After using 3 runs of synthetic oil heres my take.

1 Its expensive.

2 Its not a thick as dino oil.

3 The reduced thickness reduces oil pressure (in my
truck) by 20+lbs cold idle, by 3lbs hot idle, by 30+ lbs cold 2k rpm and by 10+lbs hot 2k rpm.

4 The amsoil I was running broke down by 5500 miles and started burning like mad (aprox 2 qts in 1700 miles after 5500) It burned another 1+ qts to 9900k when I dumped it out.

5 The trucks oil pressure was so low at 9k miles hot that the truck started oil starvation knocking after climbing a hill and stopping to idle at parking lot.

6 The engine was loudly clacking from about 7k on till drain.

This was my experience, yours may differ. I dont think amsoil can go 10k extended drain without problems. I am back to delo and 5k drains.

Like I said just my 2 cents and my experience.

you ran anything but amsoil? what amsoil?


You tried delvac?


BTW I noticed a lower cold pressure with schaffers semi syn I run in the winter but IMO this is good, once it warms up it runs the same as the rotella I run in the winter. JMO

ratlover what are your drain intervals with Schaeffers? I assume 15-40 supreme 700?

I have had absolutely no problems with Mobil Delvac1 (which is a fully synthetic motor oil)


Truck ran for 6K miles before I changed it out (1 year of service) and was down (at most) 1/4 quart. Previously, I had used Chevron Delo 400 on many 3K oil change intervals. Truck usually used about 1/2 quart of this oil per change inteval.


I have not noticed any change in oil pressure. Starts out at 80 psi when started in the morning and after warm-up, goes to 65 psi. Stays there no matter what load I pulll (trailer or boat).


Maybe you should give Mobil 1 Truck and SUV a try (same as Delvac 1). I have found it at Walmarts in SoCal.

I think he needs to take his truck to dealer. If you guys remember a while back he had oil pressure problems with delvac and drained it and oil pressure cam back with what ever he put in. Now all of a sudden he has the same problem with amsoil. Personally I don't think his oil is the problem is the reason Im saying take it to a dealer.


Genohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

I've been running Valvoline "Blue Extreme" Synthetic 5W40 in my 03 DMax since it turned 10K miles. Now at 38K. I had been changing at 5K internals and am now changing every 7.5K.


I towed my camper 5200 miles from MI to AZ and back this summer and about the only "oil" thing I noticed was a pressure drop on hard uphill pulls which many others have reported, no matter what oil. No strange engine noises of any sort, even after pulling in for fuel after just hammering it at 75MPH uphill for 4-5 miles and watching the PSI drop from 55 to 45PSI at 2000 RPM's or so as the oil heated up a bit.


My truck has used virtually no oil between changes. I do notice a bit lower oil pressure across the board with syn, but more like a 5PSI drop not 10-20.


Maybe I'm wasting some $$$ changing it every 5-7.5K miles, but to me it's cheap insurance and the truck sure starts easy after sitting outside all day on cold winter days here in Michigan. They say the majority of wear occurs in the first few seconds on a cold startup so to me syn is good investment if you're going to keep a vehicle for a long time.


BTW....before my trip, I changed the oil but didn't reset the oil life monitor as I was curious to know how long it would take to light up. Took almost 11K miles from one reset to the next. About half of this driving was daily commute and the other half was the camping trip. I would never actually wait this long to change the oil, but was amazed the computer thought it could go that long. Interesting.


My .02!

Many times when switching oils it takes one or two drains for the new oil to "take". You can get a conflict with detergency and additive packages. And/or build up from previous oil. purging can help as well.

Since Delvac 1 appears to be a favorite on this board I decided to give it a try. I'd been using Red Line synthetic 15w40 for aproximately 15,000 miles with no problems.


As soon as I went to Delvac, my copper readings went through the roof. Last reading while on Delvac went up to 120 ppm!!!


Then I switched over to Delo 400 and my copper level dropped... went down to 20 ppm. I changed my oil with Delo again and that is what I am running now until I test again.


I don't know why my engine performed so poorly while using Delvac but it makes me think that problemchild may have something there...

Got Amsoil 15W40 for 5500 miles, looking to change soon. No problems to report even with the oilguard!

I should include this....

I have NEVER owned a car/truck that had such a wild oil pressure swing.

I mean at 0 f degrees and dino oil its pushing 100lbs idle and when it warms up its at 15-20lbs and if its hot its at 10lbs. Thats a 90+ pound swing at idle.

90 pounds is insane, they sure as hell didnt do their homework when it came to the design of the oil schema on this engine.

PC you seem to have more than your share of bad luck as we have seen by your numerous posts here.I personally have run nothing but Delo 400 since I bought the truck used with 12k miles.My lowest oil pressure at a hot idle is 35 to 40 pounds and on a hard pull 60 psi.I do have the high pressures on start up but I thought that was an 01 anamoly.Have you switched back to the Delo yet and if so did it solve your oil pressure and clacking prob?


Blake

running the schaffers 7000 supreme 15-40 on regular change intervals(5k) I run it in the winter just because it has a better pour point. I have acces to shell rotella for free so its hard to spend the cash for oil. It goes in in the warmer months. 30k this way, no OA but my motor hasnt blown up or shown any funky pressure probs.


PC, I dont have pressure swings like what you are describing. Gauge maybe screwy? something else may be amiss(since you reported knocking and such I would look in this direction) hope you got warantee left, dont sound good manhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

OK -not to make this into another oil debate thread but.... how can you blame the difference in oil pressure on the fact that the oil is synthetic or not. Oil weight is oil weight. If it's 15W-40 then it's 15W-40 as certified by testing. I guess you could make the arguement that the oil is breaking down quicker and losing it's grade or it has less friction and is easier to "push" (which wouldn't be a bad thing if viscocity was maintained).

Am I way off base??http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Regular dino Exxon / Mobil Derivitive 15w-40


Stone Cold - 70psi


Above 40°F - 60 psi


Hot Idle - 40 psi


Hot Running - 60 psi

Correct me if I am wrong but even though SChaffers listes thier 7000 supprem as a 15w40 it actaually tests and has properties of a 7x(or close to)40. IIRC lower pour point=GOOD IMO

Close ratlover Schaeffer supreme 7000 #700 tests out closer to a 10-40 though it is certified and exceeds standards set.


Lower oil pressure ccould mean the oil is shearing down later in life.

You have mobil 1 stuff? I'm looking for a supplier of mobil 1 atf and since you are fairly close.....

Me ? No. Strictly Schaeffers. I will put our new 204s-at Alltrans supreme against anyone however. Exceeds mercon V, dexron h, allison c-4 fluids. cost effective to.

ditto on the mobil 1 vs the 204S

Running mobil 1 now and dont want to mix or change. JMO but want to stick with it.


I dont doubt schaffers stuff though, good chit IMOhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


I bought a case of oil from Eric, about the only thing I may need for awhile is some grease.

Eric's your man. I beleive he carries Moly E.P. synthetic blend grease 274 .

He's not my man, he is The Manhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Might need to add a tube of grease to my order of a headlight rodhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif and some misc filters

You high oil pressure guys have 00,01.02 trucks.

On the 03;s they lowered the pump pressure.

I have simmilar pressure to EMsi except I have 30psi at hot idel. Just a shade over 60psi while at 2k rpm too.

I have a '04 LB7--my oil pressure is HOT: One needle width below 30psi at idle and One needle width below 60psi at 65-68mph--2krpm.


This is with both Delvac 1 5W-40 and Amsoil 15W-40--synthetics. With Delvac 1--truck started consuming oil around 4K miles. With Amsoil--it started consuming oil around 5k. I just changed the Amsoil with more of the same at 6k--the dipstick was two notches down in about 1K miles(From 5k to 6k miles on oil).


The truck ran better(quieter) on the Amsoil versus Delvac 1.


I am going to try Schaeffers after this run with Amsoil. I have oil analysis for both the Amsoil and Delvac and will compare it with the Schaeffers.


Truck has 23.5K miles.

I'm running Amsoil's 5W-30 Diesel and Marine Synthetic because most of my driving is short trip, around town stuff and I like the quick flow at startup. And independent tests show a smaller wear scar by almost half for this oil compared to Delvac5W-40 syn in a four ball wear test.


I also run the Amsoil dual remote filter with a large full flow filter and a huge bypass filter. I have 1 year and 9000 miles on this oil, and I'm waiting now for the results on my oil analysis before I do anything further. I added 1 qt. in that 9k and hot idle pressure is just below 30. This is an '03 BTW.


PC, I still say you either have a bad gauge or an internal engine problem. I would start with trying a mechanical gauge of known accuracy installed from one of the pressure ports to compare.

PC,


Just changed my oil and I am running Mobil 1. Just went to Yuma, AZ from L.A. accross Hwy. 8 and it was africa hot out there. 108 degrees. I see very little drop with the synthetic. Dino idles at 30 or just under. Synthetic is running at one mark under 30. When pulling the fith wheel and really working the truck it has dropped to almost two marks under 30 a time or two. Always runs 60 cruising down the road with either oil. I had almost the same experience with straight dino on my last towing trip as synthetic, pressure drops were the same.


PC is right the 03 and up trucks don't seem to post the high pressure numbers the earlier trucks do. I don't know why. Never have tried Amsoil since it is not API certified and would void my warranty. I checked my manual a short time ago after that question came up on another thread and mine definately states API certified oil only. If Amsoil is so dang good why the heck won't they certify it like everyone else does? <aybe someone could give me a good answer on that.

PC sure seems to draw trouble card often. Amsoil on extended drain intervals, no pressure drop, no problems. Also running the dual filter remote w/ bypass filter.Edited by: FILO

P.C.


Take your truck to dealer you got a dam problem and get it taken care of instead of starting some more of your degrading a product. Talk to them before you start yo B.S.


Genohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Well here is my .02 cents....ahhhh lets make it a nickels worth.


I have used Redline synthetic since 10k miles. I have 90+ now. I change the oil at 10K miles faithfully. I change the oil filter every 5K. I do not analyze the oil. 10K miles and the oil is out. My oil pressure has been a steady 40psi at idle cold or hot and 75-80ish at speed. I track the amount of oil when I do the change. I have always had 9+ qts out in a change everytime. The rest is in the motor and whats left behind in the filter. I have never had to add any oil between the 10K intervals.


I still believe that most people miss the reason synthetic oils were developed. This was not so you got better engine life it was to reduce the populations oil consumption which is having a significant impact on the environment. The fact that it actually does work and extend engine life is a bonus. I find it amazing that people use synthetic oil and still change them at regular intervals. There is a similar debate happening on a boat page I am a member of. People are afraid of synthetic oils. Someone said something quite disturbing. "Nothing but the best for my baby, I change the oil every 20 hours" If everybody had this attitude our landfills would be filled with oil filters contaminated with oil and our water tables would soon be tainted. We all need to do our best to assist.


As for Problem Childs oil issue, His is a mechanical problem that needs to be looked at. Most DMax owners I associate with have similar oil pressures as I do.

OK I'll wade in. I agree mostly with what Duramax Dually said and add something as well of course. In my opinion extended oil change intervals for a Diesel with stock filtration dosen't make a lot of sense. Diesels soot up the oil usually prior to breakdown, especially if the truck is burning more than stock fuel. Personally I use Dino oil and change it every 5,000 to get the soot out. If you want to use synthetic and enjoy the benefits of extended oil change intervals I believe you would benefit from a high effiency (sp) bypass oil filter and may well want to leave the power adders alone.


Just my .02. Oh and I'm very far from being a petroleum engineer as well

a64pilot,


Me too.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I am far from a petroleum engineer. I am simply applying some good ol common sense and trying not to over complicate it.

I think GM (ISUZU division) probably knew what they were doing when they designed the oil life thinggie. It probably has a decent margin and it assumes that traditional oil will be used. Despite that I change when it says I have 20% oil life left, using Shell Rotella T 15W/40, same as I used in the 6.2 back in '87. I think synthetics are a waste of money, they may well provide "additional protection", but it is off the chart - I'm only hauling 4 horses.

The temperature/pressure thing seems to be related to filter temperature. In the winter I could get everything warmed up and see the low oil pressure on idle. After a short stop the idle oil pressure would come back up. By short I mean 10 or 15 minutes, enough to cool off a thin oil filter and its contents, but certainly not enough to cool off the engine block or radiator. I think its the filter medium "opening up" at temperature.

There's a whole raft of arguement about high/low pressure, viscosity, film strength and how they relate to lubrication. My belief is that high viscosity doesn't always equate to high film strength and that high oil pressure doesn't always mean good lubrication - in fact it could mean blocked oilways.
FWIW, etc.
If that was 2c worth I understand why nobody can make a living on the web.

Fred G. states.


"They say the majority of wear occurs in the first few seconds on a cold startup so to me syn is good investment if you're going to keep a vehicle for a long time."


80% of engine wear happens at start-up. This is one another area synthetics and good blends have an advantage.

Fred G. states.


"They say the majority of wear occurs in the first few seconds on a cold startup so to me syn is good investment if you're going to keep a vehicle for a long time."


80% of engine wear happens at start-up. This is one another area synthetics and good blends have an advantage.

Given that "regular" oil is good for a couple or three hundred thousand miles of stop/start driving the "advantage" may be real, but not significant to many/most owners. I will and DO spend money on improvements that have a good to fair probability of returning some savings during my anticipated ownership, but the >300K mile return doesn't interest me.

Arrbee wrote.


"I think GM (ISUZU division) probably knew what they were doing when they designed the oil life thinggie. It probably has a decent margin and it assumes that traditional oil will be used. Despite that I change when it says I have 20% oil life left, using Shell Rotella T 15W/40, same as I used in the 6.2 back in '87"

Arrbee wrote.


"I think GM (ISUZU division) probably knew what they were doing when they designed the oil life thinggie. It probably has a decent margin and it assumes that traditional oil will be used. Despite that I change when it says I have 20% oil life left, using Shell Rotella T 15W/40, same as I used in the 6.2 back in '87"








SALESREP, you going to finish your thought?


Blake

Arbee,


Again to my earlier post above, it is not about a wasting money. As with everything the push is to work on saving our environment. Synthetic oils(from what I have read) were developed by mandates by the EPA in conjunction with car manufacturers. We should now do our part rather than change your oil 4 times in 10-12K miles. Think about that for a moment, 40 qts of oil dumped somewhere along with 4 contaminated oil filters. Over the life of that truck some people will have changed out some some 500 qts of oil along with 50 oil filters. I do 2 filters and 10 qts in that same 10-12K miles. I am not worried if my motor heaves 10K miles less than the guy who changed his oil as most people do. One thing I think people are missing is the fact that GM(Isuzu) designed the motor with 10 qts not 6 qts. This must have some sort of bearing on how long the oil lasts. Most diesel rigs go 5 times longer than we do between oil changes.


This is kind of like the hybrid cars, they will eventually lead to electric cars. Now please do not get me wrong, I am not a hard core enviro freak, I am making efforts to reduce waste and pollutants. If it costs me $75 dollars to swap out oils and it is few bucks more than standard oil changed 4 times, I have done my part.

I am currently running a 10k drain on Schaefers 700 15w-40. Will have the oil analized to see how well it held up at the end of the run. If the oil can take 10k drains while still protecting the engine I am all for it, if not I will try another oil. Only downfall is I won't get to use my Fumoto valve as much. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Arbee,


Again to my earlier post above, it is not about a wasting money. As with everything the push is to work on saving our environment. Synthetic oils(from what I have read) were developed by mandates by the EPA in conjunction with car manufacturers. We should now do our part rather than change your oil 4 times in 10-12K miles. Think about that for a moment, 40 qts of oil dumped somewhere along with 4 contaminated oil filters. Over the life of that truck some people will have changed out some some 500 qts of oil along with 50 oil filters. I do 2 filters and 10 qts in that same 10-12K miles. I am not worried if my motor heaves 10K miles less than the guy who changed his oil as most people do. One thing I think people are missing is the fact that GM(Isuzu) designed the motor with 10 qts not 6 qts. This must have some sort of bearing on how long the oil lasts. Most diesel rigs go 5 times longer than we do between oil changes.


This is kind of like the hybrid cars, they will eventually lead to electric cars. Now please do not get me wrong, I am not a hard core enviro freak, I am making efforts to reduce waste and pollutants. If it costs me $75 dollars to swap out oils and it is few bucks more than standard oil changed 4 times, I have done my part.




I'm NOT changing my oil WAY too many times, I'm being cautious/conservative against the oil life monitor and despite the fact that I am towing quite a lot I change at ~8k miles, I don't think that is excessive or wasteful.
WRT the environment, I have it on very good authority that oil dumped on the ground is "absorbed by nature" in the top few feet of soil, i.e. it will spoil your garden, but not your well water. I should add that this statement was for mineral oil and may not be true for synthetics. My guess is that I'm sending less through the environmental cycle than many/most people with 10+ quart oil capacity engines (I think the 7.3 ford is > 13)
and what I do send around is more easily "digested".

Please provide references to your sources for the statements concerning EPA, etc. mandates concerning the development of synthetics. I'd like to read the FULL texts.

Arbee,



Again to my earlier post above, it is not about a wasting money. As with everything the push is to work on saving our environment. Synthetic oils(from what I have read) were developed by mandates by the EPA in conjunction with car manufacturers. We should now do our part rather than change your oil 4 times in 10-12K miles. Think about that for a moment, 40 qts of oil dumped somewhere along with 4 contaminated oil filters. Over the life of that truck some people will have changed out some some 500 qts of oil along with 50 oil filters. I do 2 filters and 10 qts in that same 10-12K miles. I am not worried if my motor heaves 10K miles less than the guy who changed his oil as most people do. One thing I think people are missing is the fact that GM(Isuzu) designed the motor with 10 qts not 6 qts. This must have some sort of bearing on how long the oil lasts. Most diesel rigs go 5 times longer than we do between oil changes.



This is kind of like the hybrid cars, they will eventually lead to electric cars. Now please do not get me wrong, I am not a hard core enviro freak, I am making efforts to reduce waste and pollutants. If it costs me $75 dollars to swap out oils and it is few bucks more than standard oil changed 4 times, I have done my part.








I'm NOT changing my oil WAY too many times, I'm being cautious/conservative against the oil life monitor and despite the fact that I am towing quite a lot I change at ~8k miles, I don't think that is excessive or wasteful.
WRT the environment, I have it on very good authority that oil dumped on the ground is "absorbed by nature" in the top few feet of soil, i.e. it will spoil your garden, but not your well water. I should add that this statement was for mineral oil and may not be true for synthetics. My guess is that I'm sending less through the environmental cycle than many/most people with 10+ quart oil capacity engines (I think the 7.3 ford is > 13)
and what I do send around is more easily "digested".

Please provide references to your sources for the statements concerning EPA, etc. mandates concerning the development of synthetics. I'd like to read the FULL texts.




ARE YOU KIDDING? Oil dumped in the ground won't hurt the well water? That's the stupidest statement ever posted on this site! I test ground water for a living, doing environmental studies. Let me tell you, when you dump your oil in the ground, it slowly moves downward, and once it hits the ground water, it spreads, contaminating it. Oil from the earth is thousands of feet BGS (below grade surface), whereas ground water can range from as little as a few feet to several hundred. Your statement is so incorrect its almost humorous. Try keeping your oil in a container and disposing at waste pick up locations instead of being an ignorant polluter.Edited by: duramaxtom

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Arrbee wrote.


"I think GM (ISUZU division) probably knew what they were doing when they designed the oil life thinggie. It probably has a decent margin and it assumes that traditional oil will be used. Despite that I change when it says I have 20% oil life left, using Shell Rotella T 15W/40, same as I used in the 6.2 back in '87"





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SALESREP, you going to finish your thought? Blake.


Shell Rotella has a very good detergency pkg. and is an excellent oil for "normal drains". Those in that camp should keep thier engine in good shape for 200k miles as he states.


The syn and specialty oil camp will indeed save money. Rule of thumb is generally about a 50% increase in drain intervals is break even, factoring in the cost of oil, filters, labor, disposal etc. So a double you come out ahead. Additonally the added mpg increase. Plus half again less time changing oil.


Two years ago UPS saved 330,000 quarts of oil. By extending drains. I guarentee saved money as well.


But it is not all about syn vs. dino. The additive pkg, base oil, and blending process play a huge part in what an oil is all about. Engine and oil technology has come a long ways the last 20 years. To compare oil drain intervals of 20 years past to today is a conservative view.

Thanks salesrep I've been awaiting your reply.


I'm a Delo 400 user but I give all my waste oil to a local truck shop and they use it in their shop heater.


Beats dumping it on the ground!Did that once with a few gallons of diesel and I ended up digging it all out by hand man what a mess!Seeing first hand how that spreads made a believer out of me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Blake

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Arrbee wrote.


"I think GM (ISUZU division) probably knew what they were doing when they designed the oil life thinggie. It probably has a decent margin and it assumes that traditional oil will be used. Despite that I change when it says I have 20% oil life left, using Shell Rotella T 15W/40, same as I used in the 6.2 back in '87"





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SALESREP, you going to finish your thought? Blake.


Shell Rotella has a very good detergency pkg. and is an excellent oil for "normal drains". Those in that camp should keep thier engine in good shape for 200k miles as he states.


The syn and specialty oil camp will indeed save money. Rule of thumb is generally about a 50% increase in drain intervals is break even, factoring in the cost of oil, filters, labor, disposal etc. So a double you come out ahead. Additonally the added mpg increase. Plus half again less time changing oil.


Two years ago UPS saved 330,000 quarts of oil. By extending drains. I guarentee saved money as well.


But it is not all about syn vs. dino. The additive pkg, base oil, and blending process play a huge part in what an oil is all about. Engine and oil technology has come a long ways the last 20 years. To compare oil drain intervals of 20 years past to today is a conservative view.

Clearly I am NOT using '87 New, Old Stock oil. The formulation has changed, I believe that Shell has kept up to date.

Arbee,



Again to my earlier post above, it is not about a wasting money. As with everything the push is to work on saving our environment. Synthetic oils(from what I have read) were developed by mandates by the EPA in conjunction with car manufacturers. We should now do our part rather than change your oil 4 times in 10-12K miles. Think about that for a moment, 40 qts of oil dumped somewhere along with 4 contaminated oil filters. Over the life of that truck some people will have changed out some some 500 qts of oil along with 50 oil filters. I do 2 filters and 10 qts in that same 10-12K miles. I am not worried if my motor heaves 10K miles less than the guy who changed his oil as most people do. One thing I think people are missing is the fact that GM(Isuzu) designed the motor with 10 qts not 6 qts. This must have some sort of bearing on how long the oil lasts. Most diesel rigs go 5 times longer than we do between oil changes.



This is kind of like the hybrid cars, they will eventually lead to electric cars. Now please do not get me wrong, I am not a hard core enviro freak, I am making efforts to reduce waste and pollutants. If it costs me $75 dollars to swap out oils and it is few bucks more than standard oil changed 4 times, I have done my part.








I'm NOT changing my oil WAY too many times, I'm being cautious/conservative against the oil life monitor and despite the fact that I am towing quite a lot I change at ~8k miles, I don't think that is excessive or wasteful.
WRT the environment, I have it on very good authority that oil dumped on the ground is "absorbed by nature" in the top few feet of soil, i.e. it will spoil your garden, but not your well water. I should add that this statement was for mineral oil and may not be true for synthetics. My guess is that I'm sending less through the environmental cycle than many/most people with 10+ quart oil capacity engines (I think the 7.3 ford is &gt; 13)
and what I do send around is more easily "digested".

Please provide references to your sources for the statements concerning EPA, etc. mandates concerning the development of synthetics. I'd like to read the FULL texts.




ARE YOU KIDDING? Oil dumped in the ground won't hurt the well water? That's the stupidest statement ever posted on this site! I test ground water for a living, doing environmental studies. Let me tell you, when you dump your oil in the ground, it slowly moves downward, and once it hits the ground water, it spreads, contaminating it. Oil from the earth is thousands of feet BGS (below grade surface), whereas ground water can range from as little as a few feet to several hundred. Your statement is so incorrect its almost humorous. Try keeping your oil in a container and disposing at waste pick up locations instead of being an ignorant polluter.

PLEASE read (& understand) what it is that you are responding to before replying.

I DO NOT dump used oil on the ground and did not say anywhere in my post that I do. I was quoting a source who had commented on biodegradation, thats all.

Here in Cali we have to turn our oil back into the auto parts store where they recycle it.

Most auto parts stores will take the oil back.

They use the oil to create make-up for Hillary and Tami Fey. :)

OK Ok...I think we may have drifted off a bit here....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Arbee: The information I read about oil development requirements were from engineering digests I receive at work. Some were from 6-8 years ago when synthetics really started to hit the main stream. The "Readers Digest" version was the EPA, Automotive oil producers and automotive engine builders were asked to find means to reduce consumption of fossil fuel/petroleum products(Similiar to the mandate to reduce emissions). Synthetics were the direction they all headed. This is why Mercedes, Porsche, highend Acura's, the Corvette and others now install synthetics as standard oil with extended drain mileage. As for your post, I interpreted, as did many, that you said it does not migrate past the first few feet of sand...I can safely say you are DEAD WRONG. Ask some of the auto repair businesses with looming civil law suits about contaminated grounds. Oil is the worst along with solvents.


My walking into this thread was to state that synthetic oils offer huge benefits over conventional oils and more importantly environment concerns. I am doing my part and using them. I tow a lot of various stuff as well and have since 500 miles on the truck. You should be more worried about the tranny fluid(which by the way I have synthetics installed)


Edited by: Duramax Dually

Well here is my .02 cents....ahhhh lets make it a nickels worth.


I have used Redline synthetic since 10k miles. I have 90+ now. I change the oil at 10K miles faithfully. I change the oil filter every 5K. I do not analyze the oil. 10K miles and the oil is out. My oil pressure has been a steady 40psi at idle cold or hot and 75-80ish at speed. I track the amount of oil when I do the change. I have always had 9+ qts out in a change every time. The rest is in the motor and whats left behind in the filter. I have never had to add any oil between the 10K intervals.


I still believe that most people miss the reason synthetic oils were developed. This was not so you got better engine life it was to reduce the populations oil consumption which is having a significant impact on the environment. The fact that it actually does work and extend engine life is a bonus. I find it amazing that people use synthetic oil and still change them at regular intervals. There is a similar debate happening on a boat page I am a member of. People are afraid of synthetic oils. Someone said something quite disturbing. "Nothing but the best for my baby, I change the oil every 20 hours" If everybody had this attitude our landfills would be filled with oil filters contaminated with oil and our water tables would soon be tainted. We all need to do our best to assist.


As for Problem Childs oil issue, His is a mechanical problem that needs to be looked at. Most DMax owners I associate with have similar oil pressures as I do.








Boy I have to disagree about the reason synthetic oils were developed. It had nothing to do with land fills. Where in the world did you get that corny idea? Do you really think synthetics were developed because some company really cared about the environment? We worked with a few early companies in the late 1960's with some test engines, and the real reason for the development of the synthetic was purely from a performance stand point. Oils back then were horrible, couldn't take the heat, and lost their additives very quickly. Many saw the need to produce a stable, long lasting, low viscosity oil that could survive high heat and loading. Nothing to do with landfills.

Maybe the syn was created to save the spotted owls?

I know for a fact that one of the local parts stores just sends it down to one of their customers to burn in his stinking waste oil shop heater - and I do NOT mean the kind with a catalytic after burner or any other sort of environment protecting device.

WRT what gets dumped on the ground, its so much DIFFERENT when state and local governments have contractors lay it on the ground for us to drive on. OK, there might be a few inches of crushed rock and gravel laid down first, for the better roads. Oh, tar is "different" ?
Yes, there's so much more of it. Don't tell me its too thick and insoluble to polute the ground water.

Then there's the oceans and rivers, another place that is ok for state and local authorities to dump large quanti**** of concentrated waste, but not individuals.
Ever see town trucks back up to the local river to dump salt laden snow removed from local roads ?

We're drowning in our own swill.

Aren't politics a wonderful thang.

If your worried about wear on start-up you could install a Pre-oiler. They were developed and are used in the aviation engines. And they have applications for trucks now.


I'm running Amsoil 15W-40. Running sythetics to aid in starting as it gets pretty cold here. Last winter it was -47F for close to a week. But at that temp not much goes on anyway. Stay indoors and look at the DIESEL PLACE.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Flylow, Are you using or considering an Amsoil pre-oiler [they call it AMS-Oiler}?


I use Amsoil15w40 syn 9 months out of year and Delvac in winter. In cold temps synthetic are the best way to go.

I am stunned that anyone would dump their oil just out onto the ground.

Thats NASTY stuff. Tons of warnings about how you may get cancer from just having it on your hands, let along as a drink.

I sure hope your neighbors dont have wells.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

If your worried about wear on start-up you could install a Pre-oiler. They were developed and are used in the aviation engines. And they have applications for trucks now.


I'm running Amsoil 15W-40. Running sythetics to aid in starting as it gets pretty cold here. Last winter it was -47F for close to a week. But at that temp not much goes on anyway. Stay indoors and look at the DIESEL PLACE.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif





Heres a nice pump that would be good as a pre oiler or many other applications.



http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/mocpmp.jpg


This 12v fluid circulation pump is suitable for various applications: transmission / differential / rear end cooling, turbo oiling, water intercoolers, cool suits etc. The motor is equipped with ball bearing drive and integral cooling fan for long life. The pump is self priming, meaning it can be mounted above the liquid level, and is capable of handling fluid temps up to 300 degrees F. Nylon pump head/housing with viton diaphragm / seals. Pump head can be indexed 90 degrees for convenient fluid connections.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<UL>
<LI>Flow rate 1.0-2.0 GPM and up to 54 PSI
<LI>WT 3.5 lbs.
<LI>3/8" NPT fittings
<LI>8 amp current draw </LI>[/list]</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRMax, I haven't really looked into the ams-oiler? Are there any others that are running these units on their trucks?

[QUOTE=salesrep]Many times when switching oils it takes one or two drains for the new oil to "take". You can get a conflict with detergency and additive packages.QUOTE]


This guys posts make sense and this is true. After over 20 years experience with supplying lubricants to the PCMO and more specifically the FCI (fleet, commercial, industrial) industry segments I can say that when a major fleet changes from one product to another the result is often alarming and a dissapointment to the customer. There are frequently consumption issues and a good sales person hand-holds the customer through the change over by educating them on the fact that changing lubricants formulations can require an adjustment period.


FWIW I use Delvac 1300, change at 6000 miles, usually lose 1/4 to 1/2 quart on the dipstick, and I expect to go 250-300k miles easily.


Synthetic lubricants can be beneficial in extreme heat and cold but if the engine's fuel and cooling systems are working properly the LB7 and LLY engines should last a LONG time on conventional CI-4 spec product. Using the same brand every time may even help the engine go farther.


Problem Child- even though I am no fan of Amsoil products I tend to agree with the others that say your problem isn't oil related but if you had a similar issue with Delvac1 I am stumped as to what might be going on. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Good luck Man!

...Heres a nice pump that would be good as a pre oiler or many other applications.


http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/mocpmp.jpg





Tommy,


Hmmm... inventing another cool mod ?? ...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif ... I guessing you have been thinking of how to plumb this into the duramax ??? http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

...Heres a nice pump that would be good as a pre oiler or many other applications.


http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/mocpmp.jpg





Tommy,


Hmmm... inventing another cool mod ?? ...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif ... I guessing you have been thinking of how to plumb this into the duramax ??? http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif








Hadn't really found a definite place for it yet but I have thought about the idea of a pre/post luber. Compared to other pre/post lubers this one is relatively inexpensive and would be a simple install that can also be transfered to future vehicles. And you're right it would be another cool new toy. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I am 100% with TraceF on this one.Dropped the Delvac 1 8,000 miles ago and not looking back.

Running Delvac 1300 15W40 dino oil to 6500-7500 change intervals. Getting back good oil analysis reports. TBN was at 10.6, with 6700 miles on oil, 22,000 on unit.

Delvac 1300 here also. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

Right now I'm going thru the Synthetic or Dino debate. It seems to me that as long as you change the oil on a regular basis (I change my Rotella 15W-40 every 100-125 hours) that any oil will be fine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't soot the biggest enemy no matter what oil it is? I have not been able to find any negative things about any oil other than oil pressure fluxuations, even the people that have their oil tested don't say anything bad about any oils (Problemchild excluded but others have suggested his truck may have issues) People that use synthetics seem to love it and the people that don't seem to be wondering what they are missing, at least thats where I'm at.The cost is really the only difference I see. If you use synthetic it will cost anywhere from 40-60 dollars per oil change and dino around 30. Some synthetic folks people change the filters somewhere around 5K so add another $10ish for that to bring the total to 70 dollars per oil cycle vs $30x2=$60 every10,000 miles for dinohttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif. Seems like the only way we'll ever know anything is after the mileage gets WAY up there to see what, if any benefits there really are.

If you use synthetic it will cost anywhere from 40-60 dollars per oil change and dino around 30. Some synthetic folks people change the filters somewhere around 5K so add another $10ish for that to bring the total to 70 dollars per oil cycle vs $30x2=$60 every10,000 miles for dinohttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif. Seems like the only way we'll ever know anything is after the mileage gets WAY up there to see what, if any benefits there really are.


Now lets see, if you are paying $7 a gallon thats $17.50 for oil and $8 for a filter or $25.50 total on dino, and most are changing every 7K or so. Synthetic would cost you $40 on oil and $9 for the filter times 2 or $18. Total for running 15K miles and changing filter at 7.5K miles $58. So you have the waste oil which is very good and all the benifits of a synthetic for only $7 more. I could waste that every week going to Starbucks for coffee.





Greg

I think a few people have brought out that the primary advantage of syn is it's possible to have extended oil drain intervals. Because of the soot if you go the syn route and extended drain intervals I believe you should invest in a bypass filter for soot removal. Most of us seem to like the Dmax for it's performance potential. Syn does nothing for performance. Hopping up a diesel will most likely increase soot level in the oil and shorten it's life thereby eliminating some of the advantages of syn.


Most advocayes of syn are of the type that want their truck to last a very long time. 100,000's of miles. They are not usually the performance enhancement type. They are the type to add secondary fuel filtration, bypass oil filters etc.


This may be the reason for there seeming to be views on syn vs dyno in the diesel world. On spark ignition engines syn makes sense in performance enhanced engines, maybe not so much in diesels. For the record I run syn in everything including the lawnmowers except my Diesels.

I think the benefits for SYN are better flow at cold temperatures/startup and does not breakdown as rapidly as Dino.


However--as far as cost goes--to me--it is not that much. It cost me around $40.00 for the oil--Amsoil 15W-40 and $5.00 for the baldwin filter. That is about $20.00 bucks more per oil change compared to about $25.00 for dino. If I go longer drain--then it is less.


It seems there is a lot of talk about very little money.


I will try the Schaeffers blend--which could be lower cost--but it seems to me--especially with the new Sulfurless fuel already here--soot is probably going to be reduced and for a small amount of money more--the benefits of Syn can be had.

It is really a people thing. If you knew an oil was better. Why wouldn't one spend an extra $8-12 per oil change to protect a 30-50k investment? Some will never spend the buck or rationalize it has worked for 50 years why change. Or they just like changing oil. There will always be a market ( in any industry,product,etc.) for low quality, avg. quality and superior quality. The masses will buy inferior or mainstrem qualilty (min. specs.) and the smaller percentages will buy higher quality and reap both short and long term benefits. As the saying goes a Ford Focus and a Ferrari will both get you there, but they are not the same.


My .02 cents which is really a lot less calculating out the cost benefits of a High quality oil over the lifetime of your vehicle divided by miles, hours, years.

Parts protected by engine oil in a diesel engine will usually last way longer than the truck. These parts will often last 300K or better miles as the fuel is a lubricant in itself. Benefits of Syn oil IMO is near N/A unless you are running extended drains / bypass filtration. $20 may seem to be nothing to most people but for me it's a cold case of beer. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

$20 may seem to be nothing to most people but for me it's a cold case of beer. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Ohhh! Rub it in Mr. Big-Spender. That's 4 cases of beer to me!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: skoryaro2

This topic just keeps coming and going and the scientific data remains the same. Synthetics are superior in every measurable way. You either believe they are worth the money or you don't. Now if you don't believe this statement you haven't done your home work. Later! Frank

Well...I am back....This thread is quite interesting, enjoyable and most definitely informative.


My comment on Synthetics being enviromentally friendly was the information I read. Now as we all know you cannot always believe what you read. But the theory is sound along with superior properties for thermal and viscosity break downs. I guess for me and my personal use if I am changing my oil 2x less then a conventional oil user than I am using 2x less oil. Out here in California (Since California sets the EPA standards for every other state not that I like it mind you) we are constantly mandated to reduce use of natural resources. So by using 20 qts less oil Again I am doing my part. Although concerned about ROI, as we all are, a few bucks more for the oil and having to lay under my truck 2 less times is money well spent. heck with the time saved I can wash my truck 2X more and have a ice cold Soda.


I guess this debate could go on forever, but as I see it, soon you will not have an option. All cars will come fully equipped from the maker with synthetic oils and only the old cars will have conventional oil requirements. Look at Mercedes, Acura and so on, they now have it where the tranny and rearend is not even serviceable...I suspect this will be the trend going forward..Just drive them until they die...


Carry on....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

While I believe in some of the benefits of Syn oil as mentioned above I don't believe it will be the reason that an engine last as long as the truck. When a truck as a whole is expired from it's usefull life what more is the engine than just being something to look at. I will not debate this subject because it can go on forever and everyone has their reasons for using what they use and thats OK. When someone says that syn is superior does it really matter when compared to one that is more than adequate for the useful life of the vehicle as a whole. We currently run industrial engines at 90-100% of their rated HP on dino for upwards of 5 years or 45000 hrs based on oil analysis alone so the statement of superiority is not as important to ME. Like I said before I agree with some of the benefits of syn oil but for my applications I will not rush out to buy any. 7.5 K w/ dino suits me fine.


As the thread title says this is just my .02 so to each his oun.

I agree with A BEAR

My pontiac grand am (salesman car) had 536,000 miles on it.
The engine got regular old dino oil every 4500 miles.

The car was history but the motor was still running strong. I finally blew it up going up a hill with a 90% plugged radiator. It over heated her and cracked the block.