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i've been using holmes additive as suggested by the service mgr where my baby is serviced...however, a friend of mine uses Diesel Treat 2000 by Schaeffer Oil and likes it...


i KNOW there are LOTS of opinions here re additives, but any advice wud be welcome...


thanks...


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Diesel Treat 2000 simply stated makes #2 fuel premium by all standards.According to the NCWM Premium Parameters to be called a Premium you must meet (2) of the Following according to ASTM testing measures and other crieria.


Btu Content


Cetane


Detergency


Stability


Low Temperature Operability


Diesel Treat 2000 meets all FIVE (5). This product along with our Artic Flow Plus are the primary reasons we have become the 2nd largest diesel treat additive Co. in the Nation. For more detailed Tech Data go to www.schaefferoil.com (http://www.schaefferoil.com/) product 137nd.

Stanadyne Perforamnce Formula is what I use. Used Power Service Diesel Kleen.
GM endorses Stanadyne. Others like Primrose. Something else along the line of FFPF?

Lots of opinions about additives, I'm sure. Diesel Treat doesn't SOUND too bad.

A typical fuel fill for me is between 25 & 30 gallons. I use this mix:
- Amsoil Cetane Improver - 3.0 oz.
- Stanadyne Lubricity - 4.0 oz.
- Stanadyne Performance (Jr.) - Fill to top
Total = ~12.0 oz

Here in Texas we don't have to worry about cold-induced problems, so I use the Stanadyne Performance Jr. rather than regular Stanadyne Performance Formula. The only difference is the Jr. formula has no cold weather stuff.

I bought a bunch of 12-oz plastic bottles (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=14953&product%5Fid=14907) to store the mix and to make it convenient; no more guessing while at the pump. Just dump the whole thing in the tank & fill. I bought a case of each of the ingredients and am now good for at least 48 fuel fills.
Edited by: HBruns

What an excellent site for bottles!!!!

I wonder how important it is to use the additives. Does it really make any difference?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

BilllyH: I have no proof that additives do any good, but it seems to me that my truck runs a little better and mileage is better than I expected. Just my 02 . Stanadyne performance formula is my choice.Edited by: BRUCE

A lot of guys feel that a good fuel additive will pay for itself with increased mpg. The worst that happens with a good additive is that it will kill the humbugs, lubricate your fuel system, keep varnish and carbon deposits from buildiing up, control moisture and improve cetane.


With today's fuel and today's engines it is a must at least once in a while as a preventative measure.

I started using the Stanadyne Perf. Jr. also. I saved a few bottles of the Performance Formula just in case we get a freeze down here. So far, I haven't seen any difference in mpg or operation of my truck.


That's an interesting mix your running, HBruns. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Also good for starting camp fires.

(official sounding tone of voice) "Do so at your own risk"

HHAHA CAMP FIRES.....MIGHT TRY IT!! WELL, THE LAST TIME I CALLED THE PLACE WHERE THEY REBUILD INJECTORS (TYLER FUEL INJECTORS) I ASKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF FUEL ADDITIVE, AND THE LADY THERE TOLD ME THAT THE "OPTICAL SENSOR" IN THE STANADYNES ARE MOST DEPENDANT ON FUEL ADDITIVES....BUT, I KNOW QUITE A FEW PEOPLE WITH THEM THAT USE NO FUEL ADDITIVE, AND THEY SEEM TO HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THEIR INJECTOR PUMP.....SO, I JUST WONDER...I REALLY THINK THAT SHE WAS JUST DRUMMING UP BUSINESS....SHE SAID THE PUMP WOULDN'T LAST 10,OOO MILES WITHOUT THE ADDITIVE...WHO KNOWS???

Who knows. People seem to have high milage on their trucks without running additives. But with the lower emmission fuels being produced, it seems to make sense to run something.

What is the BEST stuff? Everyone has their own add hype, for their products.

An additive study would be good. Spicer?

I got a question. I work with some Semi fleets and truck stops. How come (at least in Central Illinois) I compete with Power Service, Howes, Lucas but see stanadyne? Where do you guys genarlly buy stanadyne?

I use Stanadyne in my LLY motor, after talking with a diesel shop owner here in Illinois. He was right. It's quieter, no smoke, and a small increase in mileage. The stealer service rep told me it's the only additive approved by GM????? Not sure about that. I'm lucky enough to have a stanadyne dealer in town, so I buy the 5 gallon can, and have several plastic bottles, which I fill and keep with in the box and then add 8 oz at every fill up. We even use Stanadyne in the fire engine motors here. With all the cold quick starts and idling carbon and soot are a problem.


2004 Sierra SLT

I got a question. I work with some Semi fleets and truck stops. How come (at least in Central Illinois) I compete with Power Service, Howes, Lucas but see stanadyne? Where do you guys genarlly buy stanadyne?

online. dieselpage.com. Local dealer seems to think this stuff is gold. Even with shipping I pay half of what the local dude wants.

Jim

That's an interesting mix you('re) running, HBruns. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Yea - it is. I wanted to cover all the bases.
I did a bunch of reading on this site, plus several others. What I'm looking for in a fuel additive is:
1. Lubricity to keep the hard working & expensive parts happy (a functional reason)
2. Detergent to keep down deposits (a functional reason)
3. Cetane improver for performance, low smoke and maybe a bit better mileage (mostly for fun)

I decided to use a product that was focused on each of these separate criteria and ended up with that mix. I do realize there is a fair amount of overlap between the products, which is OK as far as I’m concerned. I know of some respected folks on this forum (JK for one) who use additives at about twice the recommended mix ratio. In this case, more won’t mess things up and may actually help a bit.

As far as I know, GM does not recommend additives for the Duramax engine. They have endorsed Stanadyne additives on past diesel engines that use Stanadyne hardware. I'm not sure what harm these additives could do in a Duramax, though I believe that at worst they would do no harm even if there is no measurable benefit.

It is interesting to note that the Bosch fuel injection system on the Duramax calls for a lift pump, but GM does not use one. This makes me go “hmmmm…”. I know I’d like to use a lift pump, especially with the post-OEM Mega Filter I’m using. Bleeding the Mega 2 to 3 times on each fuel fill is a PITA, but a ~$350 solution is harder to swallow at this time than bleeding it.

One debate that I'm still unsure about is the Emulsifier/Demulsifier issue. At this time, since I'm using two filters, OEM and Kennedy Mega, each with water drains, I'll use a demulsifier to reduce the amount of water that passes through the system. If rust does develop, it will first develop on the dirty side of the OEM filter and be filtered out by that filter and the Mega filter.

HB


Sounds as if you did the necessary research for the additive, Only thing diff for me is I like the emulsifier. Mite try your mix looks like you got it all. If only a co. would bottle this mix for saleshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Geno

A lot of guys feel that a good fuel additive will pay for itself with increased mpg. The worst that happens with a good additive is that it will kill the humbugs, lubricate your fuel system, keep varnish and carbon deposits from buildiing up, control moisture and improve cetane.


With today's fuel and today's engines it is a must at least once in a while as a preventative measure.





Carbon in a diesel engine http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Yes. abear question?

With our additive as long as you don't go over triple the rec rate no harm will be done. I would think that would apply to most others as well.


You don't think manufacturers would actually put more than is needed per application do ya.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

HBruns


Are you blending your own additive and mixing in the same bottles????


If so, watch for a sludge build up in the bottom of your blending bottles.


I mixed 2 additives of different brands, and after a few days I noticed a 1/4" sludge or jell at the bottom of the jar. I would say, not a good sign.


good luck

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has there ever been an INDEPENDENT study re the enhancing qualities of additives?


question, HB...if the bosche system calls for a lift pump, WHY doesn't gm use one and since they don't why does my d-max run so well? </TD></TR>
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On edit: Oops - see my post below....Edited by: HBruns

question, HB...if the bosche system calls for a lift pump, WHY doesn't gm use one and since they don't why does my d-max run so well?

Pony Driver,
You are asking some WHY questions I have no direct answers to. The best I can do is guess -
My guess is that GM did enough testing to determine that the system runs well enough for them to risk deleting the lift pump. The $$ saved by leaving it off is more than they would spend on repairs. The cost/benefit analysis came out in favor of no lift pump.



<font size="2">HBruns </font>


<font size="2">Are you blending your own additive and mixing in the same bottles????</font>

letsgo,
Yes, for convenience I am mixing them in the same bottle. I have never heard of any problems doing this.

My thoughts on this are that these additives all go into diesel, which is already a very diverse mix of hydrocarbons. This mix is different from region to region, and from season to season. These additives are also hydrocarbons. If there would be a problem mixing them that would show up as problems caused by the additive; very bad news for the additive company.

Also, the MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheet) lists the chemicals in the product, along with their approximate percentages.
Stanadyne Performance Jr. (http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=2247)
Stanadyne Lubricity Formula ( http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=2245)
These two products have very nearly the same chemicals, but in different ratios. They are compatible. Amsoil’s Cetane improver, or any diesel cetane improver, will not mess with these chemicals either. Chevron has some very good information on fuels. ( http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_7_fs.htm) It gets a little technical, but it is excellent info. None the less, I’ll look for anything strange happening in the bottles.


Edited by: HBruns

Pony. Many studies have been done using additives in the semi-truck fleets.

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sales rep...if many additive studies have been done, where can i find the results?


there seems to be a LOT of opinions re which additive is best, but study results shud give SOME idea of which one is...i use howe's, but only because the shop foreman where i have my d/max serviced advised me to use it...they service LOTS of different diesels and sell different products, so he had nothing to gain by what i use...


hb's mix sounds interesting...


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I guess what I meant was there have been a lot of studies done by individual companies using their additive vs. no additive at all. For instance we did a 3.5 million mile fleet test with dt2000. Have done several with our soyshield as well. Of course noone is going to publish test that is not favorable to their product.


I would love to see a comparitive real life test on various adds and the results. But as you state it would have to be independent. If someone has a few vehicles and would be diligent about record keeping I would supply Schaeffer's Diesel treat 2000 for atest vs. others.

Maybe I missed it in a previous post but is the DT2000 a demulsifier or emulsifier. Thanks

Both

Both

Could you please explain how it works - demulsifies and emulsifies ??? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

Diesel Treat 2000 Emulsifies the water into very small droplets and coats them with a llubricant for free passage through the seperator,filters and serperator. The droplets flash into steam in the combustion chamber and improve combustion. Thus improving the overall "burning "of the fuel and mpg hp etc.


If there is more water in the fuel for the volume of dispersion (emulsifiers) chemicals, the remaining water is coalesced to be easily captured in the seperator (demulsified)

Diesel Treat 2000 Emulsifies the water into very small droplets and coats them with a llubricant for free passage through the seperator,filters and serperator. The droplets flash into steam in the combustion chamber and improve combustion. Thus improving the overall "burning "of the fuel and mpg hp etc.


If there is more water in the fuel for the volume of dispersion (emulsifiers) chemicals, the remaining water is coalesced to be easily captured in the seperator (demulsified)

Salesrep,
OK - that "sounds" like an answer. However, what you say does not negate the fact that the chemical & physical process of emulsification is opposite to the chemical & physical process of demulsification. Mixing water in and separating water out are two opposite processes.

The media in fuel filters is treated so as to allow passage of fuel while blocking water. It sounds like your "Emulsifier/Demulsifier" product is designed to negate this carefully engineered property of the filter. If you are using a surfactant to accomplish this, then that surfactant will eventually coat the filter media to the point that it will allow liquid water to flow through the filter rather than be blocked by it.

Water flashing into steam in the combustion chamber will cool the combustion process and provide a liquid-to-vapor state change. These are good things. However, any water in the fuel displaces fuel for water, thus lowering the available energy. This is a bad thing. Any water injection method should be separate from the fuel system.

In cases where the amount of water in fuel is high and overcomes your chemical package, there is still nothing there to actively demulsify the water out of the fuel. You're now counting on the natural tendency for fuel & water to separate, not actively helping the process. In this case, you now have a filter that passes both fuel AND water when you desperately need this large amount of water to be blocked by the filter system.

To my way of thinking, buying a product that is supposed to do two things that oppose each other is counter-productive. In my opinion, you'd be much better off choosing one action and doing it well rather than trying to do both and working against yourself.

I may be missing something and my logic may be flawed. If so, then you'll have to educate me about what I'm missing. I am always open to learning something new. I'm also sensitive to BS and I WILL fact-check. A good friend of mine is a petrolium engineer, and I married a chemical engineer. Edited by: HBruns

HBruns can make his own drugs.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif



Little curious how both work aswell, Salesrep.

Both


You might want to check on this. It's not chemically possible to do both concurrently. My best bet according to your answer is that it's a emulsifier. Still interested to know which it is though.

Hell ya'll hb is way over my head. This is what I know. The tech data sheet on our website product 137nd reads a lot better than I can put it. I listen to Hoon Ge The inventor of this product and our other chemiststs, and it works. It may be primarily one and have the "properties" of the other. Maybe you can tell me.


I know that a fleet I deal with of 27 Semi's went from a mpg of 6.19 to 6.7 which is a 7.6% increase in two months time by pouring this product into there tanks. How it specifically works I do not know. I leave that to the chemists.

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off"> sales rep...i have a friend who fell from grace and bought a 2001 psd f-550 http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif...


what do u recommend that she use in it?





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Heck yes pony. Iif you haven't figured out by now I will recommend dt 2000 in ANY Diesel Engine.

Hi, I am new here, just found this site a couple of weeks ago. :) It seems that what may be more important than the emulsifier/demulsifier debate at least for the Dmax is whether or not the product contains alcohol? Most of the brands you mention here I have never seen locally. The Schaeffer 137 Diesel Treat 2000 however is available. I have to date (20,000 kms) with no trouble of any sort with this truck and do not want to create any. Does the Schaeffer product contain alcohol? Is it a good product for the Dmax?:confused: