May have missed it, but didn't see a thread on this yet (just LMM vs. Ferd).

So let's start.

Both a bit of unknown. 6.7 is a real unknown.
But 6.7 can be had with a 6spd manual.
And it can be had with a factory turbo exhaust brake.
But LMM has the Allison. Don't know a thing about the new Dodge auto's.
GMC brakes last a whole lot longer.
Better looking truck too.

I'm kinda debating over the 2 right now...

--Rob

The 6.7 was a generator engine and the dodge auto. is Asian built. Mike

dodge autos suck..but cummins with a six speed ain't a bad combo:)

I think it's going to be a real close call when it comes right down to it. The new dodge 6-speed auto is an unknown while the allison is known to be solid. In large part the LMM is just an LBZ with a DPF. The 6.7 shares a lot of its parts with the 5.9 which is known to be a solid reliable performer. Other than the DPF the 6.7 is basically a bored and stroked 5.9. The Dodge has a SFA but it looks like a baboon's a$$. The GM looks alright but it has IFS. Myself I think I'll buy a Dodge this next time because I want a SFA and I like to shift for myself.

The 6.7's can't be too complicated (KISS theory). Bully dog already has a 140hp programmer for them.

The 6.7's can't be too complicated (KISS theory). Bully dog already has a 140hp programmer for them.
that's because it's not a new engine.....cummins had it out for awhile already.

I heard the new 6-speed auto will not be available until 08 on regular pickups. It's only available in 07 on the 3500 cab-chassis. No doubt that the cummins 6.7 is a great power plant. There's only one problem.... the motor is surrounded by a Chrysler pickup.

I run Tractors with the 6.7@ 160 hp they seem to be a good mid range engine for the Off Road Use. That engine is part of a Joint Venture Between Cummins/ Iveco There is also a big Brother 8.7 in the works which is basically a stroked out 8.3. So far all the engines seem to come from the Cummins side from what i have seen. Iveco Still is making a name in the USA for it self But their 9,10.3,12.9 Engines seem to have Excellent TQ and Hp for the sizes they have

You guys need to realize the transmission in the chasis cab truck (Aisin) and the one coming out in the 3/4, 1 ton truck is two different transmissions. From what I've been able to find out the new 6 speed auto in the regular trucks is going to be a hearty transmission. As far as the Aisin goes, been around many many year and is as good if not better than the Allison.

I heard the new 6-speed auto will not be available until 08 on regular pickups. It's only available in 07 on the 3500 cab-chassis. No doubt that the cummins 6.7 is a great power plant. There's only one problem.... the motor is surrounded by a Chrysler pickup.
I also heard this also, the Aisin is available only with the chassis cabs, the 3/4/ 1 ton trucks will be available with a 6 speed auto called 68re Orion if I'm not mistaken.

Your right, its gonna blow away the competition. Best motor, 6sp auto tranny, standard exhaust brake. Should be a no brainer

Your right, its gonna blow away the competition. Best motor, 6sp auto tranny, standard exhaust brake. Should be a no brainer

That is if Dodge survives the day. Talks are on going right now about GM buying out Chrysler AG. Here's the "Rest of the Story" http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006488122 ...............SWH...

If GM buys dodge than maybe we can buy heavy duty dodge trucks with a good ifs 4x4 that holds up like the chevies and still drives nice after 50000 miles. That would be a good truck.

If GM buys dodge than maybe we can buy heavy duty dodge trucks with a good ifs 4x4 that holds up like the chevies and still drives nice after 50000 miles. That would be a good truck.

UMMM that is chevys down fall. if they buy dodge i hope they can figure out how to use dodge's SFA. so maybe chevy can make a front end worth a damn.

wasn't GM and Chrysler working together to do somethings i think it would be cool to get a solid axle from the factory but i don't think we will see it in the near future

Any word on how good/bad the factory turbo exhaust brake is on the 6.7? Could you do such a thing with the LMM, or is the aftermarket still the best/only route?

I'm curious about the comments comparing the Aison against the Allison. Where can I read up more on this? How much torque and GVW is the Aison built for?

I just wish Dodge was a better looking truck, myself. GM is far better at designing the creature comforts and overall looks.

--Rob

If GM buys dodge than maybe we can buy heavy duty dodge trucks with a good ifs 4x4 that holds up like the chevies and still drives nice after 50000 miles. That would be a good truck.

The SFA and Cummins are Dodges 2 most redeeming qualities because like I mentioned before the truck itself looks like a baboon's a$$.

The SFA and Cummins are Dodges 2 most redeeming qualities because like I mentioned before the truck itself looks like a baboon's a$$.


Personally i think the dodge trucks look 10X better than the chevy's Chevy trucks look like crap. the GMC's look good but the chevys are just ugly. The last great looking truck chevy made was the 02HD

wasn't GM and Chrysler working together to do somethings i think it would be cool to get a solid axle from the factory but i don't think we will see it in the near future


it would not be the first time GM helped out Chrysler


the Hemi is a gm design and built by GM. GM sold it to Chrysler in the late 60s early 70s to bail chrysler out of debut

Personally i think the dodge trucks look 10X better than the chevy's Chevy trucks look like crap. the GMC's look good but the chevys are just ugly. The last great looking truck chevy made was the 02HD

I definitely agree the GMC is way better looking than the new Chevy. I just think the Dodge is too "in your face" for my taste. One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the Dodge that I do really like is the beltline of the truck. In the winter a truck will collect a lot of road grime quickly and the new dodge is at just the right height most of the road spray misses the side windows. I know in my old chevy the side windows become obscured much more quickly. I can't see the new GM/Chev being any different that way because they don't really sit any higher.

it would not be the first time GM helped out Chrysler


the Hemi is a gm design and built by GM. GM sold it to Chrysler in the late 60s early 70s to bail chrysler out of debut


WHAT??

Hemi engine designs have been around since the 1903 Welch. BMW used several hemi engine deisigns throughout the 30's. DUNTOV of Corvette fame designed "modern" hemi heads while contracted for FORD in the mid 40's. They were used on several pickup engines as well as racing engines. The design was used in WWII aircraft engines as well. DUNTOV was hired by Chevrolet in 1953. Chrysler introduced the first HEMI engine in 1948.... a 331CID. It grew through the years up to the 426. GM never made Hemi engines nor did they sell any engines to Chrysler. Chrysler owns the rights to the hemi name as well.

Well, if GM buys out Chrysler and Dodge like everyone, including the news is saying... Who knows whats gonna happen with dodge trucks???

WHAT??

Hemi engine designs have been around since the 1903 Welch. BMW used several hemi engine deisigns throughout the 30's. DUNTOV of Corvette fame designed "modern" hemi heads while contracted for FORD in the mid 40's. They were used on several pickup engines as well as racing engines. The design was used in WWII aircraft engines as well. DUNTOV was hired by Chevrolet in 1953. Chrysler introduced the first HEMI engine in 1948.... a 331CID. It grew through the years up to the 426. GM never made Hemi engines nor did they sell any engines to Chrysler. Chrysler owns the rights to the hemi name as well.


opps:o: i gues my gear head mentor is wrong:o:


thanks for setting it straight;)

Well, if GM buys out Chrysler and Dodge like everyone, including the news is saying... Who knows whats gonna happen with dodge trucks???

Maybe they'll end up being rebadged GMC's but with SFA's and Cummins engines (because that's what their established customer base would expect), plus the Allison :)

i think GM is just in talks to purchace chrysler only(pure talk) anyone remember the whole gm buying Nissan thing that just fizzled out.....i wouln't have hopes of seeing dodge end up a GM brand they're somthing to hold onto for D/C

I can't see GM benefitting from buying Chrysler. Heck, they couldn't even save their own Oldsmobile for pete sakes. If GM wanted a SFA they could do it in a heart beat, they don't need to buy anybody to do that. GM has the IFS because it's a niche market. GM is trying to get rid of anchors, not getting more. I hope the bean counters aren't at it again......

UMMM that is chevys down fall. if they buy dodge i hope they can figure out how to use dodge's SFA. so maybe chevy can make a front end worth a damn.

I've been driving GM products for nearly 30 years. The only front end problems I had during this time was with both the Dodges I owned prior to 2002. Both were SFA.....

it would not be the first time GM helped out Chrysler


the Hemi is a gm design and built by GM. GM sold it to Chrysler in the late 60s early 70s to bail chrysler out of debut

Please put down the crackpipe and back away slowly. Now, go find whoever told you that dumb shit and slap the piss out of them for being retarded. After that, do just the SLIGHTEST bit of research on the origins of the chrysler hemi. (Hint: The first chrysler hemi v8 for passenger cars appeared in 1951. I know-I have two of them in my storage building.)

WHAT??

Hemi engine designs have been around since the 1903 Welch. BMW used several hemi engine deisigns throughout the 30's. DUNTOV of Corvette fame designed "modern" hemi heads while contracted for FORD in the mid 40's. They were used on several pickup engines as well as racing engines. The design was used in WWII aircraft engines as well. DUNTOV was hired by Chevrolet in 1953. Chrysler introduced the first HEMI engine in 1948.... a 331CID. It grew through the years up to the 426. GM never made Hemi engines nor did they sell any engines to Chrysler. Chrysler owns the rights to the hemi name as well.

Close-chrysler's first passenger car hemi didn't appear until 1951. It only made 180 hp at the time. The 426 family of hemis is NOT AT ALL part of the same engine family as the first generation of chrysler hemis (331-354-392). The 426 hemi was first raced in 1964, and the street version was released in 1966. The engine is actually really part of the wedge big block chrysler family. To make the hemi, they of course designed the heads with the different port layout and chamber shape. The block itself is pretty similar to the regular wedge-headed rb (talldeck) big block. The front of the block is the same-same water pump will bolt up, as is the distributor. A hemi crankshaft will fit in a regular big block, and vice versa, though a hemi crank has 8 flywheel bolts instead of 6 like most other big blocks. The oil pump mounting is the same, as is the bellhousing bolt pattern. The hemi block is heavier, and it also has the center three main bearing caps crossbolted. There are other differences, but it's obvious when you compare a hemi to a big block that the hemi is part of the same basic engine family.

As you all probably know, the late model hemi (which isn't TECHNICALLY speaking quite a true hemi, actually a pentroof chamber design) is a totally different engine, not directly derived from any previous engine family.

While I'm on a roll, let's correct a few misconceptions about some other stuff.
Misconception 1: All dodge autos suck, they break for no reason.

Truth: All dodge autos put behind cummins engines sucked, EXCEPT FOR THE 48RE. Dodge has finally gotten a transmission to hold up well to the cummins. The 48re is the current (and outgoing) 4 spd auto behind the cummins. It has two disadvantages-too loose of a torque converter, and not enough forward gears compared to the competition. Please note that NO current stock automatic transmission can be expected to hold up behind an engine in these trucks producing much more than stock hp and torque. I see roughly the same estimates again and again for all three transmissions-about 75 hp over stock is the limit for reliability. I see this on dodge, ford, and gm websites. A guy I know has recently quit working on transmissions. He did that for roughly 25 years. He went and pulled the records at the shop, to see how many torqshifts, allisons, and 48re's had been worked on. I can't remember which had been worked on the most, but the one that had been worked on the least was the 48re. I know, you think I'm making it all up, and I don't blame you-this is a gm oriented site after all. Nevertheless, that is what happened. This guy's shop is in Texas, which happens to have quite a large number of dodge cummins trucks running around, so it really can't be said that he worked on less dodges because there's so few of them around.

Misconception 2: The cummins is great, but the truck around it is junk. (Extra bonus-add a statement that the dodge truck falls apart at 100k)

Truth: On average, they hold up just fine. Sure, a lot of people can come up with a tale where every dodge truck they've ever seen falls apart at 100k-at that exact mileage, the doors fall off, the wheels fall off, and the roof caves in. Yep, and you'll find folks that say the same kind of thing about ford and gm as well. They're all equally true (not very). Back to the real world, the later dodges in particular ('03 and up) seem to be showing a distinct lack of falling apart. They sure do have their problems, just like anyone else.

Misconception 3: The cummins is infallible.

Truth: Nope-there's a decent sized list of faults with different years of cummins engines. The #53 block is one, the killer dowel pin of the 12v engines is another, the vp44 injection pump is yet another (though that one is greatly aggravated by the crappy lift pump dodge chose to run on the truck, way to go dodge!)


Here's one about the gm trucks-

GM misconception 1: The ifs setup on the gm hd's is weak junk.

Truth: Four wheeling joy in a gm is just a set of tie rod ends away-the whole setup in general is NOT weak. How many times have you guys tried to explain that one? Yet somehow, again and again, it keeps popping up like a turd that just won't flush.

Well, a lot of use feel the same way about the "all dodge auto transmissions are junk" one, and the "the motor is great, but the rest of the truck is junk" one. Now you know how old it gets. Like I try to do with the gm and ford trucks, make the effort to find out what's actually going on before you endlessly repeat the same stuff you hear. You never know-it might not be true anymore!


A side note on the 68rfe transmission that's due out soon in the 6.7 pickups: I have a good friend here at my local dealership that got sent to a training class on that transmission. He told me it looks to be very beefy, and he's not one to just say that because it's a dodge design. (he's criticized other aspects of dodge design before, he's no blind fanboy.) He said that WITHOUT THE CONVERTER it weighs 390 lbs. He also said that the converter has a multiple disk lockup clutch, another step in the right direction.

I've heard RUMORS that the transmission was tested extensively at 1000 ft/lbs, but I do not know this to be true. I hope it is true, but time will tell.

As for whether or not the aisin or 68rfe is stronger than the current allison, I have no idea. I doubt very many people would be in a position to make such an assertion yet. I think the relative durability of these transmissions is another "time will tell" scenario.

Good post, it saved me a ton of typing. :thankyou2

Yep, thanks "v8440".

Is Dodge still using the Mercedes 6-spd manual transmission? If memory serves, it had better shift points than the NV5600 AND had a bigger clutch.

How're the Dodge brakes holding up on the newer trucks? My Chevy brakes keep going and going and going. A buddy's late 90's is repeatedly needing pads.

--Rob

Yes, the g56 transmission is still the 6 spd manual. I notice that power and torque are limited to right about the 5.9 levels when the manual is selected with the 6.7, kinda like gm limited the power of the lbz pretty severely with a manual trans.

The brakes seem to be fine on the dodges-I'm not aware of any constant issues with them. In fact, they do fine on my '98, which should have about the same setup as the '99 you speak of. It almost makes me thing something might be wrong with his truck's braking system somewhere if he's going through them all the time. It might also be the pads he uses. I personally like to use the cheap lifetime pads when I do them on any vehicle I own, as they are softer and don't tend to eat the rotors up. The tradeoff is having to replace them earlier, but it's worth it to me.

Hm. Yeah, but with 165,000 miles (265k km) on my D'Max, the front pads aren't even 50% worn. The rears I just changed, even though they were still around 30%. Rotors are in good shape too.

Really.

He goes through a set of pads on his Dodge every 35k miles or so.

When you look at the lifetime cost of the trucks, and you see this kind of difference, you have to factor it in.

Transmission: good to hear the G56 is still around, it sounded like a good one. I'm not *that* concerned about a de-rating to *only* 610ft/lbs!

I saw the peak torque numbers with the 68rfe where 40lb ft greater than with the G56. Does anyone know what the difference is at the rear wheels? I imagine they are almost identical at the rear wheels since the auto is bound to have more parasitic loss than the stick.

Back to the original topic ..........

May have missed it, but didn't see a thread on this yet (just LMM vs. Ferd).

So let's start.

Both a bit of unknown. 6.7 is a real unknown.
But 6.7 can be had with a 6spd manual.
And it can be had with a factory turbo exhaust brake.
But LMM has the Allison. Don't know a thing about the new Dodge auto's.
GMC brakes last a whole lot longer.
Better looking truck too.

I'm kinda debating over the 2 right now...

--Rob



2007 Cummins 6.7 meets the 2010 truck emmision standards.


Dodge claims a 90% reduction in NOx whereas the GM announcement for the LMM appears to claim a 50% reduction in NOx.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/23/034876.html

"The new 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty engine uses a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to virtually eliminate particulate matter emissions and an adsorber catalyst to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) by as much as 90 percent."

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=28148

"Upgrades to the engine and a new diesel particulate filter system help ensure the engine meets government-mandated emissions regulations for diesel engines manufactured beginning in January 2007, which require a 90-percent reduction in particulate matter and 50-percent reduction in NOx."

2008 Dodge Mega Cab Dually Long Bed, 6.7 Cummins, Aisin 6 speed auto. If they do this, I think I would go back and try a Dodge again. As long as the trans proves itself.

As far as some earl posts, my 99 ram 3500 had 255k and had the original rear shoes, and was on the second set of front pads.

The 48re trans still stinks, rough shifts, many people I haul with have replaced w/ less than 150k.

The Mega Cab seems to be more of a passenger truck. That tiny bed really kills it as a work truck for moving large loads. I can't imagine one of these with a fifth wheel in tow....

When you spend that kind of money for a truck, whats another $4500.

When you spend that kind of money for a truck, whats another $4500.


Thats a nice ride, yours? I have seen two other stretched Mega's in Indiana, one with pick up bed and one with a hauler bed.

Oh how I wish it was mine. Guy who owns a frame shop in Texas does those. Takes a week to do.

Both of the ones I saw had TX plates. They would make great haulers!!

I thought the 6.7 still made about the same power as the 5.9 did, so the only advantage would be the six speed tranny, the duramax has like 365 horsepower right, and the cummins is like 305, so it really wouldn't be that much different than, comparing the last 5.9 cummins to the LBZ or am I wrong? You would just get to see how the six speed compares to the 4 speed in the dodge.

Here's the specs for the 6.7 Cummins. It's no slouch at all! "This engine is rated with 350 horsepower (http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/applications/ram67_ratings.jsp) at just 3013 rpm. The 6.7-liter Turbo Diesel achieves a peak torque of 650 lb-ft at 1500 rpm for the automatic transmission configuration and maintains that peak torque all the way to 2800 rpm (a "best in class" capability for a heavy-duty diesel pickup)" Chris

huh, i was reading diesel power and they had one in a chassis cab models and had it spec'd at like 305hp and 610 torque, but it was a pre production version i believe.

huh, i was reading diesel power and they had one in a chassis cab models and had it spec'd at like 305hp and 610 torque, but it was a pre production version i believe.

The chassis-cabs are running a different tune and a different 6-speed auto than the regular trucks. The regular production trucks are supposed to be 350HP.

There are more differences than just a different tune in the chassis cab and regular trucks.

When you spend that kind of money for a truck, whats another $4500.

Now that's NICE!

There are more differences than just a different tune in the chassis cab and regular trucks.

As far as I know the differences are the tune, tranny, and the frame rails are different so as to be more upfit friendly. What are the other differences? I'm interested to know because I've been thinking about pricing one out for an ambulance.

well I can say this if they don't get any better fuel milage than that one in the diesel power mag did (8mpg) they won't sell any. I think that cummins was and still is a great motor but I believe GM and the duramax's technology has past them. Just my 2cent worth

I've read some real world mileage figures from actual owners, and most of them are getting way way above what that article reported. I have no idea why they got such poor results. I agree though, if all or most of them ended up with that kind of mileage, few people would buy them. You'd be better off going to an actual medium duty truck and having several times the capacity.

Looking at this from my point of view,I'll say this. I've always owned Chevy's,my dad has always owned Chevys and my grandpa has for most of his lift. That in mind I took an 07' 6.7/6spd for a drive and as much as I like my D-Max,I'll probably buy a CTD. GM has screwed up too many times. First it was IFS,now they've taken manuel tranny's away :mad: ,and the brakes suck compared to the ones on the new Dodge.It's nice to know GM's brakes last 150K but it they won't slow you down what good is it? And they are changing this D-Max motor so often it's rediculous. They should still have the LB7 IMO. The Dodge cost $10K less too :D . Bully Dog has one making over 425HP and 995TQ :D .

01duramax6spd sorry to here that you don't like it that gm keeps changing there motor every other year. but you have to do what it takes to keep the government happy and dodge is doing the same thing. As far as trannys go each to there own but you couldn't make me buy a manual, and the demand is for automatics so much nicer to drive and faster, stronger,and gives you both hands one to drive with and the other to wave at the dodge and ford guys as you drive past:stick_out

Looking at this from my point of view,I'll say this. I've always owned Chevy's,my dad has always owned Chevys and my grandpa has for most of his lift. That in mind I took an 07' 6.7/6spd for a drive and as much as I like my D-Max,I'll probably buy a CTD. GM has screwed up too many times. First it was IFS,now they've taken manuel tranny's away :mad: ,and the brakes suck compared to the ones on the new Dodge.It's nice to know GM's brakes last 150K but it they won't slow you down what good is it? And they are changing this D-Max motor so often it's rediculous. They should still have the LB7 IMO. The Dodge cost $10K less too :D . Bully Dog has one making over 425HP and 995TQ :D .
It would be ridiculous not to modifiy the LB7 so it meets emissions. The biggest thing I've found that is really a strong point on all the GM's is the brakes. I haul harder and more miles than 95% of you guys and I can tell you that brakes on these things rip. I'm with you on the IFS, but GM is catering to the skirt and tie crowd, you can't blame them, that's where the money is. I think the Cummins is a good motor but alittle over blown by their followers. Fords out of the picture right now so it's down to Cummins and Duramax. Cummins has their hands full......

so according to the dodge wedsite, this 6.7L isant offered in the 2500 or 3500. the 6.7 is only offered in the 3500HD Chassis. so are they not going to offer it in the 2500's?

The 6.7 will be offered in both the 2500 and 3500 this model year. It'll probably be considered an 07.5. It will be rated at 350/650, and the automatic transmission available behind it will be the "orion" 6 speed, NOT the same aisin 6 speed currently available in the chassis cab trucks.

Make of this what you will-I'm sure the "all dodge autos suck" folks will immediately discount it, but a good personal friend of mine is the drivetrain guy at the local dodge dealer. He and his helper do all the drivetrain work for the entire dealership, so he's intimately familiar with the guts of all drivetrain parts. He was sent to a class on the orion trans, and apparently it weighs 390 lbs without the converter. (!) The converter has a multidisk clutch. I'm not sure how many disks, I think two, but he could have said 3. My memory just isn't that good I guess. These two things are by no means the only improvements/changes made, they're just the highlights he mentioned. Anyway, it at least seems like they're trying to really get up to speed with the transmissions. Whether this one succeeds remains to be seen.

I don't know what the big deal is about GM's IFS. Unless you are hardcore 4wheeler, IFS is just as good. I have known people to go 200k+ on chev's IFS without any problems. Also If you look at the H2 Hummer, they have the same IFS and it seems to do just fine in the Baja 1000.

Ya rhinolite but i can guarentte u they have tie rod sleves or something on them hummers the tie rod ends snap like toothpicks when u pull the dmax in the sled pulls unless u have your torsion bars lowed but even then i see it but no its not only sled pulls almost every dmax thats ever pulled out of the hay field has broke there tie rod thats why ifs is junk now if u got sleves then u got a jammed up ifs but gm should make a soild axle like dodge and ford and they would not have the problems they do with ifs

:agreed:

i had a hard time understanding that one also!

btw, are they changing the numbers from the 3500HD to the 2500/3500 for the 6.7? as far as i know its at 305hp/610ft tq? something like that?

hukt on fonix werkt 4 me!!

As far as I know the differences are the tune, tranny, and the frame rails are different so as to be more upfit friendly. What are the other differences? I'm interested to know because I've been thinking about pricing one out for an ambulance.

The engines are different from a hardware standpoint also. They aren't big differences in base hardware, but there are a few changes.

btw, are they changing the numbers from the 3500HD to the 2500/3500 for the 6.7? as far as i know its at 305hp/610ft tq? something like that?


I looked on the dodge website and they were advertising 350hp/650ft tq.

The engines are different from a hardware standpoint also. They aren't big differences in base hardware, but there are a few changes.

Thanks for the heads up. You wouldn't happen to know what the changes are would you? Wouldn't want to end up with some minor change that makes parts a PITA to get in a timely manner.

Sorry guys i went to school in hardee county were they taught more about the fcat then they could anything eles.

It would be ridiculous not to modifiy the LB7 so it meets emissions. The biggest thing I've found that is really a strong point on all the GM's is the brakes. I haul harder and more miles than 95% of you guys and I can tell you that brakes on these things rip. I'm with you on the IFS, but GM is catering to the skirt and tie crowd, you can't blame them, that's where the money is. I think the Cummins is a good motor but alittle over blown by their followers. Fords out of the picture right now so it's down to Cummins and Duramax. Cummins has their hands full......

I regularly tow 20K+ lbs {anymore almost weekly} and my brakes suck.Just put new pads on and they still suck They always have towing,but the ones on the 07' 3500 6.7 I drove were great. You are exactly right GM is catering to that crowd,not those of us that work out trucks. And the "IFS rides smoother" is BS too cause my IFS rides like crap :mad: .

I regularly tow 20K+ lbs {anymore almost weekly} and my brakes suck.Just put new pads on and they still suck They always have towing,but the ones on the 07' 3500 6.7 I drove were great. You are exactly right GM is catering to that crowd,not those of us that work out trucks. And the "IFS rides smoother" is BS too cause my IFS rides like crap :mad: .


Hrmmmm. I see you have 285 tires on your truck, you wouldn't happen to have your t-bars cranked would you? If so it would explain alot. Your shocks would be stretched to the max and yeah it would ride like crap.

The solution? Cognito leveling kit.

WHAT??

Hemi engine designs have been around since the 1903 Welch. BMW used several hemi engine deisigns throughout the 30's. DUNTOV of Corvette fame designed "modern" hemi heads while contracted for FORD in the mid 40's. They were used on several pickup engines as well as racing engines. The design was used in WWII aircraft engines as well. DUNTOV was hired by Chevrolet in 1953. Chrysler introduced the first HEMI engine in 1948.... a 331CID. It grew through the years up to the 426. GM never made Hemi engines nor did they sell any engines to Chrysler. Chrysler owns the rights to the hemi name as well.

Chevy did make a 327 and 427 hemi for race only...

Come on jollyrogr, you don't want to talk about details like that when your trying to brag up a piece of CRAP dodge. :D

I regularly tow 20K+ lbs {anymore almost weekly} and my brakes suck.Just put new pads on and they still suck They always have towing,but the ones on the 07' 3500 6.7 I drove were great. You are exactly right GM is catering to that crowd,not those of us that work out trucks. And the "IFS rides smoother" is BS too cause my IFS rides like crap :mad: .

What kind of pads did you use?

I wonder if Hawk makes pads for these trucks. You'd see a HUGE difference...along with a switch to DOT 5.1 or Motul RBF600 brake fluid.

the only thing that steered me away from dodge was the crappy transmissions. Now that they offer the Aisin which ive heard is as good or better than allison and the 6.7L is only making the same power as the 5.9L id buy one. why? because if you add almost another liter to an engine and it makes the same HP think of all the power left in it for when dodge wants to tune it up after everybody elses stuff comes out. plus its an I6 design which cant be killed and is easier to work on.

the only thing that steered me away from dodge was the crappy transmissions. Now that they offer the Aisin which ive heard is as good or better than allison and the 6.7L is only making the same power as the 5.9L id buy one. why? because if you add almost another liter to an engine and it makes the same HP think of all the power left in it for when dodge wants to tune it up after everybody elses stuff comes out. plus its an I6 design which cant be killed and is easier to work on.

Too bad the rest of the truck is a Dodge. ;)

The 6.7 CTD in all but the cab chassis model, has 360hp and 650ft/lbs. ONLY the cab chassis model CTD has the lower output similar to the 5.9 CTD. Chris

The 6.7 CTD in all but the cab chassis model, has 360hp and 650ft/lbs. ONLY the cab chassis model CTD has the lower output similar to the 5.9 CTD. Chris
close...Outputs are as follows: 2500/3500 pickup-350hp/650tq w/auto, 350hp/610tq w/manual. 3500/4500/5500 c&c 305hp/610tq w/all transmissions

While we all are going so far off-topic here,I'll join in.In the late '60s,early'70s{yeah,I'm an old fart},I used to live for street racing with my small block Chevies.I rarely got beat,but 1 particular night when "Born to be Wild"" either came on the radio or my 8 track{told ya},I stupidly was screwing with what I thought was just a regular black Chrysler Belvedere.Well,we lined up at our favorite out of the way 1/4 mile marked out road.I pulled him off the line,then at about the half way point,all I could hear was the breathing of those enormous intake valves on his 426 Hemi sucking in air as he left me in the dust.Never saw the very small badging of 426 Hemi on his fenders until after the race.

If dodge now has a tranny that rivals allison i think chevy is in a lil bit of trouble, no tmuch, but a little. Also heard aisin is licensed by allison and is used in big Izuzu trucks and Izuzu makes Duramax which uses allisons. hmmm....

If dodge now has a tranny that rivals allison i think chevy is in a lil bit of trouble, no tmuch, but a little. Also heard aisin is licensed by allison and is used in big Izuzu trucks and Izuzu makes Duramax which uses allisons. hmmm....

Didn't Aisin supply tranny's for Saturn, Toyota, Pontiac? I have heard of problems with shift flare with some of the Saturn Tranny's. I realize these are different animals than a tranny mated to a diesel, just curious, thats all. I don't believe Allison makes trannys for small cars, but I could be wrong.

If dodge now has a tranny that rivals allison i think chevy is in a lil bit of trouble, no tmuch, but a little. Also heard aisin is licensed by allison and is used in big Izuzu trucks and Izuzu makes Duramax which uses allisons. hmmm....
back in the 80's gm had the luv which turned into the IZUSU PUP
do we remember that?now we have a duramax.
chrysler is looking for financial help and they now have an allison offshoot
trans in their trucks?lets jump ahead 10 years from now,850 h.p.
dodgeramax w/allison and s.f.a.:D

I could be wrong, but on Dodge's site, the Aisin is only listed as an option for the Cab Chassis trucks and that the 6.7 in that model has 325hp and 610ft/lbs of torque. The new 6 speed for the 2500/3500 is listed as the 68RFE with no mention of the Aisin as an option. Any thing for certain with what models the Aisin is on? Chris

The Aisin is only in the chassis-cabs. The 68RFE is a different 6-speed that is offered in the regular 2500/3500 line-up.

I think that the cummins is a great motor, jsut the truck its in stinks.

thejdman40 and the Chrysler enthusiasts.

Tell me one thing how come Chevy outsells Dodge 4:1 ? The market place has spoken and I for one think Chrysler is done real soon. The only value they have is the trucks and they get outsold 4:1 by GM and 6:1 by Ford. Remember those numbers too. That means you will also see that many more problems reported on these forums. It is just a numbers game.

Many moons ago I used to work on Dodges and my whole family was Mopar. One day I wised up because they do so many stupid, cheap things in their designs and their parts selections. It drove me nuts plus I was tired of walking. GM parts are far more available and excluding the parts for the Cummins they are cheaper as well.

Couple recent cases . Look at the payload of a Megacab Diesel . It is 1600lbs. Who is going to tow a fifth wheel with that when out the door even on small 5'ers you are overweight? Heck if you have 3 kids and a big travel trailer your stretchin it.

Look at their gassers. That engine is stuck way back up under there and is a pain to get to plus probably has more in cab noise. Decade after decade they do the same dumb stuff. They chase me away for ever and I feel I made out splitting from them.

I don't know what the big deal is about GM's IFS. Unless you are hardcore 4wheeler, IFS is just as good. I have known people to go 200k+ on chev's IFS without any problems. Also If you look at the H2 Hummer, they have the same IFS and it seems to do just fine in the Baja 1000.

IFS doesn't hold up well for towing, seen any long haulers with IFS? I tow about 12,000 occasionally, and have had to replace my steering pump, for leaking, and left axle bearing, replaced the steering gear with aftermarket, and now need Pitman arms, cognitos. Sure the brakes last, but not convinced on the stopping power, they seem to go to a point and then its seems like they have a mind of their own, wish they were more agressive.

That being said, other then replacing all my injectors at 60,000 miles(with secondary filtering since 20,000) I like this truck. But next time around I will look at all three, and the Dodge powertrain looks sweet, every old Dodge truck I see still on the road seem to have the Cummins badge on it. So GM outsells Dodge, Ford out sells GM. IFS has proven itself on the Baja circuit, solid axles are the way to go for rock crawling. All three make good trucks but I have issues with Longevity of the IFS for towing.

How would that dodge wander by the same point in it's life. I know some new dodges that wander out of the factory. IMO durability or not, I think GM's vehicles drive better than any on the market. JMO

Pretty soon, they will have a disclaimer in the owners manuals.....like a weight loss commercial.... "Your results my vary".

How would that dodge wander by the same point in it's life. I know some new dodges that wander out of the factory. IMO durability or not, I think GM's vehicles drive better than any on the market. JMO

Pretty soon, they will have a disclaimer in the owners manuals.....like a weight loss commercial.... "Your results my vary".

I agree with the "GM Driving better than others". Fords just drive funny, and when i've rode in dodges, there not to bad, but the GMs do drive better.

IFS doesn't hold up well for towing, seen any long haulers with IFS? I tow about 12,000 occasionally, and have had to replace my steering pump, for leaking, and left axle bearing, replaced the steering gear with aftermarket, and now need Pitman arms, cognitos. Sure the brakes last, but not convinced on the stopping power, they seem to go to a point and then its seems like they have a mind of their own, wish they were more agressive.

That being said, other then replacing all my injectors at 60,000 miles(with secondary filtering since 20,000) I like this truck. But next time around I will look at all three, and the Dodge powertrain looks sweet, every old Dodge truck I see still on the road seem to have the Cummins badge on it. So GM outsells Dodge, Ford out sells GM. IFS has proven itself on the Baja circuit, solid axles are the way to go for rock crawling. All three make good trucks but I have issues with Longevity of the IFS for towing.

To each their own,but I agree with rhinolite on this.I've gotten either a new Chevy or Jimmy pickup every 2-3 years since'93 and have had 0 issues with my front axles.Towing heavy,plowing,getting stuck in the mud.Did need new hubs once after slimy mud oozed in the ''sealed'' bearings and wiped them out,but no big deal.GM trucks ride the best,I like my comfort--nothing like that great GM feeling,no matter how cheap the General has become.

ya i have had my problems but unless you are going to put a 4 link and coilovers on a SFA i will take my IFS anyday but if you are looking for all out abuse then not even a SFA is going to be all that good nowadays you have to either buy a very expensive new one that has the King pins or find one of the rare ones that are still in a junk yard i just don't think ball joints can stand up to abuse how many offroad racers do you know that are running ball joints like ours or ones found on todays solid axles

the 2500 and 3500's now have Aisin as an option, drove one the other day, a 2500 mega cab withe the Aisin and exhaust brake. the tranny def rivals the allison, downshifts the same and everything and withthe exhaust brake option using the brakes isnt even needed. So now Ford is still not even an option but chevy is gunu be given a run for its money. I6 + awsome tranny + exhaust brake = my next truck.

The truck you drove didnt have an aisin, it had a 68rfe, the only dodge trucks to get the aisin are the Chassis Cabs

The truck you drove didnt have an aisin, it had a 68rfe, the only dodge trucks to get the aisin are the Chassis Cabs


It will be made available later in the year.

For all of you current GM owners who are thinking of making the leap to Dodge, or Ford because of new motors, or transmissions. I say go ahead, but the 2 things that stop you from doing it are FEAR AND COMMON SENSE. The GM trucks have the best and most proven diesel/transmission combo in the light truck world, why then would you want to look else where is beyond rational thought.:confuzeld Just my opinion. I for one am very happy with my truck, sure there are things that are going to go wrong, every make has it achillies heal.;)
Steve

For all of you current GM owners who are thinking of making the leap to Dodge, or Ford because of new motors, or transmissions. I say go ahead, but the 2 things that stop you from doing it are FEAR AND COMMON SENSE. The GM trucks have the best and most proven diesel/transmission combo in the light truck world, why then would you want to look else where is beyond rational thought.:confuzeld Just my opinion. I for one am very happy with my truck, sure there are things that are going to go wrong, every make has it achillies heal.;)
Steve

Well said Steve. I agree. Sure, variety is the spice of life, but when you already have an awesome thing, why change it.

JMHO.

No it def had an Aisin, just like the few random LMM's that were spotted early on this one is a random 2500 Aisin. Not to be rude but i know what i see and i am able to read.

Well said Steve. I agree. Sure, variety is the spice of life, but when you already have an awesome thing, why change it.

JMHO.


As a cummins owner I concur. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how the duramax/allison combo is the best/most proven combo out there. There's little doubt that the allison is better than the 48re or torqshift. We don't know about the two six speed autos coming from dodge now-initial reports are that they're great. As for the engine, I'm sorry but no version of the duramax is anywhere NEAR even REMOTELY as proven as the cummins. Yes the cummins has had some version changes, but no, they aren't as major as the ones the duramax has had. The 6.7 is a fairly incremental change from the 5.9, and there's no reason to think that it will lose any real amount of durability compared to the 5.9 (other than the added complication of the new emissions stuff, which all manufacturers are having to deal with.)

With that said, I like the duramax, the lbz especially, and I would buy one without losing any sleep if I couldn't have a cummins.

For all of you current GM owners who are thinking of making the leap to Dodge, or Ford because of new motors, or transmissions. I say go ahead, but the 2 things that stop you from doing it are FEAR AND COMMON SENSE. The GM trucks have the best and most proven diesel/transmission combo in the light truck world, why then would you want to look else where is beyond rational thought.:confuzeld Just my opinion. I for one am very happy with my truck, sure there are things that are going to go wrong, every make has it achillies heal.;)
Steve

Humm I like the duramax too, but saying it is a more proven engine than the Cummins is just plain not true. The Cummins has been in dodge trucks (relatively unchanged) for almost 20 years. The duramax has only been out for 6 years.

i bought i Dmax strictly due to the allison, you can pull more and put more power through it than the 48re. now that cummins is connected to a tranny thats the same or better than allison and theres an exhaust brake there really no comparisson. Ford is just **** outta luck, they dont have anything to offer and never has, plus their CRAP is the most expensive.

Didnt mean any offense road armor, just everything i've read so far has said only the Chassis cabs got it, now if the regular ones do, man that'd be great!

id consider a 350hp cummins/aisin tranny, 4x4, mega cab laramie :D

as would i, it was a pretty sweet ride, more low end torque than our Dmax's, grade braking like the allison, and you get the sweet jake brake sound coasting downhill, should sound sweet with a huge strait pipe exhaust or stacks on it.

This is a relevent statement based on where their current levels are at. Maybe GM was already considerably lower than Dodge was. I would rather see final numbers than reduction %.



Word I get (I work at a DaimlerChrysler engine plant) is that the current contract with Cummins expires in 2010 and that DiamlerChrysler is considering replacing it with the MBE900 Mercedes engine.

I agree. I want to see final numbers, than reduction %.

That makes total sense. Why buy one from the outside, when you have a better one in house. Thanks for the input.

for my money its the truck that has proven it self not just a tranny or motor or brakes ect ect thats why im with gm and not dodge or ford hey if it happens to have the best moror and tranny combo thats just a plus out of the box this truck will out pull out run out last out resale any of them so lets here it dodge boys those are facts

He was sent to a class on the orion trans, and apparently it weighs 390 lbs without the converter. (!) The converter has a multidisk clutch. I'm not sure how many disks, I think two, but he could have said 3. My memory just isn't that good I guess. These two things are by no means the only improvements/changes made, they're just the highlights he mentioned. Anyway, it at least seems like they're trying to really get up to speed with the transmissions. Whether this one succeeds remains to be seen.

where is this info? I have searched long and hard but cant find any specific info on the transmission :confused:

No offence, but I highly doubt the trans weighs 390 pounds. That would put the trans at almost 500 pounds with converter and fluid. Then add the large weight of the cummins (1100 pounds) and the truck would have a very small amount of (legal) payload capacity left compared to the other trucks.

ben

This is a relevent statement based on where their current levels are at. Maybe GM was already considerably lower than Dodge was. I would rather see final numbers than reduction %.



Word I get (I work at a DaimlerChrysler engine plant) is that the current contract with Cummins expires in 2010 and that DiamlerChrysler is considering replacing it with the MBE900 Mercedes engine.

Good point, I do not know......

I took the statements from GM and Chrysler to mean a change from the 2006 standard rather than from the actual 2006 truck emmisions. However, if both the trucks were at the 2006 standard, then it is one and the same.

The reason I thought the reference point was the standard is because GM is only claiming to meet the 2007 requirement with a 50% reduction, whereas Chyrsler is claiming to meet the 2010 requirement with a 90% reduction. It would be great if they gave actual numbers.

The MBE 900 will not exist in 2010.

The MBE 900 will not exist in 2010.


why not?

Diamler Chrysler is getting rid of all 3 of its HD diesel engines(Mercedes MBE 900,MBE 4000, Detroit Series 60) at the end of 09. With the 2010 Emmisions standards, they will be using an all new "Common Platform" engine as they're calling it. All of thier new engines, no matter what displacement, will share the same fuel system, so much as fuel system parts will be interchangable between all of their new engines. They will also be using urea injection, or at least, thats the plan.

Diamler Chrysler is getting rid of all 3 of its HD diesel engines(Mercedes MBE 900,MBE 4000, Detroit Series 60) at the end of 09. With the 2010 Emmisions standards, they will be using an all new "Common Platform" engine as they're calling it. All of thier new engines, no matter what displacement, will share the same fuel system, so much as fuel system parts will be interchangable between all of their new engines. They will also be using urea injection, or at least, thats the plan.


where can i read more about this that you speak?

Wow, the amount of false knowledge being spread in this thread is flat out amazing. I agree that the 5.9L cummins is a proven platform, but to say that it is the same as the 6.7L shows how very unfamiliar some people are with the product. The 6.7 has so many changes from base engine to external components that I would be very hesitant to say that this is the same "proven" Cummins of yore. The same holds true for the LMM, it may be changed less than the Cummins, but the aftertreatment makes these engines a whole different animal. The only positive thing I can say about the Cummins meeting 2010 emissions is that you guys won't have to deal with change 3 years from now and by then will be the "proven" platform...good or bad.

On Edit: Pretty soon Ford is gonna buy Cummins again if this thread keeps going...

My boss just got back from Frieghtliner School on the 07 Detroit/Mercedes Diesel Product Updates. I'm not one of those idiots who makes up stuff. We get it staight from the source, I am sorry, but nothing in writing.

On Edit: Pretty soon Ford is gonna buy Cummins again if this thread keeps going...

):h

Wow, the amount of false knowledge being spread in this thread is flat out amazing. I agree that the 5.9L cummins is a proven platform, but to say that it is the same as the 6.7L shows how very unfamiliar some people are with the product. The 6.7 has so many changes from base engine to external components that I would be very hesitant to say that this is the same "proven" Cummins of yore. The same holds true for the LMM, it may be changed less than the Cummins, but the aftertreatment makes these engines a whole different animal. The only positive thing I can say about the Cummins meeting 2010 emissions is that you guys won't have to deal with change 3 years from now and by then will be the "proven" platform...good or bad.

On Edit: Pretty soon Ford is gonna buy Cummins again if this thread keeps going...


Enlighten me...

Someone mentioned that the cummins has more low end torque than the dmax. Don't they reach their peak torque at the same RPM?

........Yes the cummins has had some version changes, but no, they aren't as major as the ones the duramax has had. The 6.7 is a fairly incremental change from the 5.9, and there's no reason to think that it will lose any real amount of durability compared to the 5.9 ........

.......The Cummins has been in dodge trucks (relatively unchanged) for almost 20 years. The duramax has only been out for 6 years.

........I agree that the 5.9L cummins is a proven platform, but to say that it is the same as the 6.7L shows how very unfamiliar some people are with the product. The 6.7 has so many changes from base engine to external components that I would be very hesitant to say that this is the same "proven" Cummins of yore....

Enlighten me...


A paragraph from the same article referenced in an above post about the new Cummins engine:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/23/034876.html

Start Quote:

As durable as it is powerful, the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel has life- to-major overhaul intervals of 350,000 miles, providing more than a 100,000- mile advantage over the competition.

Nearly 40 percent of the new engine's parts are carryover, with modifications geared to surpass emissions standards and increase horsepower and torque, while maintaining the durability associated with Dodge and Cummins.

End Quote:

If I am reading this correctly, then 60+% of the parts in the 6.7 engine are new ........ but it is still an inline 6.

The 6.7 is still an inline 6, but unlike the D-max, Cummins has more than just Dodge to cater to, 07 is the last year for a Medium Duty Cat in a Freightliner, Its all Mercedes and Cummins from here on out, alot of our customers opt for Cat because its reputation is better than the Mercedes, and with 08 on the way, the Cummins ISB and ISC engines will be finding themselves more and more under the Hoods of Freightliner M2's and Sterling Acterra's.

You have to remember that unlike the D-Max or that thingy International calls an engine, Cummins stakes are a little higher, and messing up could be disastrous for them. EGR Coolers and all that other Emmisions stuff aren't new, Mercedes has been running cooled EGR since 04, sure we get the occaisonal bad EGR cooler that leaks coolant into the intake, but for the most part, they have not shown any problems. The Detroit Series 60 has been running Cooled EGR and a VGT since 04 with very few problems, mostly from operator neglect, like misaligned EGR tubes and excessive idling.

The DPF's are the thing I'm worried about,With 900 degree exhaust temps, that is the reason that the new Exhaust tips are so wierd looking, so they don't set anything on fire. It will be very interesting once they get out there, but here we are, 3 1/2 months into 07, I have yet to see a Detroit or a Mercedes with a DPF. Both Detroit/Mercedes and Cummins have "tested" millions of miles on DPF's, and I think they will eventually work out, its just gonna take time.

Yeah, but, you also must remember that Cummins puts out a very different engine even from what are medium duty, JUST FOR DODGE...different intake setup, different EGR system, different aftertreatment and regeneration strategy, different software in the ECM(and I don't just mean a calibration). The medium duty is not 2010 compliant. Cummins has complete engineering staff dedicated to the 1 platform that is the 6.7L in the Dodge trucks. As was said earlier, the 6.7 is only about 40% carryover (even though much of the base engine is similar-->read, not the same, but similar) utilizing a new block, new injector, new turbocharger, new egr system, and all new aftertreatment (which is different for the chassis cab and the regular trucks I might add). Like I said, all new ballgame.

The reason so many of those parts don't carryover is simple. The thing is is bored and stroked compared to the 5.9. That means different pistons, rods, crank, most likely head, and who knows what else. Also the EGR system and DPF ad up to a fair number of parts. None of which means that the core design has changed much at all. I really don't expect cummins to make a misstep with this engine. As another member has already stated Cummins has a great deal riding on it.

The reason so many of those parts don't carryover is simple. The thing is is bored and stroked compared to the 5.9. That means different pistons, rods, crank, most likely head, and who knows what else. Also the EGR system and DPF ad up to a fair number of parts. None of which means that the core design has changed much at all. I really don't expect cummins to make a misstep with this engine. As another member has already stated Cummins has a great deal riding on it.

That is all fine and dandy, but to me...proven is as proven does. None of the new engines has done a whole lot of anything yet.

That is all fine and dandy, but to me...proven is as proven does. None of the new engines has done a whole lot of anything yet.

Fair enough. I have no plans of buying a new truck for at least the next couple of years for exactly that reason. The heat involved with this DPF crap scares me to some degree.

I drove a 6.7 Cummins Dodge yesterday. Very nice, love the trans and the exhaust brake, very cool. Trans didn't defuel on the shifts near as bad as my allison. Power was pretty good, but I think my Dura would eat it.

Where does the idea of the IFS on Chevy/GMC being a weak link come from? I've owned numerous GM pickups since 1988 and have had NO problems with any of the IFS systems. Bill Martin

Where does the idea of the IFS on Chevy/GMC being a weak link come from? I've owned numerous GM pickups since 1988 and have had NO problems with any of the IFS systems. Bill Martin

the idea comes from people who are simply ignorant and are basing their oppinions on assumptions, and because, cars use IFS, GM HD's use IFS, so the GM HD IFS is obviously a direct carry-over from a minivan!! :duh: :rolleyes:

I agree, we had a 1988 offroad beater half ton that we plasma cutted the fenders on, stuffed in 35's, welded the front and rear diffs, and beat the crap out of that thing offroad. We hit some steep inclines so hard that it pushed the whole bumper in and creased the fenders, simply from the shock, not because of actual crumpling on impact. We took it off jumps and definetly tested the limits of that worn out, 20 year old, rusted IFS, and simply could not break anything. We did end up trashing the 700R4 tho :D

The only issue i have with the Dodge SFA is the fact that they don't have locking hubs.
They spin the front axles constantly, my brother in law has a 94 with 150k on it and all his issues have been with the front axle joints.
Other than that I believe a Dodge is as good as GM,better than Furd.
Nephew in Arizona had a 05 crew cab cummins w/auto and loved it untill they stoped at a wal-mart for a few minutes and come out and it was gone.
thieves like diesels too.

Merle

Fair enough. I have no plans of buying a new truck for at least the next couple of years for exactly that reason. The heat involved with this DPF crap scares me to some degree.

Thats why I have a couple dealers hunting for an 06 Mega Dually for me, plus 0% for 72 helps too:D.

This is a relevent statement based on where their current levels are at. Maybe GM was already considerably lower than Dodge was. I would rather see final numbers than reduction %.



Word I get (I work at a DaimlerChrysler engine plant) is that the current contract with Cummins expires in 2010 and that DiamlerChrysler is considering replacing it with the MBE900 Mercedes engine.

If they let it go,Ford will pay the piper to pick it up,by by Navistar. Idrive a dodge but I will jump ship before I drive a nazi diesel

As I said in my earlier post, I work at a DiamlerChrysler engine plant. What I didn't say was that I work at Detroit Diesel and I work with all the engines (Current and development). It was my boss who told me that the MBE900 would be used in the Dodge Ram in 2010 and believe me, he would know.

They do have a new engine that they are currently calling the Heavy duty, which will replace both the Series 60 and the MBE4000 but it can't replace the MBE900 because it is too heavy for the medium duty applications that the MBE900 is used for.

The 2007 MBE and Series 60 engines already use a common platform electronics package (DDEC VI).

With Diamler dumping Chrysler and Cummins being such a huge selling point I would think that won't happen.

With Diamler dumping Chrysler and Cummins being such a huge selling point I would think that won't happen.

Personally, I hope the Cummins does go after 2010. It would be a moronic move to keep Cummins when MB/Detroit makes a better diesel. The problem is alot of people are narrow minded and are afraid to change. Bring on the MB powerplants.

Personally, I hope the Cummins does go after 2010. It would be a moronic move to keep Cummins when MB/Detroit makes a better diesel. The problem is alot of people are narrow minded and are afraid to change. Bring on the MB powerplants.


Just curious what you think is better. Not flaming you, just genuinely curious.

Where does the idea of the IFS on Chevy/GMC being a weak link come from? I've owned numerous GM pickups since 1988 and have had NO problems with any of the IFS systems. Bill Martin

If you tow alot, be prepared to replace your Cognito, pitman arms. I like the ride, but this is the weak link on the IFS. Mine need replacing at 85,000, makes the Dodge, 6.7, new 6 spd auto, SFA, Mega cab. look pretty good, only problem is the tow ratings aren't that great.

I don't know that being IFS is the weak link, but the front stearing components are not as strong as they need to be. I base this of the fact that my 2000 Super Duty went more than 250K without any front suspension problems (other than I never liked they way it steered) and my current Dmax has had the idler & pitman replaced twice, ball joints once, tie rods once, and stearing gear box once. All this in less than 100K.

All that being said, I still prefer the ride, handling and stearing feel of my GM truck.

Personally, I hope the Cummins does go after 2010. It would be a moronic move to keep Cummins when MB/Detroit makes a better diesel. The problem is alot of people are narrow minded and are afraid to change. Bring on the MB powerplants.



You must have had a bad experience with Cummins.. I am also curious as to why you would rather have MB diesels??

Just curious what you think is better. Not flaming you, just genuinely curious.

You must have had a bad experience with Cummins.. I am also curious as to why you would rather have MB diesels??

Lets see, will not start ( like when power goes out. ) without a block heater in sub zero temps like MB & CAT's do. Smoke like a chimney when cold, PITA when etests come around ( Annually up here. ) All the Cummins Powered trucks where I used to work ( MY Dad still works there. ) were all a pain compared to 3 MBE4000, and 2 CATS.

If they are loosing out in the AG industry to others ( SISU, & JD no longer uses them. ) Then that has got to tell you that other better engines exist.

They served their purpose when Dodge truck sales were less than pathetic, but now with MB being inhouse, it is a no brainer. Use the inhouse, and wave bu-bye to Cummins.

I personally don't think that the IFS is weak. But the steering can use some work and there a lot of vendors out there that sell parts to ad strength to the steering. If you get the tierod sleeves and steering supports from cognito there won't be any issues.

Lets see, will not start ( like when power goes out. ) without a block heater in sub zero temps like MB & CAT's do. Smoke like a chimney when cold, PITA when etests come around ( Annually up here. ) All the Cummins Powered trucks where I used to work ( MY Dad still works there. ) were all a pain compared to 3 MBE4000, and 2 CATS.

If they are loosing out in the AG industry to others ( SISU, & JD no longer uses them. ) Then that has got to tell you that other better engines exist.

They served their purpose when Dodge truck sales were less than pathetic, but now with MB being inhouse, it is a no brainer. Use the inhouse, and wave bu-bye to Cummins.


That sucks you guys had such bad luck with them. They smoke when cold because of fuel system problems (not made by cummins btw) We run them and have not had much trouble out of em. They are a little less expensive to maintain than the CAT powered trucks. Although I have also heard that the CAT engines we have are the black sheep of the family...

I have no idea what MB offers, are the engines that could replace the cummins in dodge trucks V8's or 6 cylinder??

That sucks you guys had such bad luck with them. They smoke when cold because of fuel system problems (not made by cummins btw) We run them and have not had much trouble out of em. They are a little less expensive to maintain than the CAT powered trucks. Although I have also heard that the CAT engines we have are the black sheep of the family...

I have no idea what MB offers, are the engines that could replace the cummins in dodge trucks V8's or 6 cylinder??

The new Freightliners have the MBE4000, the one Freightliner has a ( non-current ) C12, and I believe the other IH has a C15. Dad's old IH had a DTA466 ( non electronic ), so reliability was never a problem, only 1 head gasket. Started everytime. The MBE4000 has been the same, no major issues. ( 1 block heater, warranty. ) More power, and mileage is the same. From what I have heard ( on here. ) the MB900 could replace the Cummins in the Dodges. I wish all the best to anyone who buys a Dodge/Cummins, Ford/IH, GM/Dmax. ( For the $$$$ they cost now adays. ) It will be interesting to see the direction GM & Dodge go with their diesels, and to see what the future holds for the Ford/Navistar partnership.

Trying to compare hidden secrets is impossible to do. Just give up and drive whatever gets the job done.

technology and time does not allow us to respectfully compare the big three

doomzee makes a great point. There are so many unknown varialbles and issues when it comes to what version of what motor actually winds up in Ford,Chevy,Dodge at any given year. The best we all can do is try and evaluate and figure out what combinations are available when your ready to buy and get what will work best for you. I love the fact that there will be a bunch of cool new choices when I'm ready for my next truck.

If ddge does drop the cummins i honestly hope whatever replaces them is still a I6, theres nothing like room under the hood when you need to do work!

The MBE 900 is an inline 6 cylinder.

You can read more about it here: http://www.detroitdiesel.com/engines/mbe900/default.aspx

Keep in mind that their are currently 8 different ratings listed for the MBE 900. I don't know which one will be used in the pick ups.

The 2007 version has a dual turbo set up and comon rail injection.

Cummins who????:)

If ddge does drop the cummins i honestly hope whatever replaces them is still a I6, theres nothing like room under the hood when you need to do work!


Yep.

That is the one thing I hate about my Dmax, the turbo swap was apain in the Arse.:) You cant get to anything with out removing everything:cool:

i work on a small fleet that has 4 mb9s and 5 mb4s they havnt been very good to us. the 9s had turbo problems and throw codes all the time .the 4000 throw codes and loose antifreeze somewhere plus they are very hard to work on to much crap packed in . I WILL HATE TO SEE THE SEREIS 60 GO .In my experiance they are by far the best engine out there. I would like to see them make engine in a 6.6 or whatever

........D-max Man, if the engine has a fiberglass oil pan...I don't want it. If it needs High RPM for the "turbo brake" to work...I don't want it. If it's full of Tech crap (hoses and wires everywhere)...I don't want it. If it over-heats and easily cracks the block...I don't want it. If it eats coolant and tosses rods...I don't want it.

Say what you want about the Cummins but it will bend well beyond the others before it yeilds to self destruction.

Answer to the topic question, donno? Given what's on the table today I don't think there is a 100% solid answer. The 2007+ 6.6 and 6.7 both have their selling points but neither have a track record as of yet.

IMHO.....Were you to want a pleasure truck choose GM. If you want a work truck, choose DC.

........D-max Man, if the engine has a fiberglass oil pan...I don't want it. If it needs High RPM for the "turbo brake" to work...I don't want it. If it's full of Tech crap (hoses and wires everywhere)...I don't want it. If it over-heats and easily cracks the block...I don't want it. If it eats coolant and tosses rods...I don't want it.

Say what you want about the Cummins but it will bend well beyond the others before it yeilds to self destruction.

Answer to the topic question, donno? Given what's on the table today I don't think there is a 100% solid answer. The 2007+ 6.6 and 6.7 both have their selling points but neither have a track record as of yet.

IMHO.....Were you to want a pleasure truck choose GM. If you want a work truck, choose DC.

Can you give a little reasoning behind your opinion? :D

I have a feeling that my Duramax will work just as hard, actually harder, than your Cummins on the Jobsite.

Back on topic. The Cummins is realible and proven motor! But gotta love the fight the Duramax has put up to everyone....:)


'Ain't no substitute for cubic inches'

Although the Cummins is down a few cubes 359/403 it does pretty good for an old cornbinder motor.

44 cubic inches is a lot! (try stacking some sugar cubes, I was bored and that is a lot of cubic almost inches!)

From owning both trucks, they both have their place. For now my place is behind Duramax, but that gap is closing as I add more BOMBs here and there.:D

Can you give a little reasoning behind your opinion? :D


I think the Cummins system works better. I'm not saying the LMM is a bad choice, it's my second. ;) If only I had an 07' GMC with a Cummins, all else remain the same.........

MBE engines have aluminum oil pans - the Series 60 has the composite pan.

The Turbobrake gives better stopping ability than Jake Brakes do and without all the noise.




Yes, the Turbo brake has more resistance or braking power.....@ high RPM. Let the revs drop a bit and it's a whole new ball game.

Back to the Series 60 for a second--I always found it strange that GM didn't put their own Detroits in pickups, a Series 50 or something smaller they have. What would have been wrong with that? Detroit is their in house engine after all.

Or used to be anyway.

I have now driven all 3 new trucks. The Cummins 6.7 is definately the most powerfull and fastest,hands down. Now I'm a GM diehard but if I was buying new it's be a 6.7 CTD. I was dissapointed with the LMM :( ,unfortunately. Not the power I thought it should have. Very similar to the 6.4 PSD powerwise :( .

I have now driven all 3 new trucks. The Cummins 6.7 is definately the most powerfull and fastest,hands down. Now I'm a GM diehard but if I was buying new it's be a 6.7 CTD. I was dissapointed with the LMM :( ,unfortunately. Not the power I thought it should have. Very similar to the 6.4 PSD powerwise :( .

Did you try the cummins with the new 6-speed auto or the handshaker? Curious to know how the new auto feels. Comparable to the Allison?

This thread has been cleaned up and lots of un-necessary posts deleted, there will be more going away soon as well.

Please keep this on topic.

Whats the difference between the two on how they handle emissions?

I never tried the new 6spd auto/6.7 but I'd hope it was better than the previous one. The LMM just didn't have the power the 6.7 does for takeoff. Be nice to put them together equally equiped and hook 20K behind them and pull a good pass :D.

My buddy bought a new 6.7 Cummins 6 speed auto. He told me he put 2 trucks on a LBZ already. I might go out and race him this saturday and see what happens. I'd be over at his house right now, but he lives 4 hours away. Kinda hope he beats me, than I can get my PPE on the way.:)

I drove one, it felt good, but I didn't think it was faster than mine.

I read somewhere that the 6.7 with a manual transmission is not rated to have as much torque as the auto. is this true?

I read somewhere that the 6.7 with a manual transmission is not rated to have as much torque as the auto. is this true?

I read the same thing. I suspect it puts out less at the crank and the same at the rear wheels because there should be less parasitic loss with the stick.

The Aisin is a solid tranny from what Ive heard, also the 6.7 is supposedly just a bored and stroked 5.9

After reading through all 16 pages of this thread I believe I can add a little or answer some questions about the new Dodge C&C, 6.7 engine and Aisin transmission. I'm a hotshot driver, on my third Dodge truck, the first went 419,000 miles, the second, an 03 was sold with 345,000 miles on it last November when I got my Cab and Chassis. I now have over 31,000 miles on the truck pulling a large gooseneck picking up and delivering equiptment in the oilfield.

My truck is a long wheelbase,(11 ft bed) single cab 3500 with the 6.7 engine and Aisin transmission. It does have the exhaust brake which is now standard on all trucks with the 6.7 engine.(I had to pay for mine, they made it standard later) All cab and chassis trucks have a solid front axle, it doesn't matter if it is 4X4 or 2 wheel drive, it has a solid front axle. The truck is a very solid stable platform for pulling a trailer which is what I do for a living. The longer wheelbase makes for a much smoother ride than I had in the 03 I had. To this point I have done nothing other than routine maintance on the truck.

I really don't care what flavor truck anyone drives, they are the one paying for it. I posted on this thread because there wasn't anyone with any real experience about the Dodge 6.7 posting. If anyone has any questions about this truck, which is what this thread started as being about, I'll be glad to answer them if I can. If you want to argue, I'll ignore you. I have to many miles behind the Cummins for you to change my mind and I'm sure I won't be able to change yours, so don't bother.

After reading through all 16 pages of this thread I believe I can add a little or answer some questions about the new Dodge C&C, 6.7 engine and Aisin transmission. I'm a hotshot driver, on my third Dodge truck, the first went 419,000 miles, the second, an 03 was sold with 345,000 miles on it last November when I got my Cab and Chassis. I now have over 31,000 miles on the truck pulling a large gooseneck picking up and delivering equiptment in the oilfield.

My truck is a long wheelbase,(11 ft bed) single cab 3500 with the 6.7 engine and Aisin transmission. It does have the exhaust brake which is now standard on all trucks with the 6.7 engine.(I had to pay for mine, they made it standard later) All cab and chassis trucks have a solid front axle, it doesn't matter if it is 4X4 or 2 wheel drive, it has a solid front axle. The truck is a very solid stable platform for pulling a trailer which is what I do for a living. The longer wheelbase makes for a much smoother ride than I had in the 03 I had. To this point I have done nothing other than routine maintance on the truck.

I really don't care what flavor truck anyone drives, they are the one paying for it. I posted on this thread because there wasn't anyone with any real experience about the Dodge 6.7 posting. If anyone has any questions about this truck, which is what this thread started as being about, I'll be glad to answer them if I can. If you want to argue, I'll ignore you. I have to many miles behind the Cummins for you to change my mind and I'm sure I won't be able to change yours, so don't bother.

Exactly the kind of first hand experience this thread could use. Did your 03 have an auto? How would you compare it to the Aisin? I imagine the Aisins is an improvement with the two added gears. How does the Aisin compare to the Allison?

Exactly the kind of first hand experience this thread could use. Did your 03 have an auto? How would you compare it to the Aisin? I imagine the Aisins is an improvement with the two added gears. How does the Aisin compare to the Allison?

My 03 was a NV5600 stick, I had no problems with it. My first Dodge, a 95 3500 had a 47rf? can't remember what the letters were, but it was upgraded to a full DTT transmission. It would pull good but never seemed to be in the right gear. The Aisin is much better. I don't miss the stick at all. It pulls good, and always seems to be where it needs to be as far as gears go. I've never driven a truck with an Allison, so I really can't compare the two.

eb290: What made you switch from a nv5600 to the Aisin? Do you feel it pulls as good as the 5600?
I haven't had a channce to drive an Aisin but comparing the Ally and the Furd auto to the M56 behind the 6.7 there is no comparason.
Just curious how it acts?

For me, it is just as good, if not better than the stick. The Aisin with its 6 gears it just always seem to be in the right gear, if I think it needs to be in a lower gear a push on the go petal puts it there. Backing up on a soft location with a heavy load is much better with the Aisin because there is no clutch chatter, it just moves backward. If anyone has tried to back up a hill or on soft ground with a load with a standard transmission they know what I mean by clutch chatter. A lot of times in the oil fields you will come up to a rig and have to turn around to get a load off from the correct side, it's usually tight turns on soft ground, the Aisin makes it a lot easier than with a stick.

As far as just stright pulling I believe the Aisin is just as good as with the stick. I make runs out to Odessa, Tx fairly regularly and I can hold my speed better with the Aisin than I could with the NV5600. With 20 -22,000 behind me I can hold between 60 -65 mph on the big hills west of San Antonio on I-10. It will down shift as far as forth, (direct) and hold 2900 rpm until it needs to shift up. I really never run the transmission in tow/haul except when I want to really use the exhaust brake. It really works well in the tow/haul mode. I believe with the same load behind them, my 07 truck would be quicker to 65mph than my 03 truck was. The engine on the Dodge has a 100,000 mile warranty, the Aisin transmission has a 180,000 mile warranty. That tells you what they think of the transmission.

That sounds like a big improvement over the last auto they had. My buddy's 04' tranny is fryed with only 80K on it :mad: and it's stock. He's towing around 25-30K though. He's looking to trade for a 6spd so he can avoid this again.

Has the new Dodge 2500's w/ the cummins 6.7 been released yet? Are there any articles out there about it?

Has the new Dodge 2500's w/ the cummins 6.7 been released yet? Are there any articles out there about it?

Yes, it has been released, there are some on the dealer lots around the country. I don't know about any articles on them. You can get quite a bit of information on some of the Dodge forums if you care to go to them. http://turbodieselregister.com/ is one and http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/index.php is another.

Just like this forum, you will get a lot of varied opinion.

There still trying to sell 5.9's in Canada. Probably because we don't have the emissions laws yet so they can get away with putting 5.9's in 07's built after Jan. 1.

There still trying to sell 5.9's in Canada. Probably because we don't have the emissions laws yet so they can get away with putting 5.9's in 07's built after Jan. 1.


Don't you get etested in BC? In Ontario, bi-annual for personal verhicles ( except if over a certain GVRW. ), and annual for commercial vehicles.

The only people being tested in BC live in the Lower Mainland. Even that is on its way out as air-care is being scrapped in the next couple of years.

The only people being tested in BC live in the Lower Mainland. Even that is on its way out as air-care is being scrapped in the next couple of years.

Not here. There was talk of it being scrapped, but the problem is all the shops that bought mucho expensive dynos, they would be all over the government for some kind of reimbursement. For now it is not going anywhere.

The Aisin is a solid tranny from what Ive heard, also the 6.7 is supposedly just a bored and stroked 5.9
actually the 6.7 is a new engine with a completly different block with siamesed bores as their big brothers do. There has been talk about a european 6.7 that actuall is a bored/stroked 5.9 but is not sold here.
JIM

actually the 6.7 is a new engine with a completly different block with siamesed bores as their big brothers do. There has been talk about a european 6.7 that actuall is a bored/stroked 5.9 but is not sold here.
JIM

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by siamesed bores?:o:

My buddy bought a new 6.7 Cummins 6 speed auto. He told me he put 2 trucks on a LBZ already. I might go out and race him this saturday and see what happens. I'd be over at his house right now, but he lives 4 hours away. Kinda hope he beats me, than I can get my PPE on the way.:)

I drove one, it felt good, but I didn't think it was faster than mine.


I beat by 2 trucks, he was dead even with my 06 cummins.

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by siamesed bores?:o:
siamesed means the cylinder are connected against each other as in no coolant circulates between cylinders!

I wonder if the 2008 Dodge 2500/3500 will have an option for the MyGIG Navigation with the built-in 20GB hard drive.

siamesed means the cylinder are connected against each other as in no coolant circulates between cylinders!

Ah. So the block becomes stronger but more difficult to cool effectively?

Ah. So the block becomes stronger but more difficult to cool effectively?

400 Small Block Chev had siamesed cylinders. They maxed out the bore, and to do it they had to eliminate the water jackets between the cylinders. Not a good idea IMHO.

So is this the same in the new 6.7? I guess not wet sleeved then.

Ah. So the block becomes stronger but more difficult to cool effectively?
i guess it depends on who you ask im a dodge cummins guy by no means, and am not defending there engine, im a duramax & all gm man but a lot of people tried to say 400 small block chevrolets overheat, if you run them with everything around them like it should be proper fan shroud,fan size,and somebody hasnt thrown other small block heads without steam holes on it they dont overheat and yes siamese cyl do add strength assuming cyl wall thickness isnt a factor, im sure the new 6.7 will be a good engine butt im sure the new D MAX will smoke it i cant wait to see.

i guess it depends on who you ask im a dodge cummins guy by no means, and am not defending there engine, im a duramax & all gm man but a lot of people tried to say 400 small block chevrolets overheat, if you run them with everything around them like it should be proper fan shroud,fan size,and somebody hasnt thrown other small block heads without steam holes on it they dont overheat and yes siamese cyl do add strength assuming cyl wall thickness isnt a factor, im sure the new 6.7 will be a good engine butt im sure the new D MAX will smoke it i cant wait to see.Ya and the Red Sox are going to pounce on KC on opening day. The Cummins has a good shot at the Duramax, time will tell.

On the topic of siamesed cylinders, doesnt mack use dry liners in their engines? They seem to be pretty tuff trucks.

exactly well have to wait and see!

I'd been maybe gonna buy a new one but after seeing them no thanks. The GMC looks ok, but I wouldn't want to choose between the Dodge or Chevy. I've never been much of a Dodge fan, but that new Chevy with those jap looking side bulges is just plain uuuuugly. And not only are the front bumpers crappy looking but they have those bulbous corners that are PLASTIC....a plastic front bumper? No way. Then that goofy funnel thing on the tailpipe and some squashed places between it and the the muffler. And all that smog crap. The '07 Classic is a much better looking truck and I think the LLY and LBZ engines were the last of the good ones.

I'd been maybe gonna buy a new one but after seeing them no thanks. The GMC looks ok, but I wouldn't want to choose between the Dodge or Chevy. I've never been much of a Dodge fan, but that new Chevy with those jap looking side bulges is just plain uuuuugly. And not only are the front bumpers crappy looking but they have those bulbous corners that are PLASTIC....a plastic front bumper? No way. Then that goofy funnel thing on the tailpipe and some squashed places between it and the the muffler. And all that smog crap. The '07 Classic is a much better looking truck and I think the LLY and LBZ engines were the last of the good ones.
i dont deny the new trucks kinda have to grow on ya but the lmm is for real.

I'd been maybe gonna buy a new one but after seeing them no thanks. The GMC looks ok, but I wouldn't want to choose between the Dodge or Chevy. I've never been much of a Dodge fan, but that new Chevy with those jap looking side bulges is just plain uuuuugly. And not only are the front bumpers crappy looking but they have those bulbous corners that are PLASTIC....a plastic front bumper? No way. Then that goofy funnel thing on the tailpipe and some squashed places between it and the the muffler. And all that smog crap. The '07 Classic is a much better looking truck and I think the LLY and LBZ engines were the last of the good ones.

I'm torn between the two. I think the Dodge is a much better looking truck than the GMC/Chevy. But, the GMC/Chevy have a far nicer interior and a better engine/transmission combo.

I'm waiting for some reviews of side by side tests between the two. I guess they could toss the Ford in, but after all the issues between the recalls, the trouble they're having with the engine manufacturer, and the issues with the DPF (needing to pull over). That's certainly enough to make me stay far far away.


.

Drive a Dodge if you wanna chip your teeth, they have the worst ride comfort, and the truck shakes over bumps. The feel like thy will shake apart, i have to drive a dodge for work and its not fun. People are also talkin about the IFS compared to the SFA, well I know a ton of people that plow with IFS and have never had any problems and they give such a nicer ride. Lets just say at the end of the day I love it when i get to get back into the comfort of my chevy. If you are trying to pick between a dodge or chevy go drive them. If money is a factor then dodge will win everytime with the kind of deals that dodge has cuz they can barely give a truck away right now, they are just doing bad right now.

I've never had a problem with the ride in an03 and up Dodge. Maybe that's because I'm used to my 85 K20. Personally I find the newer fords to ride the worst of any of them. GM of course has the smoothest ride. Myself. I'm willing to sacrifice some ride quality for a little more altitude and I still prefer a SFA.

Drive a Dodge if you wanna chip your teeth, they have the worst ride comfort, and the truck shakes over bumps. The feel like thy will shake apart, i have to drive a dodge for work and its not fun.

my 04 dodge 2500 4x4 rides better than my pops 99 1500 silverado 4x4... i also am floating on 315/70/17 while pop is riding on 265/75/16's..?

No doubt the 6.7 Cummins will be a badddd bitch. With Bully Dogs new programer they are puting out just under 1000 foot pounds on a stock tranny, intake and exhaust. I personally hate dodge trucks just as much as ford. I love Cummins just as much as my Duramaxes, just to bad they couldnt find a truck to put there engines in.

i'll take sfa everyday of the week myself. the dodge trucks do not ride bad at all. do they ride like a chevy-no- that is because chevy has ifs- that simple! if i wanted my truck to ride and act like a car- i'd buy a caddy. personal choice is a great thing!

i dont deny the new trucks kinda have to grow on ya but the lmm is for real.


I'm sure that even with all that smog crap, the LMM engine will prove to be just fine. But the new Chevy HD is so damn stupid looking. My '04 is a great truck and there's no reason to change, but if it came to buying a new one it would be an '07 Classic.....the dealers still have them.

Hands down my choice is the IFS. I had issues with both my SFA Dodges and never a complaint with my IFS trucks. We use our trucks to cross fields and pasture land with lots of drainage ditches and the IFS allows the tires to follow uneven terrain much better which equates to better traction. I see no advantage of a SFA that cost $$$ to keep in repair. IMO the IFS holds up better in the long run and the ride is a given.

I have been looking at Dodge, Ford, GMC, and Chevy trucks for the last couple of years and haven't liked what I have seen. Skyrocketing costs, dependability issues, and undependable customer service (disservice?) all need immediate priority by the big three. I hope the new potential competition will result in better built vehicles that will strengthen the US auto industry. Unfortunately the auto industry has turned most of the truck market into little more than plush passenger vehicles with worthless little cargo boxes, so those of us who prefer to use our trucks as they were once designed have few choices. And with some new truck prices in excess of $50,000 at what point do the sane walk away from this venue unless for a business use that is tax deductable? I have never owned anything but US made truck but 5 years from now, who knows.

I have been looking at Dodge, Ford, GMC, and Chevy trucks for the last couple of years and haven't liked what I have seen. Skyrocketing costs, dependability issues, and undependable customer service (disservice?) all need immediate priority by the big three. I hope the new potential competition will result in better built vehicles that will strengthen the US auto industry. Unfortunately the auto industry has turned most of the truck market into little more than plush passenger vehicles with worthless little cargo boxes, so those of us who prefer to use our trucks as they were once designed have few choices. And with some new truck prices in excess of $50,000 at what point do the sane walk away from this venue unless for a business use that is tax deductable? I have never owned anything but US made truck but 5 years from now, who knows.
im not going to argue with you about price but, about using trucks the way we used to, you gotta be kidding me. believe me i love old veh,s to i have a 69 buick gs a 76 k5 and a 71 k5 but you need to come down to reality most newer vehicles are built far superior to older ones when did you ever hear about a 82 chevy pu with a 454 or something that could actually tow something going 200,000 miles and lasting 10yrs with hardly an issue never! that truck would have had the engine overhauled the body repaired because of rust,all the window motors replaced atleast once not to mention the truck would actually only have 100,000 miles at most because just over that and it would be in the junk yard!

im not going to argue with you about price but, about using trucks the way we used to, you gotta be kidding me. believe me i love old veh,s to i have a 69 buick gs a 76 k5 and a 71 k5 but you need to come down to reality most newer vehicles are built far superior to older ones when did you ever hear about a 82 chevy pu with a 454 or something that could actually tow something going 200,000 miles and lasting 10yrs with hardly an issue never! that truck would have had the engine overhauled the body repaired because of rust,all the window motors replaced atleast once not to mention the truck would actually only have 100,000 miles at most because just over that and it would be in the junk yard!

:exactly: I agree. I love the 73-87 GM trucks, but rust is their worst enemy. Cab corners, rocker panels, box sides, all met their defeat by rust. Even rust checked, they still met their maker, just took a little longer.. As for the new ones, I love fuel injection, take it over a carb any day. Love the duramaxes too, just too expensive for me.

:exactly: I agree. I love the 73-87 GM trucks, but rust is their worst enemy. Cab corners, rocker panels, box sides, all met their defeat by rust. Even rust checked, they still met their maker, just took a little longer.. As for the new ones, I love fuel injection, take it over a carb any day. Love the duramaxes too, just too expensive for me.

All true if you live in the rust-belt. However the body panels are really cheap so fixing them isn't that terrible on the old wallet. Mines been in continuous service since it was new in 85 and it only got it's first rebuild last year. Of course it's a 6.2 which helped the longevity.

how exactly does that work where you can write the cost of these trucks off for tax purposes if you are self employed?

how exactly does that work where you can write the cost of these trucks off for tax purposes if you are self employed?

Registered and bought by the company you own as a capital cost. Then you have it listed as an company vehicle naming you as the principal operator.

;)

Be careful on personal taxes though. It is a writeoff for the company to provide you the vehicle BUT it is classed as a taxable benefit on your income tax

Registered and bought by the company you own as a capital cost. Then you have it listed as an company vehicle naming you as the principal operator.

;)

Be careful on personal taxes though. It is a writeoff for the company to provide you the vehicle BUT it is classed as a taxable benefit on your income tax

sooooooooooo, could i incorporate a company, or form an LLC, and buy a new LMM and write it off? :D

sooooooooooo, could i incorporate a company, or form an LLC, and buy a new LMM and write it off? :D

Yes. The company purchases the truck for you and gets the tax benefit form the purchase cost of the vehicle, In Canada it becomes a depreciable vehicle expense.

Then you have the truck. BUT... the truck will be classified as a taxable benefit to you personally.

IRS/Rev Canada has you by the short and curlies either way.

Looking at it another way.... if you make more $$$ to cover the new vehicle payment, your personal taxes will increase to the point that you would have been better to have the company buy the truck for you.

The best part is this. As a depreciable cost, given a reasonable amount of time, you can but the truck out of the company for a reduced rate.

It will only benefit you only if you actually use the truck for your business, and if it will be partially for personal use, you will have to declare that on your taxes and by rights you should keep a log in case you get audited. If you can prove to the IRS that it is 95% for business use then there will be no tax implications to you personally and the truck will be an expense for the business. You can actually do whatever you want but look out when the IRS comes a knockin'.

In our construction company we write off all of our trucks.

look at it this way, if you own your own company, lets say you owe $40,000 in taxes cuz that was your income after operation expenses, you could buy a $40,000 truck and zero out your business for the year, you gotta spend the $40,000 either way, id rather have a new truck then give it to the government.

look at it this way, if you own your own company, lets say you owe $40,000 in taxes cuz that was your income after operation expenses, you could buy a $40,000 truck and zero out your business for the year, you gotta spend the $40,000 either way, id rather have a new truck then give it to the government.

amen.

look at it this way, if you own your own company, lets say you owe $40,000 in taxes cuz that was your income after operation expenses, you could buy a $40,000 truck and zero out your business for the year, you gotta spend the $40,000 either way, id rather have a new truck then give it to the government.

Careful..lot more to it than that. If you only use it part time for business then keep track of the miles and take the per mile deduction. Myself I depreciate mine anf take the actual expenses, since I am for hire I can not take the per mile(wish I could!!).

Careful..lot more to it than that. If you only use it part time for business then keep track of the miles and take the per mile deduction. Myself I depreciate mine anf take the actual expenses, since I am for hire I can not take the per mile(wish I could!!).

Agreed. That is the proper way to go about it. Granted it is not as 'tax free' as some might like to see, but it satisfies Revenue Canada/IRS.

As a depreciable owned company resource you can wait 2-3 years and then purchase it from the company (at a nice attractive price i might add) and pay what you want for it (within limits of course... 1.00 will not work)

One should consider that in doing it this way, a LEASE makes the least amount of sense. Granted you can write off more of the 'seen' cost of the lease in a business, but to purchase outright at the end of term is the $$$ amount owing on the lease, not what you and the company 'negotiate'.

Of course, a log book is handy to keep, I keep track of my mileage on a monthly basis. Personal use is driving to and from work, silly as it might sound and is on your nickle. Personal Trips are as well. UNLESS you happen to hand out a business card or 2. Of course you can always drive to a 'meeting' out of state. But to make that one stick, you better shack up in a hotel and have meal reciepts to prove.

i run a landscaping company so all i do is drive, i can justify anything a business related wehter it be driving to a job, picking up supplies, advertising, or going to meet a customer. Just driving around is advertising in my book haha, and when you can deduct 40 cents per mile + fuel + all other vehicle repairs it makes it easier to afford one of these trucks, guess thats while every builder and contracter you see has one.

BTW, haulin-rv, how in gods name have you put 231,000 miles on a 1 year old truck? i thought my girlfriend drove alot and she only put 25,000 on her 06 mustang GT in 1 year haha.

BTW, haulin-rv, how in gods name have you put 231,000 miles on a 1 year old truck? i thought my girlfriend drove alot and she only put 25,000 on her 06 mustang GT in 1 year haha.

Never stop, type while you drive, RedBull......you get the idea:D.

good lord, you drive more than a truck driver haha. im guessin you do trailer transport? you make good money doin that?

good lord, you drive more than a truck driver haha. im guessin you do trailer transport? you make good money doin that?


Yes and its ok, beats having a boss looking over your shoulder.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread. I would never buy a Dodge right now. 2 reasons, I had a bad one and they are in seriously poor financial shape. They have $62 billion in sales last year but the current price is $5 Billion. That is really, really bad and of all manufacturers they are hurting the worst and could tank.

Well, Chrysler is on the chopping block with Merc. They are done carrying the dead weight of Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.. and so on. So, you'll see a lot of smaller investor groups picking up a brand here or there. I'm very curious to see whats going to happen.

New member -was surfin' the net and locked onto this thread. I am in the market for a 3/4-1 ton 4X4 srw diesel and have driven a sampling of the big three. The 6.4 ford,6.7 dodge, and the duramax. The Dodge with the engine brake, mega cab, has me drooling. The Ford interior and ride is the best, 6.4 tends to produce a little anxiety(not insurmountable). The duramax,good power,brakes were not impressive, interior not impressive. My interest at this point is mileage. The Dodge and Duromax both cranked about 1700 rpm at 70mph. Will be pulling a trailer 9,000k. Mileage reports???

New member -was surfin' the net and locked onto this thread. I am in the market for a 3/4-1 ton 4X4 srw diesel and have driven a sampling of the big three. The 6.4 ford,6.7 dodge, and the duramax. The Dodge with the engine brake, mega cab, has me drooling. The Ford interior and ride is the best, 6.4 tends to produce a little anxiety(not insurmountable). The duramax,good power,brakes were not impressive, interior not impressive. My interest at this point is mileage. The Dodge and Duromax both cranked about 1700 rpm at 70mph. Will be pulling a trailer 9,000k. Mileage reports???

I have had an 06 Dodge and an now have an 06 Chevy, as far as mileage they are about the same. If you go Dodge make sure its got either the 6 speed auto or the 6 speed manual. The four speed auto stinks. The Duramax seems to have more pulling power and performance than my 06 Dodge did, but again my Dodge was a 4 speed auto and the Allison is a 6 speed and the extra gears make a big difference. As far as Ford, I would stay away for atleast a year, after the crash and burn they had when they launched the 6.0 Powerstroke I would let someone else get the bugs out and see if it proves to be reliable.

I'd go with the GM or Dodge as well...both being Auto 6-speeds. I would look into the EGR or emission junk on anything you buy. If it's for the long haul, see what lasts or is easy to fix. .......keep it simple.

What are you saying Burner):h

What are you saying Burner):h

Simple is as simple does?:D

Ah. So the block becomes stronger but more difficult to cool effectively?
been out of town and we just got back in so I'M about 2 weeks late on a answer. The 6.7 Cummins is a #1/#2 bore siamesed then #3/#4 bore siamesed and #5/#6 bore siamesed like the road tractors. As noted this makes a stronger block and less viberation. The big inline six class 8 tractors don't have cooling probs with the same bore arangement and I doubt the 6.7 will either.
JIM

Sounds like the Dodge is holding it's own on a GM site! What's up with that?

Sounds like the Dodge is holding it's own on a GM site! What's up with that?


Cross dressing?

Heck I was a GM guy at a Dodge site for a while.

Now i am a Dodge guy on a GM site.

Blame it on identity crisis or dyslwe... diselw, oerjiog340915~

The word that means spelling trouble.

Dang, it's like i can't finish anyth....

too bad GM(Isuzu) already has the 2010 DMAX intial design complete, New motor!...with which these new releases from Ford and Dodge barely meet the specs of the current DMAX. Ford and Dodge will continue to work there buts off trying to keep up, always trailing....
The other two won't be able to beat the Allison/Dmax combo now or in the near future...

too bad GM(Isuzu) already has the 2010 DMAX intial design complete, New motor!...with which these new releases from Ford and Dodge barely meet the specs of the current DMAX. Ford and Dodge will continue to work there buts off trying to keep up, always trailing....
The other two won't be able to beat the Allison/Dmax combo now or in the near future...

It would be even better if they released it now!! :D:p:

lmm and allison what a combo about as good as pbj but probobly wont last as long. rather have a good ol 12 valve with a manual the way trucks were meant to be.. in my opinion a chevy is just a pretty boy truck with a jap motor....... just my 2 cents

lmm and allison what a combo about as good as pbj but probobly wont last as long. rather have a good ol 12 valve with a manual the way trucks were meant to be.. in my opinion a chevy is just a pretty boy truck with a jap motor....... just my 2 cents

unlike the dodge with the japanese auto. :)

unlike the dodge with the japanese auto. :)


Let's not even go to WHERE the Dodge trucks are built.

I'll give you a hint though: Pass me another Taco Jose and another Cervesa.:rolleyes:

Let's not even go to WHERE the Dodge trucks are built.

I'll give you a hint though: Pass me another Taco Jose and another Cervesa. :rolleyes:

:rotflmao:

lmm and allison what a combo about as good as pbj but probobly wont last as long. rather have a good ol 12 valve with a manual the way trucks were meant to be.. in my opinion a chevy is just a pretty boy truck with a jap motor....... just my 2 cents

My oh My, looks like someone woke up after a twenty year nap and woke up on the wrong side of the rock too, nothing like being twenty years behind the times stuck in a tar pit!!

yeah why in the world would you want a dodge? so the whole damn truck can fall apart while all you might have left is a cigar lighter and a cummins. what good is that? :D

to each his own! actually we can fight about who makes what for the big 3 but all know a majority of it comes from. Dodge has really made a nice package for 06 and 07 i drove several with the 5.9 and 6.7, the LMM is like a car from ride to interior i don't really care to much for it yet. which is better? I would probably go dodge at this point to date

The Dodge is a POS !! Only part worth your money is the engine.
It has the UGLIEST looking interior I have seen (IT's CRAPTASTIC !!), plus it rides like a lumberwaggon & makes a Ford smooth.

I your a criticising GM for making a truck that rides great, gets good mileage, and pulls like a peterbilt I'm going to have to kick your last leg out from under you.

Go buy a Dodge and we'll see you when you come back to the total package in a few years, until then you can enjoy your craptastic Dodge as it disappears in my rear view.

The Dodge is a POS !! Only part worth your money is the engine.
It has the UGLIEST looking interior I have seen (IT's CRAPTASTIC !!), plus it rides like a lumberwaggon & makes a Ford smooth.

I your a criticising GM for making a truck that rides great, gets good mileage, and pulls like a peterbilt I'm going to have to kick your last leg out from under you.

Go buy a Dodge and we'll see you when you come back to the total package in a few years, until then you can enjoy your craptastic Dodge as it disappears in my rear view.
When hell freezes over will a duramax V-8 pull like a Cummins or Catterpillar powered peterbilt

You know I understand that this is a chevy site, but come on guys, The Dodge is a lot better of a truck than alot of people think it is, if it wern't for the older transmissions they wouldnt have the rep they have now. I wont say anything about the 68rfe, its still too new. I mean I hope no body here honestly thinks that the Chevy/GMC is a 10 out of 10, because thats physically impossible. I dont really find the interiors ugly, if you want ugly look at the pre 07.5 GM interiors, talk about bland! I will agree that they do ride a little rougher, but not like a "lumberwaggon" , remember its a SFA, something I would strongly perfer over a IFS, maybe not on a 1/2 ton but definetly on anything 3/4 and above. Pulls like a Peterbilt...um dont alot of petes run Cummins engines... The Durmax is a good motor, to me i see it as more of a hotrod diesel, where as I look at the cummins motor as more of a workhorse. and the mileage part, I see from time to time people complaing about D-maxes getting bad MPG posted on this site, so that seems biased. I know people with Dodges that get good MPG. My family is on its third dodge, we've had a 98, 01, and now a 04. Never any tranny problems, no rattly interiors, they were all dependable reliable trucks.

I"m looking to buy a new truck in the next couple of months.

I own a Dodge from back in the day when Chevy's diesel was a real abortion. Yep a 97 12 valve with 5 spd. not alot of miles on it just shy of 300k. It's been a great truck and I'm not going to sell it just get another.

Would I buy another Dodge Hell yes but they don't build what I want
so I'm looking to GM.

I went on the chevy site to build a truck and I couldn't pull up a k3500 srw crew cab. Do they no longer make that?

I need a full four door with 8' bed and would like a 3500. If not then a 2500 will have to do.

Good luck

how many tractors that you know of have v8 configureations and aluminium heads?

The Dodge is a POS !! Only part worth your money is the engine.
It has the UGLIEST looking interior I have seen (IT's CRAPTASTIC !!), plus it rides like a lumberwaggon & makes a Ford smooth.

I your a criticising GM for making a truck that rides great, gets good mileage, and pulls like a peterbilt I'm going to have to kick your last leg out from under you.

Go buy a Dodge and we'll see you when you come back to the total package in a few years, until then you can enjoy your craptastic Dodge as it disappears in my rear view.
i cant count the number of dmaxs i put in my rear view but i usually cant see them due to the smoke!

You know I understand that this is a chevy site, but come on guys, The Dodge is a lot better of a truck than alot of people think it is, if it wern't for the older transmissions they wouldnt have the rep they have now. I wont say anything about the 68rfe, its still too new. I mean I hope no body here honestly thinks that the Chevy/GMC is a 10 out of 10, because thats physically impossible. I dont really find the interiors ugly, if you want ugly look at the pre 07.5 GM interiors, talk about bland! I will agree that they do ride a little rougher, but not like a "lumberwaggon" , remember its a SFA, something I would strongly perfer over a IFS, maybe not on a 1/2 ton but definetly on anything 3/4 and above. Pulls like a Peterbilt...um dont alot of petes run Cummins engines... The Durmax is a good motor, to me i see it as more of a hotrod diesel, where as I look at the cummins motor as more of a workhorse. and the mileage part, I see from time to time people complaing about D-maxes getting bad MPG posted on this site, so that seems biased. I know people with Dodges that get good MPG. My family is on its third dodge, we've had a 98, 01, and now a 04. Never any tranny problems, no rattly interiors, they were all dependable reliable trucks.

100% agree with you. But everytime I said What you just said, I got bashed for saying because I own a dodge.
Both Trucks are GREAT trucks

And to those that say it rides to rough You don't know what your talking about they ride just like a 3/4 ton truck should.
Stop whining about my truck is better then yours. you sound like a bunch of girls fighting over a barbie

I mean I hope no body here honestly thinks that the Chevy/GMC is a 10 out of 10, because thats physically impossible. I dont really find the interiors ugly, if you want ugly look at the pre 07.5 GM interiors, talk about bland! I will agree that they do ride a little rougher, but not like a "lumberwaggon" , remember its a SFA, something I would strongly perfer over a IFS, maybe not on a 1/2 ton but definetly on anything 3/4 and above.

So , what your saying is nobody can be 100% satisfied in there purchase of their GM (because i am)? Interior's are a personal taste thing, you buy what you like.
and havn't we beat the SFA vs. IFS thing to death?:rolleyes: come on they've proven to last a long while, with for the most part a better ride.

100% agree with you. But everytime I said What you just said, I got bashed for saying because I own a dodge.
Both Trucks are GREAT trucks

And to those that say it rides to rough You don't know what your talking about they ride just like a 3/4 ton truck should.
Stop whining about my truck is better then yours. you sound like a bunch of girls fighting over a barbie

1.I did not know that the "ride police" were out there enforcing the ride quality 3/4 tons,oh no! I hope mines riding like it "should", I'd better go check!:rolleyes: :p:

2.You are totally right with the barbie thing, c'mon guys we're better than this!!:mad: :D

Im not saying that you shouldnt be 100% percent satisfied with your trucks, I meant to say they all have their shortcommings. I do think you should buy what you like, and if you dont like what someone else may choose to buy, who cares, its their opinion. The funny thing is, if they want to bash me for saying that about the dodges, guess what, I do drive a Chevy! One thing as far as ride goes, I've driven a 05 D-max and driven an 04, i think Dodge/Cummins and let me tell you, that dodge felt more like a truck than that Chevy did.

Im not saying that you shouldnt be 100% percent satisfied with your trucks, I meant to say they all have their shortcommings. I do think you should buy what you like, and if you dont like what someone else may choose to buy, who cares, its their opinion. The funny thing is, if they want to bash me for saying that about the dodges, guess what, I do drive a Chevy! One thing as far as ride goes, I've driven a 05 D-max and driven an 04, i think Dodge/Cummins and let me tell you, that dodge felt more like a truck than that Chevy did.I bought an 01 Cummins and from what I seen and compaired with it to my Chevys, I will never own another Dodge! If you have a lot of time on your hands, buy a Dodge because you can put that extra time to good use fixing the damn thing.

What's with all the brand bashing? We should just be comparing the merits of each of the trucks. Personally I would probably buy the dodge when it's time for a new truck. Not because it's better but because it better suits the way I'll use the truck. I prefer a stickshift, a SFA, and a higher stance. None of which is available stock with a GM, and I don't think a $10000 SFA conversion right after buying a new truck is cost effective.

Hey - I'm a GM guy on a GM site defending a GM truck. Go Figure. If you all want to hold hands an sing kumba ya and say that all trucks are great then head over to the "All trucks are equal" site and have away.

As for the merits of each truck I've driven a 08 Super Duty and a 6.7 CTD & a LMM in the past week and pulled my 10k boat/trailer and neither had the power of the LMM or the fuel economy. The SD got 8.9 in a 30 mile test loop, the 6.7 CTD got 11.2 and the LMM got 12.9 all on the same loop with the same boat. All trucks had under 300-600 miles on the odo.

My buddy with a 01 CTD came along for the rides. His truck was getting new front end put into it so he was not working (guess the IFS is not perfect) and is now in the market for an LMM.

how do u test the fuel economy on a 30 mile ride let me guess you looked at the lie o meter . so you pulled a trailer on a test drive with than less than 600 miles on the dodge and ford ? Wow your a heck of a guy didnt even give a respectfull buyer a chance to break in his or her truck. you must be a real heck of a guy ???? who cares if you screw the next guy as long as your happy ......

The only brand i will dash is the power choke. Dodges are nice love the interior on them. Ride quailty in my opionan. My boss man 06 lbz rides like crap compared to my lly. Lbz seem like they have stiffer suspision rather then my truck But dodge or chevy U cant go wrong

I have had 2 D/A's and both ended up costing me, out of warranty before 60,000 miles(Power steering pump, Left front axle, steering shaft). My 03 has the famous injectors replaced at 60,000 and sure its nice to have a 200,000 warranty, but at $3000 to replace them, no doubt I will let it go before the warranty runs out. And it still needs Cognito, pitman arms, at 85,000?

So while I still like the D/A, I feel I really didn't get the benefit from long term ownership of a diesel, and next time around, the Cummins with the 6spd auto, sure looks hard to beat, especially the Megacab. I think GM has come a long way with the D/A, and the newer ones probably will last longer, but the nickle and dime stuff on the rest of the truck really is a bummer on a $45,000 truck. I always envy those folks who go 150,000 miles, only filters, and fluids, to bad this hasn't been my experience.

*Looks into the future* I still see this thread going with no end....

The Dodge is a POS !! Only part worth your money is the engine.
It has the UGLIEST looking interior I have seen (IT's CRAPTASTIC !!), plus it rides like a lumberwaggon & makes a Ford smooth.

I your a criticising GM for making a truck that rides great, gets good mileage, and pulls like a peterbilt I'm going to have to kick your last leg out from under you.

Go buy a Dodge and we'll see you when you come back to the total package in a few years, until then you can enjoy your craptastic Dodge as it disappears in my rear view.

Humm I just tied my duramax (with over 500 HP) to my pete with a 425 cat, and got dragged across the parking lot. What am I doing wrong??

Im a 2007.5 dodge owner looking to add a chevy 2007.5 Gm duramax to my family had a few people with some good honest answers on what to look for but i will say this there are some real IGNORANT people on this forum ..... but for the most part there are some good people on here, but what chaps my ass is people on these forums that have a friend or some one they know that has had some super unbelievable story on why there dodge, ford or chevy has had some kind warranty issue that makes every other brand a peice of **** . These trucks are all on the same playing field if you want to admit it or not. But what really makes me mad are the IGNORANT people who want to test drive a truck and tow a trailer or add a chip to see what it will do . That is wrong and chicken **** . But on a lighter note Im gonna go look at a chevy this week and im excited to see what GM has to offer Ive heard alot of good things and I know i will find something that fits our needs .

but what chaps my ass is people on these forums that have a friend or some one they know that has had some super unbelievable story on why there dodge, ford or chevy has had some kind warranty issue that makes every other brand a peice of **** . These trucks are all on the same playing field if you want to admit it or not .

You will find people like this on ANY forum in the world, it doesnt matter what brand the forum is biased towards.

DURAtotheMAX i know I just had to vent LOL im all better now ......

too bad GM(Isuzu) already has the 2010 DMAX intial design complete, New motor!...with which these new releases from Ford and Dodge barely meet the specs of the current DMAX. Ford and Dodge will continue to work there buts off trying to keep up, always trailing....
The other two won't be able to beat the Allison/Dmax combo now or in the near future...

LOL....too bad the 6.7 is already 2010 compliant, and can be tweaked when need be, come 2010 the d-max will be the new kid on the block...again!!

LOL....too bad the 6.7 is already 2010 compliant, and can be tweaked when need be, come 2010 the d-max will be the new kid on the block...again!!

Yeah thats why I need to stock up on LLY & LBZ engines :D

Yeah thats why I need to stock up on LLY & LBZ engines :D

I hear ya, was gonna wait till '07 for a new truck, then i found out what the EPA had in store, and that us canadians were gonna be stuck with it as well!

Back to the Series 60 for a second--I always found it strange that GM didn't put their own Detroits in pickups, a Series 50 or something smaller they have. What would have been wrong with that? Detroit is their in house engine after all.

Or used to be anyway.

DDC has not been a GM product for years. Penske bought in to the Detroit/Allison gig in 1988. Daimler/Chrysler has been the boss since 2000. Daimler/Chrysler is also the owner of Freightliner since 1998. The older GM's were produced by DDC.

So is this the same in the new 6.7? I guess not wet sleeved then.

I can't think of any diesel 7 liter or below that is not parent bore block that I have worked on.

1.I did not know that the "ride police" were out there enforcing the ride quality 3/4 tons,oh no! I hope mines riding like it "should", I'd better go check!:rolleyes: :p:

2.You are totally right with the barbie thing, c'mon guys we're better than this!!:mad: :D


1. I was speaking about What I look for in a truck smart ass

2. Hey thats your problem if you want to own a girl truck with a nice soft ride for your candy ass.

I came on here stating what I liked about my Dodge while most of you were bashing them because one of your buddies dads sister's tranny broke so that make all dodge junk right. :rolleyes:
but all you GM nuts seem to forget all the trouble GM had with their earlier diesel engines:eek: So does that make all Gm cars and trucks junk?????

If it makes your life easier to think you own the best truck ever, then go on about your sorry life. But as stated before GM,FORD and DODGE make good diesel trucks.

1. I was speaking about What I look for in a truck smart ass

2. Hey thats your problem if you want to own a girl truck with a nice soft ride for your candy ass.

I came on here stating what I liked about my Dodge while most of you were bashing them because one of your buddies dads sister's tranny broke so that make all dodge junk right. :rolleyes:
but all you GM nuts seem to forget all the trouble GM had with their earlier diesel engines:eek: So does that make all Gm cars and trucks junk?????

If it makes your life easier to think you own the best truck ever, then go on about your sorry life. But as stated before GM,FORD and DODGE make good diesel trucks.




Hey slow down there tuff nuts, all automakers build a pile of crap now and then, I'm not a Dodge basher, so don't stick me with that crowd! I think they're a pretty good truck, you stated: "And to those that say it rides to rough You don't know what your talking about they ride just like a 3/4 ton truck should". I think a lot of people know what they are talking about around here, just gotta roll with the punches, relax it's not like we're geting paid to own these trucks, to each their own I guess, I'll take the girl truck tho:o: .............:think: :saluteusa: .