Just curious, with even LBZ rods bending, etc.....has anyone looked into Titanium rods? I mean if you're gonna dump $25k into a truck with tranny, turbo, dual Cp3's, etc, might as well spend an extra 3-4$k for stuff that will hold together for at least a year.

Thats why people are using crower, tts and carillo rods with their builds.

Titanium rods are very,very expensive and they don't like harmonic vibrations which would be a issue for a diesel.

How much more expensive? Why are they more susceptible to harmonics than forged steel?

Nobody has broken the forged rods so why go to Ti?

I see...so no rod failures from forged or billet 4340? If not, i would agree.....no need:)

So, how much typically for a 4340 rod built DMAX? $10,000?

you can get rods for under $3k

Titaniumk rods are generally used where a reduction in rotating and reciprocating weight is desirable. Almost as strong as steel, almost as light as aluminum.

Bottom line, lighter parts accelerate faster and that is free HP.

We had a Titanium rod option program for some of our Circle motors years ago. The acceleration rate of a light weight bobweight motor is a thing of beauty. :D

Hell yea. I know that 911GT3-R cup cars use Ti-carillo rods because of the reduced reciprocating mass.

I take it with the weight of the rotating assembly of these motors Ti would be unnescessary and because of Ti's slightly reduced tensile strength compared to billet you would want to stay with 4340 right?

Damn, Ti-rods in a circle track program? Must'a'been some bucks to run that series:D

So, $3k for rods and about $1k for pistons on an LBZ block? How much to have a whole LBZ motor built?

Also, why is it they use cast instead of forged pistons? Rings? etc?

I have no idea what the heck the phrase "don't like harmonic vibrations" means. Sounds like hooey.

Trippin's got it right, you do them for weight reduction. Titanium is not the miracle beats-all metal some people make it out to be. Yes, some alloys have very high strengths, up there with the high-end steel alloys like 4340.

However, the thing most people forget about is that the stiffness of Ti is about half that of steel alloys. This means that even if the yield strength is very high, it still compresses (on a micro-level). Not permanently, mind you, but it's less stiff than steel (which also compresses on a micro-level). The makers usually compensate by making the rod a bit larger in dimension, making it mechanically stiffer by design. And as such, you lose a little of the density (weight) advantage.

And this is why even though Ti is 40% less dense that steel, a Ti rod of equivalent strength does not weigh 40% less. Maybe 25-35% less. It's not a size-for-size replacement.

Fatigue life is a concern. I don't have any handbooks in front of me comparing 4340 fatigue life to that of something like Ti-6Al-4V, but I'll check. I don't think the Ti alloys are as good as some of the steels in this respect but I have to see some data first.

And, the material these days is wicked expensive and extremely hard to get. If you're not Boeing, you could be SOL. Prices have come down in recent months from the insane levels of this summer, but are still "up there."

Charlie you need to read the piston discussion thread for the answer about pistons.

In short, the OEM cast piston has a hollow oil gallery in it for cooling, and also has a steel receiver ring cast in it to keep the top ring from pounding out. Neither can be achieved in a billet piece.

"I have no idea what the heck the phrase "don't like harmonic vibrations" means. Sounds like hooey."


Obviously you have never ran or purchased Titanium rods for a motor. We ran them in our pro-street car and at freshen up they were examined and found small fractures which was ultimatly determined to be related to a harmonic vibration but I don't remember the frequency.

Just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean crap until you run it in a real world senerio. Your comment with the word "fooey" doesn't hold water in my book because you haven't spent the big money and experienced the issues first hand. Unless you have actually ran these parts you aren't going to know how they will hold up. Most of the original issues have been resolved by Sonny and a few other of the top engine builders. At the time I was running them, it was a $8000 option for a 812CI motor. The small block engines didn't seem to have as many issues but they did have a few. There have been many improvements to the metal and other areas to help with the issues but they are still to expensive to justify.

It's amazing what will and won't work when someone TRY'S something in real life! Read all you want, The best education is real life(been there done that kind of thing). What org did you run pro street with? I have run some of the street stuff myself. I wanted to meet you at the pull this weekend and talk to you about the LBZ. I was there Fri night but was unable to make it sat. Thanks Jeff

"I have no idea what the heck the phrase "don't like harmonic vibrations" means. Sounds like hooey."


Obviously you have never ran or purchased Titanium rods for a motor. We ran them in our pro-street car and at freshen up they were examined and found small fractures which was ultimatly determined to be related to a harmonic vibration but I don't remember the frequency.

Just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean crap until you run it in a real world senerio. Your comment with the word "fooey" doesn't hold water in my book because you haven't spent the big money and experienced the issues first hand. Unless you have actually ran these parts you aren't going to know how they will hold up. Most of the original issues have been resolved by Sonny and a few other of the top engine builders. At the time I was running them, it was a $8000 option for a 812CI motor. The small block engines didn't seem to have as many issues but they did have a few. There have been many improvements to the metal and other areas to help with the issues but they are still to expensive to justify.


Geez, Ric, did I catch you in a bad mood?

Because, it's rather obvious, that you've never designed, forged, or rolled titanium alloys.

Get my point? We're talking about fatigue here. Your phrase "don't like harmonic vibrations" is a rather gross generalization.

And you know as well as I do, spending a lot of money doesn't say anything about how much one really knows.

Can we be friends again? Or is this one going south too? We all need to get back to the pulling track!

We all need to get back to the pulling track!


That says it all right there. To much bickering because to much spare time.:D

GM runs titanium rods in their 7.0 liter engine. They have it turned up to 650hp I heard.

Yeah, sorry for being cranky.

Better stated, my point is that titanium conrods can work very well. You just have to take into account the idiosyncrasies of the alloy, and design around them.