I was up in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">British Columbia</st1:place></st1:State> on a forest service road last week and almost lost my new 2004.5 2500HD D/A truck off the road into a ravine. Got into some stuff that I should known better and should have backed off of but you know how hind site is. It would have been tough getting someone to haul the truck back up from lying on its side up against a tree down in a ravine in the middle of no where.


I was going up a hill after a recent rain and the Bridgestone Revo's gummed up with mud and with lots of torque and only three wheels putting power to the ground but going no where. I had less than desirable traction to say the least. Rear-end did a swing to the downhill side while only one front wheel was applying power. The shoulder was giving away so it made for a sticky situation. I had to very gingerly back down the hill while adding tree branches to the ground under the wheels to keep from sliding more.


I was thinking that maybe an upgrade of my "3" wheel drive with a front locking differential. Has anyone added an ARB Air Locker to the front end? Or should I just buy myself a big winch for the front end?


Not to mention staying off of muddy forest service roads.

Tomac and some others run the eaton e locker, much better then the ARB from my off roading backgroung (Jeep/land rover and benz). It will add 4 wheel pull. I vote for the E locker for several reasons, your not doing heavy off roading and ARBs is over prices, by the time you get done paying for the pump, good hoses to supply the air etc your over what a e locker costs. Or if it's out there is the Detroit (Spelling?) elec locker which works as a LSD under normal load (good for the front end) and locks with a push of a button. Also, American axle makes a elec locker for this application.

I assure that all 4 wheels had the same amount torque applied though as a standard diff can function no other way.

I assure that all 4 wheels had the same amount torque applied though as a standard diff can function no other way.


Yes, but it's torque split I believe he's looking for. I.E. More torque to the wheel that has traction.

I assure that all 4 wheels had the same amount torque applied though as a standard diff can function no other way.


Yes, but it's torque split I believe he's looking for. I.E. More torque to the wheel that has traction.

I aggree fully, it is just the way he said 3 wheel drive as true 3wd it is not possible without a locker in one axle. I do have reservations about them in front axle though because of potentail torque steer and steering compontent strain. I feel LSD's are best up there.

No. No. No.


Do you know how a IFS front end is set up or how a selectable locker, a real locker, an open diff and a limited slip work???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


A Limited slip would absolutly suck in front. And yes with an open diff in the front and a locker in the back(with he kinda 1/2 way has) 3wd is exactly what you get. Actaully with a gov lock I would call it 2.75 wheel drive but thats another topic. I'm not in the mood to explain how all the above works but will if anyone wants clarification from me leme know.


Open diff or a selectable locker are the only useable options IMO and I also also believe the only options out there.Edited by: ratlover

No. No. No.


Do you know how a IFS front end is set up or how a selectable locker, a real locker, an open diff and a limited slip work???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif A Limited slip would absolutly suck in front. And yes with an open diff in the front and a locker in the back(with he kinda 1/2 way has) 3wd is exactly what you get. Actaully with a gov lock I would call it 2.75 wheel drive but thats another topic. I'm not in the mood to explain how all the above works but will if anyone wants clarification from me leme know.

Open diff or a selectable locker are the only useable options IMO and I also also believe the only options out there.

Actually I do know how all traction diffs work and why. My statement was a general one about traction devices in front axles. The IFS the GM use severely limits that type of devices you can use because it only disconnects one axle from diff when it 2wd which is a very poor excuse that 17 years later they were still doing it that way (cheaper production cost is real reason) Because of this you have very few choices but if you have a Dodge or a Ford with a live front axle (or a pre 87 GM) you have a lot more viable options open to you. I still maintain that even a selectable locker will put a lot of strain on IFS front end and its geometry when one tire has full torque and the other has none. Straight axles handle these forces better.Edited by: snoman

Not going to make any comment on soid vrs ifs or anything like that becasue it dostn matter. If there was a LSD available for IFS it would suck plain and simple. Why make a general comment about solid front axels when he has IFS and is asking a question about that? Yes a selectable locker will put more stress on a front end than open(any type of locker will in any type of front or rear end) What part of solid front axels handle this better or worse though? And what do you mean by a selectable locker puting alot of strain on its geometry? Please tell me how the hell they should go about disconecting the front driveline?


A selectable locker will introduce the least amount of stress to the front end(or rear end) of anything other than an open diff. With a clutch tupe LSD it is always applying bias, if you have the hubs locked(or dont have hubs to unlock) it will be trying to keep the front wheels turning at the same rate. You shouldnt be locking the front end unless you are in a very traction limited situation so a vast majority of the time(even if you have the hubs locked, dont have hubs, or are or arnt in 4x4) its acting like a open differential witch is the easiest thing there is on parts.


To actually answer your question/comment. First I would say yes, stay off muddy service roads, that would be the cheapest and most effectivehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif But other than that i ran into a simmilar situation. The reason I ran into this situation was becasue I was running an all terain type tire and they actually suck in the mud. I ended up sliding down a road backwards to make a long story short.If I had swampers like i had on my 83 at the time I woulda walked it out like it was nothing. If you need more traction than good off road tires will provide then a selectable locker is the next thing but good tires and a good driver will take you very far.Edited by: ratlover

for youer money put a winch on my .02 worth

I kind of like the winch idea myself...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Although it is possible you might have gotten yourself out with some sort of locker type differential in the front, the likelihood of you sliding clear off the road to begin with is just as good.

Remember, both front wheels being driven at the same RPM and you've got no steering control, add a locker type in the rear end and you go in a straight line.

So as to not start and argument here, by locker I'm referring to any type of differential designed to eliminate wheel spin on one side...

edited for spelling, these da*n computers are ruining my typing and spelling skills...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif
Edited by: Zeeb

There are times when a winch would be very nice indeed and can be had for about the same as a selectable front locker (give or take) Back in the 70's I had a friend in Tenn that had a old Military truck that looked like a kingsize Jeep with a Dodge flat head 6 and it was a 51 module too. It had a front mounted engine driven winch and we would take that thing any where and where it would not go we would winch it and since it was engine driven we could use it as much as we wanted without worring about it overheating and had good line speed too. I would love to have that truck to restore today.