How much more stability does the extra tires provide on a dually?


GM website says axle capacity is the same on both but payload on SRW is 3661 lbs and DRW is 5066 lbs because of the springs.


For hauling a large truck camper, would a SRW with air bags have near the stability of the DRW?


I'm trying to (re)decide if the DRW is going to be overkill for me to use as a daily driver and only put the camper on for half a dozen (150+/- mile) trips a year.

Since u aren't using it to haul the camper a lot, I'd stay w/ the SRW because of the extended jacks the DRW need.


McRat hauls a good size camper and tows an enclosed trailer w/ his SRW.


I've got a 9.5' camper and it's no problem w/ my 2500.


The 2500 HD handle 5000#+ in the bed no problem.

You might also add that the SRW is primarily limited by tire capacity and higher capacity tires that would add a 500 to 1000lb margin of saftey reserve is easily done.

I have a bud with an F350 Dually, which we just put new tires on. Besides being an absolute bear to change tires on (at least for the Ford, could not get the rears apart), he had badly scalloped tires because he hadn't been rotating them properly. Rotating tires on a dually requires dismount/remount =$. He pulls a 14K 5th, which he pulls about 6-8 times a year. He says if he had to do it again he'd have gotten a SRW, he hates driving it daily in city traffic, parking, can't take it through auto wash (he lives off a dirt road, truck therefore is never clean), and he just had to buy 6 tires off me instead of 4. I'm sure the DRW has more side to side stability, but my 2500 with Airbags carry's my 5th with no squat, so I guess it's a matter of preferance. If your only gonna use it 6 times a season, I'd say get the 3500 SRW, that is if your not gonna exceed the capacity of the 265's. (3415lbs each tire).


My .02


(on a side note, when we got the rears split, one of his inside tires was flat, he had no idea, nor any idea how long it was that way)

Duallys do not need dismount/remount unless you are running 4 aluminum and 2 steels.


Wal mart will do the rotation for less than $15.

I like my dually when I'm towing the rearend doesn't sway even in highwinds. I don't carry a camper but I tow auto transports.

Once you go duals, you'll never go back.


True, loading a camper is a bit more of a challenge and you can't use the type of jacks that just mount on the camper. But if you've ever hauled with a dually, the difference in stabilty is amazing.


I had 2500's until I cracked a rear wheel with a camper and a two horse trailer on behind it while Elk hunting. Not a big camper either, but that was the end of the SRW and hauling stuff for me...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


As Diesel Dually mentioned, rotating is not a problem unless you go to the aluminum wheels. I ran chrome plated wheels on my first dually, then switched to simulators on the next truck, and those since, for that exact reason.

I have a SRW K3500 and I would not have a dually myself. What little you gain is not worth the extra 18 inches or so of rear axle width to haul around to me anyway.

Dually tows better and stops better when fully loaded. If you going to drive around empty get single if you going to be loaded most time get duels.

Dually tows better and stops better when fully loaded. If you going to drive around empty get single if you going to be loaded most time get duels.

I do carry as much as 4000lbs at times during winter. (usually between 2000 and 3000lbs) I know I am over my 9200gvw at 4000lb cargo load and plow but it handles and stops fine and has no real quirks at that weight and will fit places that dualies will not. Never felt lacking.

I do carry as much as 4000lbs at times during winter. (usually between 2000 and 3000lbs) I know I am over my 9200gvw at 4000lb cargo load and plow but it handles and stops fine and has no real quirks at that weight and will fit places that dualies will not. Never felt lacking.


You are just unbelievable. I'm sure that you have not had to pick up the pieces of some a**hole like you hitting a car full of unsuspecting people.


Virtually all of the accidents, where I have to go cut people out of the remains of their vehicles, were caused by someone doing something stupid. Driving around in an overloaded truck that's not capable of stopping when it should, then inferring that others should do the same is irresponsible at best.

GVW of a SRW 1 ton (according to GMC.com) is 9900lbs. So if the truck weighs 7000lbs then I can only legally haul 2900lbs?


8.5' Camper 2400lbs


Passengers 350lbs


Water 250lbs


Camping Supplies 300lbs


_________________________


3300lbs


+ Truck 7000lbs


_________________________


10300lbs = illegal??





Also it says that the payload of the crew cab is 3806lbs. Why is it more than the ext cab at 3661lbs?

Limited by the tire rating on the SRW usually.

You carry precisely 31 gallons of water?


Yes you are overweight. Dont torpedo and cars filled with families and kill them all...you may be weighed.


'02 Dually CCLB is specified as follows:



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 width=440>
<T>
<TR id=WhiteBackground>
<TD width=250>Curb Weight</TD>
<TD align=middle width=150>6,391 lbs.</TD></TR>
<TR id=LightGrayBackground>
<TD width=250>Gross Vehicle Weight</TD>
<TD align=middle width=150>


11400 lbs.
</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


I'd get another dually! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

No I don't carry precisely 31 gallons of water. I don't even have the camper or truck, I'm just going thru a senario, trying to figure out which truck I should get. Actually most of the bigger campers (which I would like to get) are +-1000lbs heavier. Seems like I see an aweful lot of big campers on 2500s.





Dmax Tim,


I tried to PM you but it is not working. Can you send me an email so I can reply to it. (address is in my profile)


BrianEdited by: BrianB

I carried a large (11') camper on my 91 Ford dually, usually with a horse trailer attached. This camper was large by early 90's standards, but I've seen even heavier campers with slideouts recently. I can't imaging using an SRW for this purpose. Biggest problem, I believe, would be a big crosswind. I've seen many SRW's in this situation and they can develop a pretty substantial list.


I've never been in a situation where the extra width has been much of an issue. Certainly, compact car parking spaces are a bit too snug, but turning radius in a pickup is much more of a concern and is really a function of the length.


Tire rotation. Both my old Ford and my current DMax have been excellent on front tires. I never even bothered to rotate the tires on the Ford. Keep the tires inflated correctly and keep the front end in alignment and you shouldn't have any problem at all.


As far as the cost of the two additional tires: Figure on $75/year or less at about 15,000 miles/year. This is a small price to pay for peace of mind.


Rick T

I have folks tell me that driving a dooley like mine is dangerous because of its width. I ask, "Do you drive through traffic knocking your mirrors off all the time?" They say,"NO!" My reply is,"You would have to because the wheel wells don't stick out as much as the mirrors." My camper says on the specs lable that it is 3160 with so much of this and so much of that in it. I took it down to weigh it and found out it is actually 4100 EMPTY! It has a slide and it is a 10' model. Plus it is 8'4" wide at the max outside (wider than the truck anyway). I'll stick with the dooleys for safty and the cool (to most) factor.

I have folks tell me that driving a dooley like mine is dangerous because of its width. I ask, "Do you drive through traffic knocking your mirrors off all the time?" They say,"NO!" My reply is,"You would have to because the wheel wells don't stick out as much as the mirrors." My camper says on the specs lable that it is 3160 with so much of this and so much of that in it. I took it down to weigh it and found out it is actually 4100 EMPTY! It has a slide and it is a 10' model. Plus it is 8'4" wide at the max outside (wider than the truck anyway). I'll stick with the dooleys for safty and the cool (to most) factor.

"Mirrors" that stick out by cab are nothing like having a wide axle being dragged behind you at road level. (besides mirror will fold on impact, duals will not)They (duals) can be a hazard in some situations. They would be much better if they were tucked under like a stake bed truck but they are not going to cut into bed to do it. Besides, they are single tires easily availble that could easily handle 3500 to 4000lbs a piece and negate the need for duals on a P/U weight wise. I have a friend that has 7000lbs or weight on the front axle of his motor home and he does not need duals to carry that weight. His current tires are rated at about 4400lbs in single connfiguration. Edited by: snoman

I don't follow the logic. If the truck is wide enough, the truck is wide enough. What's the hazard in having dual rear wheels. Should truck manufacturers now discontinue these hazardous beasts because they are wider than SRW trucks? If that was the case, over the road rigs wouldn't be eighteen wheelers, they'd be 10 wheelers or whatever. They could make single wheels that hold the loads those rigs carry as well. But for some reason, they still have duals all around.


Regardless of load carrying capacity, the dual rear wheeled vehicle will be inherently more stable when towing. Period. This comes from a guy with a SRW vehicle. No question in my mind that I would have been better towing with a DRW, but I tow infrequently, and like the look for everyday of a SRW, so that's what I purchased.


If you are driving close enough to fold your mirrors "on impact," you're already too close! Seems to me that impact and my truck do not fit well in a sentence together, except in this case.


Dennis

Dual wheels are more dangerous? What a preposterous statement. Atleast I dont try to apply mascara, talk on my cellphone, drink coffee and drive a SUV at the same time.


I have not hit anything (except backing into a snowbank purposely...bad idea) with my dually and I am more careful since I already know it is got a big ole bubble-butt.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Duals ----&gt; Gooood....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Driven them both and I prefer not to have a big butt if I don't have to. Always told the new drivers "If the mirrors fit, you will too" and have had zero problems. Parking is a bit easier too. You can get a cab-chassis and then have a regular pickup bed grafted onto it. The wheel wells will have to be tubbed, but it works.

Thou not equiped from the factory this way, it is possible to get a tire load rating up to 12,000 with duals that still fit in the wheel wells.

I do carry as much as 4000lbs at times during winter. (usually between 2000 and 3000lbs) I know I am over my 9200gvw at 4000lb cargo load and plow but it handles and stops fine and has no real quirks at that weight and will fit places that dualies will not. Never felt lacking.


You are just unbelievable. I'm sure that you have not had to pick up the pieces of some a**hole like you hitting a car full of unsuspecting people.


Virtually all of the accidents, where I have to go cut people out of the remains of their vehicles, were caused by someone doing something stupid. Driving around in an overloaded truck that's not capable of stopping when it should, then inferring that others should do the same is irresponsible at best.





Zeeb


I don't envy your career !! Fireman, paramedic, ??? very admirable


Even most dually's today with a big camper are over gross


Truck #7300 ;Camper #5000 /wet &amp; loaded ; People and stuff #500 = #12,800 already #1,400 over. Don't get me wrong I don't advocate it being done. But it does happen


I was under the impression that the brakes on the dually are the same. But its the tire capacity that gives the extra GVW.


Not trying to battle, you sound very passionate in your reply. Just encouraging dialog. That is why we are here, to teach and learn.

You are just unbelievable. I'm sure that you have not had to pick up the pieces of some a**hole like you hitting a car full of unsuspecting people...
While I agree that a truck should not be overloaded the reality is that many people do it. Zeeb I understand where you are coming from however those are not the words of a professional emt, ff, medic, engineer, captain or BC! You are entitled to your own opinion but I would hope that if I was ever involved in an accident even under those circumstances you would not approach the scene with that attitude.

I do carry as much as 4000lbs at times during winter. (usually between 2000 and 3000lbs) I know I am over my 9200gvw at 4000lb cargo load and plow but it handles and stops fine and has no real quirks at that weight and will fit places that dualies will not. Never felt lacking.


You are just unbelievable. I'm sure that you have not had to pick up the pieces of some a**hole like you hitting a car full of unsuspecting people.


Virtually all of the accidents, where I have to go cut people out of the remains of their vehicles, were caused by someone doing something stupid. Driving around in an overloaded truck that's not capable of stopping when it should, then inferring that others should do the same is irresponsible at best.

Let me see. I am accident free with my plow trucks in 19+ years now and never even been in the ditch. I NEVER use overloaded 1/2 ton trucks nor SUV's never designed for such work. My current K3500 has about 12400lb of tire capacity at 80 PSI (yes I actually check my TP regularly) with optional HD T-bars on front axle rated at 5000lbs. I can tell when a truck is overloaded or unsafe and will not drive one that is. Its rated cargo capacity is 4200lbs and it handles 4000lbs with less fuss than a 1/2 ton handles 1500lbs. This truck handles much better loaded than the 3/4 ton I replaced that also ran with a GVW of 7000 to 8000lbs tops. I also use studded tires at all for corners too.

Do not be some nieve to assume that I am unsafe as I am safer than a lot that post here. I see the wannabes in the ditch every winter that are basically clueless as to what really is safe. You should confine your coments to things that you really understand before bad mouthing anyone. I will not judge your EMT abilties because it is not my field and plow truck configuration and setup is not yours either. Lets keep this civil!Edited by: snoman

Max camper, u are in real big trouble since u have H2 wheels and there 2500# load capacity http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Imagine the capacity of putting those 4400# rated tires on the dooley though (your axle and springs are still your problem). Not that I would go there though. When I aproach the 20k mark,(or 5k-6k+ in the bed) I like training wheels. No sweat for me.

You guy's are all missing the obvious. YOU CAN"T HAVE TOO MUCH TRUCK. DRW's can haul and carry more weight than a SRW. I don't care how many sales brochures you qoute, or what kind of fuzzy math is used it's a fact backed up by those of us that have driven both for years. If capacity is a question, and it is because it was asked. Do the safe thing and default to the truck with the higher capacity.

I totally agree with a64pilot.


I had a 2500hd duramax and a 3500 duramax and there was a huge difference in pulling. HUGE.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/365_nxtgenwax3sidepic.jpg

But that isn't the question. You CAN have not enough truck. Especially for loads like campers. And the question is if the SRW is OK for the proposed load. To answer that, you need to know the weight of the camper and how it distributes that weight on the axles.

Dually by far has better load capacity and is much more stable towing, period. If you can get the mirrors through, the wheels will follow. (Heck, don't campers stick out farther than the wheels? My god, some of the newer ones look like motorhomes sitting on the back of the truck, its a joke).

Well, short of all the debates about stability, I just flat like the look of Dually's...Period! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif. Once you go duals you never go back. I like the fact people steer clear of you and where I live this is an important feature. It is a true road clearing vehicle. A CC LB ordered truck really only looks good in Dually configuration....IMHO.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/68C_2001_Dually.jpg

But that isn't the question. You CAN have not enough truck. Especially for loads like campers. And the question is if the SRW is OK for the proposed load. To answer that, you need to know the weight of the camper and how it distributes that weight on the axles.


Agreed. My point is that if your worried that the truck can handle the load, default to the conservative. Get enough truck that your sure it can handle the load. Your nerves and the rest of us that share the road with you will be thankful.

One more comment if I may, If you are considering a camper, why get the huge giants that look like they are about to make any truck fall over? Purchase a very nice pop up camper. I was skeptical of those until I recently went camping in one...Man they are sure nice. Nice to the point where I am going to purchase one early next year. I had avoided the other ones due to awkward nature and weight. These pop up campers are very practical, 1/2 the price and weigh 2000lbs less. Crankdown the top to reduce center of gravity issues. Also allows you to get around under low trees and increases stability when driving. My friend had this in a '00 SRW 2wd 2500 Chevy. It drove like a Cadillac Not trying to ruffle anybody's feathers but I was under the impression that camping was to get away from all the hustle bustle and ammenties of the city life. Instead it appears everybody goes out and buys a set up to take it all with them.....


My.02 worth

Do not be some nieve to assume that I am unsafe as I am safer than a lot that post here. I see the wannabes in the ditch every winter that are basically clueless as to what really is safe. You should confine your coments to things that you really understand before bad mouthing anyone. I will not judge your EMT abilties because it is not my field and plow truck configuration and setup is not yours either. Lets keep this civil!


Oh, there is something you don't know about?


I'm going to preserve this post for those who wouldn't believe me if I told them you'd said it.


In twenty-nine years of doing what I do, no one has ever said they were expecting a fire, a wreck, a HazMat spill, a flood, or any of the unfortunate circumstances we respond to.


Some are really accidents, some are due to honest mistakes, some are due to people trying to save money by doing it themselves, and there are a very few like you who believe the laws of physics or the odds of chance, don't apply to you. Who believe their skill level will always triumph over the unexpected.


If it was just those individuals who suffered the consequences of their actions, it would be different. But there are invariably innocent people affected by the decisions made by those few.


As for y2kboti's comments I agree in most circumstances, but I've resisted taking on snoman in the past in order to keep things civil. This time he crossed the line. There's even a thread on him, his posts and attitudes in "Off Topic", so I know I'm not alone in my perception.


One of the Mods can dump this if they want, or dress me down or whatever, but I'm not apologizing to snoman and I'm not responding to anymore about this.


I am apologizing to the rest of you for my hijacking of this thread, my attitudes, and my language on this thread.

Zeeb,


Forget about it. You're right. He'll never get it. Hopefully when his time comes, he won't take out someone like my wife and kids with him.


Dennis

I didn't realize that a camper had to have extensions for the jacks. I guess one couldn't just go out and buy any used camper, I see way more campers on SRW trucks than DRWs.


Lots of good information everyone-thanks.


Brian

It is always better to have to much truck rather than not enough or just barely enough. I'm a dooley fan. I love the 2500s and the 3500 SRWs as well (there all good looking and good running trucks). However I need the capacitys of the dooley. You just need to figure out what fits your own bill the best and run with it.

Zeeb,


As a Brother Firefighter (Engineer/Paramedic), I agree with your indignation. However, dressing down civillians has never worked. Ever.


If it were not for the stupid or the ignorant (and I am not pointing any fingers here), we would be bored or unemployed.


Stay Safe!

the problem i run into is i like to fish on the beach and national park service will not allow duallies on the beach. if you want to have your slide in camper on the beach it must be on a SRW truck.


i would prefer to have a DRW truck for hauling the camper around but NPS wont allow it. I drive safely and carefully although that is not always enough.


garyEdited by: smithinc

No I don't carry precisely 31 gallons of water. I don't even have the camper or truck, I'm just going thru a senario, trying to figure out which truck I should get. Actually most of the bigger campers (which I would like to get) are +-1000lbs heavier. Seems like I see an aweful lot of big campers on 2500s.





Dmax Tim,


I tried to PM you but it is not working. Can you send me an email so I can reply to it. (address is in my profile)


Brian





Ill give you my thoughts on it Brian, If I was planning on hauling around a slide in camper I would defiantly go with the Duels, you never know, you may decide to trade in the camper you have now and buy something like a Big Foot or a loaded out Lance, and to haul those you need a big truck with duel wheels, not only that, if you ever decide to take a trip across the flat lands where the wind blows, the duelly will be more stable, and you wont rock by the wind as much.

Dueling over duallies again are we? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif You know Brian D had no idea at the size of the can of worms he was opening by starting this post! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


There are numerous points on this post that we all can agree with, e.g. driveability and maneuverability of srw versus drw; safety; load capacity, etc. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Hopefully we all agree that safety, not only ours but our families and those sharing the roads with us, should be at the top of our list. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gifDo any of us really spend that much time in drive throughs or in parking lots to offset any safety concerns? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif We can repair a dented or scratched dually fender, we can't replace ourselves or anyone else's loved ones that might be injured or worse in an accident caused by an overloaded/unsafe vehicle. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Stern Smile.gif


Zeeb, I am 110% appreciative and supportive of your passion in this area. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif If I'm ever in need of EMT assistance I can only hope the EMT or first responder on-site is as dedicated and technically competent in their trade as you appear to be. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


<IMG onMouseOver="this.style.cursor='hand'" onMouseOut="this.style.cursor=''" alt='Click on image to open in new window' onClick="window.open('smileys/HiHi.gif', 'Image', 'toolbar=

Dang that was a long post. Sorry! JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Dang that was a long post. Sorry! JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Mebbe so, but well said! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Agreed...Long post but quite clear.


My Final input to the thread: I have always said that safety is first. I do not know how these HUGE slide in campers can be sold legally to any consumer willing to pay. When I went looking at a Lance and Caribou they had a DRY weight then a ESTIMATE of wet. But they have to be realistic, no one will ever have a DRY camper. They should be assessed at operating parameters including suitable gear for 4 people. It is really quite disturbing that C/O dealers tell you without a blink of an eye that 'YOUR TRUCK CAN HANDLE THE WEIGHT but they never take in account the safety. Their thought is if the truck does not tip over or blow the tires out when they install it, it is good to gohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif . I genuinely have a problem with this. Special considerations should come into play with these C/O makers where they build them specific for the GVW and you cannot buy one if it exceeds the truck it is to be used on....I have been out in many C/O's and they are all over the place while driving. Wind gusts, weird road angles, poor stopping and the worst are the other drivers that have no idea that it is going to take you 1000 feet to stop your set up. I refuse at this point to get in a truck that has one of those large model deals. In a earlier post I made mention of the light weight, roll up and down type slide in truck camper. They weigh a lot less and by rolling down the top you reduce a tremendous amount of surface area and potential center of gravity issues.I recently went on a trip and it was so comfortable and worry free. In a Dually you would actually have a safety buffer.


All of this really boils down to common sense using the numbers supplied by GM and the C/O maker, application and your own honest assessment of your driving capabilities.

Can anyone tell me why the payload of the crew cab is 3806lbs and an ext cab is less, at 3661lbs? I thought the ext cab weighed less so therefore the payload would be more.


Also, how much does the SRW ext cab 4x4 weigh with a D/A?


Brian