It's ALIVE!! My LLY powered 2003 "X LB7" truck is on the road!:D

It's only got about 10 miles on it so far, but all went well. We did have a little trouble with the anti theft. Getting the ECM, TCM, and BCM to all get along was a 30 minute relearn procedure and so far all is GOOD!!

We'll put the finishing touches on tomorrow and I'll try to log another 50 miles or so this weekend. Hopefully there will be no codes, and NO more LB7 injector issues!

We used a complete LLY engine, the harness from the LLY truck from the under hood fuse panel out, the LLY NSBU switch, one CAC tubes off the LLY and one off an LBZ, the 03 TCM, tranny, and CAC.

All in all not a bad swap!;) This SHOULD also open the door to putting a complete LBZ long block in too!! Thanks to all that helped!

Congrats!Keep us updated too.

I get to drive my truck again when i get home!!!!!!!!!

:thumb: Congratulations, Rick! Hmmm, what if it turns out you created the only LLY in the world that won't... never mind!

And congratulations on finding the reluctor / crank pin issue on the '04! It sounds like it's only a matter of time before 'Ol Red is happilly clattering!

:)

Wish I could have been more help when you called Rick. I'm very glad it is working for you.

Thanks John! JK was out, and called back later (Thanks), but I got the info from the dealer. The main issue was bad batteries, then the anti theft.

:thumb: Congratulations, Rick! Hmmm, what if it turns out you created the only LLY in the world that won't... never mind!

And congratulations on finding the reluctor / crank pin issue on the '04! It sounds like it's only a matter of time before 'Ol Red is happilly clattering!

:)
Ol' red is goin. Having trouble keeping turbo tube boots on though.:mad:

Hair Spray

I told you it would work, great job Rick :D :D :D

Clean the mating surfaces of the tubes and couplers with lacquer thinner or Acetone prior to assembly. Any oil and they will pop off at he most inconvenient time. Make sure the ridges engage each other.

:grd:

Hey rick did you use the lb7 rad. this could be intresting???? Lets see how HOT you can get it...

:ro) :ro) :cool2: :grd: :ro) :ro)

Hey rick did you use the lb7 rad. this could be intresting???? Lets see how HOT you can get it...
Everything is lb7 except motor, wire harness, and turbo tubes.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but I can fix the well known LLY problem a whole lot easier and cheaper than a new set of injectors for the LB7.

Good point. Why the LLY? closet to the LB7?

The LLY is cheaper to buy than the LBZ and it makes all 4 of my trucks very, very close to the same. Only need to have one spare turbo, one spare ECM, one spare CP3, one spare motor, etc.;)

The LLY is cheaper to buy than the LBZ and it makes all 4 of my trucks very, very close to the same. Only need to have one spare turbo, one spare ECM, one spare CP3, one spare motor, etc.;)


Thats just being an efficient company. Saves money on parts. Good call.

The LLY is cheaper to buy than the LBZ and it makes all 4 of my trucks very, very close to the same. Only need to have one spare turbo, one spare ECM, one spare CP3, one spare motor, etc.;)

A TX Christopher fix is all you need if it overheats, right??

I already have one, I just wonder if I'll get a volume discount when I buy the next three?):h

...Getting the ECM, TCM, and BCM to all get along was a 30 minute relearn procedure and so far all is GOOD!!

We used a complete LLY engine, the harness from the LLY truck from the under hood fuse panel out, the LLY NSBU switch, one CAC tubes off the LLY and one off an LBZ, the 03 TCM, tranny, and CAC.

Hi Rick:

That's amazing that all the truck's electronics are talking together! Is it plug & play, or does it require secwet sqwirrel stuff? :cool:

Couple of questions:

1. What's a BCM? :think:

2. The complete LLY engine includes the LLY ECM and FICM, correct?

3. What's different in the programming in the 03 and 04 TCMs?

Again, congratulations. :Handshake "X LB7?" How about "LL7", kinda like "Double O Seven..."

:)

I already have one, I just wonder if I'll get a volume discount when I buy the next three?):h

You should have hit him up the day he got his little check from the General. :)

Hi Rick:

That's amazing that all the truck's electronics are talking together! Is it plug & play, or does it require secwet sqwirrel stuff? :cool:

Nothing secret, unless they didn't tell me.:eek: ):h

The only real issue was getting the modules "remarried". It is a 30+ minute long key cycle scenario after the anti theft kicks in as default.

Couple of questions:

1. What's a BCM? :think:

Body Control Module. IIRC it controls the 4x4, air conditioning, etc.

2. The complete LLY engine includes the LLY ECM and FICM, correct?

Yes, and the turbo, harness, and injectors, etc.

3. What's different in the programming in the 03 and 04 TCMs?

I'm not sure. Hopefully Mike L. will give the sheep a break and explain this one for you.

Again, congratulations. :Handshake "X LB7?" How about "LL7", kinda like "Double O Seven..."

:)
I like the LL7!:D

50 miles so far. No codes and it runs like new!:)

How much $$ you got into the swap, I know it was your labor $$'s. Glad to see it can be done. I have my eye on a 8k LBZ motor and trans, might be a cool swap for my 01

He got lucky on labor cost since I did most of it.:D

How much $$ you got into the swap, I know it was your labor $$'s. Glad to see it can be done. I have my eye on a 8k LBZ motor and trans, might be a cool swap for my 01
Not sure if it will compare to the LBZ. You may need to do the LLY injectors, turbo, ecm, harness, etc., on the LBZ to make it work.

All told I have around $4000 in the complete swap, including what I paid my help. That's oil, filters, new dexcool, engine, etc., and I hope to offset close to 1/2 of that selling parts off the old LB7.

The lbz package is complete, all wire and computers. Truck got hit from the rear HARD, t case is broke, trans looks fine. Truck was RC LS, was over 22k to fix so he bought it from the ins co for under 5k, they bought him a new truck @ 28 something less the 5k. He's still debating about what he wants to do, talking about a mud truck. I'm in no rush

The lbz package is complete, all wire and computers. Truck got hit from the rear HARD, t case is broke, trans looks fine. Truck was RC LS, was over 22k to fix so he bought it from the ins co for under 5k, they bought him a new truck @ 28 something less the 5k. He's still debating about what he wants to do, talking about a mud truck. I'm in no rush

I'd do a harness & tranny swap then. You'll most likely have to change the complete harness. It'll be a lot more work then my swap, but will get you the full LBZ power and the 6 speed.

I think this will be a good project for my 2002:rolleyes:

what kind of wiring did you have to do? basicly plug and play? my friend has a 03 and we were thinking about this

We used the LLY harness from the underhood fuse box "out". That also required the NSBU switch had to be replaced. It was that simple.:)

OK, Houston we have a problem!!):h

It appears that the truck now "makes" fuel.):h

Actually, what we found is that the fuel gauge is now the exact opposite of what it should be. We are installing a LLY cluster today to see if that fixes it.

Just siphon the tank!

The LLY cluster is not the fix.:( I would guess that the BCM and the ECM are having a little trouble talking to each other. Anyone know if EFI live would fix this?

You got a truck that makes fuel and you want it fixed?:crazy:

Just swap the E and the F on the gauge...

:funnypost

The LLY cluster is not the fix.:( I would guess that the BCM and the ECM are having a little trouble talking to each other. Anyone know if EFI live would fix this?

If it's just going from E to F then you may be able to reverse the Fuel guage table with EFILive to correct this. I think that's the only thing EFILive could do for you with this problem. There may be more to it than that.

Just swap the E and the F on the gauge...

What he said. Still keep us posted rick

rick, any updates? did you get the fuel gauge fixed? wil

OK, Houston we have a problem!!):h

It appears that the truck now "makes" fuel.):h

Actually, what we found is that the fuel gauge is now the exact opposite of what it should be. We are installing a LLY cluster today to see if that fixes it.


Easy fix (possibly). Go to the fuel tank sending unit and change the polarity of the wires leading to it.

No we haven't fixed the gauge yet. I'm told EFI Live can do it.

I don't think switching the wires on the sender will though. I think the sender is a simple rheostat. It will have the same amount of resistance no matter which wires are where.

We're over 1000 miles on it now and we've found another quirk of the swap. On the cruise control towing on a small hill the tranny will shift down and up repeatedly. Take it off the cruise and it's fine. Any idea's??

Loose wire?

Tranny calibration. Probably still an LB7 cal.

I take that back. Maybe something not meshing right. I assume the ecm and the criuse control are of different years? If so maybe the programming dosn't match up.

I have an LLY TCM, but I think there's a difference there also.

Anyway to check using EFI Live?

Rick, with the fuel gauge issue, just get a 2003/4 LB7 tune with the same size tank as yours, the copy the primary level sensor table {F0101} into the LLY tune. You will see the LLY table is the inverse of the LB7. If you copy it from a 2003/4 the table sizes are the same too.

Cheers,
Ross

Rick, with the fuel gauge issue, just get a 2003/4 LB7 tune with the same size tank as yours, the copy the primary level sensor table {F0101} into the LLY tune. You will see the LLY table is the inverse of the LB7. If you copy it from a 2003/4 the table sizes are the same too.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross. John Kennedy has already offered to help me do that. Fingers and others have offered their help more times then I can count also.;)

I'm not much with your software yet, but I'm still playing.):h

Tranny calibration. Probably still an LB7 cal.


but how different really are LB7 and LLY calibrations??

Ive run tons of TCM's, been running a 2003 TCM for months and havent noticed any oddities :confused:

No we haven't fixed the gauge yet. I'm told EFI Live can do it.

I don't think switching the wires on the sender will though. I think the sender is a simple rheostat. It will have the same amount of resistance no matter which wires are where.

We're over 1000 miles on it now and we've found another quirk of the swap. On the cruise control towing on a small hill the tranny will shift down and up repeatedly. Take it off the cruise and it's fine. Any idea's??

Hey Rick,

I realize you are extremely busy, but was wondering once you get this all figured out and running issue free, would ( in your spare time.... ) you compile the directions, steps of this swap on a .pdf ( like Fingers did with the stick. ) for anyone who may want to attempt this in the future?

I'll attempt to do a DIY thread, but so far other than these two issues, its been very straight forward.

Maybe a guy can break it down a little. Where in the programing of the truck does it decide that it needs to shift down. Seems to me that the truck is getting a signal and thinks it needs to shift and then when it does it realizes that it can handle it. There must be something that is based on load, throttle position and other variables. Maybe someone that knows can chime in.

Maybe a guy can break it down a little. Where in the programing of the truck does it decide that it needs to shift down. Seems to me that the truck is getting a signal and thinks it needs to shift and then when it does it realizes that it can handle it. There must be something that is based on load, throttle position and other variables. Maybe someone that knows can chime in.


shifting is "basically" all in the TCM.

the TCM doesnt care whether its talking to an LB7 or LLY. If it shifts, its because IT wanted to based on the data its READING from the ECM. As far as I know the ECM cant do anything to 'make' it shift. I have run almost every dmax TCM calibration (obviously not the 06+ 4th gen) and none of them did anything exceedingly odd like that.

something else is causing the problem IMHO. Maybe even simply reset the taps and do a fast-learn? Does it do it in cruise with tow/haul off and on? The shift stabilization algorithm in the tcm should correct this....which is why I think there is something else that is maing the TCM think it needs to shift :confused:

Nodmax has very quick downshifts while towing before the motor ever loads with an 01 TCM cal. He is changing it back to the 05 cal ASAP to see if that helps. I've heard of this before. I know a lot of LB7 owners that switched to the LLY raved that the truck seemed to hold a gear longer while towing. I hope it is all a TCM fix to cure the problem.

Shifts based on TPS position IIRC. Are the TPSs different?

So can I simply put a later model TCM in and see if that helps?

Shifts based on TPS position IIRC. Are the TPSs different?


TPS's should be the same but I dont think that would make a difference because TPS/APP is reported to the TCM thru the data bus, and its reported as a position %, not the actual measured voltage from the pedal.

I wouldn't think the tps has much to do with it because in theory if you locked it out of 5th and ran it up to a certain point on the rpm, as soon as it got there it would want to shift. The same would go if you were lugging the motor and barely got into it say at 55 and gave it a little throttle it would shift right away. It makes sense that there must be something else going on or the tcm is causing the problem. If the tcm was from a duramax already I wouldn't think it would make much of a difference. Just thinking out loud. I had a 99 3/4 ton sub that was causing me troubles with the shifting. It would not hold tcc lock. After I went in and the dealership told me my trans was bad, i bought the obd2 program and used that to figure out that it was a program that was in the computer. I made them reflash the computer because I had bought it from them and I didn't want the aftermarket program that was in it. After the flash it worked like a charm except for the fact the old 454 didn't have any power compared to the lb7.

So can I simply put a later model TCM in and see if that helps?

I would sure give it a try or have someone with efi live who can fix your fuel guage problem reflash the tcm with a new program. You should be able to try some different ones then.

OK, the new/old fuel sender settings are loaded. I also upgraded to the newest OS for the ECM. We'll make a trip to make sure all is good before we work with the TCM.:)

So, this would not be possible with a 06 LLY ( LBZ )? Correct? Just 04.5 - 05 LLY? And did you also do a TXCHRIS cooling mod? Or is that only if required?

Don't know on the LBZ. I've heard a cople of people are going to try. And yes, I expect to mod the cooling system.;)

OK, the new/old fuel sender settings are loaded. I also upgraded to the newest OS for the ECM. We'll make a trip to make sure all is good before we work with the TCM.:)

Wow...I missed this one! Any updates on the shifting issue?? For the record, the ECM is what would give the TCM it's signals as to what parameters it need to set shift points. It would be looking at both TP and RPM, and maybe boost. I would wonder if the turbo being different could have an effect in the tables??

Nothing yet. My son just doesn't run the cruise when loaded heavy. We've put a ton of miles on it and everything else works great.:thumb:

Did you end up doing the V2?

Of course.;)

On the cruise control towing on a small hill the tranny will shift down and up repeatedly. Take it off the cruise and it's fine. Any idea's??

Could it also be the BCM (i think controls the cruise feature) and or the TCM trying to block learn the new setup......use the cruise more!!

ECM controls cruise....its a function of the PTO feature. BCM has nothing to do with it. The wires from the cruise buttons go straight to the ECM.

Try reflashing the ECM to the latest operating system. Then reflash the TCM to a 2003 TCM OS. Even if its already a 2003 OS, full flash-reflash it anywy. Dont use an LLY TCM OS; it will be looking for the G solenoid in a transmission that doesnt have it.

Otherwise Im not sure what the problem could be...check the VSS wires?

My 05 ECM OS works fine with my 02 TCM OS. Now I just go to figure out what I need to change, to my an 05 LLY work in in a 02 truck.

LLY into an 01-02 truck will be difficult Steven. Not saying its impossible, its just that you will need all the associated wiring from the 03+ doner truck to make an LLY work. The only "easy" LLY conversion is into an 03 or early 04 LB7 truck. Reason being all the wiring is different in 01-02 trucks, as well as instrument clusters, etc. etc...

Ben

LLY into an 01-02 truck will be difficult Steven. Not saying its impossible, its just that you will need all the associated wiring from the 03+ doner truck to make an LLY work. The only "easy" LLY conversion is into an 03 or early 04 LB7 truck. Reason being all the wiring is different in 01-02 trucks, as well as instrument clusters, etc. etc...

Ben

To LLY an 02 why not just use the LLY heads and injector lines and jury-rig the injector harness and nothing else from the LLY.
I would not want the EGR or the turbo anyway.
By using the 02 ECM would it not simplify the switch.
My thought process is that the only thing any good about an LLY is the heads anyway, that way one has the good injectors and don't have to worry about the overheating issues.
Because I believe this to be relatively simple I am sure someone will step in here that knows and blow this idea away.
Merle

To LLY an 02 why not just use the LLY heads and injector lines and jury-rig the injector harness and nothing else from the LLY.
I would not want the EGR or the turbo anyway.
By using the 02 ECM would it not simplify the switch.
My thought process is that the only thing any good about an LLY is the heads anyway, that way one has the good injectors and don't have to worry about the overheating issues.
Because I believe this to be relatively simple I am sure someone will step in here that knows and blow this idea away.
Merle

Because an LB7 ECM will not work with an LLY FICM. ;)

Fuel rails are completely different, etc...

The LB7 and LLY shortblocks are identical AFAIK.

And the injectors are a different voltage, IIRC.

One of the good things is that the 02 truck has no power window, AC, power locks, stereo,air bags,it will also have a fuel cell, etc. So there not much wireing left. I plan to upgrade the cluster, so as long as not too many of the connectors have changed it shouldn't be too bad.

I could use autometer gauges of trans temp, oil pressure, voltage, engine temp, boost, egt, fuel pressure, Tach and GPS for speed.

Dam