After getting about 35,000 miles out of the last injection pump installed by the dealer, I am making sure I do everything I can to buy the right stuff this time.


First, I purchased a remote FSD/PMD and installed it.


http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/images/products/fullsize/6-ALT1-20040730193223.jpg


My next step is to figure out the best place to get an injection pump and hopefully one that might last longer than 15 months, granted it was about 35,000 miles.


I've upgraded the exhaust and have some other modifications that I am not sure about, but I'd like to make the vehicle last as long as possible. Right now we are at 170,000 and put a new 4l80E in at about 113,000.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

diesel pro and texas diesel guy both work in pump shops and could say a few things. I just switched pumps myself.

Thanks, I guess I am truly ignorant when it comes ot all of this stuff. I'm no mechanic and not inclined to learn all the ins and outs, but I would like to avoid making any more mistakes as I feel like I have.


Maybe 35,000 is all I should expect out of a pump, but it sort of stings a little. ;)


I've got a good mechanic that I trust, but he works at a dealership and is not very up to date on the aftermarket stuff.


Thanks again,Edited by: Mexico

You should expect 100,000+ . I guess it fell a little short. Chips and high # fuel calibration resistors may wear the fuel solenoid and FSD prematurely.

Mexico,


I am willing to bet you, that the PMD is the culprit here, not the entire IP. 99% of the time, a PMD problem is misdiagnosed as an IP problem. Do you honestly think these pumps were designed to only last 35k miles? However, I can tell you that 35k miles sounds about right for a stock mounted PMD.





By the way, the remote PMD you have a link to is worthless. Either get a harness long enough to mount the PMD in front of the radiator outside the hot engine bay, or just leave it on the pump. The pump is the best place you can have the PMD if you leave it in the hot engine bay.

Ouch.


Sounds like I just spent $385 for nothing. I'm sure the pump is bad, I replaced the PMD first to see with the above remote kit to see if it would solve the problem, but it did not. Cleared most of the codes, but 251 and 370 were still there.
<DIV>251 is "injection pump cam system error", and 370 is "Timing reference high resolution", ususlly indicatiing a failed optical sensor, which is a major internal part.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Right now I'll need to find out if I can take the kit I just bought and extend it out to the grill or bumper as you mention. As I said, I am not mechanically inclined (I can catch fish in a toilet though LOL) but I do know some guys who I could get to help me. I'll need a source for parts and some good information.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seems like everytime I find someone I think knows what they are talking about, someone else says something different. I bought that FSD/PMD in good faith thinking it would be a better solution and found out I wasted $385.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just frustrated....</DIV>Edited by: Mexico

It's possible to change the optical sensor out, I've done it and had it work. They cost $275 or so. I'd buy that first.

Hey Mexico;


Now that you have the PMD spend $90 more get an extension from John Kennedy Diesel get a 72 inch one and mount it out of the engine bay. If you put a new pump on you can leave the PMD on the pump for a back up. My pump was changed at GM cost at 27,000 miles, on this second pump I'm on the 3rd PMD/FSD but the pump is still good 143,000 miles later. I would suggest you use a good fuel additive like Power Service you'll get better mileage and long pump and injector life I use it with every tank if I don't forget. (usally don't). I wouldn't say you wasted $385 you just need to go that extra block to finish the race. You don't have to be a good mechanic to re mount this thing in a good spot many of us can give you idea's where to mount it and how to do it. Even a 7 thumb deweeb like me can do it.

Thanks.


Talked to the guy at SS Diesel again and he swears that his heat sink will help that PMD outlast the truck. Maybe I should have asked what the warranty period was??!!


Anyway, thanks for all the help. Heard of Kennedy at the 6.5 Page site and tried to call him and never got called back. The SS Diesel guy has been very responsive, even though the majority feels that the remote is worse than the original.


Any thoughts on where to get a pump or should I have my mechanic get the GM one and go with his install? He puts a new pump in for $1000 installed.


Thanks again,

$1000 installed is good for a dealer pump. I guess you'd rather do that than get an optical and have your mechanic put it in but with 35,000 what's to loose trying, you'll have to fork it over as a core for that $1000, right?

$1000 installed is good for a dealer pump. I guess you'd rather do that than get an optical and have your mechanic put it in but with 35,000 what's to loose trying, you'll have to fork it over as a core for that $1000, right?





If they want the old one as a core find out how much the core cost are, in case you want to keep it. or someone else would like to buy it from you.

I'm not sure I understand what that means, he takes my old pump, puts a new one in and takes $1000 from me.


That is how it worked the last time.


Anyone try water/fuel seperators? If so are they worth it? Another Diesel place here in town swears they are what extens the life of the pump.

I had a bad ride home from water in the tank that ended with an optical failure. The water seperator may extend the life of the pump since water is the only thing that it can't take.

This all started with a bad tank of gas!





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

New pump from the dealer might cost more that a grand. Did they put a new one in or maybe a rebuilt one? New is the way to go if you want longevity. Rebuilts can be good if they change every worn part. But if they did it, the pump might cost as much as a new one.


The percentage of failed pumps we get in the shop is 25% PMD,20%encoder,40% internal components,10% misdiagnosis,5% rust damage.

I know at my place a new pump alone they said costs over $1750, possibly more. Ive asked around if it is possible to rebuild these pumps but they said they parts serperate would cost as much as the pump itself. I think its a waste - all the pumps we swap out now just get tossed in the scrap metal heap. Anyone have any ideas if there are aftermarket parts to rebuild these?

The guy from SS Diesel sells a "completely" ebuilt pump replacing "all" internal parts for $599.


Sounds like the way to go on the surface, but I am going to ask my mechanic if he puts a new pump in or a rebuild.


The pump is definitely bad on mine, and I don't want to spend a grand every 35k miles. Sounds like I need to do a remote extension and then get a new or good rebuilt pump.


After that, I'll want to keep picking the brains here for info on how to make mine work better for its task as boat hauler in the mountains.


Any reccomendations on where to get an extension kit?


Thanks again,Edited by: Mexico

I think Heath diesel and Kennedy diesel sell one for around $90 that plugs in. Mine is just 6-3.5' lengths of wire sodered in between the connector and the Wiring harness and wrapped in a wire loom($3). I screwed the cooler down with self tapping screws in front of the radiator.

I'm going to upgrade the fan to the Duramax fan and I'm sure I can even figure out how to put some screws in to mount mine in front of the radiator.


I'm assuming I should mount it with the PMD facing the engine box. Again, forgive my ignorance as I am trying to learn all the terminology of whats under the hood. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

It's a matter of preference at that point. I have the driver outfront and it's covered in love bugs right now. Edited by: quantum mechanic

Mexico,


I wouldn't consider what you bought a waste of money since you will use the cooler, just in a different location.

The guy from SS Diesel sells a "completely" ebuilt pump replacing "all" internal parts for $599.


Sounds like the way to go on the surface, but I am going to ask my mechanic if he puts a new pump in or a rebuild.


After that, I'll want to keep picking the brains here for info on how to make mine work better for its task as boat hauler in the mountains.


Any reccomendations on where to get an extension kit?


Thanks again,





Hey Mexico;


The SS guy pumps are less PMD which is about a $250 item so with the pump from the dealer you will get a PMD and if you leave that driver there you can have a spare on the pump to plug into if your other craps out. Most good rebuilt pumps run from $800-$1,000 Kennedy Diesel did have a limited number of new pumps for awhile for $950 which was fair price. So if you can get a new or quality rebuilt form a dealer at $1,000 installed and timing set that's a good price. How long will they back it? Since they will have to set the IP timing have them set the TD offset somewhere from -1.5 to -1.94 you will pick up some performance with that setting and you won't have to pay later to have it changed.


I would get Kennedy;s extension it is probally the best out there and John will make any length you want, (get 72") so you can put that heat sink any where you like. here's links http://www.kennedydiesel.com/


Both Kennedy and Heath Diesel are good vendors I would and will buy things again from both.


http://www.heathdiesel.com/


John K has a 6.5TD and has worked on them for years Bill Heath owns a 6.5 and several of his guys in the shop have 6.5's and they have provided 6.5 items for years.

I've called Bill Heath and spoke to him and am going to start a dialogue.


Seems like a great guy, my biggest problem will be finding a mechanic here to entertain the aftermarket equip.


He guarantees the pump for one year.

I'm going to upgrade the fan to the Duramax fan and I'm sure I can even figure out how to put some screws in to mount mine in front of the radiator.


I'm assuming I should mount it with the PMD facing the engine box. Again, forgive my ignorance as I am trying to learn all the terminology of whats under the hood. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





If you are refereing to the fan and clutch that SS diesel sells, you might want to reconsider. There are some real unhappy people over the thedieselpage that bought them.

I'm going to hold off on any purchases until I can talk to Bill a little more.


Hopefully I can sort through the fog and make some better decisions.


This stuff seems to be fairly straight forward until you do some research and then it is a can of worms.


Why are some people unhappy?

The percentage of failed pumps we get in the shop is 25% PMD,20%encoder,40% internal components,10% misdiagnosis,5% rust damage.


Thats interesting, I would have to say atleast 5% of our cores attempted to burn gasoline, about the same water damage, 30% CT/FSOL problems, only about 10% Optic Sensor, and here lately 50% had failed ESO Solenoids, never had much problem with them after they changed to the new style, but the newer the cores the more trouble were seeing with them for some reason. Must be a manufacturing problem, can't imagine anything else. I pulled the armature out of mine for fear of it failing so I'm safe ;)

Another way for these injection pumps to fail is to over heat. The only thing cooling these pumps down is fuel. When it's hot outside don't run the tank down to nothing. The fuel going back to the tank is heated up from the injection process. The tank acts like a giant heat sink. Not enough fuel in the tank it can't get rid of the heat so it's still too warm going back forward and the cycle gets worse.


We have about twenty 6.5's at work going back to '95 and we've NEVER replaced an injection pump. The tanks are topped off every night. The engines run all day long.


I think as long as the ambient temps are cool then the tank level issue gets less.

Filling the tank regularly does certainly have its benifits, in addition to supplying the pump with cooler fuel, it also eliminates the possibility of condensation in the tank and turning on your water in fuel light and emptying your pocket.

well while were talkin about helpin the life of the pump, what is the best fuel additive for this purpose?


i have used stanadyne (too pricey) and power service (price is right, couldnt really tell mileage difference though).


would like to try in the future schaeffer's and lucas oil's additives.

Too pricey? where are you buying your Stanadyne stuff from? We sell it for 5 something a bottle for JR, and 10 something for Performance Formula in the smaller bottles, you should easily make that up in mileage. Racor sells a good one too, but its a little higher.

the only local place that sells the perf formula is a new holland tractor dealer. i think they were chargin more than 10 last time i bought some. wish i could find the jr. somewhere. according to the website that looks like a nice little additive, at a very reasonable price.


i guess im gonna have to buy another bottle of the perf formula and see if i can tell a difference in mileage or not. i have went through 2 gallons of silver power service and cant say that my mileage has gotten any better.Edited by: steiner43511

JR doesn't do a much at all for mileage, but it treats 4x as much fuel for half the cost. I never noticed a difference with Power Service either for mileage, although their stuff claims to have Cetane improvers as well. I don't know, Stanadyne and Racor both smell the same to me, and everything else smells different, not as strong, and they don't seem to stack up as well to me, thats just MHO. Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Thanks again guys.


Replaced the lift pump on the advice of Bill Heath and it did not solve the major problem, but at least I learned how to change a lift pump. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


I'm hopefully going to get in touch with John Kennedy, but again I called, left a message and have not gotten a call back. That, IMHO, is not the way to get business, but then again, he may have as much as he wants.


I'm going to give Bill a call back and talk to him again, although I'd like to get the fan and clutch from Kennedy, just am weary about ordering without talking over some stuff with him. (like how to install it and if I can do it on my own)


Still haven't heard back from Ruben and I sent him a PM, I'll also try to email him. It would be nice to get in touch with a good 6.5 owner/mechanic.