A couple of bits and pieces on the spin on and magnet centering have been muttered about lately so I decided to check it out.


The Filters


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Filters_side_by_side_1.jpg





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Filters_NO_magnet_2.jpg





Now what the muttering is about.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Allison_Magnet.jpg


I should have gotten a better angle on the filter BUT all the holes are open with Magnet in place.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/SPX_Magnet.jpg





The ? Well lets see what comes of this . I'm interested in hearing.I have used both, but the SPX only once.





Mac

It would be interesting if somebody could take the top of the filter with magnet in place and put it in some kind of flow measuring device. Set pressure and etc. See if one flows more or has more fluid pressure drop. Dunno what would happen then


One thing I do know, is as bad as it looks, SPX makes both of the filters and I have used both with no ill effects at all.. Intersted in hearing more feedback from others

The red filter is 1/4 pound heavyer with less paper why? They are designed differently if you look at them. Why? I don't know. SPX is owned by GM. Go figure. I use the SPX, so does Suncoast.


mike

I need to pick anouther Alley filter and I will cut them open.I needed the one I had and I paid a friggen ransom for it in a pinch.





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

maybe I will have to do some cutting tomarrow.. I have both in the garage

i stock them both. I ask the customer which one he wants. Joe Webb figures the SPX flows 16% better. I don't believe the filter ever sees over 80 psi. It filters control main line pressure which is much less than main line pressure at 230 psi or a little higher


mike

Is the goesinsa the holes and the goesoutsa the center? Just lookin' at it, you'd sure think the the fluid going into the filter would suck that magnet down and block the holes on the spx. How rigid is the magnet?


Dennis

If the magnet had direct pressure on it....... would it be able to do it's job? Looks like the Allison filter holes would allow the fluid to swurell (sp) around a good bit, letting the mag do it's job. The SPX filter holes look like they would just push the derbis off the magnet?


Just guessing. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Burner-----------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

If it flows conventional I can't see ,it is early,how the fluid gets past the magnet into the filter.I'm under the impresssion like any filter throught the small holes out through the center. Almost would appear it just bypasses if possible. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


If it were reversed I could see the pressure lifting the magnet to allow flow.


The Magnet is rigid and has good not super holding capacity to the element when installed.


Odd!!


Mac

Just my observation. The mag sticks to the filter pretty good and I havent seen any wierd tracks or patterns showing the fluid it blowing stuff off or anything like that when using the spx, just a uniform film like with the ally filter. Noticed no difference in shifting or performance witch if a filter was restricting things at all with either and would think that any restriction would atleast cause a bit of ally relearning and at worse a bit-o-limp action.


I use what ever Mike or Eric happens to ship mehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


Mac, the ally dosnt have a bypass in the trans does it? if its not getting past spin then you would know in a hurry wouldnt ya???

Odd indeed though but isnt the face of the filter were the mag sits not flat but rounded so it just flows underneath the mag??? Edit: I think i have a few of each, might need to take a peekhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gifEdited by: ratlover

It would be interesting if somebody could take the top of the filter with magnet in place and put it in some kind of flow measuring device. Set pressure and etc. See if one flows more or has more fluid pressure drop. Dunno what would happen then


One thing I do know, is as bad as it looks, SPX makes both of the filters and I have used both with no ill effects at all.. Intersted in hearing more feedback from others

The Baldwin filter looks about the same as the SPX. I called Baldwin and the person I talked to claimed that they flow tested their filter and it flowed just as well as the allison filter with the magnet in place. FWIW, I run the allison filter.

YMMV,

Jim

Ultimate question is which filter is the best one? Personal opinion, or fact?

SPX, Allison, or Baldwin.....?

You know looking at the two filters and then after reading everyones ideas, I have come to the conclussion that Mike L must be right!


Either filter will work and its just up to the idividual as to which one they use, makes sense to me and really isn't that what this forum is all about, so we can all express our ideas. As for me, its really a great learning tool and I appreciate everyones input!


Terry

Thanks for posting that Mac.. i've been wanting to do that myself!


Time to get back on the road to LA....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

We still need to cut them open and see what is the difference. I cannot see still how the fluid gets in the cartridge in the SPX.


The magnet clearly covers the entrance holes. Why?





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

With the magnet over the holes the fluid doesn't have a straight shot into the filter, it has to go over/around the magnet. this may help pull more steel out of the fluid. It may also slow the fluid down a bit before it goes though the element. The slower it runs though the element, the better the filter works. Just some thoughts....


Ox

Slowing the fluid down would create a back pressure. Wouldn't that create some peroformance issues?

Slowing the fluid down would create a back pressure. Wouldn't that create some peroformance issues?


This is how these guys are getting all their work in their shops.Block the holes,smoke the clutches,blame it on the Box.





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif








Edited by: Mackin

I like the red Allison filter better. I would think you don't want flow restriction. I like the clear shot.

Remember guys that we are not hydraulic engineers and I'm sure that there is more to Macs pictures than what we are seeing. The magnet does not actually cover holes in the SPX because the support is tapered. We will eventually get a lot more info on these filters and their design merits.


mike

The SPX does have eight holes as opposed tho the Allison's six.

Both filters have the same taper at the inlet I beg to differ on the holes being pretty well covered from what I seen,certainly restrictive.


I will stick with the Allison filter till I know for sure.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Put a magnet on both filters and blow through them with your mouth. You will get more air through the Ally filter than the SPX. What does that mean? Nothing, or maybe something. We are blowing backwards. Does that make a diffence? Don't know. We need more info and we will get it.


mike

Put a magnet on both filters and blow through them with your mouth. You will get more air through the Ally filter than the SPX. What does that mean? Nothing, or maybe something. We are blowing backwards. Does that make a diffence? Don't know. We need more info and we will get it.


mike








Well ya ,now partially if almost completely block the holes on the Allison spin on and I guess it will be just as hard to blow thru.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Mac you're right about that.

Think about what Mike just said...now picture it...I don't care who ya'r that's funny right there....

What about filter media? Flow is one thing. Possible back pressure. Filtering quality. ????

Are those light rust spots common on the Red spin on filters ?


I just ordered a couple and they looked similar to the one shown


Any issue with using them like this?

If SPX actually makes the Allison why aren't they the same? Why are we buying the SPX versus the Allison? The Allison filter is priced very reasonable from Allison. Later! Frank

Anyone have a flow bench?

Anyone cut open their filters? See waht they look like, after use?

Anyone cut open their filters? See waht they look like, after use?


I have to pick up anouther Allison filter. I will definately cut the two open.





Mac

Just curious. I see fuel filters and what they look like after X amount of milage. Wondering what the trans filters look like. May not see anything at all.

When I cut my Allison open 7500 miles, it looked like it was new. I don't know if I still have it, but if so, I will shoot a picture and post it.

Mine still looked good when I changed it at 10k.

I think do away with the magnet and stick it in the pan along with the stock cheesy one. It just doesnt seem right being there to me.

hmm


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

All fluid has to go through filter. I think the magnet would serve better on the filter. My own opinion.

I'm wondering if the magnet wasn't put there with the intentions that it would be removed at first filter change?

I would think you leave it on as I have never had it be completely clean when changing. There is always some "fuzz" on it.

I wonder if JK has some kind of mag-filter wrap for the filter?

I wonder if JK has some kind of mag-filter wrap for the filter?





Yes. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/AA6_Allison_spin_on.JPG

O.K. I need an explanation for the picture.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Mag filter wrap, too please. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The picture is a look at a trans filter after use and it is cut open to see the effects of that use. But don't ask me what the effects mean. The filter wrap is a halfmoon high-powered magnet pack that attaches to a filter(outside body of filter). The magnet then holds metal debris inside the filter. When it's time to change filters, simply remove the magnet pack and attach to new filter. Filter Mag is one such product, but they are pricey about 115 bucks.


JP

John,


Did that stuff get past the OEM magnet or was it removed. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Thanx Heartbeat Hauler.

Now from A Bear, it must be metal filings on the side.

What about the filter media (internal guts) of the filter? Can anything be seen in it?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/536_Set97_03.jpg


Here are the remains of my last one.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/F3A_Set97_06.jpg


Top down.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/2C1_Set97_02.jpg


The filter.


Hope this helps.

Chuntag; everything looks good. At least as far as my untrained eyes can tell.

Thanx.

P.S. How dod the maget look?

OE magnet was installed...

Yes Sir. It was a little fuzzy, but not much.

haha, greeeeeeat. thanks for the pic now i know how bad mine was. changed the fluid and the spin-on today, cut open the spin on and about !@#! when i saw the filter. it was about the color of charcole, mabey darker. i have a feeling that thing has been on there since the truck left the plant back in 01, i noticed there was a green mark on the side, near the top of the filter, i also noticed the same color green mark on the tranny above the pan. just hit 50k miles..... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif i may just run back to work and grab that sucker outa the garbage and snap a pic now that i know what i do.

now, how do you y'all think that this much restriction would adversly affect the overall performance of the tranny? also being as the allison is a 'thinking or learning' type machine do you think it may have tried to overcome or work around the flow restriction due to the dirty filter? if so, how long will it take to work its way back to 'normal' after installing the new filter? or is this even an issue.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/9B5_Untitled-2.jpg

CB_Rocket


You need a converter

haha, short and to the point, thanks mike!!! you shoulda just said i need a suncoast3 that would be a better assertion! but i already know this, so what makes you think i need a converter? sorry, im a pretty big newb when it comes to troubleshooting transmissions.

CB_Rocket


The TCM can not compensate for pressure loss. It can control " Control Main Pressure " which is pressure going through the spin on filter and into the valve body that feeds clutches. Your spin on looks pretty well clogged up. Changing it is a band aid. Where did the contamination come from? " Alex, I'll take torque converters for 1295.00" The converter is a big weak link because of design. Transgo addresses the transmission valve body and C2 piston. Suncoast has addressed the converter and some killer clutches to compliment the Transgo kit. ATS uses a Copilot that works kinda like the Transgo but give you some different options that are pretty neat.


mike

If you weren't having problems before you changed it I wouldn't worry about it. How many transmissions do you know of that have a spin on filter? There are many vehicles running the highways that have 100,000 miles on them and the dipstick has never seen the light of day. My $.02

Eddie it's just that type of attitude that makes John Deere heavy equipment transmissions *Require* that expensive traynsd. These transmissions have but one thing to maintain...... the fluid. If it gets dirty from wear the filters catch it... and begin to restrict the fluid. All that it ever needed is a simple oil and filter here and there.

I guess I was trying to say that unless CB_Rocket was having problems he wouldn't need to replace his TC. I know they need maintainence and mine gets it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

the only problems i started having as of late, was the hard shifting 1-2 and 2-3, only when cold. thats what got me thinking, reading and worrying about what was goin on.


mike, as far as the contamination im sure it's because thats 50k miles worth of crap built up in there. i'll never buy another used truck without doing an LOF right away, even if the stealer says it was just done..... im not noticing any real difference in the overall behavior after changing the tranny fluid and filter on saturday.

CB


The contamination I think I see in your picture came from within. The torque converter clutch is known for failing, and the C2, C3, and C4 are also suspect in any given Allison. Nothing a Suncoast can't handle.


mike

i'll besure to cut the this filter open in 5k and see what it looks like, ill get a better idea of whats going on in there after that. 10-4 on the suncoast. it will come in due time.