if you did not show up at Bandimeres then you could not win the event. So to bring this around to something relavent, Last Saturday in FT.Collins Super Diesel with his Duramax was the true winner. He produced the higest numbers, corrected and uncorrected. Congratulations SD, it feels good to be a winner even it it is only one event and one moment in time. These days are never forgotten! A method of National comparison is becoming ever more neccasary.


DIESEL DRAG RACING, is very interesting to me. It seems that Brandon has the 2wheeldrive Duramax categorie all to himself. In the relm of 4 wheel drive duramaxes, the verdict is still out. I would really like to see someone use a currents set up ( TTS or Equivalent) boat loads of N20, a built tranny ( ATS or Suncoast* level 5)* Lowered Tbars and 4 slicks of the appropriate diamater and width. The naysayers will downplay the importance and availibillaty*of slicks , but putting the power to the ground is crucial. Race cars with equivalent power to weight ratios are faster than us, because they are*getting superior traction.


SDDIESEL DRAGSTER, is the future of ultrafast diesel dragsters. Formulas tell me that with the current amount of HP and TQ being produced, a 2300 LBS vehicle will easily be in the 7 second range. Let me repeat, no extra power needs to be generated and no ultra expensive parts needs to be incorporated. The best bang for the buck will be spent on the chasis . If you could install SD's motor and tranny in a 2300 LBS rail it would run 7sec

Formulas tell me that with the current amount of HP and TQ being produced, a 2300 LBS vehicle will easily be in the 7 second range. Let me repeat, no extra power needs to be generated and no ultra expensive parts needs to be incorporated. The best bang for the buck will be spent on the chasis . If you could install SD's motor and tranny in a 2300 LBS rail it would run 7second 1/4 mile times. Just as would Brandons ect. ect. I am very dissapointed in the cummins dragster and the Edge truck. I am suprised they are only in the 9.0s. They are obviously either not making the power or they are not putting it to the ground.





With all due respect, this kind of comment drives me crazy.


Just how fast will that 7 second pass be? We'll forget it will take more HP than any Duramax has currently displayed but what about speed? How many RPM will that require and will the motor be able to spin that fast?


Going fast is much more than peak power. I'm sure you know that and I apologize if I offended anyone. But it drives me crazy when those can't see the accomplishments made of others. IF it was so easy, I think we would have seen it done way before now.


And these comments are not related to ANY specific diesel brand, just diesel racing. 70/30 weight distribution, slow burning fuel, narrow rpm bands and such create huge hurdles. Add to that NHRA will not allow NOS and the hurdle just gets bigger.








7.99 is still a 7 second pass. It will be roughly 170 MPH and will take a 2.4 gear in the rear end at 4200 RPM's. That is why I am so gung ho over a transmission with as many gear selections as possible.


The current power levels being produced by the Dmax are capable of propelling a 2300 LB dragster to the 7 second range.


As far as N20 being legal or not, you know better than I do. I was under the assumption that there was a class that allowed the use of N20. Without the N20 the Dmax is at a huge disadvantage. No camshafts, no cylinder head work, no twin turbos. Yes I agree that without N20 the Dmax is currently screwed. There is always the opputunity to run in an exibition class. You would still hold the record never the less.


I do understand others accomplishments, that is why I congratulated SD for his victory at the Ft.Collins dynoday. No strings attached.


My remarks about being dissapointed with the current diesel dragsters still stands. I always here all of these big numbers on the dynos but I never see any stellar E.T's at the track. There are other vehicles that dyno lower numbers but go faster. So my comment stands, either they are not really making the power or they are not getting it to the ground?


I would bet that it is both. Diesels have an extrmely narrow power band and a extremly low peak RPM. This makes it hard not to create a drivetrain bind or limitation. Try 5 or 6 transmissin gears with a stupindous rear gear like a 2.30 and then talk to me about top speed and E.T.


As far as not making power, this has to be a problem as well. The lighter you make your vehicle the less power a turbo diesel will make. So to dyno tune a motor, you would have to set the rollers for a 2300 LB vehicle with minimal drag coeficient and minum drivetrain losses. This would most likely mimic real life. It will require a completly different camshaft,turbo and maps to build serious TQ in such a light vehicle with a turbodiesel.


I feel silly telling you all of this, you are the more experienced.


Congratulations on your currrent accomplishments and endeavors. Any diesel that goes even marginally fast is an accomplishment in itself. Nothing like racing a choochoo train.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

Bronco - First, it's not me that has made the accomplishments. I just have a good freind that has made many and between the tuning we do on my dyno and so on, I get to see a lot of milestones reached. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif I guess my only accomplishment was to run 13.6's in my truck back in 2002, which was pretty quick... then. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif But I don't have the money to keep up with the 10-11 second crowd.


But my point was that to make a 7 second pass will require more than simply putting SD's or Brandon's motors in a chassis. No one has made a 7 second pass yet with a diesel and my guess is it will take some work. I think it can and will happen though. I get around 770hp to make 170. But again, whether you gear the rear end or the tranny for top end speed, you will take away from down low. That will hurt ET if traction was not a problem. Do I think it will happen, yes and it will be fun to watch. Do I think a Dmax will do it. Yep.


NHRA does not allow NOS in their classes, or at minimum the bigger ones. Not sure about the lower ones. Greg Hogue ran his Dakota recently at a NHRA event and could not run NOS. He took the bottle off and turned the fuel up. Managed a 8.72 @ 154. This truck does very low 1 second sixty's. But as most find out, the key is being able to leave on a Pro tree. What ever you build cannot take 30 seconds to spool at the lights.


This is going to be fun. I just want people to understand it's not easy for any of the guys going fast. As you said, you gotta put the power down to the track.

Ever one might be alittle suprised when this is finished, oops, did i say FINISHED. Do they ever get finished? The common rail and the way this thing is being set up will set some new standards in the way people look at how a diesel can be set up. It will be very unconventional in the way they work today. The first set up will be close to stock so we can tune the chassis to the motor and the driver. Then when thats done......what was thought about diesels will change. Slow burning? Yes. But very powerful fuel. Much more power per gallon than gasoline. The dragster will use only the first 3 gears when it's getting tuned in. When the higher power arrives (which I'm working on now).........I'll let the minds wonder. The future for the diesel is a bright one.

I was running basicly a stock 402 BBC w/ glide in my 1700# altered and was over geared but still ran 9.50 @120mph.


Lite cars make things fun but short wheelbase is much more fun.


I think the cummins dragster, which is running a glide, needs more speeds.


Wonder what a 4500rpm launch w/ a dmax/5spd lenco and slide your foot of the clutch would be like http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif

anyone have any idea if the Scheid truck has dynoed? i would imagine it would make some pretty nasty numbers also

I'm sure it has but probably a secret so others are in dark.

Like Mike Tomac, put the #s on the tracks where it matters.