We are looking for a new toyhauler that will be substantially larger than the one we have now. Several of the units we are looking at have GVWR ratings of 17,000 to 18,000 lbs, and are 40 to 41 ft. fifth wheel trailers with triple axles. Our new truck has a maximum tow rating of 16,800 lbs.


Do I need to worry about this or not? Many trips will be done towing less than the maximum GVWR of the toyhauler, simply because we don't always travel with all of the water tanks and fuel pump station topped off, and because our 4 ATVs together weigh less than 2,000 lbs. So it is unlikely that we would have a full 6,000 lbs worth of cargo in the toyhauler, but possible. Can I safely tow just above the maximum rated towing capacity of my one ton dually, or is this something that should be "avoided at all cost"?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif This will bring a few out of the woodwork.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Short answer: No, tow away. I'm pulling 20,000 infrequently behind mine. No issues. Don't expect to keep your speed up all the time though. Just ain't enough power.

There are some precautions and legal constrains. First, you must never exceed the individual axle ratings or the GVW for the trailer or truck. Depending on how you load the trailer it is easy to put too much load on the truck. What you can pull is based more on what you can stop than power. The trailer brakes count here and it is imperative that you keep them in good working order. A good rule of thumb here is that a highway rated axle has braking power sufficient to stop it's rated load. Why I mention this is that many trailer manufacturers take credit for the trucks stopping power in their GVW ratings.

For instance a trailer rated at 18,000 may only have two 7,000 lb axles expecting the truck to pick up the extra 4,000 pounds. This will be a problem on steep grades. You don't have enough stopping power. My trailer, though rated at 20,000 has three 7,000 lb axles. This is overkill, but it is also peace of mind.

Anyway, from what you described, a triple axle trailer as long as the axles are rated 5,000 lb or better will be fine.Edited by: Fingers

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif This will bring a few out of the woodwork.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif




This is gona be good...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif First DITTO what Fingers said. I guess since I tow identical to what you are considering purchasing and we have almost identical vehicles I'll put my .02 cents worth in this post. Yeah Zeeb, everytime someone post the ole towing question it gets very interesting on this site. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I tow a 40' Sunnybrook SUV391, dry weight 13,426 lbs, fully loaded 16,600 lbs. GVWR 18k, triple axle, Mor-ryde suspension. You will definitely know its back there. My stock D/A tows my unit pretty well. I do plan on a TTS or similar tow tune in the near future though. Some will suggest a 4500 D/A or Ford F450/550. Since you've already purchased your truck, unless you have "money-to-burn" 3500 it is! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I'm a big believer in keeping the RPM's above 2000 when towing for more HP, torque and cooling (I like 2200-2500). I use the tow-haul mode religiously when towing. I can tow in 5th gear at 70mph on flat lands, 55-60 in 4th with hills/inclines.


You might also consider a brush/push guard just in case Bambi decides to cross the street at the wrong time. Swirving with that much weight behind you can be disastrous.


As you know toy haulers take on a totally different dynamic than conventional trailers since they are designed to take on considerable amounts of weight on their ass ends. The units you are looking at probably have little, if any, weight on the rear axles sitting dry. I recently purchased an electric utility cart to use for my business and the extra weight (700-800lbs) is causing some "bucking" on the pin, sort of a pendulum effect. I'm going to redistribute some weight to the front of the RV this weekend to eliminate this. Might even add a generator since it is pre-wired. That should give me an extra 200lbs on the pin. You've probably noticed your dually rides better with 3-4k pounds of pin weight on it. Expect somewhere around 8-9 mpg, less in the mountains. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


What units are you looking at? We looked at KZ, Holiday Rambler, Keystone, and several other units before settling on the Sunnybrook. What sold me on Sunnybrook was: owner loyalty; the attention to detail/fit-finish; AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I spoke with a manager at an RV towing company who informed me that other manufacturers units they haul will disintegrate in an accident, whereas the Sunnybrooks often could be uprighted and driven away. They utilize larger frames than most, I liked that! Good luck!


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Ditto what Fingers said.


I would take your new found info and run for the hills as the out of the woodwork comment is an understatement. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

JJs,


After all is said and done, we will probably end up purchasing a Dune Chaser 37CK fifth wheel. We have also been looking at a Rampage 385, and have even looked at an Alfa Toyhouse THF40R, but that one is probably out of my price range. The Dune Chaser is essentially at the weight limit of my truck, with a GVWR of 16,950 lbs. The Rampage 385 has a GVWR of 17,600 lbs, and the Alfa THF40R has a GVWR of 18,500 lbs.Edited by: Yamahauler

As you know toy haulers take on a totally different dynamic than conventional trailers since they are designed to take on considerable amounts of weight on their ass ends. The units you are looking at probably have little, if any, weight on the rear axles sitting dry. I recently purchased an electric utility cart to use for my business and the extra weight (700-800lbs) is causing some "bucking" on the pin, sort of a pendulum effect. I'm going to redistribute some weight to the front of the RV this weekend to eliminate this. Might even add a generator since it is pre-wired. That should give me an extra 200lbs on the pin. You've probably noticed your dually rides better with 3-4k pounds of pin weight on it. Expect somewhere around 8-9 mpg, less in the mountains. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


What units are you looking at? We looked at KZ, Holiday Rambler, Keystone, and several other units before settling on the Sunnybrook. What sold me on Sunnybrook was: owner loyalty; the attention to detail/fit-finish; AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I spoke with a manager at an RV towing company who informed me that other manufacturers units they haul will disintegrate in an accident, whereas the Sunnybrooks often could be uprighted and driven away. They utilize larger frames than most, I liked that! Good luck!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif JJ




DuMax, redistributing the weight will help if not cure the bucking if it was not there before. I have also found the hitch height is paramount in keeping the slam to a minimum. For me, the trailer pulls best if the front axle is unloaded about 1/2" more than the back. That is, the trailer is slightly tongue high.

I fought a bad bucking problem the first couple of times I towed real heavy (30,200 GCVW) and was at the limited on how much weight I could shift forward. I noticed that the front axle was loaded up too much so I raised the hitch, and all has been well since. Of course, your milage may vary.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Edited by: Fingers

Fingers, thanks for the intel. I have to ask what are you towing at 30,200 GCVW? I've seen where guys tow regularly in the 30k+ range with these trucks. JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I had a custom tri axle gooseneck dump built with a 18' bed. I haul darn near everything in it. Skid loader, backhoe, gravel, most anything. I'll see if I can sratch up a picture for you. This replaces my 10 ton dump and trailer. Rides nicer too.

BTW, 3x7000# axles plus 9,200 GVW pickup = 30,200 GCVW. All within Mfg specs.

I had a custom tri axle gooseneck dump built with a 18' bed. I haul darn near everything in it. Skid loader, backhoe, gravel, most anything. I'll see if I can sratch up a picture for you. This replaces my 10 ton dump and trailer. Rides nicer too.

BTW, 3x7000# axles plus 9,200 GVW pickup = 30,200 GCVW. All within Mfg specs.


And in some states (all states legally) make u get a CDL.


I take it u have a class A CDL fingers?

I could be off on my numbers fingers, however I figure that your actually over weight


trailer weight is about 21K or so, with a gooseneck give it about 4k on the tougue and with a 7k light weight it puts the truck at about 11k...


that is my quick math,


however my bigger concern would be the braking effectivness of the truck. with a 20K plus load you would be heating and glazzing the brakes with that kinda of load.


That is why most drivers go to a larger rig, not only what you can carry but what you can stop with





Pete

I had a custom tri axle gooseneck dump built with a 18' bed. I haul darn near everything in it. Skid loader, backhoe, gravel, most anything. I'll see if I can sratch up a picture for you. This replaces my 10 ton dump and trailer. Rides nicer too.

BTW, 3x7000# axles plus 9,200 GVW pickup = 30,200 GCVW. All within Mfg specs.


And in some states (all states legally) make u get a CDL.


I take it u have a class A CDL fingers?







Yes I do. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif A must in the constuction/excavation business even though I am semi-reitred now. Actually, CDL is require in all states for &gt;26,000. DOT physical for any commerical over 11,000 (IIRC)

I could be off on my numbers fingers, however I figure that your actually over weight


trailer weight is about 21K or so, with a gooseneck give it about 4k on the tougue and with a 7k light weight it puts the truck at about 11k...


that is my quick math,


however my bigger concern would be the braking effectivness of the truck. with a 20K plus load you would be heating and glazzing the brakes with that kinda of load.


That is why most drivers go to a larger rig, not only what you can carry but what you can stop with





Pete










No, I ran it cross the scales. Power unit (pickup) was 9,184 with me in it and the trailer axles were taking 20,190 something. Dumb luck that it came out that way hauling the one machine. Total package weigh in at 30,000 somthing.

The truck is holding back it share, 9200 per spec and the trialer brakes holding back thiers, 21,000. What you can stop with is a function of your TOTAL braking power. This includes the trailer brakes.

Until recently, you had to go with the bigger rigs to get both the power and the lower gears needed to pull these medium loads. You could always make up the braking power with a correctly set up trailer. I've kept my big truck around just to pull things now for years for just that reason. In the last 5 years I think I put maybe 3,500 mile on the big truck. I just don't need to use it anymore.

If I was still working 9-5 I would still use a bigger rig, but for the heavy dutiness of the driveline and truck in general. Not becuase I HAVE to. 40 hrs per week, every week is more wear and tear than I want to put my pickup through. It wouldn't be cost effective to replace a pickup every 2-3 years (if I was lucky) when I could run the a big truck 10-20 years. The big truck is just harder to break.

Fingers, you obviously have quite a bit of towing experience. I always caution folks giving out towing advice that not all of us are created equal when it comes to towing. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Can't tell you how many trucks I have seen towing trailers that were a disaster waiting to happen. Forums like this are great for gaining intel. Just because your truck will tow 16000 lbs doesn't mean you should tow it if you haven't towed before.


Yamamahauler, that is a great looking rig. Stay safe on the road!


JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

JJ,

Although it is against my nature, I have to agree with you.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I've been pulling odd loads for a good while now as part of my business and have gone out of my way to find out what is "safe" and how to do it "safely". Why do you think I run the heavy loads over the scales? So I am probably too quick to answer the "How much can I tow" question. The answer, really, comes in three parts. The abilities of the driver, the limits of the equipment, and the laws governing the two. I am still working on getting all three addressed at the same time.

So, let me try this:

Yamamahauler, Your truck can pull the heavier trailer just fine, but keep in mind that as you get heavier, you need to pay much closer attention to details. You can't just bust down the highway like you want anymore. You must always be attentive to how hard you are working your brakes, tires, and such and what condition they are in. You need to learn how to load your trailer for stability and axle loading. And lastly, if something isn't right, you have to fix it now, not later or next week.

How's that JJ?

Well thanks for the input everyone, I am glad I found this forum. I have towed a wide variety of equipment over the last 30 years, ranging from a stubby little off-road pack trailer behind my Jeep, to a slew of different grain trailers on my father's farm, to a Cat 955 Traxcavator on a triple axle low-boy equipment trailer, back when I used to work in construction operating more different trucks and equipment than I can remember. And I have been towing our current 11,000 GVWR toyhauler for the past three years without any problems. I certainly plan to "play it safe" on the first several trips with the new toyhauler, because it will be the biggest piece of equipment I have towed, at least as far as length and heigth goes (the Cat 955 outweighed it by several tons, but the Cat 955 was towed with a 10 wheel dump truck). I tow at 65 mph, or less, so having the fastest truck, or setting the quickest time to a destination are way down on the priority list.


Thanks again.


YamahaulerEdited by: Yamahauler

Fingers/YH, I gotta tell ya I feel a little safer knowing there are guys out there hauling that take it serious enough to educate themselves on forums like this. I look forward to sharing the road with you! JJ's out! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif