I've seen these advertised several places, and since I'm looking to replace my worn out timing chain, I'm considering going to the gear setup instead. What I'm wondering is if anyone here has done this upgrade, how long it took them, how much it cost them, and how much noise it makes.

www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10031&PN=1 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10031&PN=1)


There's another thread but I havn't found it. No personal experience with them but I wonder about the added harmonics on a harmonic sensative engine.

The DSG gear set works - period.


About same price as new chain and both sprockets from GM.


Check Kennedy Diesel and DSG of Canada for prices, and delivery.


Try it - you'll like it........

I'll give you my gear drive upgrade story on my 94 6.5 Blazer.


I purchased my set in 98 or so from a Canadian company. I can't remember which one at the moment. Price was about 350.00 for the Phazer drive. I also bought the cooling upgrade, which included a hiflow water pump and a dual thermostat housing.


The actual installation of the gear set was pretty straightforward. Make sure you have the 200+ torque wrench to torque the damper to the crankshaft. Completely removing the radiator will also help out a lot.


As far as I can recall, the most difficult part of the installation was the alignment of the gears. Mine didn't exactly line up, and the timing marks were 180 off. I thought about it for a minute or two and made the correction and checked my work with a steel straight edge. I also recall the bottom bolts that thread through the oil pan were a PITA. Some bolts require sealant, so make sure you have the necessary products on hand to save yourself a trip.


I bolted it all bact together and took it to the dealer. They set the timing to -1.94 and sent me on my way. The tech will tell you that he has never seen the timing so steady on his scanner.


I really liked the change it made to my vehicle. The poor throttle response, which was a huge issue with the early trucks, was drastically reduced (note: a dealer ecu upgrade also helped a lot, which was in place prior to the upgrade). The response was crisp and fast. The engine became a lot smoother throughout the rpm range, but especially in the upper rpm range where the stock engine seemed to struggle. Mileage improved a bit, but no hard numbers to share.


Overall, I feel it is a great mod, especially as a foundation to do other things (e.g., boost, fuel, exhaust). I will do it again to my 99 when I get the time.

DSG's set is about as pricey as anybody's but man it sure looks like it would work a lot better than a chain. So how about the noise? are they as loud as I've heard tale of?

I forgot to add - I couldn't hear the drive except when the oil fill cap was off and my ear was about an inch or so from the opening, which wasn't too often.


Seriously, I thought the drive was very quiet.

Sweet...so how long start to finish did it all end up taking you?

It took me the weekend because I wanted to do a meticulous job (and a few stops to the auto parts store for sealant, 200+ torque wrench, misc gaskets, etc... didn't help shorten the duration anyhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif). Others have posted that it took them a few hours.

A certian snake-oil salesman claims that the gears will break a crank due to (and I quote) "Losing the cusioning affects of the chain"


Can anyone explain how a steel link chain with steel pins driving steel sprockets can 'cushion' ANYTHING (unless the chain stretches)? And dont mention Harmonics. I dont see thousands of cars with broke transmission shafts because of 'harmonics' in the gears. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif About the only 'hamonic' that I could see breaking a crank is a loose chain vibrating between the sprockets and causing radial load spikes.


Tim

The chain streaches all right and if you've ever jumped time in a gasser, you've seen it streach too much.


So, harmonics vs. chainstreach then. which one's it going to be?

I'm around chain drives between gear sets all day long and have been for years, although they're bigger there is no doubt that the chains stretch under loads and come back when powering down, some of these chains are triple rollers up to 2" wide. Don't know if this helps you make up your mind but to me you wouldn't get that kinda slap with the gears.... But does the engine need that cusion? I would probably say it does unless your also installing the stud girdle kit to distribute the stress more evenly? Just an opinion for whats its worth.

I can't speak to the install, as mine came with a reman long block. I can say that I cannot notice any difference in noise level with the gears installed.

its the job of the harmonic balancer to cushion, not the timing chain.

I went to order the gear set from DSG out of Canada and they said they would give discounts to TDP members and plus a discount for ordering off the internet. Well the jerks would not honor their website info and wanted to charge me extra so I cancelled the order and put a chain in and figured I'll keep the money in the US and at a local parts house. Saved over $200 going the chain and sprockets. I considered ording it from JK but they all come from DSG. So if your going to do business with DSG out of Canada BECAREFULL they are not always on the up and up. JK I think has the best price and at least a few bucks stay with John.

Had mine in for about 100k now and things are still looken good. As stated above the only time you hear them is when you pull the oil hill cap off.





Greg

Well I'm afraid I'm going to have to cheap out this time guys, going back to the chain gang, but thanks for all your input!

I've considered the Gear Set with concerns to harmonics being transfered from the valvetrain to the crankshaft. I've always been leary of adding a gear set to an engine that wasn't produced with one.


You hear the same thing in the Drag Race World. Gear sets on BBC's will break cranks. We run High Dollar Dampners on these motors and don't want any more vibration.


I think if somebody says 'Dampening effect' related to a chain, I think they mean it will not transmit vibration like a gear would.


I had it on a small block and absolutely loved it. The timing was perfect.


I WOULD like to try it on my 6.5.


I think JK is much cheaper than that thief DSG...Edited by: Billman

Difference is - BB Chevys run 1100-7000rpm in a few seconds, where the 6.5 is somewhat more sedate at less than 3500rpm, usually around ~2300 for periods of time, allowing the full floating gears to 'settle' in and do their job.


What I like about the set is I no longer hear the sound of a chainsaw across an iron pipe anytime the oil filler cap is removed when engine is idling.


The gearset is quiet.


To be fair, most sets are changed at high mileage, and the enthusiastic reports of throttle crispness, engine response, and gained (re-gained) power would also be noted with a new chain set, incl both sprockets.


Chains do not stretch - pin-to-link pivot joints wear, allowing much play in the joints.


Chain effective length is then variable - shorter, longer, allowing too much lash.


The sprocket wears in the depth between the teeth, reducing the effective sprocket diameter.


Combined sprocket\chain wear results in much 'slop' in chain fit, allowing retarded camshaft and injection pump timing, along with lots of (wanna talk about your harmonics!) chain slap.


A real true-roller chain would reduce this wear, but the dual-link chain in the 6.5 is not such, probably due to the extra harmonics that could be caused by worn rollers over the designed 100kmi chainset life.


Gearset or chainset will improve engine response, but gearset is reputed to maintain stable timing over several hundreds of thousands of miles.


That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.....


BTW, DSG prices are in Canadian dollars, and they shipped my set in two days, same pricing as here. Edited by: gmctd

JD


Most of my experienceis with the BBC. That's why I refer to it most of the time. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just a reference.


Good point about RPM. Never thought of it that way. I'm not exactly sure where the vibration occurs. I believe harmonics can come at all different RPM's though.


You Can change DSG's prices to U.S. Dollars. Still high...

.





BTW, DSG prices are in Canadian dollars, and they shipped my set in two days, same pricing as here.





They have prices both in US & CN Dollars, I ordered on the internet they had on there website that they provided an internet discount plus I requested a TDP discount that THEY said they would give in the memebers section. DSG WOULD NOT honor the discounts THEY were using to atract business. THIS is UNETHICAL! If they could not honor those discounts they need to remove it from their site and send a E-Mail to resind it to TDP members. I'm in business and if I tried that here in the USA with my business I could lose my license and be subject to fines of 6 figures. I'm glad GMCTD that you were happy, I'm just relating my experience with a vendor so becarefull. Edited by: 16gaSxS

I hear you 16gasxs, My work and my word are all that keeps me going. I go out of my way not to over promise.

Well, I have to say I am quite impressed at the difference the new timing chain made, which has to be very comparable to the claims of gear driven setup. Throttle response, which was pretty peppy to begin with, is now unreal for a diesel engine. Definite power improvements across the board, and even quicker starting though it never was terribly slow before. Replacing all the timing cover gaskets fixed my water leak problem too. The new waterpump, T-stat, corrected valve timing, advanced pump timing, and high-pops have really made this thing in to an unbelieveable, cool running machine. And POWER......WHOA! That turbo sound I mentioned I could hear from the exhaust at idle even turned up a notch, and you can really hear it whistle as soon as you put it in gear. Just have to do a little more tweaking and let the roads dry up and I'll post some 0-60 times.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Carefull TDG the added power is very addictive and can cause an increase in fuel consumption!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

LOL The least of his worries I bet


Enjoy

Thats the advantage of making more power from the pump and other engine mods, improve the efficiency of the engine rather than dump tons of fuel and boost at her. Bowtie is also right, if I suffer a couple MPGs loss (which I doubt I will) I won't rush to turn it down any.