RESOLVED- Air leak from CAT pre/post fuel filter setup [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

: RESOLVED- Air leak from CAT pre/post fuel filter setup


KevTech
09-19-2004, 11:55 PM
Well boys, I think that I have fiigured out why the CAT 0750 fuel filter in the PRE or POST setup had been giving many problems with an air leak.


Earlier this year I created the following post showing a PRE or POST bypass fuel filter setup:


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4160&PN=2


Many people tried this kit with problems of unresolved air leaks. Many thought it was the CAT head & many thought it may be the hose connections. Then there were a few lucky people like myself that never once expeienced an air leak with this setup. UNTIL RECENTLY....


After 10,000miles of perfect use without an air leak or any problems at all, it was time to change the CAT0750 fuel filter.


I spun off the old filter, installed the new filter, primed the unit & started up the truck. All worked fine until I shut off the truck & came back the next morning to find that it would stall out when trying to start!


I primed the fuel line again & the truck started right up & worked fine all day. Then once the truck was shut off for more than an hour it would stall out when I tried to re start it.


I knew that nothing was wrong with my bypass fuel setup so I thought there may be something wrong with the CAT filter since that was the only thing that had changed since the air leak problem started.


I spun off the filter & examined it with no visible clues at to why I was experiencing an air leak. I lightly greased the CAT filter gasket thinking this may help & then spun it back on. This time I turned it a little tighter thinking this many give it a better seal. I primed the unit & the truck started right up.


After driving the truck for a couple hours & then letting it sit, I went to start it back up & experienced the exact same air leak problem with the truck stalling out!!


I was stumped.....Why was this unit giving me such problems when nothing had changed except the new filter? After pondering some time without avail, I went to take the filter off. This time it was a little more tough to spin off since I turned it on a little more tight with the last install.


Guess what I had seen? As the filter started to slowly truning off the CAT head, the rubber filter gasket was not moving while the filter was spinning. Yes, the filter gasket had a nice tight seal against the CAT head but was turning loosly between the gasket & filter base groove.


Once the filter was totally removed, I examined the gasket & all looked normal. Then I removed the gasket from the filter with little effort & noticed that there was quite a bit of diesel between the gasket & the groove that it sat in on the filter base.


My theory is that with the vacuum pressure build up in the fuel line, air was being drawn in between the CAT fuel filter gasket & the fuel filter groove that the gasket sat in, after the truck was shut off each time.


I cleaned the head of the fuel filter & gasket groove with a rag. Then applied a thin layer of grease to the groove on the end of the filter before pushing the rubber gasket back into place. I applied a thin layer of grease to the outside of the filter gasket & spun it back onto the CAT filter head.


Started the truck up & have not yet had an air leak of any kind since. I have a feeling that no matter how tight the filter is spun on, air was leaking into the system between the CAT filter groove & the factory rubber gasket that is sitting in that groove.........................A thin layer of grease seems to have solved everything.

baimpala
09-20-2004, 07:59 AM
KevTech,


Do you think it is just the 0750 filter or were others having the same problem with different filters? What type of grease did you use?


Thanks, good info. . . It's good to bring back some older topics every once in a while for those of us who weren't around for the birth of the forum.


Dennis

Kennedy
09-20-2004, 10:58 AM
Gremlins?





I'd say it's more a matter of collecting the "air" that releases from the fuel as it reaches it's vapor point...

a bear
09-20-2004, 12:05 PM
Gremlins?





I'd say it's more a matter of collecting the "air" that releases from the fuel as it reaches it's vapor point...





What he said. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

KevTech
09-20-2004, 12:41 PM
What is collecting the "air" that releases from the fuel as it reaches it's vapor point?

a bear
09-20-2004, 02:24 PM
What is collecting the "air" that releases from the fuel as it reaches it's vapor point?


The dirty side of the filters or any other spot where there is adequate retention time. It varies by filter size, location and filter base design. Pos pressure on the fuel system is the only true solution to rid a system of all free air which is pulled out of solution.

Frank Blum
09-20-2004, 05:18 PM
Here we go again!

ShumDit
09-20-2004, 11:58 PM
............Guess what I had seen? As the filter started to slowly truning off the CAT head, the rubber filter gasket was not moving while the filter was spinning. Yes, the filter gasket had a nice tight seal against the CAT head but was turning loosly between the gasket & filter base groove..............








Well, in theory anyway, one of the gasket surfaces must release to be able to remove the filter. Just a shot in the dark on my part but if over-torqued during the initial install, perhaps the filter endplate is sprung suffiently to allow bottoming out of the threads and releasing necessary tension that we really need? (Think I experienced a like situation ~ a leaky allison spin-on that was resolved simply by fitting another filter). As for the out-gassing stuff, thats for those smarter than I.

Pick
09-21-2004, 06:52 AM
I replaced my 0749 with an 0750 this go around, and have had no problems at all, in 1500 miles.

nassdmax
09-21-2004, 12:35 PM
Here we go again!


Preciselyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Do a search for the o-ring or gasket that a few of us use to eliminate issues...

Mitchagain
09-21-2004, 12:41 PM
Here we go again!


Preciselyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Do a search for the o-ring or gasket that a few of us use to eliminate issues...





As Jackie Gleeson would say "And awaaay we go!"

TraceF
09-21-2004, 07:37 PM
What is collecting the "air" that releases from the fuel as it reaches it's vapor point?


The dirty side of the filters or any other spot where there is adequate retention time. It varies by filter size, location and filter base design. Pos pressure on the fuel system is the only true solution to rid a system of all free air which is pulled out of solution.





Tommy- why do you think that there seem to be more air/stalling issues with post oem installations? Nick seems to have few if any problems with his kit and I have never had an issue with my own pre oem design. I DO accumulate air but it seems to purge through the system some how.

TraceF
09-21-2004, 07:38 PM
Here we go again!


Preciselyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Do a search for the o-ring or gasket that a few of us use to eliminate issues...





Could you give me a better tip as to what to search for... I don't understand.

problemchild
09-21-2004, 07:58 PM
whats the diff between the 749/750

Frank Blum
09-21-2004, 10:39 PM
Trace, Mitchagain can tell you how he cured his Cat filter air problem. My post setup is entirely different than the rest and doesn't have air problems if I make sure I get it all out after changing the filters. Later! Frank

Mr X
09-21-2004, 11:14 PM
hat cha cha cha! Next thing we'll be hearing about the benefits of fuel pumps...

jbplock
09-22-2004, 06:37 AM
From the archives of past Fuel Filter discussions ... good paper on this subject...

Suction/Vacuum Side Fuel Filters (http://www.baldwinfilters.com/engineer/pdf/94-6r.pdf)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

nassdmax
09-22-2004, 08:56 AM
Try reading the aged post here...


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9076&KW=nassdmax


HTH.

Diesel Power
09-22-2004, 10:52 AM
Tommy- why do you think that there seem to be more air/stalling issues with post oem installations? Nick seems to have few if any problems with his kit and I have never had an issue with my own pre oem design. I DO accumulate air but it seems to purge through the system some how.





Trace- The only air problems i've ever heard of pre-oem (in the back where yours is) is when people forget to tighten down the fittings on the filter head..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif The system is capable of passing a decent amount of air before stalling.. i've proved this by leaving 7' of fuel line empty, installing a kit, pre-filling the filter (so the new lines are the only empty thing) and starting the truck w/o priming..

duramaxtom
09-27-2004, 02:12 PM
you need a lift pump pure and simple. diesel fuel has a very low vapor point, and all that entrained air that you are converting from liquid to vapor state is going to pit your injectors and delay your timing.. I think the nicktane and kennedy design all suffer from this (mine sure did and the lift pump was the cure)





What is entrained air? Get a soda, stick a straw in the can and suck on it. your mouth fills with lots of bubbles. your pump is getting the same.