Seems simple enough, right?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif But only one of them went out (noticed that I didn't have a green eye on it anymore). Truck keeps running on just one battery. The truck is only 16 months old--are the batteries under the b2b 36k warranty?


[edit]


I tried to recharge the battery but the charge meter would kick to near 100% charged then kick back down to about 70% charged. this happened about every 10 seconds.Edited by: donmiller714

I would disconect that one battery before it sucks the other one dry, and get 2 new batteries you never replace just one battery, all or nothing.


good luck

Batteries are covered under the "bumper to bumper" warranty.





Mac

I would think either the truck or the battery manufacture warranty would cover. For instance tires are covered by tire manufacturer. Is your only symptom the green light?? or do you seem to have lower voltage - slower cranking / dim lights. If your cranking is same same the battery is probably fine. If the cranking/lights are low then you could have a connection inside the battery that is opening. In this case you might still read full volts across battery and also could show fully charged, operate lower current devices like radio / horn etc, but you would not be able to draw heavy current through it as in starting. If the truck sits for long periods of time you should at least periodicly charge the battery. As a battery sits the solution inside seperates into its componets acid/ water, etc. Straight acid goes to the bottom of the battery and eats connections rather quickly. Starting / charging keeps the mix in solution. You could also have the same situation (bad internal connection) though with out sitting. The only true way to tell is with load and your dealer and or most auto parts places have load tests. But as I said if your cranking seems to be the same, Battery should be fine.......REMEMBER BATTERIES GIVE OFF HYDROGEN WHICH IS VERY EXPLOSIVE !! ALWAYS WEAR THOSE SAFTEY GLASSES http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Batteries can be replaced but you eyes can't....sorry for the preaching but I have seen them go boom. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


P.S. Proper jump starting is to connect positive posts of the two vehicles first. Then connect the engine blocks or battery jumping posts (marked ground - next to red plastic battery box) This is to keep that spark away from the battery.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

The cranking, glow plug warm-up, and everything else seems normal. I even read about 11.5v across the battery--the only symptom is the green eye. As far as sucking the life out of the other one, as far as I know this battery has been like this for weeks (4+ at least) with no apparent problem.


I was just out shopping for new batteries--I like the look of the Optima but don't know much about them yet. Couldn't find one that was 770 cca though (I think stock is about 600 cca, but I'm holding out for the 770). I can't imagine that I'd want to put a P.O.S. Checker or Autozone battery back in.


And do I have to replace both of them? Seems like a waste if one is still good. Sounds like it's time to take it out and have it load tested, but it has to be charged for that (as far as I know) and it doesn't look like it will charge; I had it on the charger for about 4 hrs yesterday, still connected to the engine, and it didn't budge the needle on the charger.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif mmm.... take it to the dealer for warranty or spend $80 and save the hassle... I can't decide...

The local dealer said that the Delcos were bad about leaking around the terminals and if so, they would be replaced if less than 36k miles.

I'm about to go in for my 3rd set under warranty..... They are leaking from the connections... I just can't justify spending the coin on Optimas when mother GM keeps putting new ones in for free...


I just hate the fact that I can't rely on the AC Delco's...

Also, when they leak they make a mess of engine compartment/wheel well area. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I'm about to go in for my 3rd set under warranty..... They are leaking from the connections... I just can't justify spending the coin on Optimas when mother GM keeps putting new ones in for free...


I just hate the fact that I can't rely on the AC Delco's...





Noticed one of mine was weeping around a terminal. Didn't bother w/warranty ~ purchased Optima's and relegated the Delcos as aux batts for my TT. Just made sure to put them in battery cases. To me, its just not worth the risks of spillage in the eng compartment. Edited by: ShumDit

Just got the battery replaced under warranty--service document said the battery was leaking acid, so they cleaned up the acid and replaced the battery. Nice!

donmiller714, "I even read about 11.5v across the battery." Is this with no load on the battery? Was the battery still connected in parallel with the good one? A 12vdc battery should read approximately 13.8+ vdc with no load. I would try to get the dealership to replace the other battery as well, as the bad battery could possibly have damaged the other one. If the battery was still connected, I would say the other one is damaged as the bad one was pulling it down as well. I know the dealership will probably say no way, but I would try anyway. Go to your local Napa or other parts store. You can buy a load tester for around $50 if you can catch them on sale. This is what mine looks like:


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/BZ3_23117.jpeg


There are more expensive ones out there, but this one works well. I use/own lots of equipment with both 6 and 12 volt systems and I always check the batteries prior to taking them in if it is for a free replacement under warranty, because many parts stores will try to avoid the free replacement(the shop I regularly go to does not do this, but they aren't always open). When I tell them my findings with a meter and load tester, they usually back off their standing that my charging system is the culprit.

A 12vdc battery should read approximately 13.8+ vdc with no load.


I disagree that the "no-load" voltage on a 12 volt battery should be 13.8+vdc. 12.8 sounds more like it.


Even wired in parallel, as with the Duramax, the no load "resting" voltage (of the two batteries) should be around 12.8+-


Edited by: ronadycks

Trust me, a fully charged, good condition 12 v battery, with no load(disconnected) should read around 13.8v with a good voltmeter.

Trust me, a fully charged, good condition 12 v battery, with no load(disconnected) should read around 13.8v with a good voltmeter.


I mean NO disrespect, but you are WRONG, and there are MANY sources of information regarding battery voltages, and proper maintenance... Is it possible that your meter is out of calibration? Or you are taking a reading immediately after a charge session.


Considering you have removed the surface charge...There are different ways to remove surface charge, one is to allow the battery to rest after a charge, for about 12 hours.


The following is taken partly from www.batterystuff.com (http://www.batterystuff.com), amongst many other sources of battery information. Please read the following


The most popular is measurement of specific gravity and battery voltage. To measure specific gravity buy a temperature compensating hydrometer at an auto parts store. To measure voltage on a sealed or 'no maintenance battery' , use a digital D.C. Voltmeter.



Here are the state of charge specifics for a 12 volt lead acid battery. This applies to sealed (maintenance free) or non-sealed lead-acid batteries.



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><T><T><T><T><T><T><T><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD align=middle width="33%">State of Charge</TD>
<TD align=middle width="33%">Spec. Gravity</TD>
<TD align=middle width="34%">Voltage</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle width="33%">


100%
*75%
50%
25%
Discharged</TD>
<TD align=middle width="33%">


1.265
1.225
1.190
1.155
1.120</TD>
<TD align=middle width="34%">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><T><T><T><T><T><T><T><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD align=middle width="50%">


12.7
12.4
12.2
12.0
11.9</TD>
<TD align=middle width="50%">


</TD></TR></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></TABLE></TD></TR></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></T></TABLE>


Edited by: ronadycks

Seems simple enough, right?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif But only one of them went out (noticed that I didn't have a green eye on it anymore). Truck keeps running on just one battery. The truck is only 16 months old--are the batteries under the b2b 36k warranty?


[edit]


I tried to recharge the battery but the charge meter would kick to near 100% charged then kick back down to about 70% charged. this happened about every 10 seconds.





If the "green eye" is not showing, that means you may have a dead or shorted #1 cell in your battery. Most folks don't know this, but the "green eye" only "monitors" the first cell, meaning that you could have a "green eye" but still, one of the other cells could be bad. I sounds like you have a shorted/bad cell. After a charge, one way to verify this, is to take a voltage reading. If the reading is around 10.7 volts, after having been on a charge, you can be assured of the bad cell.


The "green eye" is technically a hydrometer that is built into the #1 cell of maintenance free batteries. Not really a good tool to measure battery condition. If you cannot get the battery to charge or hold a charge, and a "resting" voltage of close to 12.7, it is obviously in need of replacement.

The cranking, glow plug warm-up, and everything else seems normal. I even read about 11.5v across the battery--


If you are reading 11.5 across the battery with both batteries being connected to the system, then, that is another sign of a dead cell in the battery that won't take a charge.


Observe,


Good battery equals 12.7 plus the bad battery (dead cell) at 10.7 equals an average reading of 11.70 volts or very close to the readings you are getting. Your batteries will provide service but the defective battery is putting stress on the good one. The dealer should replace it or both if you can convince them to.

ronadycks,


I mean no disrespect either. That is a decent site for basic info. However, IMO(I don't know how an EE would view this), a battery that has been fully charged and then loaded with 20 amps for 3+ minutes is no longer a fully charged battery. That looks more like lab condition, not real world. Both of my Simpson analog meters and two of my Fluke meters are calibrated monthly as they are used to test and adjust equipment for ISO compliance. I have a few batteries that haven't seen a charger or any other type of load for a couple of months and they still read between 13.6 and 13.8 volts.

ronadycks,


I mean no disrespect either. That is a decent site for basic info. However, IMO(I don't know how an EE would view this), a battery that has been fully charged and then loaded with 20 amps for 3+ minutes is no longer a fully charged battery. That looks more like lab condition, not real world. Both of my Simpson analog meters and two of my Fluke meters are calibrated monthly as they are used to test and adjust equipment for ISO compliance. I have a few batteries that haven't seen a charger or any other type of load for a couple of months and they still read between 13.6 and 13.8 volts.





Dear flhrciblueice,


I am not sure how to respond. EVERY reference I have been able to find regarding battery technology (not just from the one site I provided) would have to be thrown away based on the information you have written. That is, assuming we talking about standard automotive, and/or deep cycle lead-acid 12 volt batteries? If not, end of subject, because it does not apply to this discussion.


This is a complicated subject, and probably best not discussed in this thread, mainly because, most folks have very little knowledge of battery technologies, and really don't care. Does it start the car or not? That is all most folks care about!


IN answer to you remark about 20 amps over 3 minutes.. They are talking about removing surface charge rather than letting the battery "rest" (say 12 hours after a charge) prior to doing any type of test. What I mean is a battery that was just charged, could stand a current draw of 20 amps over 3 minutes and if in good repair, can recover (after waiting a while) to maintain its standard 12.7 volt charge. Regardless of the method of removing the surface charge, I think we can agree it must be done to accuratly test a battery's open standing voltage.


I too have a few 'tools' for measuring current, voltage, etc.. True RMS as well.


But without being too long-winded, when talking about your batteries holding 13.6/13.8 volts over time, or at any time...


...it is common knowledge amongst engineers and techs of battery technologies, that by their very nature, lead-acid batteries self-discharge at the rate of 8%, and up to 40% per month (rare extreems), which is why 'experts' in the field, recommend they remain on trickle when in 'storage'.


But, without dragging this into a deep discussion...


...you must have some really special batteries. Can you share the brand and type? AH ratings, as well? I might consider them for my Deep Cycle applications.


~RonEdited by: ronadycks

I have Optimas(yellows and reds), and some Napa batteries. I am not sure of the ah ratings(I am at work right now). I don't disagree with a surface charge "theory", but I'm not sure I agree with it in "real world" application. I believe that if you load a battery to 20 amps for 3 minutes or more, it is no longer fully charged. I think it possibly looks good on paper.


However, (this is the point I was trying to get across to the average person that can't get their vehicle to start)if you have a problem with a battery that is still under warranty(either from a parts store--not Wally world-- or original) not holding a charge or not putting enough amperage, the person at the counter is going to put a meter on it. If it doesn't read 13.8+/- volts, they will say it just needs charging. They will charge it and check it again. It will read around 13.8v or close to that if it will hold a "full charge". Then they will load test it. My guess is distributors tell them to do it this way.

the person at the counter is going to put a meter on it. If it doesn't read 13.8 volts, they will say it just needs charging. They will charge it and check it again. It will read around 13.8v or close to that if it will hold a "full charge". Then they will load test it. My guess is distributors tell them to do it this way.





Hmmm, maybe then I would agree. When you consider that the charge voltage of most good chargers is around 14.2 volts, THEN, yes, if right after a charge, they (service person) take a measurment, then, yes, it is possible for a short time the voltage will hold at 13.8.


But in all my experience, the voltage in a good battery, (and I have experience with Optimas, which are hybrid coiled AGM, RV, Golf Cart, and standard AGMs, such as Concorde's Lifeline, SunXtender, and Chairman models), would start to drop. And (within several hours) they always have dropped to around 12.8ish, give a . or 2., and then hold at that voltage. And then of course, the key is that they hold at those voltages when in storage for reasonable periods of time. That dictates a good battery from a storage point of view. Of course, AGM's exhibit the best long term storage ability by only losing maybe 1 to 3% of their open circuit voltage per month.


Now, from the load testing point of view, excessive sulphation can give false readings of a good battery with no ability to handle load, such as that of a starter motor. IN this case, you could have a battery that appears good voltage-wise, but can't put out Current.


Going back to the original post , I think this person has a dead cell in one of his batteries, based on the information. He is measuring 11.5 volts across the battery bank. If after driving and putting a charge on it, that is the best he can get in voltage, then the only logical conclusion is a dead/shorted cell...


Cheers,


Ron





Edited by: ronadycks

I think you are both right http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Just at diffrent times. Most auto battery cells are about 2.1..... volts and having 6 of them in a 12 volt batt gives you about 12.7 volts at REST. That's why they call them 12 volt battery's and not 13.8 or 14 volt battery's.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Now if the truck is running and the alternator is putting out it's usual 14 volts the batt will read 14 volts too but if you shut it off it will slowly drop down to 13.8, 13.6, 13.4 and so on and so on to about 12.7. So it depends when you check them what they will be reading.


My .02 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Diesel Dragon http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


P.S. Donmiller about your original question, bring it back to the dealer, batteries are usually either guaranteed for a certian amount of time and then prorated for the rest. What ever is the case on the Delco's tell them you want 2 new one's because they have to be replaced together. Atleast that's what everyone says.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Now, from the load testing point of view, excessive sulphation can give false readings of a good battery with no ability to handle load, such as that of a starter motor. IN this case, you could have a battery that appears good voltage-wise, but can't put out Current.


Going back to the original post , I think this person has a dead cell in one of his batteries, based on the information. He is measuring 11.5 volts across the battery bank. If after driving and putting a charge on it, that is the best he can get in voltage, then the only logical conclusion is a dead/shorted cell...


Cheers,


Ron











I agree. I think maybe we both believe the same thing, just have different ways of looking at it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif