Just ordered a box of primrose 405 to start running after noticing a bit of rust/deposits on the bottom of my filter, more the stock filter than the cat filter. I felt good about my decision until I started searching and previous debates left me a bit weary of my decision. Just wondering what you guys are running, whether your happy about your choice, expereinces since starting with additives both good/bad, and how many miles you've used them for. Am I making a smart choice? Thanks for the info as always guys.


Chris

fppt or ffpt or what ever the acronym is from John Kennedy. Total power with a bit of the ctane booster. run a richer mix in the winter, pretty weak in the summer.


edit: 29k cant say I notice any difference one way or another, I have skipped a few tanks for grins to see if there is any difference and I cant tell one. Edited by: ratlover

TTT, and who has had injector issues, those running no additive or those running an additive? I know there are other factor that come into play but im still learning and still appreciate the small stuff. A lil huff of smoke still makes me smile.

Stanadyne. Noticeably less injector rattle in both my diesels, especially noticeable in the 6.5 which is alot noisier to begin with. Less smoke as well. They claim to give better fuel mileage but I haven't noticed this being the case.

TTT anyone else?

I run Schaeffers sometimes, same as Eric sells, but not sure if is de or not.

I've done both the FPPF(Kennedy Sells) and the Schaeffers which Eric sells. Couldn't tell you which one is better or worse or even if they're needed, but at pennies a gallon I'd rather not take the risk.

SoyShield and Canola Additive on the 01 from 10K till present. Before 10K ran PowerService. 04.5 will run SoyShield and Canola Additive too.

I use Stanadyne Performance formula. I do notice that the truck runs much smoother with it. Stanadyne advertises a 5 point cetane gain which is where you get the performance and thus mileage. The detergents and lubricants among other things help the injectors stay happy and help prevent sticking. On race day it does not hurt to double dose it either. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

running rotella dfa for about 8 months now and can tell the filter is worlds cleaner than it was with no additive. Edited by: matt m

I've run an emulsifying additive since the beginning, first Redline 85+ and for the last year or so, Primrose 405. I think the Primrose might be a bit better, though the engine has run turbine smooth on both since new. Now 37+k miles, never any sign of water in the filters.

TC

Ran Stanadyne last year during the winter. No gelling. I also had the engine lope at idle problem that some owners seem to complain about. The lope stoped with the first tankful with Stanadyne.


I though it was coincidental. I stoped using the stanadyne the hunt gradualy came back after 2-months. I now add Stanadyne to the tank once a month; The lope has not come back.


I try to coincide it with a long highway trip and towing if possible. Nothing scientific; I just figure long high speed driving under a load might clean it better.


I just picked up some Rotella DFA a couple of months ago. Tried the same experiment. When the engine started to lope at idle, I added the Rotella DFA and the lope stoped.Edited by: JohnnyO

Hey guys any idea why this got moved to the LB7 forum, it does have to do with engine performance and concerns both the LB7 and LLY. Maybe im not aware of the rules or missed something and is there any way to move it back. I feel that power and performance is the highest viewed topic and am looking for fast results from the most people possible. Can someone fill me in?

Stanadyne. No problems on the new injextors and no 'lope'.

Have been running Primrose 405/409 since day 10; did a lot of reading on these forums about the different choices and took alot of advice from by brother in law who has been running diesels for 30 years; no problems, runs smooth and the filters have looked really good so far in 7 months and 15,000 miles.

Schaeffers diesel treat here, I do not know how to classify it!


Ron

Amsoil diesel fuel additive concentrate here, 4 oz per tankful. It is claimed by Amsoil to add considerably to lubricity as well as cleaning injectors and reducing deposits. Also lowers gel point by 25-35 deg.


Hope this additive and my Nicktane Filter are enough to keep me out of the woods on injectors. All is OK now, but my 03 only has 15K.

Old Man


What does it do with the water.


Genohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Geno,


Amsoil diesel fuel additive concentrate is not classified as either an emulsifier or a demulsfier. That's one reason I picked it to use, as I can see valid points of contention on both sides of the issue.


This way I can leave that one aspect of the fuel unchanged from when it left the refinery and still help out on the lubricity and detergency. I'm hoping the big ole Cat filter and the WIF part of the oem will be enough to head off a problem on water. I'm more concerned about particulates and lubricity. Just IMHO.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifI visited the PowerService Products, Inc. web site, and asked some questions of them. With their permission, I posted their response in another additive thread. For some interesting reading, please see the link below for their explanation of the differences in additives, and how they work.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13572&PN=1

A demusifier keeps water seperate from the oil


an emulsifier promotes a stable emulsion or misture of oil and water.


Schaeffer's Neutra Dt 2000 function as both.

FPPF to start out then changed to Primrose, can not tell any diff and fuel report from George was great.


Genohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

I thought emulisifiers were a strict no-no http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif

...Stanadyne Performance Formula as recommended by GM is the only de-mulsifier I run along with a RACOR R445 R90S (2 micron) pre-OEM fuel filter. All seems to be working well at 24000 miles...........SWH...


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/612_RACOR_445R__R90S_ASSY.jpg


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/STANADYNE_PERFORMANCE_FORMULA.jpg











Edited by: shuffman

I run Stanadyne in both my 01 GMC and my 98 vw jetta, after running it in a tank vs. without I can see a noticible difference in smothness and ease of starting, especially when the engine is cold. I'm considering begining to run it in my kubota tractor as well, as any one used it in this application?

thanks,
Kelly Campbell

Emsi. wrote.


I thought emulisifiers were a strict no-no.


Curious as to why you may think so?

I said this not based on any real research per-se, but it was my understanding from some not so attentive reading, that the way the HPCR system was designed, that it was not favorable for entrained water to enter into the system. Rather much more desireable to have a demulifier that would aid the water dropout system to filter out whatever moisture was in the fuel upstream of the HPCR. I myself do not run an additive. It seems to me that it was posted on this site at one point as part of a GM service bullitian as well. But again - not claiming this to be the gospel, hence the http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif

Road proven.....

Stanadyne (de-mulse) = RUST

Primrose (e-emulse) = NO RUST

AnEmulsifier that does a proper job is designed to break down the water into smaller droplets that will "flash" into steam in the comb. chamber and improve combustion. The drawback is lubricity. Some emulsifiers add a lubricity pkg because of this.

Road proven.....

Stanadyne (de-mulse) = RUST

Primrose (e-emulse) = NO RUST





In fact according to the TSB you have it backwards. Two de-mulsifiers were recommended from Racor and Stanadyne. The water is to be removed before it hits the fuel system to prevent fuel pump, line and injector corrosion. Emulsifiers actually bond the water molecules, via the use of alcohol, therefore any water is purposely introduced into the system hence the term "emulsify". De-mulsifiers such as Stanadyne Performance Formula and Racor allows the water to form droplets and water being heavier than diesel fuel allows the filter(s) water seperator(s) to do their intended job. Here is the specific TSB from GM http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6018&PN=3 It's an excellent explanation and in fact states that fuel additives for the Dmax must be chosen carefully. Hope this clears up any confusion.........SWH...Edited by: shuffman

You are correct demulsifiers keep the water seperate allowing the seperators to indeed seperate.


However there are drawbacks to de-mulsifiers as well.The whole idea is to get rid of the water. One does it one way the other another. As I said a good emulsifier will get rid of the water w/o rust by adding lubricity and you will gain mpg and combustion. And/or you can go with an additive that does both.

In fact according to the TSB you have it backwards. Two de-mulsifiers were recommended from Racor and Stanadyne. The water is to be removed before it hits the fuel system to prevent fuel pump, line and injector corrosion. Emulsifiers actually bond the water molecules, via the use of alcohol, therefore any water is purposely introduced into the system hence the term "emulsify." Hope this clears up any confusion.........SWH...





Sorry Shuffman, but you are slightly confused. Not all emulsifiers use alcohol. Alcohol additives are specifically prohibited. Some very good and proven emulsifiers (Primrose and FPPF for example) are NON-ALCOHOL. Free water droplets are devastating to the HPCR fuel injection system and do cause documented rusting in any area where small quanti**** of water are allowed to collect. Diesel is hygroscopic and contains entrained water all the time. The use of a high-quality non-alcohol emulsifying additive helps to maintain lubricity and to keep any free water entrained and safely transported through the system without corrosion or damage. The OEM filter is not an effective water separator and trap (heck, it's been proven to be even a marginal FILTER!). Use of a demulsifying additive is to encourage and risk the separation of free water to cause corrosion AND be transported to the pump and injectors to cause damage. I have been using FPPF from day one and will continue to use it throughout the hopefully long life of my truck. I have never had a rusty filter in 87,000 miles of trouble free service and with the regular use of FPPF should never have one. Your truck is your truck - do what you will with your truck - but you are not clearing any confusion for those less informed to make a blanket claim that all emulsifiers are alcohol based as statement of fact.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

[/QUOTE]


Sorry Shuffman, but you are slightly confused. Not all emulsifiers use alcohol. Alcohol additives are specifically prohibited. Some very good and proven emulsifiers (Primrose and FPPF for example) are NON-ALCOHOL. Free water droplets are devastating to the HPCR fuel injection system and do cause documented rusting in any area where small quanti**** of water are allowed to collect. Diesel is hygroscopic and contains entrained water all the time. The use of a high-quality non-alcohol emulsifying additive helps to maintain lubricity and to keep any free water entrained and safely transported through the system without corrosion or damage. The OEM filter is not an effective water separator and trap (heck, it's been proven to be even a marginal FILTER!). Use of a demulsifying additive is to encourage and risk the separation of free water to cause corrosion AND be transported to the pump and injectors to cause damage. I have been using FPPF from day one and will continue to use it throughout the hopefully long life of my truck. I have never had a rusty filter in 87,000 miles of trouble free service and with the regular use of FPPF should never have one. Your truck is your truck - do what you will with your truck - but you are not clearing any confusion for those less informed to make a blanket claim that all emulsifiers are alcohol based as statement of fact.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


[/QUOTE]





........Not to dispute what you say, in fact, after a little more research you are right in saying that some emulsifiers do not contain alcohol. My next question is, if emusifiers are the answer to keeping corrosion in check on the Dmax then why doesn't GM recommend an emusifier vs the demulsifier brands I mentioned in the post above. I wonder if it may be the case where all diesels are not the same ie: a Cummins compared to the Dmax. In other words what maybe good for on brand of diesel (emulsifier) may not be good for the other!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Also do you run a second filter as I do? I'm hoping the combination of my Racor R90S and the Oem filter will not only protect my Dmax from the dirty fuel out there but also keep the moisture in check. After reading these posts on rusty filters (OEM) I was curious so I opened up the OEM filter I changed out last month and there was no corrosion in the bottom of the3 filter casing or anywhere else for that matter and also the filter was suprisingly clean. That TSB I posted summed it up pretty good, IMHO and is clear enough on what type of conditioner should and should not be used in the Dmax. Good luck....................................SWH...Edit ed by: shuffman

DELETEDEdited by: shuffman

Yep, I have a Kennedy Mega filter post-OEM for about 12,000 miles now. I personally feel that GM's prohibitions and recommendations are more policy than science and will continue to use a high quality emulsifing additive in my truck (I also strongly suspect that the emulsifier prohibition is based on alcohol based additives - not emulsifier alone.) I respect your right to make a well-reasoned decision and follow any practice you choose in your truck. My thoughts and analysis say to avoid free liquid at any cost and I wish you the best of luck on your choice to chemically separate liquid from your fuel in your injection system.

shuffman

How do you explain this?

My neighbor uses stanadyne.

He fuels at the same station as me.

He has the same filter setup as me (oem + nictane)

He pulled his filters off at the same milage as me.

I use primrose.

He had a ton of rust.

I had NONE.