Well, I was kind of bored yesterday when I got home so I decided I'd finally see if I could do anything to gain a little power from my worn out injection pump...

I started by pulling the intake. I considered attempting to do it without pulling the intake, but I opened the hood and saw right away it wasn't going to happen. ):h

Once I had the intake off I started investigating what I could do from there... Since my engine is pretty dirty I started by spraying the whole area down with brake cleaner, brushing the pump with a wire brush, and rinsing it down again with brake cleaner. This worked well... For the first time I was able the read the numbers on the pump (I think it was 4425, but I don't know for sure - should have written it down, but I don't care enough :rolleyes:).

I then pulled the line off of the IP inlet and removed the inlet fitting. I gave the adjustment screw in the pump inlet 1/2 a turn. I put that all together and decided that while I had it apart I might as well turn the pump up a bit... I removed the cover and used a method I learned from one of Dieselpro's old posts to line up the screw. It had already been turned up a bit, so I only gave it a little bit more. I'm guessing it is up about 1/8-1/6 turn.

I put it all back together and reinstalled the intake. Of course after I did all this there wasn't much fuel left in the IP so it took some cranking to get it fired up... Since my batteries and starter are pretty weak at this point it didn't go well. It would have fired up pretty easily if my batteries were any good, but the batteries in my truck are really only good for about ten seconds of cranking. I don't know if anybody here has ever attempted to jumpstart one of these things off of a gasser, but it doesn't work very well (especially when the gasser doesn't want to stay running because of a big vacuum leak at the manifold :rolleyes:).

I finally did get it fired up... What a difference! It really runs good now... I took it out for a test drive and it really has quite a bit more power than it did before. It sounds better, too.

The advance piston is kind of doing something now... When I push the advance lever in at idle it kind of stumbles a bit. It isn't doing a lot, but at least it is doing something... ):h

I took some pics while I was doing this. I'll see if I can post them in a little bit...

Unfortunately, these are the only ones that turned out. The rest of the pictures were very blurry and I'm not sure why. Maybe there is something wrong with the camera. Anyway, here's two that turned out... Please ignore how dirty my engine is... :rolleyes:

wow, and I thought my pump was dirty

looks like you still got the stock snorkel hooked up. Take that out and add a 4" dryer hose, that'll help a lot too.

wow, and I thought my pump was dirty
if you think that is dirty i'm not gonna take a pic under my hood.

if you think that is dirty i'm not gonna take a pic under my hood.


you should see under my hood too. its filthy!

looks like you still got the stock snorkel hooked up. Take that out and add a 4" dryer hose, that'll help a lot too.

So last weekend I tired this. Got some of that metal dryer duct from home depot and some big hose clamps.

Tightening down the end of the dryer duct makes the metal split apart and it starts to unwind itself. No matter how much cutting, folding, crimping I did, I couldn't get the duct to get a good seal around the inlet on the air cleaner.

Next I'm considering those rubber sleeves + hose clamps as the adapter between the inlet and the hose...

I have some other less rigid dryer duct, shiny, but like metallic paper. It didn't seem rigid enough to put near my engine for fear of it sagging and getting caught in the fan or belts.

So what exactly are you using?

I then pulled the line off of the IP inlet and removed the inlet fitting. I gave the adjustment screw in the pump inlet 1/2 a turn.

I put it all back together and reinstalled the intake. Of course after I did
I finally did get it fired up... What a difference! It really runs good now... I took it out for a test drive and it really has quite a bit more power than it did before. It sounds better, too.


When you increase that transfer-pump regulator pressure, it can make a "dead" advance work again. It's a shame that Stanadyne has intentionally made things so difficult to check. The older pumps used a very simple diagnostic tool to check the timing advance. You just pull of the triangle-shaped window on the side of the pump, and intall a clear-plastic window that has degree lines on it. You then run the engine at different RPMs and look at the window. It will show how far it is advancing. It's cheap, and very simple. But, with the DB2 pumps as used now - seems Stanadyne is doing all they can - to stop the owner from working on his/her own vehicle - and they want you to send the pump to a registered Stanadyne shop.

When you increase that transfer-pump regulator pressure, it can make a "dead" advance work again. It's a shame that Stanadyne has intentionally made things so difficult to check. The older pumps used a very simple diagnostic tool to check the timing advance. You just pull of the triangle-shaped window on the side of the pump, and intall a clear-plastic window that has degree lines on it. You then run the engine at different RPMs and look at the window. It will show how far it is advancing. It's cheap, and very simple. But, with the DB2 pumps as used now - seems Stanadyne is doing all they can - to stop the owner from working on his/her own vehicle - and they want you to send the pump to a registered Stanadyne shop.
thats how it is nowadays, no manufacturer wants the owner to do the work, only shops.

So what does the screw on the back of the pump do?????

high sierra lets keep track of the fuel mileage now. back down to us 21 mpg guys.

So what does the screw on the back of the pump do?????

It determines the transfer-pump fuel pressure that powers the fuel-timing-advance. If the pressure is too low, the advance will not work at all. If it's too high, the advance comes in too early.

wow, and I thought my pump was dirty

):h What can I say... It's had a rough life & it's got a lot of miles on it... I've been cleaning everything I work on ever since I bought the truck but it's a losing battle because I drive on a lot of dirt roads and my truck gets very dirty where I've been working.

looks like you still got the stock snorkel hooked up. Take that out and add a 4" dryer hose, that'll help a lot too.

This is something I've wanted to try, but I haven't had time to do it yet. In addition, my old injection pump barely delivers enough fuel to keep up with the stock air intake even now that it is turned up... Right now I'm still only getting a very light haze of smoke at full throttle. It used to smoke pretty good but a lot of the smoke went away when I figured out the EGR valve was leaking and fixed it.

When you increase that transfer-pump regulator pressure, it can make a "dead" advance work again. It's a shame that Stanadyne has intentionally made things so difficult to check. The older pumps used a very simple diagnostic tool to check the timing advance. You just pull of the triangle-shaped window on the side of the pump, and intall a clear-plastic window that has degree lines on it. You then run the engine at different RPMs and look at the window. It will show how far it is advancing. It's cheap, and very simple. But, with the DB2 pumps as used now - seems Stanadyne is doing all they can - to stop the owner from working on his/her own vehicle - and they want you to send the pump to a registered Stanadyne shop.

That's the main reason I decided to try this. I had heard that it might bring the advance back at least a little bit... It does. I wish there were a good way for the home mechanic to check the advance and see exactly what it is doing, but so far the only accurate way seems to be with equipment that I can't afford. Without it you basically have to guess whether it is set right or not. I really wish information on these pumps was easier to find... I know fixing one of them can't actually be that complicated, but information on fixing them is difficult to find. One of these days I'm just going to pull the pump out and take it apart... It wouldn't be the first time I've fixed something that you're supposed to "send back to the factory for repair..."

high sierra lets keep track of the fuel mileage now. back down to us 21 mpg guys.

We'll certainly see. I was wondering if part of the reason my fuel economy was so good was because my worn out pump simply wouldn't deliver more fuel... I know it delivers a little more fuel than it did before because it puts out a little more smoke than before. In addition it has quite a bit more power than it did before. We'll see, though. If I stay off the throttle maybe the fuel economy won't change...

my old injection pump barely delivers enough fuel to keep up with the stock air intake even now that it is turned up... Right now I'm still only getting a very light haze of smoke at full throttle.

A light haze at full load is probably a good thing - in the long run. But, your pump can probably still be turned up more (maybe). Some pumps have limiting shims stuck under the screw - so it bottoms out and won't got any further - unless you take the shims out.



. . I had heard that it might bring the advance back at least a little bit... It does. I wish there were a good way for the home mechanic to check the advance and see exactly what it is doing, but so far the only accurate way seems to be with equipment that I can't afford.


What somebody ought to do - is make a simple clear-plastic timing window. I have all the OEM Stanadyne windows for all the other rotary pumps (Ds, Cs, etc.). But, as far as I know - Stanadyne never made one for DB2, just the others. Seems it would not be hard to do. When you pull the trap door off the side of the pump, the cam-ring is visible with a timing mark on it. When the timing advances, it moves a bit (does not rotate). So, if you can see it - you can observe the timing advance with no special tools. You just need a way to look in - without fuel spilling out all over the place.

In regard to service information - Stanadyne will not sell it to anyone unless they are registered member of the Stanadyne repair-club.
But . . . you can get all the repair info, with great diagrams and photos - in the US Military repair manuals. Seems the US Military refused to buy 6.2s and 6.5s without full access to the specs. I have them all on CDs, come in real handy (but I also have the Stanadyne paper books).

I suppose you could make a clear plastic cover for the opening on the side of the pump pretty easily. I wonder if you could see it with pump installed on the engine? When the pump is on the engine it is kind of down in and it is hard to see the side of the pump. Unless you ran it with the intake off... I wouldn't be too comfortable doing that, though.

I could have turned the pump up quite a bit more. I didn't want to go too far, though... I like black smoke as much as the next guy, but I also like fuel economy and low EGTs.

I suppose you could make a clear plastic cover for the opening on the side of the pump pretty easily. I wonder if you could see it with pump installed on the engine? When the pump is on the engine it is kind of down in and it is hard to see the side of the pump. Unless you ran it with the intake off... I wouldn't be too comfortable doing that, though.
.

Yes, having the pump stuck into the middle of a V8 makes it kind of hard to see. Most pumps on industrial and farm equipent have straight 4s, or 6s and the pump is mounted "out in the open" on the side.
But - there's not much to see - seems all you'd need is a little mirror.

Yes, having the pump stuck into the middle of a V8 makes it kind of hard to see. Most pumps on industrial and farm equipent have straight 4s, or 6s and the pump is mounted "out in the open" on the side.
But - there's not much to see - seems all you'd need is a little mirror.

Well, maybe I'll give it a try sometime. It'd be easy to make a clear plastic cover to go on there...

Well, maybe I'll give it a try sometime. It'd be easy to make a clear plastic cover to go on there...

No need top make the window. The OEM degreed timing window from Stanadyne can be bought for $8 and it fits the early DB2 pumps fine - like used on many Olds 350 diesels. But, the later DB2 got the window port enlarged - to make turning up the fuel easier. All you'd have to do, is use an original timing-window, and just make a little adapter plate with a flat piece of steel. It would be pretty easy.

In regard to turning up the fuel-pressure - you can easily check the pressure with the engine running. At least this way, you would know you're in the ballpark. All you need is an $8 adapter - so you can plug in a regular 150 - 200 PSI gauge into the back of the pump. Your pump is supposed to be set a 60 PSI at 2000 engine RPM. And, as you raise or lower the RPM, the pressure drops or raises accordingly - that's how the advance works.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/DB2_advance_timing_mark.jpg (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/DB2_advance_timing_mark.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/windows.jpg (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/windows.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/Stanadynetimingwindow.jpg (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/Stanadynetimingwindow.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/DB2_with_DBwindow_close.jpg (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/DB2_with_DBwindow_close.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/back_of_pump_testport2.jpg (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/back_of_pump_testport2.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

Fantastic pics and information! The $8 timing window and the pressure adapter are available where? Stanadyne directly or thru a local (if any) dealer/rebuilder? Thanks again for the fantastic pics and info.

Peyton

Well, I'll give it a try sometime... Looks like it'd be easy. Right now the truck is running very strong so I'm not too concerned about it... I'm done messing with it for a while (I hope).

fantastic pics and information! the $8 timing window and the pressure adapter are available where? stanadyne directly or thru a local (if any) dealer/rebuilder? thanks again for the fantastic pics and info. Peyton list price on some of that stuff with certain dealers can be rediculous. You just have to keep your eyes open for stanadyne dealers with inventories they want to reduce. And, some of those parts are getting discontinued. I just spoke to guy the paid $40 for the test-port adaptor. I just bought several of the same for $11 each. Right now there's a dealer in oklahoma with all the stuff in stock - and selling to anyone at half of list-price. I just ordered a bunch of extras yesterday. Here are a few stanadyne part #s for tools/adapters adapter for test-port on db2 pumps - for transferpump - #21900
delivery valve retractor - #13383
db degreed timing window -# 13366
db umbrella seal compressor - #13371 and, here's the companies price-list and inventory. Remember, they are selling all the parts at half the listed price. Their website is at
http://www.thompsondiesel.com/stanadyne.htm and phone number is toll free: 800-364-2535 qty
part number
sb
description
list price 0
10224 drive shaft db
$141.23
210213 drive shaft$139.51
2
13211 orifice plug-db2
$10.15
0
13315 pt spacer
$10.05
2
13336 screw driver 5/32"
$10.83
8
13357 tp rotor wrench a-d-b
$11.42
913363 old style db mt plate$20.00
15
13366
2
sight glass
$13.21
3
13369 d s seal installer tube
$14.24
3
13371

drive shaft seal tool
$9.43
12
13375
1
roto ret. Ring tool db & dc
$16.88
10
13379
1
linkage hook wrench
$3.41
8
13383 dv puller use:26081
$30.02
9
13390 ball chk tool
$8.95
0
14020 plastic clear cover db
$12.60
16
14067
1
eso adj tool
$9.88
4
14490
0
wrench auto advance
$13.14
11
14620
1
use:24342 plastic cover all d size
$17.39
17
14725
1
eso adj wgt db-dm
$19.29
0
15497
0
cam screw bit
$7.45
1
15499
0
cam screw wrench and bit
$7.45
5
15500 bushing cam screw removal
$8.96
2
15380 throttle shaft bush reamer
$8.91
2
15915 dc drive shaft
$140.00
116063 drive shaft$159.75
116094 dial indicator$24.12
2
16182 dial indicator dc roller to roller setter
$340.78
3
16199
0
piston ring inst tool
$9.51
8
16313
1
gov. Weight tool
$43.65
9
16314
1
pilot tube remover
$39.56
6
16315 pilot tube spacer
$14.40
1
16336 screw driver 1/8"
$11.09
116349 snap ring plumber$34.38
1
16481
1
valve lapping tool
$60.54
0
16491 nozzle cleaning kit
$429.84
0
16492 adapter test pump
$35.96
0
16494 nozzle cleaning kit
$390.76
116601 dc drive shaft$244.08
5
16647 ball check tool
$81.14
6
16692 ball check stone
$26.35
5
16693 honing stone
$13.05
3
17180
2
auto advance gauge
$14.67
9
17357
1
cb pump holding fixture
$23.37
4
17359 roller-roller setting
$8.31
6
17575 h p gauge fitting
$10.50
2
17777 rod t shaft bushing installer
$30.22
2
17787
2
nozzle housing tool
$18.71
14
17984 end cap wrench adapter
$9.86
15
18031 tp end cap torque wrench
$50.75
1
18103
0
wire gauge
$1.86
6
18160 meter valve set wire c
$1.80
4
18161 honing stone
$26.78
5
18162 honing stone
$13.05
1
18264 vent wire extractor
$3.44
3
18314 metering valve gauge
$10.03
9
18328
1
drive shaft seal expander cb
$7.90
10
18330 d shaft seal retaining ring tool cb
$15.98
12
18332 guide & cap gauge cb
$39.63
7
18338
2
sleeve seal install tube (all)
$10.25
0
18411
2
throttle shaft bush repl kit
$96.95
3
18683 solenoid screw driver
$5.08
1
18714
0
stone valve stop seat
$11.06
218914 gap gauge use 23093$35.19
5
18955 gauge fitting
$5.33
1
18957 use: 19966 rotor stop off valve
$87.97
8
18958
1
nozzle lock nut adapter
$23.79
15
19918 advance test fixture
$13.20
3
19923 use:20268 shaft seal tool db time
$29.00
15
19927 use:31273 puller kit,dr,sh,ho
$92.87
14
19930 holder fixture bracket
$60.19
5
19965 hold fixture assembly
$91.61
0
19967
1
bracket injector
$7.53
4
19969 roller to roller gauge
$340.78
0
19980 holding plate
$25.00
4
20012
1
tp pressure tap assy
$28.97
7
20029 hold fixture plate
$36.64
13
20045
1
applicator
$22.88
120094 snap ring pliers$39.18
5
20147
1
valve retractor
$37.54
3
20268
1
shaft seal tool
$29.00
0
20334
3
head plug assy pin
$6.47
5
20395
1
timing line indicator
$57.81
3
20400
0
timing line indicator
$57.81
2
20401 timing line indicator
$57.81
5
20545 dm plate
$88.80
6
20546
2
transfer pump endcap wrench+d97
$13.85
7
20548
0
end cap tool
$32.05
10
20549
1
end cap plug
$11.88
4
20550 drive hub dm straight shaft
$29.34
3
20605 pressure adj screw wrench
$11.21
10
20920
1
dr shaft bearing tool use 18332
$39.63
5
20992
1
shut off cam removal tool
$10.15
20
21178
1
cam screw guide
$8.96
5
21733 auto advance indicator db dc
$260.75
6
21900
1
tp-psi tap press test adapter
$21.94
7
21914
1
throttle lever gauge db2 5.7
$58.38
0
22087
1
grommet
$2.41
3
22089 throttle lever gauge
$6.86
6
22727
1
drive shaft seal tool
$8.95
0
22803 p tube spacer sleeve
$10.06
222939 tork bit socket assy$47.07
13
22977
1
face cam torx socket db2
$10.55
1
22998 mounting plate
$50.40
2
23079 link hook adj gauge
$16.98
2
23080 link hook adj gauge
$25.88
123093 link gauge set$35.19
0
23326 press mandrel
$40.00
3
23615 pump mount plate db2
$113.51
8
23715
1
6.2 air timeing fixture
$451.60
2
23716
0
5.7 throttle lever gauge
$40.18
17
23743
1
air timeing fixture assembly
$808.78
4
23745
0
dm db2 indicator can use 21734
$200.19
3
23805
1
brg install tool
$18.76
2
24135 6.9 t.s. Gauge
$23.87
1
24148
1
tru arc instaler
$47.71
3
24150 db stop stone db2
$22.86
424204 6.9 timing hub$347.93
1
24205
1
6.9 7.3 timing tool
$817.45
2
24374 nozzle lock nut adapter
$14.76
4
24665 nozzle cleaning kit
$50.00
0
24832
1
stone guide stop seat
$9.00
1
24992
0
cam screw bit
$7.45
5
26079 tp adj tool kit
$537.31
1
26081
0
dv retraction tool
$30.02
2
26251
2
nozzle gauge
$44.36
126840 bag puller$216.27
14
26994
1
guide stud tool
$23.20
327041 adv. Seal inst tool$25.00
127049 puller db retaining ring$12.50
0
27173 .002 reamer
$297.28
327174 reamer std$100.00
3
27178
1
bit mv sensor
$11.82
0
27210 reamer kit adv base
$800.00
1
27752 m80 vac sw installer tool
$12.54
0
27760 adv plug socket db2
$57.90
0
27761
0
adv plug socket
$70.01
3
27980
1
wgt min-max adj db2
$5.70
6
27985
1
bushing installer tool
$18.14
18
27987 .008 reamer
$309.05
0
28017 comp seal tool
$37.77
1
28311
0
drive shaft brg tool
$175.19
5
28316
0
dr sh seal installer
$176.32
2
28458 .005 reamer
$313.77
3
28561
1
time fixture hub & point kit
$293.58
9
29082
4
use:30847 install tool, adv seal
$53.29
1
29624 adapter plate
$56.75
2
29711 air time adapter kit
$222.86
0
30847 adv seal install tool
$52.52
0
30848 roll pin install tool
$46.68
1
30851 encoder sensor adj tool
$818.41
0
30853 armature cover wrench
$87.52
0
30854 head & rotor install tool
$87.52
1
30856 puller kit
$71.51
0
30857 drive shaft install tool
$204.21
0
30927
1
heat sink
$50.00
0
30929 bracket hub lock
$92.77
0
31203 drive shadft hold fixture
$71.42
1
31204 gap set tool pop valve
$594.66
131215 seal tool$47.39
131338 ds tool kit w/electronic pkg$6,500.00
0
31367 t p pump adj
$539.11
1
32505 tp psf vent mandrell
$57.14
132957 seal tool$141.17
1
33036 driver 15 ipr
$20.80
0
33153 mounting plate
$310.86
133162 puller$57.00
0
33195 fuel limit wrench
$18.24
0
33196 wrench target db4 lla adj
$117.00
1
33991 torque screw lock nut wrench
$20.50
1
34152 idle adj wrench
$12.00
1
34593 lla speed adj tool
$250.00
1 .012 db2 reamer$300.00 all prices are shown at list price unless they are otherwise noted as net to get your cost deduct 50%

looks like you just need to make a hole in the original cover, so you can put the clear one over the top of it and read it. just need an extra cover. sounds like we need a standadyne load-a-tool club. pay some money, get the tool, send it back when you're done and get most of your money back, except for shipping cost, etc.

looks like you just need to make a hole in the original cover, so you can put the clear one over the top of it and read it. just need an extra cover. sounds like we need a standadyne load-a-tool club. pay some money, get the tool, send it back when you're done and get most of your money back, except for shipping cost, etc.

Yes, that's what I figured would be the easiet. On the older DB2 pumps - like used on the Olds 350 diesels, the plastic window fits fine. It's just a problem with the newer DB2s with the more triangle shaped timing door.

When we worked on industrial and ag. diesels - checking fuel timing advance was a routine part of a diesel "tune up." It was very easy to do, and just about any bad working advance would come to life and work properly again. But - not so easy with the DB2s in the 6.2s - which is a shame. It's seems rediculous to have to pull a pump off, and pay $300-$400 for somthing that might be a easy fix.