beating one, that is...


I've decided after much contemplatationhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif that I would *not* go transyn and just go regular dex III/mercron on my first change. Mostly because I don't tow anything over 6000 lbs and then only about 5~7 times a year and I can get the dex for about $4/gal at Costco (plus I avoid any nasty warranty issues).


So the questions are:


1) should I drop the pan and do a full flush (I'm at 25k) or just pull the plug and drain what will come?


2) if I do drop the pan, (do I have to/should I) replace the internal filter or wait until I do the next one in another 25k? (I'm thinking the answer is yes, but I'd like to hear other views)


3) does the procedure have to be done on level ground? (my street goes up/down hill depending on how you look at it!)


and finally...


4) If I did the full flush, do I really care about saving and measuring all the fluid that comes out if I'm just replacing with dex?


...I'm sure I have more questions, but that will get me started.


Thanks!

Don,


From what I understand about the Allison and even told to me today by a Allison service manager that the only time you need to replace the filter inside the pan is on a rebuild, but be sure to change the spin on filter and use a Allison brand as the Napa does not allow the oil through the holes, the magnet actually stops up the holes on the napa brand and besides that the factory brand is a lot less money and it works with the magnet. Also the service manager at the Allison shop in Tulsa said they would just drain the pan and not pull it, however if you go synth. than after driving five thousand miles he would recommend to drain it again and refill. Hope this helps! As far as the ground being level I would think that would be advisable but thats just my hunch.


Terry

roight! (aussie for "right" even though I'm not aussie) That's what I was thinking... Thanks Terry!

If the non Allison filter restricted flow in any way you would not move.(spin on) You guys need to look at the 2 filters and see the difference in how they flow. The magnet on the Allison filter does not catch all the metal as well as when it is mounted on the SPX filter. If you want to talk like an expert bring facts and not hearsay. I also do not want to hear what your local Allison counter man has to say about anything. I deal with 2 different Allison dealers . Why is it you don't believe a word from your GM dealer, but Allison is gospel? This is the same old thing, it is a franchise, and the idiots that work the counter or write service might have come from Pep Boys. But, you take their word. Think about it. You will learn eventually.


mike

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Mike L.,

Since I get the impression you're not very impressed with the typical Allison dealerhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif, what's your opinion on the original four questions then? I'm getting close to 50k miles & a tranny fluid change, so I'm curious too.

Allison being in the business for 85 years is no slouch. They build the worlds best transmission for Off road earth movers ,Cranes,Over the road tractors, to high service vehicles,RV's and our baby pick up.


The Allison 1000 series has been in service in vehicles LONG before the inception into the GM HD pick up.


Lets NOT kid ourselves HERE!


==============================================


1) should I drop the pan and do a full flush (I'm at 25k) or just pull the plug and drain what will come?


If your staying with conventional Dex III drain and refill.


2) if I do drop the pan, (do I have to/should I) replace the internal filter or wait until I do the next one in another 25k? (I'm thinking the answer is yes, but I'd like to hear other views)


There is NO need with CONVENTIONAL use to drop the pan and change the internal sump filter.But IF you drop the pan it's your option.Also the pan gasket is reusable.


3) does the procedure have to be done on level ground? (my street goes up/down hill depending on how you look at it!)


and finally...


Most definitely for accurate fluid level.


4) If I did the full flush, do I really care about saving and measuring all the fluid that comes out if I'm just replacing with dex?


No there is plenty of information here on how much fluid you will need to do a flush. See the DIY forum for more information.





Mac





Edited by: Mackin

"If you want to talk like an expert bring facts and not hearsay."


mike

We await your facts and qualifications, sir.

If you want to talk like an expert bring facts and not hearsay. I also do not want to hear what your local Allison counter man has to say about anything. I deal with 2 different Allison dealers . Why is it you don't believe a word from your GM dealer, but Allison is gospel? This is the same old thing, it is a franchise, and the idiots that work the counter or write service might have come from Pep Boys. But, you take their word. Think about it. You will learn eventually.


mike I have very often thought the same things, but never really knew how to say it tactfully, good thing my boy is here to say what I am thinking then all I gotta do is quote and agreehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

"If you want to talk like an expert bring facts and not hearsay."



mike




We await your facts and qualifications, sir.


Seems to me they've been presented. I'd gladly have him work on my Tranny, but seein' as how I'm gonna be closer to Eric, I guess he'll 'do' too, in a pinch.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Dennis

if your really into overkill the only easy way to get a majority of the old fluid out is done via the "hoot" method as can be found int the DIY section. Also if your the overkill type and bored, dropping the pan and cleaning off the magnet wouldnt hurt. The pan will retain a bit of dirt fluid even if you drain it via the plug, put the plug back in before you drop it after you drain it. Its overkill but the gasket is reusable so you realy arnt out anything. Oh, but if you drop the pan(drain it first) pull of the filter and set it aside(or throw it in the trash if you are really into overkill) because otherwise it will fall out when you arnt paying attention and probably drop itself into the pan of atf splash it everywere and then it will piss all over you outa the suction hole. Actually right now may not be a bad time to switch to a deep pan, I got mine(a stock alli steal) from Eric for 100$ or so IIRC. Or you could spend the cash on some bling bling mag or aluminum pan.


Those are some overkill options and thoughts but Mackin is right on thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Edited by: ratlover

If the non Allison filter restricted flow in any way you would not move.(spin on) You guys need to look at the 2 filters and see the difference in how they flow. The magnet on the Allison filter does not catch all the metal as well as when it is mounted on the SPX filter. If you want to talk like an expert bring facts and not hearsay. I also do not want to hear what your local Allison counter man has to say about anything. I deal with 2 different Allison dealers . Why is it you don't believe a word from your GM dealer, but Allison is gospel? This is the same old thing, it is a franchise, and the idiots that work the counter or write service might have come from Pep Boys. But, you take their word. Think about it. You will learn eventually.


mike

I don't doubt the man knows what he's talking about - the post just seems a little harshly worded in response to the post by TShrum1 who was just trying to give advice to someone without as much knowledge. He expressed the same opinion that I've seem alot of times on other posts so I'm sure he was just trying to pass on information to someone asking for help with good intentions. I just think that MIKE L's post was a little harshly worded towards anyone who is trying to help. After-all, I thought that the reason this site works so well is the ones with vast knowledge are not stingy on sharing it with those of us who don't have as much knowledge and in exchange the supporting vendors get some business.

IMHO a supporting vendor should seek to educate and not ridicule - that's the type of vendor that will get more business. I wonder how many forum members (or even vendors)started out their careers at the "Parts Counter".

Just my opinionhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

but would you take our advice if we were standing at the parts counter? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Sure - After you had built my trust in your knowledge as you have done here. And because of the that trust and the information that you personally share you get my business. I could easily go somewhere else but I feel I owe you some payback - that's how it's suppose to work.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif Not to mention you are a fellow Michiganian http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Many thanks to you and the other vendors who educate those of us who are "diesel challenged"

I count myself among the diesel challenged, but I wouldn't care if Mike or Eric were total jerk-offs, they would still get work from me because of their outstanding reputation. It's easy to take things differently than intended in a post, there is no body language to read or inflection. Very difficult. I'm sure Mike meant it the way it sounded. Put yourself in his shoes, he answers the same question every day, it probably gets a little tiring, so it can be easy to become short tempered. Not defending, just trying to look at it a different way.


Dennis

I will try not to be stingy with my information anymore. I know I've been holding out on you guys. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


As far as the questions at the top; I would pull the pan and change sump filter. I would flush the system and go back with the brand of fluid you feel you need. Synthetic fluid is a plus for towing and hot climates. I personaly use Dex 111 as I have not worked my truck hard yet. I will switch to Mobil 1. I also change my spin on filter every 5K miles, cheap insurance. I will then change the trans fluid every 30K after that. This is not a recomendation for anyone, it is what I will do with my truck. Hope it helps.


mike

I count myself among the diesel challenged, but I wouldn't care if Mike or Eric were total jerk-offs, they would still get work from me because of their outstanding reputation. It's easy to take things differently than intended in a post, there is no body language to read or inflection. Very difficult. I'm sure Mike meant it the way it sounded. Put yourself in his shoes, he answers the same question every day, it probably gets a little tiring, so it can be easy to become short tempered. Not defending, just trying to look at it a different way.


Dennis

Point well taken - I guess we all have a nerve that gets hit once in a while as Mike's was in his post and mine was in my post. No offense Mike and thanks for the part you do!

Sheeze! Look-it us! Now were're helping each other when one of us are having a bad day - maybe we need a new "Diesel Place Emotional well being" thread.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


Ok, here it is, thread hug for us all http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Let's review:


Clearly, I too am diesel-challenged (DC), but won't be forever as long as I stick around here. I have donated funds to support this forum and purchased products from the experts who support us here. I would even use their services if any of them were located in Southern Nevada.


Don't listen to the guy behind the counter 'cause he don't know sh!t.


The experts that support us DC's are like experts in any other field, a little intollerant of newbies but well worth the trouble if that's what you need (as a 20-year software engineer I can relate, my attitude toward the less experienced in my field is tempered by their attitude. If they act like they know everything, then I merclessly make 'em proove ithttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif, if they know they don't know sh!t, then I'm happy to help. It's all a matter of expressed humility in by book)


Nobody is OBLIGATED to POST or RESPOND TO SH!T on this board, we all do so at will. I'm sorry that this post has brought out the less diplomatic side of some, and there's a phrase that a wise man once beat into my head that I think will help:


"Ask the question."


If you suspect someone don't know sh!t, "ask the question", "do you know sh!t?" In the case above, the question might have been "Have you had any personal experience with the SPX?". Problem solved.


Thanks everyone for posting and reading this ramble. All of your input and support of my truck and I are invaluable to me! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Now what was that about a dead horse.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif LOL,


Huggers. . . .

Feel the love....... But not too much.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Hey Mike L,


Didn't mean to step on your toes here! I am sure you were just having one of those days sure didn't mean to insult you by no means, I apprecaite all I have learned on here!


Thanks and hope you have a better week!


One thing and that is the Nappa filter DOES RESTRICT as I have read other posts on here stating they had hard shifts except for one guy and that was because he replied "what magnet" besides the Nappa filter cost me fifteen dollars and the Allison filter was eight dollars


anyway have a great day and again Thanks for all your help


Terry

Hey TERRY


I had a good week. I am so happy that you checked the different flow design between the Ally stock filter and the SPX filter to see how they achieve the same thing in a different way. I know that you looked at both filters and saw the difference in the free flow area, one being a lot higher than the other. I know that you saw the difference in the number of holes in the filters and the spacing of them. I am sorry you found the SPX lacking. Funny, they build both filters. Maybe a conspiracy you think? And think, I just wrote all this without shouting. Terry, use the filter that you like as I do and be happy and don't try and blow smoke up my ass. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS A COMPLILATION
OF TEXT ASSEMBLED FROM VARIOUS PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARDS
AND WAS NOT WRITTEN BY THE OWNER OF THIS PAGE.

USE AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION




There are two lines on the passenger's side of the transmission up front near
the converter; the lower one is the "To Cooler" line and the upper one is the
"From Cooler" line. If you disconnect the "From Cooler" line from the transmission
you can put it in a bucket and flush to your heart's content.

In case you haven't seen the Jiffy-Tite style connector before: Slide back the
plastic cover over the c-clip-shaped spring, then use a small screwdriver to
pop the spring out of its groove.
KEEP A FINGER ON THE SPRING AS YOU DO THIS,
because those springs just love to go flying off into some dark hole where
you'll never find it. Once the spring is out,just pull and wiggle on the line
until it comes out of the fitting. As soon as you have the line out you can put
the spring back into its groove so you don't lose it - the line will snap right
back into place when you're done, even with the spring there.
Be careful not to damage the o-rings when re-installing.

A few other tips for your pan swap...
When you're removing the old suction filter: if the seal stays in the bore, don't use a screwdriver
to pry it out. Just wipe off the neck of the filter, wipe out the seal, and reinstall the filter.
Cock it sideways a bit and pull down again - the seal should come out with it.>

Your refill quantity will be 10.5 quarts or roughly 2.5 gallons. This
is with the deep pan, and does not include the cooler lines. The torque
converter holds roughly 4.5 quarts in addition to the 10.5 quarts. Obviously
this means you will have a mixture of TranSynd and Dexron. The two fluids
are compatible.

I bought a 5 gal pail of Transynd ($125) and poured two quarts in clean
containers just in case I needed to add any in the future. The remaining
4.5 gal went through the tranny - start the engine, run a few quarts out,
shut off the engine, add more Transynd and repeat until it was all in.
Lucked out that my final check was right on the correct fill level
(checked HOT as per the manuals).

If you refill with Transynd as I did, you will have about 58% Transynd.
After the second fluid change using Transynd, you will have about 80%
and over 90% at the third change. If you plan on switching to TranSynd I
recommend you buy 3 Gallons and pull the "From Cooler" line loose from
the transmission (install a short hose into a bucket) and start the truck
up to flush (the majority) the Dexron 2 out... I over fill the pan by 2-3
quarts when I'm doing this...

You "feed and bleed" , *DO NOT* pump your tranny dry!! You install
your filters, pans and whatnots, fill her up to the "cold" mark with new
fluid. Then hook up your flush hose and also feed new fluid down the
dipstick hole while you are pumping. After pumping about 2-1/2 to 3 gallons,
stop, reconnect the flush line, fill back up to the cold mark with new
fluid. Then start it up and work your way through all the gears
(holding the brakes), pausing for a few seconds in each selection.
Take her out for a spin around the block and drive for about 15-3O minutes.
Then come back and do the through-the-gears routine again before winding up
in Park and while still idling check for fluid at the "Hot" level. Adjust
as necessary and you are set!

No.. What I'm saying is after you have drained the fluid and replaced
the spin-on filter you can remove the "From Cooler" line and install
a short piece of hose into a bucket... From that point I hope you measu

...... and don't try and blow smoke up my ass. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike


Lord knows there aint no room for that in therehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Hi Hoot,


Looks like great info but I guess we will have to wait for the all mighty Mike L to find something wrong with this as he does most all our replies!


I was not trying to blow smoke up anyones ass mike, just I know what I saw and what I have read so I will use the approved Allison Transmission filter and you use what you want, and pay more! I don't doubt your knowledge on some of this but I have heard from a lot of people who agree with me and not you. Also I will add that THE FACTORY TECHS AT ALLISON DO KNOW ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS!


You know we all have our own opinion and you have yours so I respect that!


Terry

FINALLY! The Hoot Method!


I found it once, somewhere, but never again! Looked all over the DYI section, did a search on all posts by 'hoot', nothing. Thanks for posting it again hoot!

THE FACTORY TECHS AT ALLISON DO KNOW ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS! A lot of people would argue that point with the dealership techs as well.. I bet you would be suprised the overall quality of the tech in any shop. Allison shop is no different

Wont a restrictive filter make the ally shift soft or slopy? Untill the allison learns to deal with it I suppose(and if the restriction is to a point were it cant you will limp it or slip it) Beleive someone ran into this so it just isnt "theory". Also i have ran the filter Mike is talking about with my magnet and havent had anything but nice crisp shifts with my SCIII and a hotjuice set to kill. Also just my personal exprience but if it was restricting things I am betting I woulda found out. And there would also be lotsa reports of sliping trans and limping trans when switching to X if a certian filter was restrictive I would imagin. If it was just partialy restrictive I believe you would have a noticable softer shift till the ally learned to deal with it at the least but really restrictive? Bad sh*t would happen quickly and the ally would freak out. JMO


Dont listen to Mike though, he dont know sh*t. You might want to give him a call though, its easy to get the wrong impression of sombody via typed words. The deal with Mike is that he will tell you how he sees it and he sees it based on actual experience. If he dont know he will say "dont have a f-ing clue, next time I talk to so and so I'll find out cuz I'm curious now"


You can have your own oppinion just like we all have ours. The oppinions I have shared are based on my experience. We could probably start a 100page thread on peoples experience with supposed factory techs or reps that should know thier stuff in any field of your choice.


JMOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

The fire has been lit and there is no stopping the ideas that the SPX-Kent Moore filter blocks flow. I will sell you either one. I will no longer argue the point. I want all you guys to have what you want and be happy. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


mike

Well, I did the change today and what do you think I found? NO FILTER MAGNET!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


The first change was done by the stupid dealer and apparently the tech (if you can call them that at this place!) didn't replace the magnet! So now I gotta call the dealer and see if they'll give me a free replacement. I'm not holding by breath, but we'll see. The filter was also screwed on so tight I had to use a filter wrench to get it off! *****in' idiots (I'm suprised that they got my battery replacement right yesterday!)


Also, I did the change out twice: first time I drained and replaced the filter, drove around about 10 miles, then did a second drain and refill. I figured that I'd get more new fluid in that way without the hassle of droping the pan and hootin' it.