Dark fluid in the Ally. [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

: Dark fluid in the Ally.


Mike L.
09-11-2004, 08:22 PM
I have been doing a study on some complaints of very dark fluid, some people said their fluid was almost black. So far, every one of them had TranSynd in them. The 3 that I have torn down had a black ring around the torque converter cover ( smoked converter clutch). I have formed my opinion already and will hold back till I see more evidence. What do you guys think? I have never seen this with Dex 111. Coincidence? Defective converter? I have seen plenty of smoked converters in the Allys and it never changed the color of the fluid with Dex 111. This is only an ongoing study, and not a final diagnosis. I am not qualifyed to judge fluids because I am not an expert, only an observer. I have been observing trans fluids for 39 years.


Time for the experts to chime in. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

Mackin
09-11-2004, 08:31 PM
Stock?


Mac

Got Juice?
09-11-2004, 08:37 PM
Detergents leaving residue that scorches in the transynd?


Transynd 'varnishing' at higher temps?


This is a good question

Mike L.
09-11-2004, 08:54 PM
Mac


One was totaly stock, but it pulled a fiver, and the other two were not stock. Only thing in common was the fluid. I am only making an obsevation, not a judgement. Big black ring on the lid is not common. Nick didn't even burn it that bad and neither did a lot of other hard core guys whos Duramaxes I worked on. They did have one thing in common, Dex111. They left my shop with Dex 111. Makes me wonder if the BW converter clutch lining is compatible with TranSynd. I have been experiencing some big problems with fluid on some of the late model cars. All of the special fluids are stamped Dex 111 compatible, but I have not found this to be true in my experience. I have found that you can lose 30% or more holding power to any clutch with the wrong fluid. Do I have an answer? No. Time being, I will use Dex 111 to be safe on the Ally. I also don't listen to the transmission manufactures recomendations. I listen to the car manufaucturers recomendations because they managed to change something along the way.


mike

NWDmax
09-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Mike, what have you observed with Mobil 1 in the Allison?


I changed to it when I bought the truck (12k on the odo) and I think you've said in the past that it may be the best choice.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


Blake

Dmax Tim
09-12-2004, 09:03 AM
How about sending in some samples of the oils and see what contamination is giving it the dark color.


May be some really useful info.

bjurkovski
09-12-2004, 10:44 AM
When I first got my truck before getting the juice I took it on a 5500 mile trip with my fiver and when I got back my transmission fluid was black and this was the Dex 111 straight from the factory. All the dealer did was flush the fluid and change the filters and as not reoccurred since but I sure there's some damage. I'm not too concerned because I see a tranny upgrade in my future.

Mike L.
09-12-2004, 08:22 PM
Blake


It is too soon to judge Mobil 1 but it will be ok with what I have seen so far. This observation is something new ( haven't seen many TranSynd Allys, but I am now). I don't like what I see. Is it Catrol fluid not compatible with BW clutch lining, or defective converters? I am not qualified to say. I can tell you that Allison has different linings for their H/D units that require TranSynd. We do not have that lining in our trucks. I don't think it will bother a Suncoast or ATS at all. I will not use it. I made the last statement because I do not know enough about it, and GM states Dexron 111 is the fluid to use.


mike

GRMax
09-12-2004, 11:44 PM
Eric just changed my Max from Transynd to Mobil 1 [along with a few Alli upgrades]. I kinda decided on Mobil 1 due to Mike L. previous posts and Eric was fine with using Mobil 1. Hope it was the right move.

Max Owner
09-13-2004, 12:19 AM
Posting to follow this one.....

Burner
09-13-2004, 09:25 AM
Yep, me too.

ratlover
09-13-2004, 09:39 AM
My fluid before the rebuild was very dark. 27k with a pan dump and refill in between with a deep alli pan. Running 90hp juice for most of the time, 125 for a few weeks before I did the upgrade. Converter looked fine but the fluid that came out was ugly. Factory dex and the change was regular dex.


Side note the mobil 1 looks brand new still and I've been doing my best to flog it

baimpala
09-13-2004, 12:07 PM
Posting to follow this one.....


You guys know that you can click the link at the bottom of the page the thread is on to have replies to any link sent to you e-mail inbox?


You can also do it with complete forums. . . A couple forums will get you a couple hundred e-mails a day. . . hang on to your seats.


Dennis

dmaxalliTech
09-13-2004, 12:31 PM
Here is GM's answer:



<H1>Allison LCT1000 Dark or Discolored Transmission Fluid with No Loss of Performance - kw automatic black fluid GMT800 oil repeat #PI01932 - (Mar 30, 2004)</H1>


Allison LCT1000 Dark or Discolored Transmission Fluid with No Loss of Performance


.


When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms. <A name=ss1-1486345><A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1486345&amp;psdid=271&amp;evc=sm#ss1-1486345" target="_blank">
<H5>Condition/Concern:</A></H5>


Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra trucks equipped with the Allison LCT1000 automatic transmission may experience a condition in the which the transmission fluid has become dark/discolored (dark brown to black). There will not be any transmission performance issues with the transmission. <A name=ss2-1486345><A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1486345&amp;psdid=271&amp;evc=sm#ss2-1486345" target="_blank">
<H5>Recommendation/Instructions:</A></H5>


Testing performed by Allison Transmission indicates that this symptom shows a degree of viscosity breakdown of the Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Viscosity breakdown occurs with vehicle usage, and occurs more rapidly with increased loads and heat. If this condition is encountered, the ATF and external spin-on ATF filter should be replaced and the transmission oil cooler lines and coolers should be flushed. Additional trucks used for towing or hauling should utilize the Tow/Haul Mode when the gross combined weight is 75% of the vehicles gross combined weight rating. The use of synthetic automatic transmission fluid, though not a requirement, can be used if requested by the customer. Allison Transmission does market a synthetic fluid called TranSynd and it is available through GMSPO under part number 12378515 in the US and 88900701 in Canada. The fluid is a ship direct part and is available in cases of 12 quarts.


The following is a summary of the owners manual recommended maintenance schedule for the ATF and spin-on filter.


2004: Spin-on filter only at first maintenance service performed on the vehicle, Normal Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 50,000 miles, Severe Service; ATF andspin-on filter every 25,000 miles


2003: Spin-on filter at first 7,500 miles, Normal Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 50,000 miles, Severe Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 25,000 miles


2002: Normal Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 50,000 miles, Severe Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 25,000 miles


2001: Normal Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 50,000 miles, Severe Service; ATF and spin-on filter every 25,000 miles


Owners Manual Severe Service Guideline: If the vehicle is mainly driven under one or more of the following conditions;
<UL =SQUARE>
<LI>In heavy city traffic when the outside temperature regularly reaches 90 degree F or higher
<LI>In hilly or mountainous terrain
<LI>When doing frequent trailer towing
<LI>Uses such as found in taxi, police or delivery service </LI>[/list]


.


Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.<A name=ss3-1486345><A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1486345&amp;psdid=271&amp;evc=sm#ss3-1486345" target="_blank">
<H5>Models:</A></H5>


(01 - 04 Chevrolet Silverado) and (01 - 04 GMC Sierra)

Max Owner
09-13-2004, 01:51 PM
Hmmm..... Almost sounds like it is because Tow/Haul mode isn't being used. Any thoughts?

I tow (about 7500 lbs-ish) and use Tow/Haul all the time. 83,000 klms and nothing worth mentioning.

ratlover
09-13-2004, 02:57 PM
I forgot to mention I never towed. Plowed snow but the temps really stayed ok and I plow in THEdited by: ratlover

hd90rider
09-13-2004, 06:41 PM
353k on my 02 Alli with no problems, no mods, towing 70% of the time. Second Duramax in this truck. Wish the motor would last like the tranny. Never any mods &amp; serviced faithfully. Temps just starting to run a little higher than befor. How soon will that cooler be ready for us haulers??

_nar_
09-13-2004, 10:32 PM
Not to hijack the thread here but you ought to start another one about what happened to your motor at 282000. Enquiring minds and all that...

Mike L.
09-13-2004, 10:40 PM
Not to hijack the thread here but you ought to start another one about what happened to your motor at 282000. Enquiring minds and all that... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gifSame thing that happened to all our great grand parents. It was time to go home , with love. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


mike

modified
09-19-2004, 08:23 PM
Can someone copy Eric's info below, to the T.S.B.'s ?
<H1>Allison LCT1000 Dark or Discolored Transmission Fluid with No Loss of Performance - kw automatic black fluid GMT800 oil repeat #PI01932 - (Mar 30, 2004)</H1>

dmaxalliTech
09-19-2004, 09:46 PM
Not sure what your after Steve..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

DOGBOY
09-21-2004, 05:39 PM
hey guys,


my d/a has less than 6000 miles and i have towed a 14 - 15k fifthwheel about 700 miles using tow haul every time. i went from atlanta to cherokee nc once. my tranny tems never exceded 160 according to on dash gauge. i changed my spin on and the fluid smelled burnt and was dark red. i smelled new atf i put in and it smelled alot better. i realy didnt know what to do after that what do you guy's recommend? oh yea i have original atf in now.





dogboy