My first diesel is due in this week. I've read all the fuel recommendation posts etc that I can find and I'm now on a quest to be a good father to my "new baby" finding a reputable fuel supply station.


For the past couple months I've scouted the local gas stations to see which ones had commercial vehicles at the pumps on a frequent basis I used this info as an indicator of frequent fuel turnover. This narrowed the list to about 5 stations. I stopped at each station and asked the manager and/or owner about the quality of their diesel fuel and got blank stares from each one of them. Only after I clarified my questions and asked if it was #2 premium or what did they agree that it was (as if they were telling me what I wanted to hear). None of these stations had a cetane number on the pump or could tell me what the cetane level of their fuel was.


Am I being to anal? (I'd like to stay with the stock filter for a few months to avoid any warranty headaches)


Am I asking the right questions??


Any tips on what else to look for or what to ask or on how to find good local fuel??


BP/Amoco, Sunoco, Speedway, Marathon, Mobil are the big suppliers in this area.


Thanks in advance for any help!!

I got the same question. I've got a 3500 4x4 D/A CC LB dually on order and I've been looking around to decide where to fill it up in the Columbus, OH area.

I got the same question. I've got a 3500 4x4 D/A CC LB dually on order and I've been looking around to decide where to fill it up in the Columbus, OH area.


The stations I stopped at were totally clueless as to what they were selling. I'd like to know the simple stuff like when/if there is winter additive in their fuel, cetane level and whether it's #2 premium or not.

I try to hit the truck stops along the local interstate whenever possible. Most are messy as hell, but you will normally find they have filters on the dispensing lines, pump hellaciously fast, and the diesel never sits in their tanks for long! I would steer clear of "out of the way" stations that don't have a lot of traffic.


There are guys on here that can talk the techie side of diesel fuel. JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

have filters on the dispensing lines





I never thought of looking for the filters on the pumps! That's a good idea - that's why I like this site so muchhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


Seems to me that as long as the dispensing filters are maintained at the station level then that would be like having an extra fuel filter on the truck, although not as efficient I'm sure but every little bit helps.


I don't mind the truck stops but the wife isn't too fond of them.

I think I'd be worried more about filtration than cetane rating. Just add secondary fuel filtration and try not to worry too much about it.


Dennis

Thanks Dennis - you always have a "don't sweat it too much" reminder for us newbies.

I'd like to put on a secondary filter system but, quite honestly this new truck is going to stiffle my "toy purchase" finances for awhile (not to mention any mod.'s). I've done some research and checked Eric's site toying around with getting a secondary filter system. In yours (or anybody elses) humble opinion, what's the most efficient but economical (that means cheap http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif) secondary filter system for someone who is not doing alot of heavy towing or hotrodding but just wants to give their DMax a little more protection?

sko..., Mama JJ wasn't too fond of the truck stops either until she started getting hit on by guys wanting to know about the Dumax when she stopped to fuel up with the 5ver in tow! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Dang trucker tramp! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif But the truck stops do tend to have the freshest diesel fuel. JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Edited by: JJs DuMax

Do non-truckers (those without MI fuel cards)pay the price displayed at the pumps? Do those with fuel cards get a reduction from the displayed price??

PS - Don't know if this is just a MI thing or not???

I only have 4 stations to choose from. The one I go to is on the main drag and is the newest station. Just had tanks replaced 3 years ago.

skoryaro2,


You've got some good advice so far, high volume, truck stops, filters on the pumps. In my case the station I use most has stickers on the pumps during the Winter specifying that they run Winter blend with Cetane and lubricity boosters pre-added to the fuel.


If the station manager where you want to go doesn't know much about it, you may want to question others in the area.


As far as secondary filters are concerned, GM has got a big push on to examine fuel whenever there is a question of an injector problem with the LLY's. Do a few searches and you might be surprised. With that and warranty concerns in mind, check with your SM and see what his feelings are. Mine is kind of anal so I got the official Racor kit which was developed in conjunction with GM, and the product bulletin for it even tells you to consult a Racor distributor or GMC truck dealer for questions or installation assistance.


My SM okayed the Racor install after seeing the bulletin. Whatever brand or type of secondary filter setup you decide on, my personal opinion is that you bite the bullet and get the thing installed ASAP.


But that's just my $.02Edited by: Zeeb

Here's a link I found months ago on the VW TDI forum about premium diesel stations. Alot of the updates are pretty old, so use at your own risk. There's some info on stations that sell biodiesel as well.

FWIW: Premium Diesel Stations (http://www20.brinkster.com/beowulf9/tdi/PremDiesel/PremDiesel.asp?View=FULL)

I stumbled upon a station in Havre, Montana about six weeks ago that had diesel labeled "Premium". I forget exactly what additive they claimed was added. There were quite a few trucks filling up there, so I ASSumed it was fresh fuel. Was good peace of mind when I was so far away from home & worried about getting good fuel. Dumb luck, I guess.

Another thing to check is the tank size. I always try to buy my fuel from stations where the diesel tank is bigger than the gas tank. Learned that lesson buying on the cheap early on, realized the fill could be trouble when i saw the tank sizes posted, it's required by law along with the color of the lids and covers. The gas tanks were 15,000 gal, and the diesel a mere 5,000 gal. Took several tanks and a new fuel filter to cure the stumbles.

Zeeb, can you post the bulletin or a thread we can access. One pretty much has to "spoon feed" the dealers before they will do anything on these trucks. JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

JJ,


That's the case with my stealer exactly. Try this link, it's from Oregon Fuel Injection and is the actual Racor Bulletin on the first page with installed pics from OFI on the second page:


http://www.o-f-i.com/sec/Racor_Fuel_Filter_Duramax.pdf


edit info:


On further reflection, those install pics are probably Racor's...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


I talked to Racor since the spacing of the components on the pics didn't match my truck quite right. Racor told me the kit was installed on an '03 CC long bed truck, mine's an EC, so there's not as much room between the tank and the mount point for the filter.


I don't think they even recommend trying to install it on a RC, IIRC.Edited by: Zeeb

Thanks for all the info.

Zeeb,
Question re: the Racor filter link you posted above. Looks to me that this is a pre-OEM filter. Is it really necessary to have a fuel heater and water seperator in addition to the OEM? I know this is probably a matter of opinion but wouldn't a pre-OEM filter that is a solids filter only do the trick?? Or is water a bigger problem than solids contamination? Why the extra fuel heater?? What are others using that just require breaking into the pre-OEM fuel line with no additional wiring etc?

skory,


Well there are lots of opinions about what is the best configuration, filter size and pre or post OEM to consider.


You specifically mentioned warranty concerns...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Most of the problems you might have over warranty issues revolve around your SM. What he's comfortable with, more so than what GM will give you grief over. The other part is that no matter what your SM says, that doesn't mean GM will buy off on it should push come to shove.


I got the Racor because it was developed in conjunction with GM. Most of what you see in the kit was at GM's behest. Your OEM filter has a heater and a WIF sensor wired into the DIC, so does this because GM wanted it that way. I happen to think both are good ideas, but that's my opinion and others here have different opinions.


Racor also uses a 10 micron filter for the pre-OEM since they feel that a two stage process is more effective than running a pair of 2 micron filters, others here differ.


There's no cut and dried answer to your question about which setup is best, you'll have to do some research and make up your own mind about what, if anything, to do about secondary filtration.


The only reason I chimed in was because of your voiced warranty concerns which mirror my own.


Get out your reading glasses and do a few searches, there is lots of information posted here on the subject...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Been reading away........

If I got this right, a pre OEM filter like the Nicktane filters smaller particles than does the OEM, so basically it is a primary filter when installed and the OEM would only filter anything the Nicktane misses and any water.

A Recor Filter setup like Zeeb has does the same as the Nicktane but also takes care of most of the water before the EOM, has a fuel warmer and is connected to the DIC.

In both cases it almost seems like having the OEM is a waste because the fuel is filtered more effeciently by the pre-OEM filters.

Does anyone manufacture a post OEM filter that installs in the engine compartment right after the OEM? IMHO it seems that it would be an easier install and more protected than an under the truck mount? I suppose the problem you run into here though would be a more difficult air bleed proceedure if it is even possible.

I'll keep searching and learning......

Edited by: skoryaro2

You're a little off here.


My setup uses a 10 micron pre-filter and water trap. The OEM filter is a 2 micron (by industry standards, I don't want to start a fight here) so the Racor gets the big stuff and most of the water. The OEM gets the small stuff and any water that might make it through the Racor.


The heater is thermostatically controlled to prevent any water that might be there from freezing up, or possible fuel gelling when it's cold.


Yes there are units that go under the hood, pre and post OEM configurations. If you use a post OEM, you may have problems over WARRANTY since you broke into the factory fuel system on the engine.


Nuff said?

Very detailed response Mr. Watson! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Even JJ got it! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

'nuff said! Makes sense now.....I had my micron's backwardshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Thanks Zeeb - Leaning towards the Nicktane. IMHO installation seems a little easier and I have a CAT dealer right around the corner for filter supplies.

To anyone who installed the Nictane...... The installation directions seem pretty upfront but need clarification on the following:

#1) Little confused on where to mount the bracket? From the manual - "position the bracket under the truck, inside the driver's side rear fender well".

#2) Is getting access to the OEM fuel line as difficult as it sounds on a CC?? Instructions say you have to "bend , notch or remove the deflector plate"

#3) Is there enough room to get to the top of the tank and get the OEM fuel line disconnects off using the line disconnect tool? I had a heck of a time getting the disconnects off on my 98 gasser when changing the pump.

Kinda sounds like an hour or so job to me????

Stopped by the Stealer today (large dealership) and talked to the SM about his opinion on a secondary fuel filter and warranty. I appreciate him being so candid. He gave me the answer that we have heard so many times before on this forum ....

"GM feels that they have the injector problem solved and they are getting real picky about replacing them because some dealers have been handing them out like candy.. If you install a non-OEM filter it could give GM a reason not to cover any problems under warranty and it would be hard for me to fight for you. If you keep it stock and follow the maintenance schedule they will have no choice but to cover any problems - even bad fuel because they say their filtration system is suppose to be adequate." He added " ...go ahead and install it when your warranty ends..."

On a second note--- I asked about the newly released ECM flash that's suppose to cure some of the idle problems. He stated it is out and he would make sure it is on my "05 when it comes in for it's first FREE oil and fuel filter change.

Just a bit of info to hand-off. Take it for what it's worth.
Robhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Rob,


If you think GM is going to stand behind the fuel system with bad fuel in it, you better read this thread:


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12798&KW=georgecls


They were arguing over some greatly simplified fuel test done at the dealer's which is primarily designed to detect gasoline in diesel fuel. They initially rejected warranty claims on injectors due to bad fuel. Now the guy who had this happen, is probably the most knowledgeable individual on this forum when it comes to such matters. They wound up arguing with BP since George's truck had nothing but BP Supreme diesel put in it, which greatly exceeds GM's specs for fuel.


It looks like GM is going to take ANY possible fuel contamination problem as an excuse to deny warranty on the system with the LLY's.


It's kind of a long thread, but it basically negates what your SM told you and supports what I said about GM not necessarily going with what an SM might say.


CYA buddy...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Guys,


I do know that with gasoline tanks inground you still can get water and sediment in the tank and it will get stirred up during a delivery of fuel... it does not matter what size tank or how old the tank is...


I do not know for sure this to be true with a diesel tank, however it would seem to be affected by the sames forces of nature


As far as getting bad fuel.. it can happen in large as well as small... water and sediment in the fuel tank in ground or in the delivery truck ... it is still capable to effect all of us...


Around here as there are smaller stations that do as much business as the larger ones... and there is one in the area that sets the prices... not hugh... there are just as big stations to one side.. and a smaller one to the other side... one of them is a mobil.. but its the citgo??that sets the pace....


just my .02


Pete

Yea Zeeb,

I too followed that thread as it evolved. I was just passing along the info from my SM to show how much of a pickle we can all get into no matter what precautions or road we decide to take. I guess life is always a series of crap shoots......no matter what you do you're gonna win some and you're gonna lose somehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif The good news is no matter what road you decide to take you'll be driving down it in a Duramax (unless, of course, you have a warranty issue and your truck won't run)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif