My buddy has a ppe hot +2 for his lly i was wondering if i could take that ppe and install it in my truck save the tune to my efi live and take it out and give it back to him and i have the ppe hot + 2 tune and also if i could do this can i modify that ppe tune



Thanks for the help

yup you sure can.

If it's not illegal I really don't think it's the right thing to do.

like said yes, but that is taking money out ppe's pocket!

The spirit of EFI Live is supposed to be YOU doing the tuning. Yes what you propose can be done. Is it the right thing to do?

maybe he just wants to learn you cant fault him for that. now if you try and sell the tune or pass it off as your own then I think that is wrong. but for learning what someone else did to get that kind of power is a good idea its the fastest way to learn in my opinion thats why I like to dyno some of the tunes I make myself and then share them.

Yes car crafters22 thats excalty why efi live is like greek to me there is no way in hell i will ever learn this omg i never thought it would be so danm hard i wish i knew half of what mcrat or kenndy does i would be sitting on high cotton

I feel the same way duramaxin14 I would love to be able to borrow their brains for a while.

Pat do think we could work out some sort of loaner program I am willing to pay shipping here and back.hehe

I know what it feels like to have your info stolen. It is hard work making tunes. If you spent half the time of figuring out how to steal someone else's stuff logging and asking questions, you wouldn't need to look at PPE's tune or anyone else's. Saying it is Greek is BS. If you want to learn, then go learn. Don't steal someones stuff and call it learning. Buy your own PPE programmer and do with it what you want, but don't steal someone else's and use it. It is not right and there is no excuse for it. If you think it is okay to steal, then don't expect any help at all from most of us that don't agree with it. You will go nowhere fast.

I would like to see what PPE thinks about this. Get it straight from the source.

Jason

Here is another way to look at it.

If your kid was having a hard time in a class. Would you tell them to just copy the test answers from the A student or would you want them to learn on their own?

I understand your frustation, and know it is hard to learn with little help. "A" students are not that willing to give away their answers which they spent alot of time learning.

IMHO, I also think this coping is happening alot more than most will admit.

I would like to see what PPE thinks about this. Get it straight from the source.

Jason
The word "Piracy" comes to mind quick.........Seriously, it's not like you got a tune that someone put out to share like from the tune repository. You are stealing information that PPE had to spend it's money and resources to produce. Like someone said before whether it is legal or not it is the wrong thing to do IMO.

I dont think it is right especially if you dont own the tuner. But almost anyone here who says they have neverlooked at a copied file from any of the tuners is full of it! if you copy your own tuner and use it on your own truck and dont sell the tuner after that i feel its ok but dont load the files in someone elses truck, dont copy them and then sell the tuner.
But hey thats just my oppinion!

Seriously, you have an LLY. There are 30+ tunes in the repository for that engine.

It's not that hard to line them up against a stocker to see what changes are made where.

But I suppose morality and ethics are becoming passe these days.

Ben

does the PPE tuner not lock itself to the VIN when you use it the first time? the edge for the fords does, and from that point on, that VIN is the only one that you can use it on. I seriously doubt that PPE would overlook the possibility of this happening. you could still "steal" the tune, but you would be paying for another licence from EFI live to link to another truck, and I don't think it would be worth it. besides, you can far surpass what they do with those generic tuners with EFI anyways, I wouldn't waste my time.

Seriously, you have an LLY. There are 30+ tunes in the repository for that engine.

It's not that hard to line them up against a stocker to see what changes are made where.

But I suppose morality and ethics are becoming passe these days.

Ben


Unfortunetly I feel alot of the tunes in the library were developed from purchased tunes, because if you compare enough of them, they tend to have alot in common. I don't know this for a fact but am just using deductive reasoning. (assuming). Now reverse engineering is common place, and yes the lines of morals and ethics become blurry.

I myself am trying to learn as much as I can before contacting someone like Pat "Team Salad" and asking for them to share their ~500hp tune. I am sure there is alot I would learn from their tune. but also I feel there is a big difference between asking the guy who made the tune and asking the guy who bought the tune.

Well i dont plain on doing it because i no i could get in trouble doing it because its copy right but i was just wondering and as far as learning about where can i find some one close to me to teach me i dont wanna start messing with it my self i dont want to blow up my 40,000 dollar truck

read read and when you think you've read enough, read some more! almost anything that you'll ever need to know is up on this forum, and if its not there are countless people that would be right there to answer you questions. and most importanly, make BABY steps, SMALL changes. if you are ever not sure, make the change smaller....you'll get the hang of it.

Well i want to think all yall in advanced and im sure yall are going to be answer alot of question for me

I am not jumpin on ya, just sharing my thoughts, you have to decide for yourself. I am not a saint by any means.:D

Unfortunetly I feel alot of the tunes in the library were developed from purchased tunes, because if you compare enough of them, they tend to have alot in common. I don't know this for a fact but am just using deductive reasoning. (assuming). Now reverse engineering is common place, and yes the lines of morals and ethics become blurry.

Actually, if you were to get technical, all of them were...they all started from the one that was purchased with the truck, the one that GM had installed. which begs the question...if you base a tune off of that, and sell it, is that piracy of GM's software?

Actually, if you were to get technical, all of them were...they all started from the one that was purchased with the truck, the one that GM had installed. which begs the question...if you base a tune off of that, and sell it, is that piracy of GM's software?

Not according to all the tuning companies...

You have to decide in your own mind if it is right or wrong to copy a tune for whatever use. I think it is ethically wrong to copy a tune and give it to anyone else to use. That said, I wish I had been able to see what edge was doing with my Juice so I could learn from it. If I was able to, I would probably end up running some variation of what I learned. But since I got a tune with my purchase of EFI Live (most vendors supply a tune), I have a tune to use and learn from.

I think this also begs the question, if you were happy with your branded "box" tuner, why switch to EFI? I bought my EFI Live from John Kennedy and the tune he made for me is great and if/when I want more or less power or economy I am sure I will adjust that tune.

Now if I could only compare my new tune to the Juice tune:joke:

these threads always get interesting.

the endless debate.

I imagine if PPE were a huge, faceless corporation like GM, we would have less of a problem boosting their tunes.

I imagine if PPE were a huge, faceless corporation like GM, we would have less of a problem boosting their tunes.

Very true, VERY true.

and besides that, isn't there something about having more than 20 percent of the program changed, then it can't be considered infringment or piracy?

So if you don't anything about tuning to begin with, how do you determine the "professional" tune you are referencing is "correct" or contains the appropriate means to accomplish the goals you set for your truck? You could be learning bad habits and not even know it.

IMO, start with your stock tune, take small steps, one at a time, while logging every single change you make.

well at least with efilive you can alter a boxed tune to suit you needs, or fix things that these professonals over looked. I know I have had to do that.

Actually, if you were to get technical, all of them were...they all started from the one that was purchased with the truck, the one that GM had installed. which begs the question...if you base a tune off of that, and sell it, is that piracy of GM's software?

It's not piracy of GM's software because technically anyone who owns at truck has a license to at least RUN GM's software. Any issues arising from the purchase of a modified piece of that software is negated by the fact that the only people who would benefit from buying such modified software are those who are already virtually "licensed" to run that software.

I know what it feels like to have your info stolen. It is hard work making tunes. If you spent half the time of figuring out how to steal someone else's stuff logging and asking questions, you wouldn't need to look at PPE's tune or anyone else's. Saying it is Greek is BS. If you want to learn, then go learn. Don't steal someones stuff and call it learning. Buy your own PPE programmer and do with it what you want, but don't steal someone else's and use it. It is not right and there is no excuse for it. If you think it is okay to steal, then don't expect any help at all from most of us that don't agree with it. You will go nowhere fast.
Very well said.

I wonder how many people have downloaded music or software to use without buying it? Not condoning copying PPE's tune, but I am sure everyone knows about the copyright issues involved. There is a saying about people who live in glass houses and throwing stones. Sorry for the rant, I just get tired of reading dozens of threads about the moral issues of copyrighted material, when time could be better spent learning something valuable from the many knowledgeable folks here.

i can honestly say that beside me compare trippin tune to stock and 2 or 3 out of the repository...my tune is almot 100% mine.... i cant even get ahold of banks info even if i tried:rolleyes:


i know im above 400hp easily maybe close to 450 but im waiting on the tranny stuff to dyno so i can back up my time slipes

this is just curiosity - what if you never looked at PPE's tuning and cleared every chart on EFI Live and just happen to put the exact same numbers in every block? what is it then? (besides luck:D )

this is just curiosity - what if you never looked at PPE's tuning and cleared every chart on EFI Live and just happen to put the exact same numbers in every block? what is it then? (besides luck:D )

Chances of that are probably one in a trillion.

I've been playing with my tune for a year now and I think I've pretty much tapped every bit of HP out of my truck. I think I need a new CP3 to get my rail pressure to hold better to get more out of it. I'm thinking about getting a LBZ CP3 and regulator in the future. I personally take pride in what I've done with EFILive. It may not be the fastest and most powerful but it is my tune and I'm happy with it.

I totally agree with Bobo. I have also had some "secret" tuning info stolen from me. And if you really want the truth..you can easily make a tune that is way better than a PPE box tune.

I am sure there's more piracy of commercial tunes with EFI Live than most on here want to admit. It's human nature to "have a look" at a canned tune and use parts of it that seem to meet one's needs. I'm sure most of the commercial tuners knew this was going to happen when EFI was introduced.

The commercial tuners needed a way of locking there software so it can't be read by others, but, it looks like it's a little late now.

I totally agree with Bobo. I have also had some "secret" tuning info stolen from me. And if you really want the truth..you can easily make a tune that is way better than a PPE box tune.


No offense but that is kinda funny - everyone has the same tables and yours are SECRET.


Just a thought - but any LS1 forum you read under tuning has a few how-to's, it would be cool if there was a basic how-to tune your diesel document for the new guys. Maybe and update "McRat 20-20" with pix or ??

Just a thought.

No offense but that is kinda funny - everyone has the same tables and yours are SECRET.


Just a thought - but any LS1 forum you read under tuning has a few how-to's, it would be cool if there was a basic how-to tune your diesel document for the new guys. Maybe and update "McRat 20-20" with pix or ??

Just a thought.
x2

ya that would really help once i get it i know to just take baby steps but for us guys that can't go to a dyno or a track to test it all it would help to see if what i am doing is right or if i am going in the wrong direction i have read almost every post till my eyes about came out of my head about efi live and i am still don't know what to do i have the software on my computer and look at it and still nothing just a little help from some experts would be great