Well I took the truck to the dealer about 2 weeks ago and they said everything was fixed...so I gave them the benefit of the doubt and took their word for it.....the last week my g/f has had the truck and said it was doing it again.......but there was no knocking sound just a bunch of white smoke....i figured she was exagerating it a bit....well everything the last 2 days has been fine until this morning on the way back home from san francisco........doin it just like it was in the first place.....this is really starting to pi55 me off because i didnt spend almost 40k on a truck for it to do this...It only does it on the freeway too between 65-75 mph...So back to the dealer on tuesday it goes.......sorry had to vent!!!

Well I took the truck to the dealer about 2 weeks ago and they said everything was fixed...so I gave them the benefit of the doubt and took their word for it.....the last week my g/f has had the truck and said it was doing it again.......but there was no knocking sound just a bunch of white smoke....i figured she was exagerating it a bit....well everything the last 2 days has been fine until this morning on the way back home from san francisco........doin it just like it was in the first place.....this is really starting to pi55 me off because i didnt spend almost 40k on a truck for it to do this...It only does it on the freeway too between 65-75 mph...So back to the dealer on tuesday it goes.......sorry had to vent!!!

Got mine in for black/wht smoke as of yesterday.

I will give ya'll the rundown on Mon. when they tell me what's wrong with it.....

p.s. it has a whopping 1695 mi. on it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif

Sorry to hear that NorCal 2500HD.

My pickup (knock on wood) has been fine since they installed and removed the Data Collector. I have been VERY concerned about where I get my fuel. I think that may have been a factor. Hope all gets better SOON.

Carl

i just turned 9k miles yesterday.....i thought it might have been the edge/attitude so i left that off for about a week and a half after i got it back from the dealership....still did it we shall see what the dealer says on tuesday when i take it back tuesday....


Thanks Guys,


Brian

I too have been very careful about the fuel I use... My Bump, cough, and spit has not returned either. Just finnished a round trip to LA as well at average speed of 67mph.

Have they done the ECM re-flash that just came out on Sept. 10, 2004?


There are four items listed in the TSB about possible problems with the LLY. Parking lot idle surge, smoking both white and dark, engine noise about 1800 to 2000 rpm and it seems like something else I can't remember now.


Anyway, mine was doing the parking lot surge thing, and I had it do the white smoke thing a couple of times after sitting at idle for quite a while to warm up. I got the flash done last week and the surge seems to be gone, I've not tried letting it sit and idle for a long time to see if it will smoke. Just seat of the pants, it seems to have a bit better low end response in 1st gear as well.

NORCAL2500. Are you using stanadyne additive? My truck has not had problem's since I started using additive. I also fill up & certain locations now. I also recommened you look into the new update runs a lot better. Any question you may have ask SOCALDIESELTECH, he works on my truck. Good luck.

I beleive when i took the truck in 2 weeks ago they reflashed the computer......As far as additives....Ive looked everywhere around here and cant find it. Went to chevy dealership and they dont have it either. Im up for any ideas at this point right now.....


I fuel up at the local fueling station which has a pretty good turnover rate so who knows if its the fuel or not....


But what in the fuel would cause it to do this and not throw any codes??

NorCal,


A couple of thoughts here...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


You say that the stealer reflashed the computer two weeks ago, well the release date on the TSB with the flash was just 10 days ago. I had to get dmaxalliTech to post the pertinent info and show it to my stealer before they could even locate the information. Double check on the re-flash.


There have been quite a few folks have problems with bad fuel and the trucks don't throw codes. GM is now pushing the dealers to do a vastly too simplified test for bad fuel before addressing any injector problems on the LLY, see Georgecls's post about that.


The additive route is definitely worth a try in my book.

Well, a little over 24 hours ago I said that the truck was running fine. Just got a call from my wife. She said that it was running REAL bad so she turned around, call the service department and drove it to the shop running bad. Hope they got some codes this time. I am waiting for a call as we speak.


Carl

Have they done the ECM re-flash that just came out on Sept. 10, 2004?


There are four items listed in the TSB about possible problems with the LLY. Parking lot idle surge, smoking both white and dark, engine noise about 1800 to 2000 rpm and it seems like something else I can't remember now.


Anyway, mine was doing the parking lot surge thing, and I had it do the white smoke thing a couple of times after sitting at idle for quite a while to warm up. I got the flash done last week and the surge seems to be gone, I've not tried letting it sit and idle for a long time to see if it will smoke. Just seat of the pants, it seems to have a bit better low end response in 1st gear as well.





Zeeb,


I was not aware of a TSB for this reflash, do you know the number??


I've been waiting to get it. All I know is of a "document number" which I received from Aaron at Edge. I've got an appointment next week for some minor warranty stuff and I'd like to have a TSB number for the SM at the local stealer. Thanks!

Steve,


On looking closer, it's not a TSB, but a PI, don't know what that means, programming instruction maybe? It seems to cover NorCal's problem.


PI# PIP3101


Is it the number you got from Aaron?


Anyway, dmaxalliTech posted it for me in this thread about 2/3 the way down the first page. My SM had to do some digging on his computer to come up with it.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14875&KW=dmaxalliTech


Edited by: Zeeb

Wife got a call from service dept. about 4:30. Tech got the truck to "Stumble , Knock and Smoke". At least it happened to them. Do not know if it showed any codes. The tech told my wife that they just got a Service Bulletin dated 9/16/04 that covered this problem. Has anybody heard of this bulletin? If I can get the TSB # I will pass it on.

Local Chevy dealer called today. They said it threw codes and was one or two bad injectors. They will fix under warranty. And yes, they have heard of this there bofore. That is why I took it to that particular one.

However, they of course gotta order the injectors......zzzzzzzzz

Edited by: av8rbri

the SM where i go just informed me that the re-calibration fix was stopped as it wasnt fixing the problems and they were looking into everything else in regards to the injectors instead and usually replacing everything... anyone else hear about that ?

Well it seemed to fix the parking lot surge on mine.


Sounds like we need to ask dmaxalliTech, or GMCSID or one of the techs who might have access to the GM computer stuff.


You wanna post it over there?

good idea, will do right now

Norcal2500HD, I know what is wrong with your truck. I would strongly suggest trying the additive. I can just about guarantee it will work PM me and I can send you some.

Well, had the pickup back for a whole 10 min. when it started again (Stumble, Knock and Smoke). The service department gave me the SI that was for this condition Doc ID # 1550216 #PIP3129A. It is called the "04-05 6.6 LLY Smoke, Fuel Knock, Surge and High Injector Balance Rates etc." This reflash did not work. It is back in the shop and they are putting the Data Recorder back on. It NEVER showed codes.

Carl

That's a different number than the one I got from dmaxalliTech...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Check my post above and it's got a link to the info he posted on PI# PIP3101

Well, had the pickup back for a whole 10 min. when it started again (Stumble, Knock and Smoke). The service department gave me the SI that was for this condition Doc ID # 1550216 #PIP3129A. It is called the "04-05 6.6 LLY Smoke, Fuel Knock, Surge and High Injector Balance Rates etc." This reflash did not work. It is back in the shop and they are putting the Data Recorder back on. It NEVER showed codes.

Carl

exactly what i get with no codes either, especially that dam fuel knock crap - i go back in next tuesday, will keep you posted on the findings

Zeeb: Are you sure about the PIP3101 number?

I found your post above, dated 9/20/04 at 3:53 PM and clicked on the link. The note from dmaxalliTech dated 9/13/04 at 1:10 PM shows "#PIP3129 - (Sep 10, 2004)". I was unable to find a reference to PIP3101. But then again, I have a hard time finding things in the store even when they are on a shelf right in front of me.

Am I doing something wrong, or did you possibly mix the number up with the code numbers?

Thanks.

BH,


My bad.


Looks like there are two reference numbers on that thread. The first one is posted by Greg and is copied from a post on the page. It refers to the 3101 number.


As the thread went on and I asked Eric to post the GM stuff, it says 3129. I copied that and took it to my stealer and left it with him. I guess I should have read it more closely.


Sorry about causing the confusion...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


edit info:


tbone did post the question about whether or not it should be done over on the "Ask The Tech" section. DmaxalliTech said it should be done in any case or Tech assist would not help with any further diagnosis of the problems it is supposed to address.Edited by: Zeeb

socaldieseltech,


Please tell me how this or maybe I should say the problems with my truck can be a fuel problem as in bad fuel?


Mine has been doing this for so long I can make it smoke at will. I am not talking A LITTLE SMOKE but so much smoke it will close the 5 freeway. Loud injector knocking and a cloud of black and white smoke.


To make it smoke just drive on the freeway at speeds over 50 when the truck is started for the first time any day or pull a heavy load at just about any speed.


To stop it from smoking, pull over and let it idle for ten mins and get back on the freeway.


To keep it from smoking drive around town to get it good and warm first letting it idle a lot and it doesn't smoke on the freeway.


The truck just got back from a 2,000 mile trip filling it from many different stations and only smoked once when my friend didn't let it warm up first. He said he pulled off the freeway and waited a few mins and it ran like a top.


This has been going on since it was a few days old and about 700 miles. The dealer has tried to repair it and GM is now replacing the truck with a 05 that will be here in a couple of weeks. I have 10,000 miles on it now and it still runs like crap!


I also have a list of eight guys that sent me emails stating the same problems. I am sure GM will get a fix for this but as of now I don't know of one.


I don't think that smoking and injector knock is being caused by the fuel if it is only an on and off thing.





Dennis

Aluminator,


I have the exact same problems ( reason why I started this thread ). What did you have to do to get GM to replace your truck? Today I am going to get some fuel addative and see if that helps any..if not Im gonna drive the truck off a cliff and report it stolen.......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Aluminator, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. You say your truck just got back from a 2000 mile trip, how much of it was in CA? I will venture to guess not much. I know the exact problem you are having. I have experienced it myself in customer's vehicles. I would also guess that the other people that have e-mailed you with similar problems live in CA or TX. OK, so now to the answer to how is this fuel related, I'm not a fuel expert nor do I claim to be, but I can relay to you what I have been told by the General. Apparently we (CA) have low sulfur fuel, or ultra low sulfur fuel. I was told that when some fuel suppliers remove the sulfur (lubrication) from the fuel, they do not suppliment with other lubricants, resulting in low sulfur=low lubricating fuel. So the result is that at times, injector tips will stick in their bores, and fuel is dumped into the cylinder, unregulated. So far we have been adding stanadyne and it is "fixing" the problem. Thats all I have for now. I'm sorry I don't have more info on this, I will pass it along as I receive it. DURAMAX1 can vouch for the fact that the additive fixed his problem. ALUMINATOR, I'm surprised that no dealers have been able to fix your problem for you. We were on it as soon as the problem started happening. I know that GM always blames everything on fuel , I was wondering how the other manufacturers are with fuel requirements, if anyone has any input.

Oh yeah, ALUMINATOR, when referring to your problem I know that when you say "black smoke" you mean "BLACK SMOKE"!!!!!

To all,

#2 injector showed higher number than the rest. It is getting replaced Fri. Hope that helps the problem. I will ask about filters, additives at that time. My fingers are crossed.

Carl

socaldieseltech,


It still seems strange to me why GM hasn't given me some to try. You are right about most of the guys I have talked to are from CA but not all! If the trucks are going to need stanadyne to run I will be damed if I pay for it! GM knows that kind of fuel we have and building an engine that will not run on it will cost them a ton of money.


I would call it an injector problem and not a fuel problem cause most of the engines run fine. Mine is the #8 injector not the other 7 that work fine. They even replaced it and it is still the same. Try moving the number 8 to a different cyl and I would bet money that the one placed in the number 8 hole does the same thing!!


I think the standyne is just masking the real issue. How many millions of diesels run fine on CA fuel? even 90% of the LLY's





Norcal 2500hd- Send me a pm with your phone number


DennisEdited by: ALUMINATOR

Hey man, don't take it out on me, I understand you're frustrated , I would be too. Norcal2500hd's truck is probably fine now that he's using stanadyne. I've replaced injectors also when this problem first came out, and it didn't fix the problem, but I put the additive and it fixed it.

so if the problem is indeed poor fuel quality which i dont doubt we have a problem with here in ca - does it really matter where we get our fuel ? if its all crap then it wont matter, well just have to keep adding additive to help out until we get better fuel ? or am i wrong on this and some stations will have better fuel ? on a side note, the deal with the sulfur makes sense, in ca we have all these emissions crap everywhere that federal doesnt have, so im assuming the federal gas outside of the west coast is a lot better ?

Aluminator- My #8 is also bad. Dealer never did get back to me on injector replacement. However, the rough idle and smoke dissappeared for about a month. Now its back and shes going back to the dealer today. This is getting old.

How about Off-road diesel? Time to stockpile?

So far so good, engine seems to be running a lot smoother and its also quieter.....this might just be the fix that some of us are looking for.......

Found this site with the help of Aaron at EDGE products...God, I thought I was the only one with issues........Knocking, smoking, and surging.....That pretty much sums it up......I see by everyone else's comments, this happens often. Southern Louisiana and price about a buck 85 for a gallon....Like clock work, everyday, between 160 and 185 degrees, knocking, surging and a bit of white smoke....Never fails....Same intersection about 7 miles from the house.....Anyways, I bring it to the dealership monday.....We'll see if they're clueless....Has anyone had any problems with the dealers not knowing anything about this problem?

socaldieseltech,


Please forgive me if it sounded like I was going off on you!! That is the last thing I would ever do. Thanks for the info and who knows, when I get my 05 in the next couple of weeks I might have to put the stanadyne in it like the rest of you.





Nate, Sorry to hear they didn't get it fixed. Have you tried the stanadyne that "might fix it" You can bet GM is working hard to fix this problem but it seems to keep popping up from coast to coast.





Michael, I have been told that offroad in the same fuel with a red die. If it was better I would drain my boat tank. LOL





nico27mp, This seems to be the place to keep updated for the problem we seem to have. If all you guys would take a second and email me with your problem and what you have done so far to get it fixed I will put ya on my list on LLY's that seem to have the same problem. Then if somebody finds a dealer that has a fix and sends it to me I will make sure everybody hears about it.


I am not a lawyer but a hard working carpenter that would love to help keep your "baby" running well.





Dennis dlconstruction@cox.net

Thanks Dennis....For a while, I had a ton of crap running though my head about the Edge products and the validity of their chips...i thought I melted something...I'm not even hard on it....Anyways, thanks again..


Nick

Got mine back today for a bad #7 injector.
Of course, it was under warranty -- 1695 mi. when it got towed in.

Runs fine now as it should.....

Tell you the truth, the service advisor really squealed like a pig when he said he has seen this before on some rigs that came in there. He said that he is hearing that it's a manufacturing defect in the F/Injectors themselves.....?

Running stock now and no problems. The usual route to work was interrupted by a smooth running, quiet diesel that I wanted in the first place. The Edge is sitting on the couch now and might get sent back. I have determined that the Edge was causing the problems.

UPDATE: #7 was bad in mine. Took 6 days [Sat. - Thur.]
Drove great for all of ~70-75 MI when I got it back.
Same damn thing again this a.m. Took it back to the dealer.
Mon. they will look at it.

Service guys there all say this has been a problem -- bad injectors.

They told me 'you shoulda seen when they first came out......' .....'up to a month-6wks. for injectors to arrive.......'

Beginning to think that there are quite a few Duramax Lemons. This is just too coincidental.

It is really freakin' embarrasing going by another diff. make diesel, [Ford or Dodge], only to have it sputter, knock, smoke up a slight hill.....

I love the truck, but if they cannot fix it EVER, then I have no choice but to pursue lemon law and buy a Dodge or
Ford. On second thought, just a Dodge.

Aluminator, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. You say your truck just got back from a 2000 mile trip, how much of it was in CA? I will venture to guess not much. I know the exact problem you are having. I have experienced it myself in customer's vehicles. I would also guess that the other people that have e-mailed you with similar problems live in CA or TX. OK, so now to the answer to how is this fuel related, I'm not a fuel expert nor do I claim to be, but I can relay to you what I have been told by the General. Apparently we (CA) have low sulfur fuel, or ultra low sulfur fuel. I was told that when some fuel suppliers remove the sulfur (lubrication) from the fuel, they do not suppliment with other lubricants, resulting in low sulfur=low lubricating fuel. So the result is that at times, injector tips will stick in their bores, and fuel is dumped into the cylinder, unregulated. So far we have been adding stanadyne and it is "fixing" the problem. Thats all I have for now. I'm sorry I don't have more info on this, I will pass it along as I receive it. DURAMAX1 can vouch for the fact that the additive fixed his problem. ALUMINATOR, I'm surprised that no dealers have been able to fix your problem for you. We were on it as soon as the problem started happening. I know that GM always blames everything on fuel , I was wondering how the other manufacturers are with fuel requirements, if anyone has any input.

not 1 single problem since i have added the stanadyne..................

glad that is working for you norcal2500hd.

Well, my weekend was ruined buy a amber glow of an engine light this afternoon. Barely made it down to autozone to put it on the scanner. P0193, P0118, and a third, that defines as " fuel pressure regulator, 1 control circut. It was loud, was banging into gear while up and down shifting, and a light surge. Maybe I wont stand up my date with the dealership monday....Help anyone?