Hello. About 2 days ago I was at the local bar and I had a couple of friends ask me to take them for a ride. One of them wanted me to power brake it to build up some boost for a good 2wd launch and of course, I complied with juice on 5 and smoke on 5 for a good show. They thought that it was so cool they wanted me to do it again, so I did maybe 5 minutes later, cruising around in the meantime. After about another 10 minutes of 25mph or less driving I went to do it one last time. The truck just bogged and smoked. It wouldnt build any boost. I knew something was wrong. I looked at the trans temp and it was at 250 degrees! I said holy sh*t thats it and cruised on the highway (55mph) for about 20 miles to head home. The temps GRADUALLY came down to 230 by then and I shut it off....


NOW, as soon as I put it into gear (reverse is worse) the truck lurches and then is almost bogging before I even let off the brake. I tried a very light brakestand just to see if the pickup had gotten better and it had/has not. Any amout of throttle with a foot on the brake (not even hard) just makes the truck bog.


Did I toast it? I'm sure the 285 tires dont help either. I'm thinking of changing the fluid but I want to know if I'm wasting my time. Clint is my next call but I thought I'd get a heads up from Eric or Mike.


*note: Alcohol may have contributed to SOME of this http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif and now I'm afraid I'm gonna have to pay....


Thanks guys.

I have powerbraked my tranny so many times I have lost count. I would light up ATS's phone like a Christmas tree......

hard to say if you damaged the trans or something else. By it bogging down, you could have something welded togather inside the trans. Does it drive normally? Or not at all?

Eric, besides when you put it into gear or come to a complete stop (where its pulling on the engine pretty hard) I would say it drives pretty normal. It shifts a little harder than before when it locks in the torq converter but I was thinking maybe that was something the tranny had learned and needs to settle down again. BUT, its been a couple of days now and its still doing the same thing.


I was wondering if the 250 degrees boiled the dino tranny oil? I have been meaning to go to syn. again since the ATS tranny but I kind of wanted to get some use out of the new oil ATS put in. I've only got 15K miles on it so far. I have no probelm changing oil and putting synthetic in but I dont want to do it if something else is wrong because I cant afford to put synthetic in it twice.


I know I said earlier that reverse is worse, and if you go into neutral the truck has a tendency to start to coast backwards on flat ground. What could I have welded to cause this?


Jason

You look at the dipstick? Dont sound healthy. I have done worse than that and havent done anything like that so something aint happy. At the strip I was doing quite a few 4x4 launches from 9psi or so and taking a couple of minutes between runs. Sitting there with my foot on the brake and on the gas waiting for the light to drop. Also from personal expereince(my bud has the marks in his drivehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif) I dont think I can get much over 10psi in 2wd before the tires break lose. You change your trans filter yet? Probably not related but you should do it asap on a new trans and then I go every oil change or every other depending. Suncoast level 3 with mobil 1.

Ratlover, Yeah I checked the oil and it doesnt look all that bad to me. I changed the spin on at 5K after the new tranny and I've only went 7K since then.


I talked to Mike at ATS and he said it sounds like I slipped something with a pin thats in the torq convertor. Wants me to take it to Denver but I dont have the time for that. They set me up with a shop in Omaha and are sending a replacement TC to put in. Next Thursday is the big day....


I do have to say that ATS was very friendly and willing to help. I thought I would be scolded or given the 3rd degree but there really was no questions asked. Now I just hope that the TC is all thats wrong!


Jason

Never had anything like that happen. Keep up posted on if the converter solves the problem. Good Luckhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I'm starting to wonder if its a little more than the TC... I backed it out of the garage this morning and had a look underneith...The bottom of the trans. right by the motor is wet with ATF. There isnt much of a puddle (pop can sized) under where the truck was parked. I pulled off the spin on and the magnet was covered with black gunk but I could see metal particles in the fluid in the filter besides what I took off the magnet...


Could just a TC malfunction do this? Also, I was wondering, Mike L has said before that you can "suprise" or sneak up on a tranny. I dont drive my truck that hard very often, so I wonder if the burst of powerbraking that I did had some "suprise" effect on it? Is that possible with the Co-pilot?


Thanks again,


Jason

MaxFarmer


I do not think you can surprise Copilot as I believe it keeps Ally in fastlearn. I believe converter might have let go. From what you described it went into "Hot Mode". This program comes into play at 259 deg and lock-up will be commanded in every gear includig first to cool the trans down. ( in first gear, lock up will come on off idle so you don't kill the engine). I would have scanned for codes first and cleared them before I decided what to do. I would then have pulled the pan and checked for contamination and I would have cut open both filters to see what was in them, if anything. In the future when you do this kind of thing, give the Ally plenty of time to cool down. I will bet your converter out fluid ( fluid coming out of the converter going into trans cooler) was pushing 350 deg or higher. 250 deg is the norm, 300 is unacceptable, anything above that is meltdown.


mike

Kennedy Diesel and Suncoast Converters are currently developing a fusible link for the drivetrain of the D/A combo. Presently in alpha testing, we are hoping to release some beta units shortly. Here's a sneak peek:





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/82B_Twisted_driveshaft.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Beauty Eh!!!!


or should it be


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


????

Max,


We are currently working on a "fusible link" to protect your trans when powerbraking. We need Beta testers.


smoophttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Drive_shaft.jpg

Heavy sigh........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

Ouch!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I'm sure that would be much cheaper than a TC swap but it would still have to make you fill your shorts (or maybe empty them) to feel that happen!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif BUT, if you feel thats the answer, sign me up!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I'm hoping to be able to hang around a little bit while my truck is being fixed Thursday. I'm going to at least get a picture or two to put up of the damage....


Jason

C'mon JK we all know thats a leather jacket you're trying to pass off as torque induced twist!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Blake

I thought it was a rolled up mat/carpet. Could be a semi rusted drive shaft.



But my mind is semi young and impressionable http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

You can destroy any Automatic transmission by doing a brake torque.


You just got unlucky that you didn't read that on the Allison site prior.

You'll have to let me know when you find a better link I have found two so far: drive shaft and front CV joint:-Dhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/bigjon00/2004-09-28_215939_front_cv.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/bigjon00/2004-09-28_220027_bent_drive_shaft.jpg

in the picture it looks like yout CV's were at too much of an angle

So the tie rod sleeves dont help as much as claimed? At least I can say I was only doing a 2wd braked launch....not that it matters much now..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif Needless to say, I'm going to be much easier on the powerbraking from now on, and NO alcohol induced showing off anymore!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


JasonEdited by: MaxFarmer

Man I'm new at this--and it's going to sound like a stupid question, but here it goes anyway.......What are the claims for the SS tie rod ends..what do they actually do?

They add beef to the tie rods and help keep from breaking bending them. they wont do anything for your CV's. They will help keep your front tires from trying to point at each other but then your drag link starts bending a bit.


I have done quite a few 4x4 launches and havnt hurt my tie rods. Even launched at the track and broke traction soo bad in 4x4 that the whole truck jumped up and down quite a bit, wheel hop on all 4 cornershttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif


Super Diesel sells the sleeves and they are very nice/worth the price IMO. Cheap insurance IMO


IMO add some sleeves, lower your t bars, and let her eat. Dont blame breakage on me though. After a bit more playing I will decide if I think something needs to be done with the drag link or if lowering the bars is good enough with the extreme and a bit more help. My goal is for some monster 60's

Sounds like a plan I need to look into.


I've never launched a truck at the track, but I have done some nasty 4-wheelin and broke the R/F cv joint. I do know what it's like to hop all 4 wheels off the ground bad enough to kiss the upper inner liner...can't seem to remember that darn seatbelt until after the fact ?


Didn't know if the sleeves helped out the cv joints.


Can't blame breakage on anyone else, I've always found a way to tear it up on my own........only money right?

Well, I told you guys I'd keep you up to date so here's the lates news... I got a phone call this afternoon telling me that their tranny jack blew out its seals when he was getting ready to take out my transmission. He wont get his jack back till tomorrow so I dont know whats wrong for sure yet. THEN he asks me if my toolbox lid was on when I dropped it off (I left it there late last night). I told him of course and its locked too. Well, it wasnt on this morning. It was laying on the ground. ALL my tools gone. EVERYTHING. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif Not to mention that I'm sure my sliding toobox lid is toast.


I asked if they had insurance or not and they said they dont know. The truck was parked in thier lot therefore its thier responsibility to replace everything, isnt it?


Sorry had to vent, thanks for listening/reading


Jason

MaxFarmer,


Sorry to hear about that, gotta just make you sick.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/throw up.gif


Did the dealer also have your keys to the truck? If you dropped it off overnight did you fill out a service request and put the keys in a drop box? Most states have a "Care & Custody" law that should protect against theft and damage to your vehicle while it's on their lot and in their possession.


Just as a suggestion I might check into that with the dealer? or local authorities in your area

I'm always a pessimist. Any chance someone from the shop used a
key, took what they wanted, than beat the stuffing out of your lid?

They called the authorities yesterday morning about it, and I got a call from them this morning wanting a list of everything that was in there. The shop I took it to is a smaller shop, I bet there's 5 people that work there including the secretary. I have a hard time believing that they would have broken into it but who knows?


The company knew I was dropping it off after hours but I could not find the drop box so I slid the keys underneith their shop garage door. When I talked to my insurance agent yesterday he told me to mention the same "care and custody" policy to them and see where I get. Right now the hardest part is remembering everything that was in there and then putting $$ amounts for them.

Lets see: You imbibe too much alcohol and act a little stupid and screw your trans up. You expect ATS to step up and take responsibility for that. Then you park your truck outside a shop, after hours at night, someone breaks into your tool box and you expect the shop to take responsibility for that. It must be nice to have someone else be responsibility for one's bad decisions. Care, custody and control: What actions could the shop have taken to protect your truck?


smoop

I brake torque the $^*& out of my converter every launch at the dragstrip. If ATS converters were prone to failure I'd know it by now. I also use mobil 1 ATF.

Smoop, not ONCE did I ever say anything bad about ATS or blame ATS for what happened to my transmission. I dotn think I even said that it is "supposed" to handle unlimited HP and TQ. Thats why they have thier 100K mile warranty. More than one person has said on this thread that they brakestand the Shttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gift out of thier truck with no problems.


Tell me what I could have done to to protect my truck? My work schedule only allows me to drop my truck off after hours. I took every percaution BUT to remove my whole friggen toolbox. Next time I'll tow my garage along with my truck to make sure its safe, how's that?


Jason

Jason,


The point was what could the shop have done? Sometimes #*&@ happens, that's what we pay insurance for. Why should the shop be responsible for some lowlife thief's actions? The way it works is: At our shop we have a 6' chain link, if a customer leaves a vehicle in our care,custody ,control and we could not store the vehicle inside it would be our responsibility to lock the vehicle inside the fence and lock the gates to the fence. Failure to do this would deem us negligent and we (or our insurance) would be responsibility. If we secured the vehicle and locked it inside the fence and some scumball climbs the fence and breaks into it, it still goes back to his insurance since we could not have prevented the incident. If a customer decided to leave his vehicle parked outside after hours there is nothing we can do to protect his vehicle during that time period. If an unfortunate incident should occur it is his responsibility (or his insurance co). Bottom line: if you are going to leave your vehicle in an unsecured vulnerable place, remove anything of value that you can.


smoop

Well, I finally got my truck back today. The TC was the problem. There was a lot of metal flakes in the oil. The TC is a HUGE sealed unit so I have no idea what went wrong there.


Their ins. company said just as Smoop said, they dont cover what was dropped off after hours. My company already knows so now I have to get them on the ball...


Otherwise, I cant tell much right now. My tranny must still be "learning" b/c the shifts were bad for a while but are better now. For some reason after about 10-15 miles of driving when getting onto the highway it made a hard shift into D and then went back to 3rd and I lost my tach, speedo, engine and tranny temps and fuel guages. Tranny wouldnt shift out of 3rd even after stopping. After a few panicy calls I started checking fuses. FINALLY discovered that IGN 0 fuse was blown. I still cant figure out why that blew....


All works good now though.


Jason

tc isnt really sealed, the trans is pumping fluid through it.


Definatly change your spin filter and i would drop the pan and do the inner one too.(unless the shop did all this?) And change the spin after that prtyy shortly again. Hopefully the converter guts didnt chew on anything else.

I had them flush it and change both filters before I ever picked it up. He said it was really bad (metal) coming out of the cooler. How many miles before I do a spin on again?


Jason

Thats good that you had em do that.


If it were me I would yank the spin now if you have some miles on it and cut it open. Then decide how you want to approach it depending on how much if anything you find. Look at the magnet and then run a mag through the filter pleats to see what kinda buggers you come up with.


JMO

I like that idea. I have a spare spin on so I'll do that sometime tomorrow. Thanks for the help.


Jason