Finally took delivery of 5 gallons of Trans-Synd from Johnson and Towers Allison of Mt. Laurel today. Was kind of suprised to find that it is made by Castrol. Not disappointed, just didn't expect them to be the supplier. I guess someone has to make it!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Interesting ... Jim

Actually, Castrol is a very capable company when it comes to engineering lubricants. The marketing side of the company left some of the public with a bad impression of the name Castrol when they produced a Group III engine oil for automobiles and called it a "Synthetic" motor oil. Prior to this event, all synthetic oils used Group IV and Group V basestocks. The whole definition of the make-up of synthetic oil ended up in court, Castol on one side and some other oil companies on the other side. I think that whole incident still haunts the company today. I am not sure if the corporate make up of Castrol is the same today as it was 10 years ago. I seem to remember that some of the company was spun off.


With regard to Transynd, I believe Castrol had an existing product that closely matched the specifications that Allison developed for Transynd. Castrol probably tweaked it slightly in order to have Allison award the contract to them. For some technical parameters associated with Transynd, follow this link:


http://www.castrolhdl.com/Common/PDS/TranSynd-PDS.pdfEdited by: OC_DMAX

Uniquely, the Allison (Castrol) Trans-synd fluid is an exclusive product to Allison and only available from Allison dealers and service agencies and not the traditional Castrol Distribution network. This is different from other readily available Castrol transmission fluids and was specifically formulated to meet Allison's TES-295 specification and test.

However BP Lubricants (which now owns Castrol) offers Autrans Syn 295, essentially the same product that does pass the TES-295 Spec and test. No other Oil Company has been able to pass the obstacle of the the TES-295 spec and test (either due to expense or access to the test rig). If you can find a BP lubricants distributor, it is available in cases (6 gallons/case), 5 gal. pails and drums(!)

An excellent product as alternative is Chevron's Chevron Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid Heavy Duty. If this link works: https://www.cbest.chevron.com/msdsServer/controller?module=com.chevron.lubes.msds.bus.BusPD SList&language=&country=&region=NA&isLoginPage=true&Token=PDSHOME&searchScreen=Y
enter the following product code to search for the product data sheet - 226718
This product has not been through the test rig and therefore is not approved for the TES-295 spec and if your warrantee requires a TES-295 approved fluid be considerate of this fact. Nevertheless it has been formulated specifically by Chevron for this use and is an outstanding product and will likely be more broadly available. We stock both the BP and Chevron products.

What is the price on the BP Autrans and chevron's new synthetic ATF "heavy duty"??? Are they all in the same ballpark price-wise (as transynd)??


thanks,


jeff

THe Amsoil Torque Drive ATF which was reverse enfgineered and is the very same as Transynd. It runs $107.20 for 5 gallon. Transynd is good stuff no doubt about that but just a little high in cost.

here is a list of all the trans fluids that meet the TES-295 spec ...
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4>
<T>
<TR align=middle bgColor=#003399>
<TD>TES 295 Approval Number </TH>
<TD>Approved Marketer</TH>
<TD>Product Brandname</TH> </TD>
<TR align=middle bgColor=#eeeeee>
<TD>AN-011001</TD>
<TD>Castrol Heavy Duty Lubricants</TD>
<TD>TranSynd</TD></TR>
<TR align=middle bgColor=#dddddd>
<TD>AN-031002</TD>
<TD>BP</TD>
<TD>Autran Syn 295</TD></TR>
<TR align=middle bgColor=#eeeeee>
<TD>AN-031003</TD>
<TD>Cognis Corporation</TD>
<TD>Emgrad 2805</TD></TR>
<TR align=middle bgColor=#dddddd>
<TD>AN-031004</TD>
<TD>International Truck &amp; Engine Company</TD>
<TD>Fleetrite Synthetic ATF</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=3

For those of you in the Pacific Northwest, I just had my transmission flushed, filter changed and filled with Transynd at Pacific Torque in Seattle. They treated me as a customer, fitted me into their schedule so I could waithttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifand the cost was reasonable @ $250.00 complete.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Great job!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Bob

You may know this ...but anyway.....the allison transmission that GM has put in your truck was design to use Dextron III trans fluid...there is no special fluid required. If you want to spend the extra money okay, but it's not needed.

rtquig,

That's where I bought mine!

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/allisonfluid/images/DSCN2019.jpg

You may know this ...but anyway.....the allison transmission that GM has put in your truck was design to use Dextron III trans fluid...there is no special fluid required. If you want to spend the extra money okay, but it's not needed.


These are not your average truck owners around here Scotthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I believe that TranSynd is nothing more than the Castrol synthetic transmission fluid they sold in the past and still sell. I have used their synthetic trans fluid because of customer demand and have converted every one of those customers to Mobil 1 trans fluid. Mobil 1 just blew them away as far as longevity, heat disapation, lubrication, and it didn't look yellow after 20K miles. I have no proof of this, only a suspission. I don't trust Castrol, i think they make some great dino blends, i think they lie like a rug. I think they are way behind synthetic development. I just sent them an email asking if the 15-40 4X4 Syntec Blend HD truck oil was ok for my Duramax and recieved a stupid exact copy of the label on the back of the bottle.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif It didn't tell me sh.t. Mobil on the other hand gave me an in depth answer to my question about their oil.


mike

We sell the BP Autran 295 in pails for about $22.00/gallon in 5 gallon pails ($110) and it meets the TES-295 spec. We sell the Chevron Synthetic HD ATF for $18.86/gallon ($94.30/pail).

These products are suitable for backwards compatible use in Mercon/Dexron III spec'd transmissions just as many others mentioned in other posts, Amsoil, etc.

Allison parts houses can charge a premium over what you can buy the alternative TES-295 fluid from a BP distributor. I have a feeling that all the "approved" products are identical and probably identically sourced from Cognis.(Castrol/BP is not likely the actual manufacturer). I also have reason to believe it is not the same product as any previously available Castrol transmission fluid nor built on such a product.
If you are concerned about mainting a TES-295 spec warrantee use a product on the TES-295 approved list. Otherwise you can use a Synthetic Mercon/Dexron III from a company you feel comfortable with at a savings over Transynd.

The only thing special about Transynd is that it is the result of Allison's desire for a product that would drive sales through their own distribution channel and the TES approval process was constructed to limit competitve products. Transynd's availablity is restricted to Allison channel distribution and not available from any Castrol distributor.

I wasn't trying to start a discussion on the pro's and con's of Transynd, just suggesting a company that deserves to be looked at should someone in the Seattle area want to have their transmission serviced with Transynd. I was impressed by the way I was treated and the work performed in a facility that services mostly big rigs.


Bob

I believe that TranSynd is nothing more than the Castrol synthetic transmission fluid they sold in the past and still sell. I have used their synthetic trans fluid because of customer demand and have converted every one of those customers to Mobil 1 trans fluid. Mobil 1 just blew them away as far as longevity, heat disapation, lubrication, and it didn't look yellow after 20K miles.


mike

Mike, Is it okay to make the transition from the Dexron III to the Mobil 1 by using the drain-but-not-flush method when changing as I have seen expounded elsewhere?
Are the fluids compatable?

We are towing quite a bit in the Sierras and PNW and would like to work on trying to reduce the temps when pulling long 6% grades on 90+ degree days? Sounds like the Mobil 1 may help keep things cooler.

Bill

Mobil 1 is compatable with regular Dexron fluid. On certain vehichles we even use Mobil 1 engine oil mixed with Dexron 111/Mercon blend.


mike

Mike,


Can Mobil 1 be added to a mix of Transynd and Dextron III?


Ron

Ron


I have never tried that mix. I cannot say to do that. In my experience i know that Dexron and Mobil 1 are fine mixed, but adding another mix to that might be questionable. I would not do it.


mike

Mike,


OK--to error on the safe side--what is the procedure for an allison flush?


Ron

I think Hoot had a detailed write up on that.


mike

I think Hoot had a detailed write up on that.


mike





I did a search and didn't find a detailed procedure to flush the alli. Can a complete flush of trans &amp; converter be done w/o removal or drilling a hole in the converter?

Check my sig. You accomplish it by disconnecting one of the transmission lines and putting an extension hose on it and into a bucket. You run the truck (two people, one watching under while the other has their hand on the ignition key).

We add fluid and start the truck up... letting it pump out a gallon ... add another gallon and let it pump more... than top it off.Edited by: hoot

Thanks Mike,





I am familiar with Hoot's method--I thought there was a method you employed at your shop.


Ron

Just to be clear... I do not take credit for the Hoot method. It works great. Some shops may have a machine but this way is so easy.

I put the text together from a bunch of postings other people put up.... I did mine later on.

Now the EGT hoot method was mine http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Star.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Thanks hoot! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif You still deserve credit for keeping it all together and available for others to find it and benefit from it. Much appreciated!!!

I use an air hose regulated on low pressure screwed into the mainline pressure port. I leave it there for a while and come pretty close to getting it all out.


mike

mike,


please describe the location of the mainline pressure port and fitting size? thanks!

Mainline pressure port is on the bottom of bellhousing. You will need ninesixteenths socket to remove it(it has an o ring). I don't know what size it is but i do know it is not metric. ( the only 2 things on the Allison that are not metric is this pressure port plug and rear flange bolt). You will need Kent-Moore fitting J-45056 which adapts to eighth in pipe thread. No one has been able to tell me the thread size of the pressure port plug, not even Allison.


mike

Mike,


Thanks!


Where does the fluid drain from when the low air pressure is applied to the mainline pressue port? One of the cooler lines or what?

Drop pan and remove sump filter. Fluid will come out suction hole where sump filter goes in.


mike

Another reason to drop the pan is there is still about 2 quarts of ATF in it after you pull the plug and let it drain.

For the novice (i.e. me) what is the benifit of using Transynd? I'm getting the impression from various posts that once you get upwards of 90~100% Transynd in your tranny, there's some noticable improvement, but I don't know what that is.


thanks!

Going the Mobil-1 route myself. I have done one drain and fill and will do the next before I pull my 5er to South Dakota. I used it because it has a great reputation and is easier to get and less expensive than Trans-Synd.

The benifit of a synthetic trans fluid is heat reduction. You will see 20-50* drop. Heat kills and automatic and this is one way to keep the heat down.





Greg

Synthetic? I thot even Dextron III was synthetic ~ am I wrong?

OK - here is what I understand from this thread:
There are two ways to drain/flush the Allison transmission; the method Hoot has outlined and the method where you attach a low-pressure air line to the mainline pressure port.

The method Hoot has outlined involves disconnecting a particular transmission cooler line and running the engine to pump out transmission fluid and replacing it in stages, about a gallon at a time.

The low pressure air connected to the mainline pressure port method requires dropping the transmission pan so the fluid can drain out the sump filter intake port. Don't forget to remove the sump filter first. The mainline pressure port is located on the bottom of the bell housing and you need a special adapter, the Kent-Moore fitting J-45056 which adapts to eighth in pipe thread.

Assumption #1 - The Hoot-outlined method appears to be simpler, less messy and quicker.

Assumption #2 - The low-pressure air method appears to be more efficient with the new &amp; expensive transmission fluid, removing much more old fluid before adding new fluid.

Are these two assumptions correct?

Are there any other considerations that would be nice to know? I have never flushed a transmission before. I also hate getting halfway through a procedure and realizing I need to head to the store for something needed to finish the job.

Thanks!
HBruns

First, if you pull the drain plug on the pan there is not 2 qt's left. There is very little left and not worth the bother. Second, Dexron 111 is about 20 to 30 percent Synthetic. Everytime Dexron is upgraded ( like from Dex 11 to Dex 111) more synthetics are added. This is happening with all trans fluids because more solenoids are used and fluid needs to be more slippery and the lower heat.


mike

more slippery


This is the wrong thing to say. Synthetic is not more slippery, it has less flow resistence and still holds as much or more than mineral based oils.





Greg

Greg


I realize that the words I use sometimes are incorrect but they explain things better. Stepping on a banana peel makes you " more slippery" don't know if it makes you less " flow resistant". http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

Dex is dino based. You always gota go with the weakest link so to speak.


I remember some talk awhile ago of people finding it easier to slip thier trans with amsoil synthetic. The regular one before they came out with the special formulated one. I think this was before the "special alli formulation" and mostly the complaints came from guys running extra power and at the edge of the alli's holding capacity anyway. Seems some thought it was a bit to slippery or more slippery than transynd or regular dextron. The additive package anyway, I know synthetic basestoc isnt really more slippery than dino....


I cant rememeber if anyone though Mobil 1 was in the same boat??? You obviously not have problems with this Mike? If you would get your cooler done you wouldnt have to worry about switching to synthetic to keep the ATF alive in the alli. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Tongue.gif j/k


Only benifit I see to synthetic in a trany is its tolerance to higher heat before breakdown than dino ATF. If you do frequent or more frequent changes with dino you dont really have to worry about killing the fluid. Unless you do something to get her real hot in witchcase synthetic ATF gives you a extra margin of saftey. I like frequent changes in things period though weather they need it or not. Thats why I dont use synthetic in my motor. I use a semi blend in the winter but thats just because I like the lower pour point. Syn is a whole lota $ to dump out all the time.


Personaly I run dino ATF and change the fluid often. Although the decision was much easier since I have acces to free dino ATF.

ratlover


I agree with what you said. We have had problems with certain electronic transmissions slipping with synthetic fluid and had to change back to dino even when the factory called for synthetic to make it work properly. And yes we had the proper clutches in the trans that the manuf. called for.


mike

I have never had a problem with it....mostly because I have never used syn atf, just remember others complaining of issues. I think sdaver was one of em...


I was just wondering if you ran mobil 1 in the allisons sucessfully. Although a built trany is different than a stocker I guess.


I have run Mobil 1 fluids in other stuff and always thought it was topquality stuff. Then again a auto is a finicky creature and it has nothing to do with quality and all about the proper additive package. Stick some ford fluid(or "trick shift") in a 350 and you get some snappy shifts, stick dex into a c4 and pooch of a 302 will slip the clutches faster than a TTS extream tune on a stock alli http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

There are only two good reasons to use synthetic (and they are good reasons!)Resistance to high temperatures (or want to simply inoculate yourself from high temp related failures), or if you want extended drain intervals - use a synthetic. Properly formulated Synthetic ATFs do not necessarily directly reduce temperature significantly, they are just more resistant to high temperatures. A mineral oil may be responsible for higher temeratures because when exposed to higher temps, mineral oil oxidizes and begins to lose it's ability to properly lubricate and cool a transmission, thereby adding more heat stress to the system. If you don't have a temperature problem or you have low mileage use, save your money.

For the Allison trans, a product designated Dexron III will provide the proper specs.

Castrol Trans-Synd (or it's sibling, BP Autrans 295) was designed by Castrol specifically to Allison's specs for their medium to heavy commercial duty transmissions extended warrantee. If you paid for that extended warrantee, then you were required to use only a fluid meeting the TES-295 spec (that extended beyond the basic Dexron III spec) The Castrol version was contracted exclusively to Allison, which provides Allison dealers a nice boost to their sales.
If you don't need a TES-295 Trans fluid (Castrol Transynd or BP Autrans 295) to protect your warrantee, there is simply no reason you have to buy Transynd. It won't perform significantly different than other Synthetic Dexron III fluids. Chevron Synthetic Automatic Heavy Duty Transmission Fluid is a synthetic Dexron III and is one that can be had for under $4.50/quart (in a 5 gal pail). Mobil is also another choice that can be found for less than the Transynd.

If you don't have a temperature problem or you have low mileage use, save your money.
As for more "slippery", this is not what you want to see in an Auto Trans Fluid. There are anti-friction additives that "activate" with the heat of metal to metal contact - not what you want in your transmission. You need specific friction properties for proper operation of the trans as designed by the manufacturer. BTW- This is why additives are not a good idea because the fluids have been specifically engineered to acheive proper shifting. Anyone who thinks they can out-engineer the chemistry of fluids carefully designed by the manufacturers (who have their own self interest on warrantee claims to protect) by dumping in a 12 to 16oz bottle of additive to a variable amount of fluid is throwing their money away and risking unknown consequences.
The manufacturers have all been playing with the specs of their trans fluids, resulting in a divergence of fluids rather than a convergence. Driving this is the fuel economy and emission environment.

First, if you pull the drain plug on the pan there is not 2 qt's left. There is very little left and not worth the bother.


mike

Maybe not all of the tranny pans are built the same. On my stock pan, the plug is in a recess (up from the bottom of the pan) that is raised 1/4 to 3/8 inch. This results in the head of the drain plug not hanging below the bottom surface of the pan. The big surprize was when I dropped the pan. There is a nut welded to the inside of the pan that the drain plug screws in to. This nut is about 1/2 inch tall. So in my pan there is at least 3/4 inch depth of fluid left after pulling the plug. I measured what was left, and it was about 2 quarts, honest!Edited by: Wayne Dohnal

So in my pan there is at least 3/4 inch depth of fluid left after pulling the plug. I measured what was left, and it was about 2 quarts, honest!


I was in my pit with the pan on the extedable jack dohicky and I was taking a few moments maveling to myself how amazed I was to still be clean! This was the cleanest pan drop I had ever done with hardly a smudge of grease on my fingers letalone looking like a murder victim from being coverd in ATF! That was untill the filter fell outa the hole and ploped into the pan 1/2 full of fluid and started pissing everywear. I musta really had a WTF just happend look on my face as I stood dripping with splashed fluidhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Wish I woulda read your post 8 months ago LOLhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

"activate with the heat of metal to metal contact "


ATF does make some fine cutting oil, try it the next time u are drilling holes.

... On my stock pan, the plug is in a recess (up from the bottom of the pan) that is raised 1/4 to 3/8 inch. This results in the head of the drain plug not hanging below the bottom surface of the pan. The big surprize was when I dropped the pan. There is a nut welded to the inside of the pan that the drain plug screws in to. This nut is about 1/2 inch tall. So in my pan there is at least 3/4 inch depth of fluid left after pulling the plug. I measured what was left, and it was about 2 quarts, honest!

Dittos !! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I installed the deep pan on my 03 last weekend and I also measured about 2 quarts in the pan after draining though the plug... Refilled the tranny with a little over 12 quarts of ATF.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

That tranny is pretty thirsty we (eric and I) put in nearly 6 gallons this past weekend,, that converter holds an awful lot of fluid.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifI'm going to switch to transynd and the deep pan this weekend, I'm just not comfortable with disconnecting lines, little springs, etc. described in Hoot's method.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif I checked with the local Allison dealer and they reaffirmed their instructions from Allison are to: drain the fluid; drop the pan; pull internal filter/replace with longer one; put on new deep pan; replace the spin-on filter/magnet(prime filter); fill the tranny with transynd and run for about a minute; drain it again and refill with transynd. Then cycle through gears, check/add fluid to cold mark, drive for a few minutes to allow tranny to heat up, stop, put in park and check hot fluid level. I'm comfortable doing this.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gifAccording to them this will give me roughly a 90%(+-) ratio of transynd to 10%(+-) Dexron III. I don't want to pay $160 for the Allison dealer to do it either. I have access to a lift and tools for $4 an hour (Navy base).


The only difference I see between the 2 procedures is in Hoot's method you run the vehicle for about a minute with the cool return disconnected to get the 1 gallon of old fluid out of the torque converter and the cooler/lines and into a bucket versus Allison's method brings it back to the pan.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gifIf I follow Allison's procedure, run the engine for the 1 minute like Hoot's method, isn't there going to be mostly Dexron III from the converter and cooler in the pan versus in a bucket? Then I could drop that fluid, refill with transynd and go on my merry way? I can't imagine the small percentage of difference I may not achieve will result in a measurable difference in tranny performance.


Am I http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif? Also, should I change the external filter before and after filling/refilling the second time? For $8 I'll likely just spend a filter for insurance. For us mechanically challenged fellers this may be simpler. JJ