I had 96,000 miles of bliss, no problems, zero. Then while on my way home ina a snow storm, my 4wd starts popping back into 2wd. I took it to the stealer and there's a hole in my transfer case. $2100 later, I'm back in business. I drove it 2 days and the front differential was leaking oil. $100 later, I had a new $8 pinion seal installed. I parked the truck for 2 weeks and then ran it 4 days to and from work.

On my way back to the stealer, to trade for a Suburban (don't worry, I bought a 2007 Duramax 3 months ago), I smelled oil. I stopped only to find my front diff, pouring oil like a Crisco bottle. $1300 later, I'm back on the road. This time, I'm not driving it except to trade it off. The stealer told me the oil port in the front diff. blinded off with gunk and starved the pinion bearing of oil, causing it to weld onto the shaft and eating the pinion seal. The oil loss caused the front diff. to heat up and the gears were gone.

My question is this. What could make the front differential go bad? I've never had one do that before and I think it's more BS caused by the Transfer Case.

GM should be sued for this transfer case crap!!!!!!! Oh and by the way, the 07 I bought has the same transfer case......In 2 years, I'm trading for a Dodge!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS this truck is a 2002 crew cab D-max with the works from Banks...intake, exhaust, tuner, TCM, turbo actuator, gauges, six gun, etc.

The transfer case did not cause you front differential go bad, you dealer did when they replaced the seal.

How did they make it go bad by replacing a seal? Did the T-case make the seal go bad?

When they replaced the seal, they topped off the front diff. Did this have an effect?

When they replaced the front pinion seal they overtightened the front pinion
nut when they put it back together, there was not enough clearance & it overheated the front ring & pinion gears. "probably" what happened.(if the ring to pinion tollerences are to tight then there is no room for the diff fluid between the gears.

I'm getting close to 57,000 on mine. Tax lady called me today and said my return is at her office. Wonder what I'll be buying with some of that money?:rolleyes:

I'm trying to be pro-active about this and get it befor it gets me. Guys, even if you don't have a hole its workin' on it... in more than 1 spot.

Good luck fellas. I'll report my findings when I break mine apart @ my mileage. Probably be around 58,000 when I do it.

I agree with mad .

ya, the dealer did it, overtighten the pinion nut after replacing the seal. Seen it before..

JJ

ya, the dealer did it, overtighten the pinion nut after replacing the seal. Seen it before..

JJ
Exactly what I was thinking

When they replaced the front pinion seal they overtightened the front pinion
nut when they put it back together, there was not enough clearance & it overheated the front ring & pinion gears. "probably" what happened.(if the ring to pinion tollerences are to tight then there is no room for the diff fluid between the gears.
if the pinion nut was too tight it would create extra clearance in the ring and pinion not make them tighter it would really be sloppier. it would have ruined the bearings.. 96K miles things do break stop looking to blame people. unless you are sure.

Exactly what I was thinking


with all due respect being a fellow gorilla and all I am suprised you came to this conclusion also.

with all due respect being a fellow gorilla and all I am suprised you came to this conclusion also.

Only basing it on the fact that it was just replaced. We dont really know the failure at all, but at 98k, its anybody's guess. The only one that will really know is whoever tore it apart I guess

but wouldnt you agree that too tight would pull the pinion away from the ring gear due to crush sleeve absorbing the extra torque

after re-reading the thread, yup, I'd agree with that. But I would think the bearings would go out long before any gear damage would go out if it was overtightened, no?

could even be that the seal was not installed right or they gouged the area arount the seal so bad it leaked. so they could still be to blame but for diffrent reasons. I would have another shop look at it to draw a conclusion.

but wouldnt you agree that too tight would pull the pinion away from the ring gear due to crush sleeve absorbing the extra torque

after re-reading the thread, yup, I'd agree with that. But I would think the bearings would go out long before any gear damage would go out if it was overtightened, no?

I would agree and disagree. Overtightening of the pinion nut should not affect how the pinion gear meshes with the ring gear. At the head of the pinion is the shims and bearing (sometimes even an oil slinger), in the housing is the mating race and those are the only things that affect pinion depth (distance from ring gear centerline). Between that and the pinion nut is your crush sleeve (or in some instances solid spacer) and second bearing and race combo.

NOTE* THIS IS ASSUMING FROM THE POINT OF ZERO PRELOAD WHERE THE BEARINGS FIRST SEAT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE RACES (any looser and the pinion should visibly wobble by hand):
Now in many cases when you check pinion depth you do it without a crush sleeve (you just tighten the nut to make the pinion have some rolling resistance as you turn). Once you have your settings and pattern where you want it, you install the crush sleeve. Most crush sleeves will not give you zero preload until they have been crushed a slight amount (this allows for variations in housings). Up until this point, the pinion can be moved forward and aft as there room between the bearings and races (this room may be what the first poster is talking about but is generally ignored)

Now once the sleeve is crushed to zero preload:

As you tighten the nut, the sleeve crushes allowing the bearings to move closer to their respective races (pinion bearing preload), although both bearings move closer to their races they are moving half the total distance of the "crush". The amount each bearing moves from Zero preload to proper preload is so minute it's barely measureable at the pinion snout.

The only way that is possible to move a significant amount (ie. enough to ruin ring and pinion mesh) is if so much force was used that the bearing at the head of the pinion was crushed or the bearing was not pressed on fully enough to seat the shims in the first place.

That being said, l agree with Erik that overtightening of the pinion nut would cause pinion bearing failure and should have been evident by the bearings and races. If the bearings heated enough to ruin the seal and the fluid ran out, then I could see damage being done to the ring and pinion mating surfaces, but the wear on the pinion bearings and races should be worse...

:o: Sorry I meant Eric instead of Erik

All that is a bunch of crap. If it was just replaced and then it started puking oil, then they screwed it up. 98k isn't high mileage anmore, and especially not for a diesel. I filled up beside a 1988 ford diesel just last night. These trucks aren't made like they used to be. Yeah, common rail injection got the horsepower up, and they're fun to play with, but remember when a trucks body was the first thing to go and that was at 200k?

We're all getting the shaft from GM. And to make matters worse, I now have an '07 LBZ that I'll have to trade in 2 years! Good luck, wait until you join the pump rub club!!!!!!

Oh yeah, did I mention that pre 2004 trucks have injectors that like to puke fuel oil into your combustion chamber, filling your crankcase, and shoot out your tailpipe? Welcome to the "we got screwed and never even got kissed club"!

If you have owned one of these in the past, then why did you buy the 2007?

Do you just want something to complain about?

I feel I bought a great truck, and I do not feel I got screwed, I love my truck!

maybe he means he got screwed by the dealer or should I call us the stealer too. and not GM the manufacturer.

My membership into the pump rub club only cost me about 500 bucks, only because the case half was unusable. But that is cheaper than a truck payment!

G.M. has been somewhat proactive on the pre-04 trucks. I have a 200,000 mile warranty on my truck.

As for the pump rub club, I have 115,000 miles on my truck. Sled pulls, Drag races, etc. No leaks, no problems. Maybe I'm the lucky one. However, If you are not satisfied with your truck, lose it. There are plenty of good trucks around. If you like ford buy a ford, same goes for any other brand. Maybe even lean on the sales and service dept a little. Obviously you purchased two vehicles from them, and possibly a third. That has to stand for something.

That sucks that you have had that much trouble in so little time. Remember this, anything built by a Human, with material made by a Human will eventually fail.

P.M. problemchild and ask him about his opinion on truck failure:D

Good luck!:)

Tommjr,

Don't get those 2 together, we will never have any peace!

G.M. has been somewhat proactive on the pre-04 trucks. I have a 200,000 mile warranty on my truck.

As for the pump rub club, I have 115,000 miles on my truck. Sled pulls, Drag races, etc. No leaks, no problems. Maybe I'm the lucky one. However, If you are not satisfied with your truck, lose it. There are plenty of good trucks around. If you like ford buy a ford, same goes for any other brand. Maybe even lean on the sales and service dept a little. Obviously you purchased two vehicles from them, and possibly a third. That has to stand for something.

That sucks that you have had that much trouble in so little time. Remember this, anything built by a Human, with material made by a Human will eventually fail.

P.M. problemchild and ask him about his opinion on truck failure:D

Good luck!:)


couldnt have said it better myself.

as a matter of fact just got done rebuilding a front diff in an 04 yukon denali with 39k on it. little tab that holds the side bearing adjusters broke and it backed off and chewed up the bearings. oh and by the way we goodwilled it. not even a "good" customer. so it happens to everyone.

as a matter of fact just got done rebuilding a front diff in an 04 yukon denali with 39k on it. little tab that holds the side bearing adjusters broke and it backed off and chewed up the bearings. oh and by the way we goodwilled it. not even a "good" customer. so it happens to everyone.


Mike, where in MA are you from?

On this pump rub issue, does how much 4-wheel time you have on it make a difference? I bought mine at 71K, know it has 81K. If I only use 4-wheel to get out of slippery areas, will I still stand the same chance seeing this problem? If I don't have a hole, is there any way to tell if it is about to happpen?

Mike, where in MA are you from?


Brimfield.

On this pump rub issue, does how much 4-wheel time you have on it make a difference? I bought mine at 71K, know it has 81K. If I only use 4-wheel to get out of slippery areas, will I still stand the same chance seeing this problem? If I don't have a hole, is there any way to tell if it is about to happpen?

4wheel time doesn't matter. The pump is on the main shaft that goes through the transfer case and that is turning anytime you are moving. The only way you can see if the pump is rubbing the case is to take the transfer case out and split it and take a look. It's just about gauranteed that it's in some stage of rubbing through the case.

<----Pump rub club member. I gotta chime in here. We all know this is a common problem.....its the $400 bucks for the $50 worth of cast moly that gets under my skin.....all becasue of a $2 clip failure. P.S I just replaced the torque converter seal in the ali yesterday. Im starting to feel like in under it more than driving it.....gettin that "great GM feeling"

Farmerguy,

How many miles you got on the rig?

I bought the 2007 before my 2002 truck pooped out. Before the multiple system failure, I was in bliss! I do have to say, the 2007 truck is quieter, smoother (thanks to the new turbo), and easier to start in cold weather. They must have also changed the spring rates because it rides much smoother too!!!! Also the engine has much more power than the other did when stock.

What tears me up is the $2 clip that started all of this. Since this is an abundant problem, WHY DOESN'T GM CHANGE IT'S DESIGN? That's what torques me up. A known source of failure, causing thousands of dollars to consumers, and they just keep making them! Doesn't that make anyone else mad?

I am not being a wise *** but if any of them made a perfect vehicle how would they sell all those new ones. and what would they do with the warehouses full of parts. and any piece of machinery with moving parts will wear out eventually.

You are being a wise *** and I had six fords before I bought the D-max, and I put $150k on all of them without ever spending more than $200 for a sensor or something minor. I just think that if these transfer cases suck this bad, and there are this many problems, why hasn't there been a design change.

Here's a quiz. If I sell you a truck, with 20 Hp less than it's competitors, that will run 150k miles with only minor maintenance, will you buy that truck over one that will cost you $3500 when it has 100k miles on it? The answer is yes, consumers will buy the first truck, not the second one. The pump rub failure is happening to +90% of the trucks that have 100k on them. It is the weak link and it should be redesigned. You may not agree now, but wait until you have a puddle of oil my friend....

Then why do you continue to buy the GM product?

And I am not being a wise ***, but I don't care if you call me one, I am just stating the obvious.

If you are unhappy, change it, ie.. go buy a Ford or Dodge and leave us alone.

Did I forget mention I still love my truck with 174,000 miles on it, and still going strong!

Sounds more like a troll, sell it.

It's already gone! Replaced by a Mercedes GL450 gas....335 Hp....7 speed automatic......

Still love GM, I love the go fast duramax, but there's a weak link in the truck that needs to be repaired BEFORE it causes the whole transfer case to melt down!!!!!

I'm the 4th guy in my town (of 6 guys who own them) who has had the pump rub problem....that's 66%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I know I live in Mayberry)

You are being a wise *** and I had six fords before I bought the D-max, and I put $150k on all of them without ever spending more than $200 for a sensor or something minor. I just think that if these transfer cases suck this bad, and there are this many problems, why hasn't there been a design change.

Here's a quiz. If I sell you a truck, with 20 Hp less than it's competitors, that will run 150k miles with only minor maintenance, will you buy that truck over one that will cost you $3500 when it has 100k miles on it? The answer is yes, consumers will buy the first truck, not the second one. The pump rub failure is happening to +90% of the trucks that have 100k on them. It is the weak link and it should be redesigned. You may not agree now, but wait until you have a puddle of oil my friend....
Here's an answer for ya... Ill spend 5000 dollars every 100,000 miles not to buy a ferd or dodge.

I just redid my t-case since i lost all my oil from the pump rub. I bought the truck with 85,000 on it and i think the hole was there when i bought it. I never new it had no oil till i ran 75 down the freeway in 4HI and it sounded like the u-joints were shot. Well i jsut put a new case half on with a new output shaft bearing and needle bearing and fixed it. I need to get that upgraded pump bracket that eric sells and put it in but i cant get ahold of him. It was so simple to fix that i really have no reason to complain, yeah it cost a little bit to fix parts wise but hell every truck is gunna have its problems. You just gotta find the weak link and try to improve it. I love my truck and puttin a little money into some design flaws that have not been addressed to make it almost bullet proof is worth it to me. Once you get it fixed right why turn around and sell it? This is just my personal opinion so im not trying to offend anyone. just my two cents and nothing else. I just absolutley love my truck!!

Chevy1925,
I like you purchased used, so we saved a bundle, and I don't have a payment, so I just fix the weak links like you said. BUT some folks think that since they bought it new, it should last forever, and never breakdown, since they took the big depreciation hit, I guess...

136000 and counting.........PS i was just venting......do like my pickup

Chevy1925,
I like you purchased used, so we saved a bundle, and I don't have a payment, so I just fix the weak links like you said. BUT some folks think that since they bought it new, it should last forever, and never breakdown, since they took the big depreciation hit, I guess...

I guess man. its just one thing, you have to plan for problems no matter what you buy. New or used. I mean yeah i put a 8" lift on my truck with 37s but i am not sayin that nothing will ever go wrong with it. Ive put the cognito idler,pitman arm kit on, added the Fabtech bigger tie rods, fixed the injectors, fixed a bad LF outer axle bearing and seal, replaced a few window guides, fixed the connection form the tranny to the "to cooler" line (actually broke it off thinkin it needed to be tightened but found out 500 bucks later and tranny fluid all over the ground that you just need to replace the o-ring that seals it), fixed the worm shaft seal right where the steering colum shaft comes into the steering box and fixed the seal where the hepafilter is for the air conditioning since it was not blowing very hard. After all this and doin all the work myself it only cost me about three to four "payments" on the truck had i bought it new. Dont know of anything else that would need replacing that was or was goin to be bad from the factory and saved a bunch buyin it used

136000 and counting.........PS i was just venting......do like my pickup

oh yeah. Everyone has been there and i know what you mean. Now im only 20 years old but having the knowlege i do of diesels and mechanics i can do teh stuff myself so it helps alot and trust me i definitley dont know it all and love this forum for all the help and how nice and willing to help everyone is. Not just say your dumb and your on your own as i know alot of other places are.

some folks think that since they bought it new, it should last forever, and never breakdown, since they took the big depreciation hit, I guess...

No but if there is an overwhelming problem, GM should fix it with a recall. If there is an aftermarket part or kit that solves this issue such as the one that you bought I think that GM should fix the problem. It is not an issue like performance or increased HP but a system failure that need to be addressed by the manufacture. I agree normal wear and tear is one thing and I love my truck but to have 90+% failure is unacceptable.

PS Tolliwacher,
Dont you wish that GM covered your repairs. I know that once I need to do the same I hope by then that all the owners of trucks with this problem have come together enough to get them to fix it. Also I hope everything is going good with your back and thanks for the instructions if I do have to do it my self.

No but if there is an overwhelming problem, GM should fix it with a recall. If there is an aftermarket part or kit that solves this issue such as the one that you bought I think that GM should fix the problem. It is not an issue like performance or increased HP but a system failure that need to be addressed by the manufacture. I agree normal wear and tear is one thing and I love my truck but to have 90+% failure is unacceptable.

But see as its been stated before its new process that has the prob, not chevy. i mean sure its chevys falt for taking a t-case that has never had that much torque behind it and put it in w/ the duramax. I have not heard of this prob with any of the gas engine truck but i could be wrong. Your right that it should have been adressed by GM and fix the problem but if they can find away around it they are gunna do it. I am definitely on with you on the recall deal but for now this is all anyone can do is try to fix it before its too late and thats whats so great about this forum is that it is bein let known to everyone that it needs to be addressed

Ive got 55k on mine. guess ill wait and see.

Yes it has happened to Gas trucks as well, and yes I wish GM would cover it, but this being the real world I went on my own and just fixed it, it just makes it alittle easier since I do noy have the payment.

Ive got 55k on mine. guess ill wait and see.

I wouldnt wait. I know they say why fix it if it aint broke but this one of those times where fixing it before hand can save you some money. If its out of warrenty i would suggest putting Erics kit in and jsut elliminating the prob all together.

Can anyone tell me what the GM part number is for the "clip?" I have Eric's part which he provided promptly when I ordered it (Thanks!). I'm going to get into the transfer ca se this weekend and just want to have all that I "may" need...just in case. I've got no leakage to date...butthat doesn't mean the problem isn't underway and just hasn't showed yet (62K miles on my truck).

Thanks!

VB Dually,
The part number is 12470559. Eric should have these in stock. You should also get the gasket between the transmission and t-case again Eric has this also. Please support our vendors.

VB Dually,
The part number is 12470559. Eric should have these in stock. You should also get the gasket between the transmission and t-case again Eric has this also. Please support our vendors.

Thank you! I've already ordered the clip & tranny/transfer case gasket from Eric. Just after I posted my prior message here. I ordered his pump a few weeks back.

I agree about supporting the vendors here. Who knows how much $$ we've all saved by their experience...on the other hand...who knows how much we'll spend 'cause they keep putting such great toys in front of us! LOL :) I buy from them whenever I can.

How hard is the fix? whats involved?

How hard is the fix? whats involved?

Hold on for a few more days and detailed instructions will be coming out. A member here (Tolliwacker) is in the final stages of preparing the instructions along with pictures. He's doing a top notch job and the instructions are straight forward and easy to understand.
Basically...remove the input and out put shafts, disconnect the electrical connections from the t-case, remove the transmission cross member, split the case, remove the old pump housing and clip, re-install. The long pole in the tent is R&R of the case in an dout of the truck.
Did mine start to finish in a day.

Having trouble getting it loaded, the pictures are not wanting to show, but I am still trying!

I don't know if this has been posted in this mile long thread or not....but you do realise both Dodge and GM use New Venture Gear/New Process Gear transfer cases, right?

Having trouble getting it loaded, the pictures are not wanting to show, but I am still trying!

While you're working on the difficulties of loading the pictures...why don't you change the avatar and put your truck back on it!!! That must have been one #ell of a night!!!!!You're scaring me and worse yet you have my home phone:eek:

Ok, after getting a few replies about my Avatar, I am going to change it, now to find something politically correct, and none offensive as possible, I am not a serial Killer really, I just looked that way a few years ago.