http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif This is now starting to become ridiculious. Boost fooler (pot switch) installed as per QM's instructions and diagram, only tied into the 'B' wire so far. NO CHANGE http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif. I put plug in style clips on the wire ends and soldered them on, connections are good, wired to the MAP and PCM on the right poles of the switch, 0 pot, 1/5 pot, full pot, no CHANGES. You guys have read my posts, you know the mods i have made with 00000000000.000000000000 results!


0-60 in 15 seconds flat, boost gauge works fine, here turbo just fine, boost will spike to 14-15 psi from a standing start, 70 mph boost about 2 psi, will climb to 7 - 8 psi on hills or whenever rpm is around 2000 - 2200 and engine is loaded. I did accidently find out that with the 'B' wire cut there is 0 boost at any speed (wire came off the pot when i put it in the dash but fixed that).


NEW waste gate selonoid, all vac lines are good, waste gate actuator is good. Optic still bumped to last post on that thread. Spits fuel out the bleeder with key on, new fuel filter, new air filter, no SES even with the Map cut for 20 mile drive, i have no SES, just an idiot light with a picture of an engine, i've looked with a flashlight at night to see the dashes lights in case the SES was there just not lighting but its not so i'll assume the engine pic is for that. Remember i have a 2000.


Please help!!!!

Switch the wires some pots are reverse from others. You should be able to "read" the voltage drop when you turn that dial with aligator clips and multimeter making the junction on the curcuit. Stock voltage is 1.47v and it should drop to 1.23v.

You forgot to mention the stove pipe you added too, I mean, exhaust ;)


I know what you meanhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif, More fuel, more boost, bigger exhaust, and still nada? somethings just not right... maybe its time for the *cough* Dual Breathers. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Good answer. The poor guy has wasted his time with all these Mods. Sorry QM.


Should have listened to real world data.


Dual Breathers... That ought to wake that thing up.


F****N' Rocketship status.





Good luck CR.

Dont mean to sound stupid, but what are dual breathers?

Come on guys, can't you be just a little more helpful? I've blown wads of cash on certain mods, ie: the exhaust i forgot to mention, but this truck just don't want to do any better. If i could get a breather with a threaded connection for my filler neck they'd be on in a second just to see if it helped.


QM I've hooked this thing up as per your diagram with the 10K linear taper 'Radio Shack' pot as mentioned previously, its simply a no go here. I took my meter and checked the voltage coming off the 'B' wire on the MAP side with my meter to a good ground, 1.99V going to middle pot, moving the pot and checking with the meter on either side of the pot changes nothing, i've reversed the wires with the same result. I tested the pot itself with the meter and its fine with resistance topping out @ 10.19K on both ends. When i checked the 'B' wire that came to the Map it's voltage is all over the place, this is an electronic meter and it goes nuts hooked up to it so there's no number to view.


Spending a little cash doesn't hurt me at all, not getting results just plain old ticks me off! You guy's are very helpful and i appreciate all you try to do so don't be offended if i'm a little ticked from not getting results as i know your trying your best! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

CR,


I have always wired mine with the scantool confirming the volt change on the MAP sensor and WGDC and You may be at a slight disadvantage. It will work when the volt signal drops with the turn of the wiper. My diagram could be reverse of what's necessary for your particular pot. switch. Don't give up, you've gotten this far. You can't put that 4" to use without 15 psi.


You could always add the ground wire and make it a true potential switch.


I hope you don't have a faulty reading off your MAP 1.99 v is 6 psi.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Faulty reading? The tester says 1.99v and its not faulty. Like i said with only 1 wire coming from the MAP and tester checking either post on the pot its @ 1.99v and doesn't change when its turned........ um..... did i need to rev the engine to see a change?





Kennedy's fooler is looking pretty good right now, matter of fact so is the chip!

What I'm saying is 1.99v is a high reading for idle. If that's your idle reading it's a few psi high.


Buy Kenedy's fooler. It will be plug and play.The reflash could be the answer to your prayers.Edited by: quantum mechanic

3,461.6141' to be exact!

I remembered that altitude increase shold mean a pressure decrease.


250' above sea level here. My MAP reads 1.47v stock unresisted reading. If your's is reading 1.99v that would be more pressure or the equivilent of the PCM thinking you had boost already and keeping the WGDC lower. That could explain poor performance without a code. Ask TD about how many HP you loose when the MAP is reading boost at idle. He dynoed his so he knows for sure.

Have you considered that maybe your truck has other problems that are causing it to be anemic? You said you changed the fuel filter, how about clogged fuel injectors, something along those lines? If you're adding more boost, more fuel, more exhaust, and still doing 0-60 in 15 seconds, it would be my indication that there is another problem with the truck. Mine did 0-60 in 9.5 seconds last winter 100% stock, and went down to 12.5 in the summer before I added the TurboMaster.

From what I understand the injectors are supposed to be changed every 100k miles anyway. Maybe it's time for you to change them. You can even get those fancy ones that are supposed to give you another 25 hp boost.

When I run resisted I'm in the 1.23v-1.12v range. If your switch doesn't lower the volts then, no, it won't change a thing.

When you didn't have any boost, did it smoke a lot? If not, more boost isn't going to help you.


How many miles are on the injection pump and injectors?


Is the picture of the engine on all the time or just when you had the broken wire?

You mean that black cloud behind me? Yeah it smoked. Smokes a little with the turbo working too on hard accel.


162,000 km's (100,000 miles) and appears so far to only use 1 liter of oil in 5,000 km's. (me thinks most of that is going through the turbo blades as it was kinda wet in the intake snorkel)


Engine light picture is never on, only lights with initial turn of the key and then goes out. Didn't even come on with the wire off the pot.


If it were clogged injectors wouldn't i get a light for something? I've run a few tanks of conditioned fuel through it even with a heavy dose cleaner but nothing.


J5940 nozzle or seal? Replaced @ 8904 km???


J3500 Replaced - Thermostat, outlet and/or gasket?


E7690 Replaced - Sensor, steering wheel rotation?


J3177 Replaced - Line or hose, engine oil cooler - Both done.


J0960 Replaced - Adapter and/or gasket, oil filter?


T5552 replaced 135,114 km

You should have a POTentiometer (if it has a SWITCH, there will be two (2) more terminals in brown or black plastic on the back side, opposite the shaft) with three (3) wires soldered to the three terminals, each wire long enough to reach to Map Sensor - top front of upper intake plenum where it spreads and turns toward turbo compressor.


With pot shaft facing you, three (3) teminals on top -


Wire from left terminal goes to MAP sensor and connects to pin A, along WITH the wire that was originally there.


Wire from right terminal goes to MAP sensor and connects to pin B, where you previously removed the wire that was originally on pin B.


Wire on center terminal goes to Map sensor area and connects to the original wire you removed from pin B.


If this is correct, proceed...


Key on, engine off, with DVM Negative (black) lead on left terminal, ground, and Positive (red) lead on right terminal, you should read +5 volts dc.


If this is correct, proceed...


You should get a voltage that is variable from ground to +5v on the center terminal when you rotate the pot shaft, DVM Negative (black) lead on left terminal of pot, Positive (red) lead on center terminal.


If this is correct, then Boost should be variable, increasing as pot is rotated clockwise.


Too far clockwise will immediately set DTC for Boost Sensor out of range.


Cannot be dynamically tested by racing engine from idle in Neutral - PCM wants Boost only when engine is loaded.


Edited by: gmctd

....? are you telling him to run the pot from the 'A' 5v reference to the 'B' signal wire??? 10k ohms will send about 4v to his ECM MAP input and will read very high boost and throw a code.


All you have to do is cut the 'B' wire, connect a wire to each of the new ends you got from cutting the wire, connect one to the center post on the pot and one to the left, or right, whichever you prefer.


Does this truck really make that much black smoke? I presume if it does, than it didnt' before you increased the fuel via optic bump. Does it still smoke when your boost levels off? If it does, thats a good thing, as whatnot metnioned earlier, more boost doesnt help if there isn't more fuel to burn. I have a feeling something is not right with your pot switch wiring, not to knock you or anything, I think you might have just miss read something.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Has ANYONE ever VERIFIED, CONFIRMED, PROVEN that this 'optic bump' increased the fuel rate?


If not, don't assume or presume.


Because it probably didn't...

My scantool indicated a numeric increase on the fuel reading after I "bumped" mine. Seat of pants dyno felt it.

Just follow the instructions to get variable Boost.


Pin A is Sensor Ground for MAP, Baro, EGR, Boost and other sensors, OBD-I and OBD-II.


Near as I can tell, Billman, retarding the Optic Sensor one (1) silly millimeter, about negative two degrees, results in higher injection pressures, effecting slightly advanced timing.


CanadianRigger verified this in an earlier post.


Does the same thing as the electronic TDC Offset Adjustment, fooling thePCM into waiting till the rollers are farther up the ramps before initiating the injection cycle.


Higher injection pressures wear the injectors faster, which is why GM set the TDC Offset at -0.5deg - minimal pressure resulted in longer service replacement intervals, reduced warranty considerations.


Higher injection pressure creates finer fuel atomization resulting in quicker burn and more complete combustion.


Because the pressures in the cycle begin higher, the injector 'pops' quicker in the injection cycle, as if with advanced timing.


Setting TDC Offset to -1.94deg results in crisper injector 'pop' with more pronounced combustion rattle, just as CanadianRigger noticed with the mechanical adjustment.


TDG?????


QM - the scanner will only read what the PCM is programmed to produce.


Cranking up the pump, if you could do that, would produce more fuel flow, but the PCM would still show it's programmed rate.


You might be getting 100mm3 from the pump, but PCM will still send 63mm3 data to the scanner.


Just as with offsetting the Boost Sensor - Boost gage reads 15psi, but PCM sees 7psi from offset, sends 7psi data to scanner.Edited by: gmctd

First off, Billman, you seem to have forgotten that I work in a fuel shop, wherein we have these devices called 'Test Stands' and they will invariably prove as I have already, that moving the optic sensor, will increase fuel delivery.


Timing has nothing to do with injection line pressure, the ONLY thing that determines this is the nozzle opening pressure of the injector, once line pressure reaches nozzle opening pressure, the injection event begins.


TDC Offset does not affect internal operation of the IP, Start of injection is signaled by Lo Res Cam pulse, the optic sensor is bolted to the cam ring and moving the pump does not change this. TDC Offset just changes the advance range the pump will operate in.


You can also prove the pump is producing more fuel by observing with a scanner, how much fuel the PCM thinks its delivering at idle before and after. When you move the optic, this value will drop, obviously the engine does not suddenly need less fuel to maintain the same idle speed, rather, the pump is injection the same fuel as before but with a shorter pulse width than before.

OK, i will set the pot and wires as instructed and post results when done. Any idea's as to why i haven't seen any increase's with the other mods so far? Ass dyno show's no increases and neither does 0-60's, i know this is not a terrific way to see what works and what don't but at least you'd think it would be an indication your doing the right thing.


Maybe the injectors are weak, one of em was replaced @ 8,400kms. New PMD around 135,000.

Any possibility you can post fuel rate figures that demonstrate the base and the increase, TDG?


Also base interval to 'pop' pressure vs 'bump' interval to 'pop' pressure.


Not questioning your abilities - just attempting to learn, here.


-------

QM


What was the actual change in the fuel delivery rate?


'Seat of the pants' felt it? Honestly? I think you're the only one.


Maybe you made 2 changes at once where it was the other change that gave you the increase?


TDG


I'm just as curious as the next guy to learn, but do you really think this 'mod' has the ability to make a 'Black Cloud' behind CR's truck. You never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back.


Believe me when I tell you, I haven't forgotten you work in a 'Fuel Shop'. Neither has anyone else. You like to remind us often.


Fuel Shops need janitors too.


CR


It's not too late. The improvements you're looking for cannot be found here. You said it yourself that the boost controller and chip/reflash are looking better.


They do look real good. They perform even better.


Good luck...

Billman,


Have you ever gotten behind the wheel of a slightly modified 6.5L with a broken armature on the fuel solenoid?There's some hidden power in this pump and having to drive home 70 miles in that condition really illustrated that point to me. Surge doesn't quite describe it.


I am willing to Bump it back to baseline and take some readings on the fuel at idle and then advance it(retard to advance) to the 1mm and possibly 1 1/2mm .

QM


What was the actual change in the fuel delivery rate?


'Seat of the pants' felt it? Honestly? I think you're the only one.


Maybe you made 2 changes at once where it was the other change that gave you the increase?


TDG


I'm just as curious as the next guy to learn, but do you really think this 'mod' has the ability to make a 'Black Cloud' behind CR's truck. You never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back.


Believe me when I tell you, I haven't forgotten you work in a 'Fuel Shop'. Neither has anyone else. You like to remind us often.


Fuel Shops need janitors too.


CR


It's not too late. The improvements you're looking for cannot be found here. You said it yourself that the boost controller and chip/reflash are looking better.


They do look real good. They perform even better.


Good luck...





BILLMAN DO YOU EVER HAVE ANY BUT NEGITIVE TO SAY ABOUT PEOPLE/MODS THATS NOT YOURS. HAS ANYONE BESIDE YOU EVER VERIFTIED THAT YOUR TRUCK AND MODS MAKE THE POWER YOU CLAIM OR THAT FACT THAT ANY OF US EVEN HAVE A TRUCK. NO AND NO. CAN'T YOU BACK OFF TDG AND LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER TO HELP EACH OTHER. I DON'T REMEMBER IF YOUR THE ONE THAT KEEPS REMINDING US OF YOUR AGE, BUT WHY DOES THAT MATTER. IT JUST SEEMS THAT SOME PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE NEGATIVE THINGS ONLY TO SAY. I HAVE SEEN LOTS OF "WRONG" (IMHO) INFO COME ACROSS THIS BOARD BUT I HAVEN'T JUMP ON THE ONES POSTING IT BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERENCES RIGHT.


Now can someone get me a ladder so I can get down.

A DS pump, stock configuration, is fully capable of producing 90+ ccs of fuel. The reason these guys say they can achieve 83 ccs with a chip is because that is precisely what a DS pump will max out at with stock calibration. There's only 3 things that determine DS performace regaurding fuel delivery, optic sensor, resistor value and wear/leakage. Stanadyne's test plan states to set the optic sensor at @ 1500 RPM and a given pulse width to achieve 29.5 - 30.5ccs. If you set the optic sensor to this, when you run your final draws to determine resistor value, the computer will indicate that you need a resistor value of usually 6, sometimes 5, 7 if the pump is a little weak or setting was on the low side. Setting the optic to approx 32 - 33ccs, you will notice cranking delivery is dramaticaly improved, and the computer will call for a calibration resistors 2 and 3 most of the time. I set mine on the bench to 34ccs (approx where CR's appears to be), computer told me to install res #1 which I already had in place. The test plans take several 600 RPM idling draws, making sure this is very close to optimal 13ccs will ensure PCM will have adequate contol of idle speed, and you will know the rest of the spectrum you have more fuel than spec, 3-5% when set @ 32-33ccs.

hmmmmm....


Wish i had a scanner and new how to use it. If i were to buy that autotap unit for my computer could i do the timing on this truck and if so would you guys walk me through it. Never timed a diesel and the old timing light doesn't seem to work to good when i clamp it to an injection line...


BILLMAN


Whats wrong with someone else's opinions and experience's? Or is yours the only one that should count?


I have a lot to learn here and your NOT helping me any!

You get a chance to hook that stuff up, CR?


And thanks, TDG - I'm correlating for a bit.Edited by: gmctd

Gentlemen some civility please, lets agree to disagree without getting our governors up on step and pinging on each other personally.

To all offended parties.


I apologize for my comments.


Uncalled for. Funny. But none the less uncalled for.

gmctd


No chance to get that done yet, maybe today i hope!


Billman


Takes a big man to admit they may have been wrong, my hat is off to you for that. I take everyones comments and opinions and form my own from there, thanks. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Good - post your findings, whatever they are, for posteriority.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif