Hi there I'm shopping for new (used) truck and I think I've decided on a GMC or Chevy 2500 Diesel. I ran across an ad yesterday that said: "this truck was built in late 2004, it's got the good engine". I take this to mean that the it must have the 2nd generation and not the second generation. Am I right and could someone impart some general and GMC Diesel wisdom upon me. I am new to the world of automotive class diesels.
Thanks in a advance.

Hi there I'm shopping for new (used) truck and I think I've decided on a GMC or Chevy 2500 Diesel. I ran across an ad yesterday that said: "this truck was built in late 2004, it's got the good engine". I take this to mean that the it must have the 3rd generation and not the second generation. Am I right and could someone impart some general and GMC Diesel wisdom upon me. I am new to the world of automotive class diesels.
Thanks in a advance.

Mine is a 2005 and I got that "Good Engine" option too....:D :D

Check the VIN numer, if the 8th digit is a 1 then its an LB7.(first generation)
If its a 2 then its an LLY,(second generation) both of them are "good" engines, but if I had my choice,I would have an LB7.:o:

Hi thanks for the reply. So you are saying that the 1rst gen is better than 2nd gen. Is it also better than 3rd and 4th? I've been leaning towards the 05 and 06's because of warranty but if the older duramax engines are better than the newer ones maybe I should be more concerned about saving 10 or 15k.

Well I geuss a lot would depend on what you plan doing with it, but the first gens had and still have injector problems, but GM put a 200K warranty on the 01s 02s and 03s. But not the 04 LB7. Some of the LLYs were overheaters, mine isnt and I dont think around here it was as much of a problem as it was in arizona or new mexico for obvious reasons. Now some of the "hotrodded LBZ's are cracking pistons.:o: So are you going to leave it stock, mod a little, or go all out on power?

I forgot to put the 200k mile warranty on the01-03's is only on the injectors.

Late '04 will be an LLY engine.

Shiny,

I do not think this is one of those questions where you can say one is "better" than the other in all cases. All the generations are basically the same design, and all are good engines. Which one is best for you is based on your goals and priorities. There are trade-offs in the changes between the generations. (IE: The LLY has better injectors, but the fuel mileage dropped due to emissions, etc.) Many of the changes came about due to regulation changes, not the need for improvement.

The LLY seems the best choice for what I am after, but that may not be the case for you. Here is my take on it from another post.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1701895&postcount=13

The thoughts in the above post are not all-inclusive. I am sure others can add to it.

Ya I'll be leaving it stock and the primary reason for going with a diesel and a 3/4 ton is for towing. We plan to buy a travel trailer or fifth wheel and some of it's towing (probably most) will be done in British Columbia. Summer temps of 40+ degrees C. and long grades. (steep as 10 -12% is not uncommon).
Winter life will be in northern alberta. -40 deg temp are not uncommon and can get as cold as -50 at times. Most trucks sold here will have a block heater plus glow plugs but of course compression is a major factor for cold starting a diesel.

No No that's all wrong the GMCs got the good engine.:D

Pull the 5er in my sig. with an LLY engine mostly in the mtns of Colorado. You are gonna love the way the duramax pulls, and the Allison grade braking feature will delight you all the way down the other side.

Ya I'll be leaving it stock and the primary reason for going with a diesel and a 3/4 ton is for towing. We plan to buy a travel trailer or fifth wheel and some of it's towing (probably most) will be done in British Columbia. Summer temps of 40+ degrees C. and long grades. (steep as 10 -12% is not uncommon).
Winter life will be in northern alberta. -40 deg temp are not uncommon and can get as cold as -50 at times. Most trucks sold here will have a block heater plus glow plugs but of course compression is a major factor for cold starting a diesel.

All the trucks come with block heaters. At least that is what I was told. Any way my 05 starts with out even being pluged in at 0 degrees. That would be the begining of pluging it in for me!!! Next would be 5W-40 as soon as it started being 10 degrees out!!!. Now you should be good to at least-30 derees out. After that you need to get smart on how to keep your fuel from geling. Talk to some diesel owners to get edgecated before you purchase!!! I love my '05' GMC heavy 3/4 ton 4x4. Also make sure that your truck comes with a grill cover for those very cold days they are worth there weight in gold.

Ya you betcha on the winter cover! It's got one! That's right, I bought. Not the one I was leaning toward but I got an 06 with an LLY. The only option it doesn't have is leather. She's got 48k on her but I had a look at the service and repair history and none of the "common" probs with steering clunk, injector harnesses or low end surge were there. Hopefully she's a good strong girl. Dark blue and a crew cab. The only thing that has been repaired on her was a fog light and a glow plug module reprogram.
On the fuel gelling issue, do you use the same type of fuel conditioner that we use in the big diesels?

Congratulations on the new truck, it sounds like a winner. Don't forget to update your signature so we all know what you are driving.

You probably already know that the 2006 LLY engine is not the same as the 2004.5/2005 LLY engine. The 2006 LLY is really a LBZ, just a little less horse power and torque. So, when looking at mods and comparing to other posts, go with the LBZ information. I've read that your truck and the LBZ use the Bosch computer and the LLY uses a Delphi.

I've been happy with Stanadyne fuel additive. The coldest I've had the truck was -2 F, and it started right up. That's probably warm for you. There are a lot of posts on Stanadyne and other additves. Try doing a search on the additive name and "cold" or "gel". I don't get much exposure to cold in my part of the county so I am not of much help.

Enjoy the truck!

Thanks BH and thanks to everyone who helped with the crash course on light diesels. This is a really good forum you guys have got here.
So what I'm hoping you're saying about my LLY then is that it is a late LLY - modified to correct the overheating problems - but prior to the rebuild to the LBZ where they increased HP and torque. Is that correct?
PS. Truck will be delivered today after they finish the spray-in box liner. :cool:
I haven't told my daughter yet. I want to go pick her up from work in it tonight. :D

the 06 lly is the exact same engine as the 06 lbz. just differant programming. and yes no o/h problems with the lbz. just remember that all your parts and info have to be for the lbz, because most would associate the lly with the original lly. they even have the same vin engine code (2). great engine though. good luck with the truck and happy motoring.

.....So what I'm hoping you're saying about my LLY then is that it is a late LLY - modified to correct the overheating problems - but prior to the rebuild to the LBZ where they increased HP and torque. Is that correct?....

Actually, your LLY is an "early" LBZ!

My understanding is that the only significant difference between your 2006 LLYand the LBZ is the ECM software. As I recall, there was some discussion on this forum about reflashing a 2006 LLY with the LBZ calibrations, but I can not remember how that ended up. If you eventually add engine mods (tuner/programmer) then it really doesn't matter. I also recall reading that the dyno results of the 2006 LLY are much closer to the LBZ than to the original LLY.

GM started the 2006 model year production in July, 2005 with the new version "LLY" (really a LBZ). I think it was around the end of September or early October, 2005 when GM changed the vin number ID from 2 to D, and started installing the 360 HP "LBZ". One person reported that GM had to initially delay the power increase because they had not completed all the durability testing in time for the begining of the 2006 production run. GM should not have called your engine an LLY. It can only cause confusion when getting parts.

Here is a piece of trivia. Model year 2006 trucks with the newer version LLY (yours) have the original red Duramax badging on the side. Model year 2006 (and 2007 Classic) trucks with the LBZ engine have the redesigned red and blue Duramax/Allison badging on the side.

Actually, your LLY is an "early" LBZ!

My understanding is that the only significant difference between your 2006 LLYand the LBZ is the ECM software. As I recall, there was some discussion on this forum about reflashing a 2006 LLY with the LBZ calibrations, but I can not remember how that ended up. If you eventually add engine mods (tuner/programmer) then it really doesn't matter. I also recall reading that the dyno results of the 2006 LLY are much closer to the LBZ than to the original LLY.

GM started the 2006 model year production in July, 2005 with the new version "LLY" (really a LBZ). I think it was around the end of September or early October, 2005 when GM changed the vin number ID from 2 to D, and started installing the 360 HP "LBZ". One person reported that GM had to initially delay the power increase because they had not completed all the durability testing in time for the begining of the 2006 production run. GM should not have called your engine an LLY. It can only cause confusion when getting parts.

Here is a piece of trivia. Model year 2006 trucks with the newer version LLY (yours) have the original red Duramax badging on the side. Model year 2006 (and 2007 Classic) trucks with the LBZ engine have the redesigned red and blue Duramax/Allison badging on the side.

What you're saying is making sense except that I read that when they redesigned the LLY to an LBZ, they had to beef up the block and con rods to take the extra HP. So if what you're saying about the '06 LLY (actually an LBZ) is true then I must have the beefed up block and con rods too, no? Regardless of the answer, I'm thinking that we're off topic for this thread, seeing that we're in the "second generation" thread. ;)

I think we are on topic, but it may not be the right forum now that you know what engine you have. At this point, one of the moderators will have to move it.

These posts may help answer your question about the beefed up block and rods.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=879510&postcount=44

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=893270&postcount=60

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=894105&postcount=67

What I would like to know is if anyone has successfully flashed the 2006 LLY with the 2006 LBZ ECM code to effectively make it a LBZ.

shiny, post the vin and i'll look it up.

Cool :cool: The VIN is 1GTHK23216F103309. Thanks!
Well, I didn't get to go pick up my daughter in it last night. :( Work got in the way. Had to go move a track hoe. Oh well, I got to drive to work anyway. :D I told the wife - when we were discussing whether or not I should buy it - that it didn't feel right on the test drive. It just felt like it was too good for me.
Now my task for today is to read the manual so I can figure out how to use everything it has. :D

Oh ya, one other question that I have so far not found the answer for, does the LBZ - and especially my LLY(LBZ)have internal or external injectors?

external

only LB7s have internal injectors

:cool: That's what I wanted to hear. You know I was astonished at how little these used car salesmen know about the vehicles they're selling and vehicles in general.
I blew most of them away talking about LB7's, LLY's and LBZ's. :D

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sorry for the cluttered mess that came up, i don't know why it did it. in the reply section it had copied exactly like it was written.

Allright, thanks Joe, BH and Bigshrimpah! You guys have all helped to make me feel secure with my new acquisition. Well, driving it helps too :D
I almost settled on a different truck because it had an LBZ. It had a little less miles, way fewer goodies and a few minor dings and scratches. The price was a little less also but the salesman just would not budge. Really all I was doing was looking at other comparable trucks to show him that his was too high. Then I found this one and the other one is history.
I couldn't take her home the day I bought her, so after leaving the dealership, we stopped off at the other dealership and took one final look at the other one (just to prove to myself that I made the right decision). It worked, it's over with her and I married the right one... :D

Thanks again guys... :cool:

If yourlaning to buy a travel trailer do yourself a favor and get the 5th wheel
I had a travel trailer and got a 5th wheel they pull better and not much trouble with the wind we love ours will not go back to travel trailer I have 2005 lly great truck I have to but it in cruse or I will be doing 80good luck

I am not sure if they said this or not, but you lly is basically the lbz. The only difference is the programming. Enjoy you truck. I think you made the right choice. If you are towing with this truck a programmer might be a good thing to have. You do not have to race with it. It would be nice to have gauges & pick up a 1-2 mpg.

Two thing will make the take the LLY from a good engine to a great one. 1 a V2, 2- a good programmer. You'll love your truck

By "V2", I assume you are talking about the lower radiator addition being sold by TxChistopher to fix the overheating issue occuring in some LLY trucks.

As mentioned above, the LLY in this truck is a 2006. In many ways, it is a different engine than the LLY in the 2004.5 and 2005 trucks. The 2006 LLY/LBZ does not appear to have the overheating issues experienced by some of the 2004.5 and 2005 trucks. The 2006 trucks (LLY and LBZ) have the new air intake and fan system changes, along with lower engine compression.

what do you mean by "a good programmer"? Are you talking about boosting HP?