I have searched the forums and havent found an answer here or in the maintainence section so here goes. How will GMC/Chevy go about cleaning these buggers????????? I know about the regen modes and mainly it being self sufficient, but from waht I read they will require periodical off the truck cleaning. Caterpillar from what I read will have an exchange program until they get machines in dealerships (ie read machines 10000+). I do know federal epa says that the filter must not require off the truck maintenance for at least 100,000 miles or more (in light duty applications. HOwever, w/some hot shot guys or guys hauling rv's who run 100000 miles a year a dpf cleaning isnt so far off. OR I imagine somone runs off road fuel (higher sulfer quicker clogging), or ash 2 stroke oil etc would maybe require a quicker cleaning that jsut plain regens cant handle by itself. My question to the cat dealer was these this cost so darn much waht IF I lived in flordia and I got one exchanged and I got an exchanged one from say MINN or new york etc and it rusted away. The dealers response was UH, well, they are expensive due to precious metals used to make them, and they should be inspected for rust etc before they are sent out to dealerships. I called 2 local dealerships for giggles this afternoon and said ok already to place an order for a new truck , but first how are you gonna clean my dpf when I need maintenance. Both dealerships were what do who , waht, clean your what???? After explaining it to them (both dealers seemed less then knowledgable) that these new trucks have soot traps and will potentially require some maintenace, how will they handle it (have machines, stock exchanges etc etc) they transfered me into the maintenace dept who were again less then helpful. Like i said the caterpillar off vehicle cleaning machine was reported to cost around 10,000 dollars, I cant imagine every chevy dealer having one. Any ideas?

I will try to help answer some your questions, but first I’m going say I’m happy you’re considering a 07 LMM. The next thing the periodic maintenance you’re mentioning is for cleaning the ash out of the DPF. You are correct in the cost of the cleaning machine, it’s cost is somewhere around 10K. Now, like you stated the ash-cleaning interval should be around 120K, under the conditions that your engine does not burn excessive oil and the correct CJ-4 oil is used.

The regens you mention only clean the soot or unburned HC, they do not take care of the ash. The ash comes from oil that is a natural by produce of diesel combustion.

Now, running the off road fuel (higher sulfur content fuel) will damage the DOC and DPF, it will cause the precious metals to degrade, thus their efficiency will degrade and they will need replacement not cleaning.

The reason the dealers don’t know about the maintenance is because it’s still under the final stages of development. We hope that the dealers will have a cleaning procedure to remove the ash as soon as possible. What is likely to happen is the high volume dealers will get a cleaning machine and the smaller dealers will have to send the filter to the higher volume dealers for cleaning, both the soot and ash have to be collected and safely disposed of since they are both hazardous materials.

I will try to help answer some your questions, but first I’m going say I’m happy you’re considering a 07 LMM. The next thing the periodic maintenance you’re mentioning is for cleaning the ash out of the DPF. You are correct in the cost of the cleaning machine, it’s cost is somewhere around 10K. Now, like you stated the ash-cleaning interval should be around 120K, under the conditions that your engine does not burn excessive oil and the correct CJ-4 oil is used.

The regens you mention only clean the soot or unburned HC, they do not take care of the ash. The ash comes from oil that is a natural by produce of diesel combustion.

Now, running the off road fuel (higher sulfur content fuel) will damage the DOC and DPF, it will cause the precious metals to degrade, thus their efficiency will degrade and they will need replacement not cleaning.

The reason the dealers don’t know about the maintenance is because it’s still under the final stages of development. We hope that the dealers will have a cleaning procedure to remove the ash as soon as possible. What is likely to happen is the high volume dealers will get a cleaning machine and the smaller dealers will have to send the filter to the higher volume dealers for cleaning, both the soot and ash have to be collected and safely disposed of since they are both hazardous materials.
I know, this is basically my ?, will they be sent off to be cleaned (ie losing my truck for few days), or will htey have "clean" ones in stock and its just an exchange deal. Or will gm supply all of the dealers w/a machine :p: (yes I know that will never ever happen. LIke i said I know cat on the medium and heavy duty trucks are doing the exchange, cat dealers should have a "good clean one" in stock take yours off put the new one on and down the road. I don tknow what will happen if you get a "good" one that rusts out 3 months after you put it on, I would hope cat covers it.

PS I doubt I will order a new turck I just said I was ready to to see waht they would say. I wont order a new one till at least 08 or 09 before the new 2010 emmission junk comes out and they get the bugs 100% worked out of these. I know they been running them in test mules and overseas but still want to see all the kinks worked out. I still have not gotton 100% conformation that no way no how the darn thing wont light up when im in a hay field etc. I have been told the dpf is double insulated and the skin of it wont be "much" hotter then a current muffler gets but I sure dont want regen mode in the field. I know its SUPPOSED to only happen when traveling above 30mph but I want to make darn sure.

this is all the info I could find in service info. Exhaust Particulate Filter Cleaning (DPF Service Regeneration)
Diagnostic Instructions
• Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.

• Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.

• Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provide an overview of each diagnostic category.

Caution: Tailpipe outlet exhaust temperature will be greater than 300°C (572°F) during service regeneration. To help prevent personal injury or property damage from fire or burns, perform the following:

Do not connect any shop exhaust removal hoses to the vehicle's tailpipe.
Park the vehicle outdoors and keep people, other vehicles, and combustible material away during service regeneration.
Do not leave the vehicle unattended.

Caution: To avoid extremely elevated exhaust temperatures, inspect and remove any debris or mud build up at the exhaust cooler located at the tailpipe.

Notice: Due to the elevated engine temperatures created while performing this procedure it is imperative to keep the front of vehicle in an open environment, away from any walls or buildings, this will ensure proper airflow across the radiator.

Conditions for Running
The following conditions must be met in order to enable DPF Service Regeneration:


Important: Do not refuel the vehicle during DPF Service Regeneration.


• There are no active DTCs displayed.

• The battery voltage is greater than 10 volts.

• The engine speed is between 600-1,250 RPM.

• The exhaust gas temperature (EGT) sensors 1 and 2 are less than 400°C (752°F).

• The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor 1 is between 70-115°C (158-239°F).

• The brake pedal and accelerator pedal are in the released position.

• The transmission is in park or neutral.

Test Procedure
Review the DTC information with a scan tool. Repair any codes before proceeding with DPF Service Regeneration.
Check the following fluid levels before and after this procedure:
• Engine oil

• Engine coolant

• Power steering

• Transmission

• Fuel level should be over 15 percent to ensure a successful regeneration.

Park the vehicle outside the facility and away from any obstacles.
Place the transmission in Park and apply the parking brake.
Raise the hood.
Select DPF Service Regeneration in the Output Controls menu and follow the instruction on the scan tool.
Command the DPF Service Regeneration with the scan tool.
The DPF Service Regeneration will take approximately 35 minutes consisting of the following:
8.1. 8 minutes for the exhaust system to warm up, with the engine speed slowly increasing to 1,600 RPM, then 2,200 RPM and finally 2,500 RPM

8.2. 20 minutes for the DPF to regenerate at 2,500 RPM

8.3. 3 minutes for the exhaust system to cool down with the engine speed will slowly returning to 1,400 RPM

8.4. 3 minutes at 800 RPM, then idle speed of 680 RPM

The DPF Service Regeneration can be terminated by performing any of the following actions:
• Applying the brake pedal

• Applying the accelerator pedal

• Selecting Drive or Reverse

• Commanding DPF Service Regeneration OFF using the scan tool or disconnecting the scan tool from the vehicle

• The DPF Service Regeneration will be automatically terminated if certain DTCs are set or if the DPF or ECT temperatures exceed a calibrated threshold.

After the service regeneration completes, allow the vehicle to idle for an additional 2 minutes while monitoring the scan tool DTC information. There should be no additional DTCs setting.
⇒ If service regeneration aborts, correct the condition for running service regeneration and then reset.

⇒ If service regeneration fails, repair the vehicle for the condition indicated by the failure message on the scan tool. Refer to the Service Regeneration Fault Table.

Caution: Refer to Road Test Caution in Cautions and Notices.

Important: DTC P2002 can set if the vehicle is not operated under the following conditions:

Operate the vehicle within the following conditions:
• The vehicle speed is greater than 40 km/h (25 mph).

• The engine load is greater that 25 percent.

• Engine Run Time Since Last DPF Regeneration is less than 10 minutes.

• Distance Since Last DPF Regeneration is less than 30 km (18.6 miles).

• The Soot Mass is less than 40 grams.

• DTC P2002 runs one time after the above conditions are met.

• Verify that P2002 has run and passed.

Verify that the scan tool DPF Soot Mass parameter is less than 10 grams.
Service Regeneration Unsuccessful
• Observe the scan tool for DTCs. If any DTCs are displayed, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle .

• DPF Regen Inhibit Reason parameter, will display a reason for not enabling DPF Service Regeneration. Refer to the parameters that are displayed.

• DPF Regeneration Status parameter will display Active or Not Required depending on the current commanded state of regeneration.

• DPF Soot Mass parameter, will display greater than 10 grams, indicating excessive particulate matter is still present in the filter, another Service Regeneration may be necessary.

Service Regeneration Status Fault Table DPF Regeneration Parameters
Successful Regeneration
Unsuccessful Regeneration

DPF Regeneration Status
Not Required
Active or Required

DPF Regeneration Reason
None
Fuel Used

Engine Run Time

Distance Traveled

DPF Pressure

Soot Mass

Calculated Soot

DPF Regeneration Inhibit Reason
None
Varies

DPF Soot Mass
Less than 10 grams
Greater than 10 grams



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

seems to me its all done onboard with scan tool but I could be wrong. this is out of owners manual.Diesel Particulate Filter
Your vehicle has a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) as part of the exhaust system to reduce vehicle emissions. The DPF requires a unique exhaust tailpipe with an exhaust cooler. The exhaust cooler mixes air with the exhaust at the tailpipe. This lowers the exhaust temperature before it leaves the tailpipe.

The DPF, the tailpipe, or other exhaust system components must not be altered. The area where the exhaust cooler connects to the tailpipe should be inspected, especially the area where the fresh air enters the cooler. Make sure the openings are not restricted or plugged with mud or dirt which could inhibit exhaust gas cooling. See "Exhaust System Inspection" under At Least Once a Year .

The DPF will regenerate (self-clean) itself as part of normal operation. The Engine Control Module (ECM) controls this function based on several factors including the amount of fuel consumed, hours of engine operation and miles driven. On average, the DPF will clean itself about once per tank of fuel.

Notice: Use of diesel fuel other than Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (15 ppm sulfur maximum) or engine oil other than low ash CJ-4 oil will cause permanent damage to the DPF and related components. This damage would not be covered by your warranty.

Your DPF equipped vehicle has specific fuel and engine oil requirements. See What Fuel to Use and Engine Oil to make sure you use the required fuel and engine oil.

Caution: During DPF regeneration, the exhaust system and exhaust gases are very hot. Things that burn could touch hot exhaust parts under your vehicle and ignite. You or others could be burned. Do not park near or over papers, leaves, dry grass, or other things that can burn.

If you have a pickup model and the CLEAN EXHAUST FILTER SEE OWNERS MANUAL NOW message appears in the Driver Information Center (DIC), the DPF needs to be cleaned. If you have a van model and the engine exhaust gas filter warning light, CLN EXH FILTER, comes on, the DPF needs to be cleaned. See DIC Warnings and Messages for pickup models, or Engine Exhaust Gas Filter Warning Light for van models.

To clean the filter, drive the vehicle above 30 mph (50 km/h) until the warning light/message goes off. This will take about 20 minutes.

Notice: Extended idle should be avoided because the DPF system is not capable of regenerating at idle. During extended idle, be sure to watch for the DPF warning light/message which could come on to indicate that the DPF is becoming full and needs regeneration. If the light/message comes on, stop the idling and drive the vehicle as described previously to clean the filter. Continued idling with the warning light/message on could cause irreversible damage to the DPF requiring repair and possible replacement that might not be covered by your warranty.

Extended idling in PARK (P) can cause exhaust parts and gases to become very hot. Keep the exhaust area clear of material that could ignite or burn. See Parking Over Things That Burn for more information.

The DPF warning light/message comes on when the DPF is dirty and needs regenerating. You will also notice a change in the exhaust sound and engine idle speed. This is normal.

If you continue to drive with the DPF warning light/message on and the exhaust filter is not cleaned as required, the check engine and reduced engine power warning lights will come on and dealer/retailer service is necessary. See Malfunction Indicator Lamp and Reduced Engine Power Light for more information.

For vehicles with Power Take-Off (PTO), monitor the instrument panel cluster for lights related to the DPF.

All engines consume some amount of engine oil. This is normal. The by-product of combustion of engine oil is ash. The ash will become trapped in the DPF over the life of the vehicle. Eventually, the buildup of ash will restrict the exhaust gases and the DPF will need to be cleaned or replaced.

See Accessories and Modifications for important information.

See Parking Over Things That Burn for more information LOL

This crap is supposed to be better for the environment yet we better not park over things that burn. I can see the headline now "Diesel pickup sparks forest fire". The irony of all this just cracks me up.

this is all the info I could find in service info. Exhaust Particulate Filter Cleaning (DPF Service Regeneration)
Diagnostic Instructions
• Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.

• Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.

• Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provide an overview of each diagnostic category.

Caution: Tailpipe outlet exhaust temperature will be greater than 300°C (572°F) during service regeneration. To help prevent personal injury or property damage from fire or burns, perform the following:

Do not connect any shop exhaust removal hoses to the vehicle's tailpipe.
Park the vehicle outdoors and keep people, other vehicles, and combustible material away during service regeneration.
Do not leave the vehicle unattended.

Caution: To avoid extremely elevated exhaust temperatures, inspect and remove any debris or mud build up at the exhaust cooler located at the tailpipe.

Notice: Due to the elevated engine temperatures created while performing this procedure it is imperative to keep the front of vehicle in an open environment, away from any walls or buildings, this will ensure proper airflow across the radiator.

Conditions for Running
The following conditions must be met in order to enable DPF Service Regeneration:


Important: Do not refuel the vehicle during DPF Service Regeneration.


• There are no active DTCs displayed.

• The battery voltage is greater than 10 volts.

• The engine speed is between 600-1,250 RPM.

• The exhaust gas temperature (EGT) sensors 1 and 2 are less than 400°C (752°F).

• The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor 1 is between 70-115°C (158-239°F).

• The brake pedal and accelerator pedal are in the released position.

• The transmission is in park or neutral.

Test Procedure
Review the DTC information with a scan tool. Repair any codes before proceeding with DPF Service Regeneration.
Check the following fluid levels before and after this procedure:
• Engine oil

• Engine coolant

• Power steering

• Transmission

• Fuel level should be over 15 percent to ensure a successful regeneration.

Park the vehicle outside the facility and away from any obstacles.
Place the transmission in Park and apply the parking brake.
Raise the hood.
Select DPF Service Regeneration in the Output Controls menu and follow the instruction on the scan tool.
Command the DPF Service Regeneration with the scan tool.
The DPF Service Regeneration will take approximately 35 minutes consisting of the following:
8.1. 8 minutes for the exhaust system to warm up, with the engine speed slowly increasing to 1,600 RPM, then 2,200 RPM and finally 2,500 RPM

8.2. 20 minutes for the DPF to regenerate at 2,500 RPM

8.3. 3 minutes for the exhaust system to cool down with the engine speed will slowly returning to 1,400 RPM

8.4. 3 minutes at 800 RPM, then idle speed of 680 RPM

The DPF Service Regeneration can be terminated by performing any of the following actions:
• Applying the brake pedal

• Applying the accelerator pedal

• Selecting Drive or Reverse

• Commanding DPF Service Regeneration OFF using the scan tool or disconnecting the scan tool from the vehicle

• The DPF Service Regeneration will be automatically terminated if certain DTCs are set or if the DPF or ECT temperatures exceed a calibrated threshold.

After the service regeneration completes, allow the vehicle to idle for an additional 2 minutes while monitoring the scan tool DTC information. There should be no additional DTCs setting.
⇒ If service regeneration aborts, correct the condition for running service regeneration and then reset.

⇒ If service regeneration fails, repair the vehicle for the condition indicated by the failure message on the scan tool. Refer to the Service Regeneration Fault Table.

Caution: Refer to Road Test Caution in Cautions and Notices.

Important: DTC P2002 can set if the vehicle is not operated under the following conditions:

Operate the vehicle within the following conditions:
• The vehicle speed is greater than 40 km/h (25 mph).

• The engine load is greater that 25 percent.

• Engine Run Time Since Last DPF Regeneration is less than 10 minutes.

• Distance Since Last DPF Regeneration is less than 30 km (18.6 miles).

• The Soot Mass is less than 40 grams.

• DTC P2002 runs one time after the above conditions are met.

• Verify that P2002 has run and passed.

Verify that the scan tool DPF Soot Mass parameter is less than 10 grams.
Service Regeneration Unsuccessful
• Observe the scan tool for DTCs. If any DTCs are displayed, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle .

• DPF Regen Inhibit Reason parameter, will display a reason for not enabling DPF Service Regeneration. Refer to the parameters that are displayed.

• DPF Regeneration Status parameter will display Active or Not Required depending on the current commanded state of regeneration.

• DPF Soot Mass parameter, will display greater than 10 grams, indicating excessive particulate matter is still present in the filter, another Service Regeneration may be necessary.

Service Regeneration Status Fault Table DPF Regeneration Parameters
Successful Regeneration
Unsuccessful Regeneration

DPF Regeneration Status
Not Required
Active or Required

DPF Regeneration Reason
None
Fuel Used

Engine Run Time

Distance Traveled

DPF Pressure

Soot Mass

Calculated Soot

DPF Regeneration Inhibit Reason
None
Varies

DPF Soot Mass
Less than 10 grams
Greater than 10 grams



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This service procedure is for the removal of excessive soot only, not ash, regeneration will not remove the ash. This is another company's way of cleaning the ash. The DPF will be serviced regenerated first, and then removed from the vehicle, it will then be blown out with compressed air. What they forgot to mention was how the ash was going to be collected and disposed of safely.

I would not worry about rust through, the DPF is stainless steel and double walled.

As far the exchanging the DPF, I don't think that will happen because there would be no way of telling how many miles are on the exchanged unit. I am sure if your truck with 10k on it needs a DPF, it will get a new one.

Remember, the only reason the Diesels are getting the Exhaust Filter is because of CARB / EPA new emission regulations. :rules: The regulations are going to get even tighter in 2010MY.

I could'nt agree more with you guys, this is a :nutkick: ::

I guess what i'm saying is there is no procedure for removing it to clean ash In GM's perfect world there would be no ash if the correct fuel and oil is used. the whole thing doent look servicable it will probly need replacement if it plugs with ash. but again its just speculation because they havent put any info out yet. and there is nothing about it in the service manual or maintenance schedule.

This service procedure is for the removal of excessive soot only, not ash, regeneration will not remove the ash. This is another company's way of cleaning the ash. The DPF will be serviced regenerated first, and then removed from the vehicle, it will then be blown out with compressed air. What they forgot to mention was how the ash was going to be collected and disposed of safely.

I would not worry about rust through, the DPF is stainless steel and double walled.

As far the exchanging the DPF, I don't think that will happen because there would be no way of telling how many miles are on the exchanged unit. I am sure if your truck with 10k on it needs a DPF, it will get a new one.

Remember, the only reason the Diesels are getting the Exhaust Filter is because of CARB / EPA new emission regulations. :rules: The regulations are going to get even tighter in 2010MY.

I could'nt agree more with you guys, this is a :nutkick: ::
To clean the filter, drive the vehicle above 30 mph (50 km/h) until the warning light/message goes off. This will take about 20 minutes.
What if you drive in new york? Seriously drive 30mph+???????/ All seriousness what do those guys do?? seems crazy youd have to drive on the freeway or to anther city to clean your dpf(we're supposed to be conserving fuel etc and now I have to take my truck out for a drive to clean her out? YOu say its not supposed to be covered w/mud???????? MY truck is almost always covered in mud, many construction trucks are ALWAYS covered in mud. YOur tell ing me all the pickups my company has will have to be washed even weekly??? NO IDLINg???? What about wrecker companies??????50% of thier time is idling usually. Drive across town stop, fill out the paper work load it, chain it down drive across town, unchhain it, give the apper work to dispatch get the coffee, bathroom call the wife and kids and go on antoher call across town. I agree w/the above post this isnt describing the procedure to collect the ash. This will be have to be done off the vehicle. I know it has partially to do w/air (though I dont think you can go outback stick your air nozzle in there and blow it out. (plus you have to collect the "hazardous material".) This stuff used to just go inot the atmosphere for the last 100 yeras and now all the sudden its hazardous material that will sit in some landfill for the next 1,000 years until it leaks into a water supply underground. ALL LANDFILLS EVENTUALLY LEAK. I can go down to the local landfill and dig down and read the newspaper from 40 years ago they are packed so tight, air cant get to it and decompose it. But back to the origional ? how are dealers gonna deal w/this ash???? I Know by epa federal regulations, the cleaning must not occur before 100,000 miles (typical intervals should be aroudn 120,000 miles. but some of these guys are putting 100.000 miles per year on so realistically its not too far off ahvgin to have one of them cleaned and seems dealers dont ahve a freaking clue. But more importantly some bozo somewhere in the world is gonna dump red fuel in it or put used engine oil in it or something and clogg the dpf w/in a month of woning his new truck and whats gm gonna do about cleaning it. I KNOW gm shouldnt cover the cost of cleaning or cleaingin it out if somone put the wrong fuel in their truck (i know those posts are coming) but the fact is its screwed up and how is gm gonna fix it or clean it regardless fo fault.

thats why i think if they expect it to be 100k before it needs to be dome you may just need to buy a new one and the old one will go back for core. and thejdman said it for me if some idiot puts in off road fuel he deserves to pay the price of a new one, it is also illeagal. someday you may not even be able to buy off road diesel.

I guess what i'm saying is there is no procedure for removing it to clean ash In GM's perfect world there would be no ash if the correct fuel and oil is used. the whole thing doent look servicable it will probly need replacement if it plugs with ash. but again its just speculation because they havent put any info out yet. and there is nothing about it in the service manual or maintenance schedule.

There will be a procedure for removing the ash, but,it's not available as of today. The DPF is serviceable, the special tools needed to clean the DPF are very expensive, the tool is large and the cost is around 10K. You don't have to worry about the ash for 120k miles. The ash build up will be minimal, the wrong fuel will not cause excessive ash, and even the wrong oil will not impact the amount of ash.

The engine burning too much oil is the main factor in ash accumulation.

How much oil does your Duramax burn?

What if you drive in new york? Seriously drive 30mph+???????/ All seriousness what do those guys do?? seems crazy youd have to drive on the freeway or to anther city to clean your dpf(we're supposed to be conserving fuel etc and now I have to take my truck out for a drive to clean her out?

Regeneration will happen at 30 MPH, even with the engine at an idle and in gear. The reason for a freeway trip would be somthing like this, if the vehicle is driven in very short trips and at very low speeds. Then a clean exhaust message will appear on the dash because a regen is needed. The most effective way to enable an automatic or an active regen is to drive the vehicle over 40 MPH for approx 20 minutes.

YOu say its not supposed to be covered w/mud???????? MY truck is almost always covered in mud, many construction trucks are ALWAYS covered in mud.

The only part of the exhaust system that needs to stay clear is the openings at the exhaust cooler.The vents at the cooler must remain clear in order to reduce exhaust temps durning regens.

YOur tell ing me all the pickups my company has will have to be washed even weekly??? NO IDLINg???? What about wrecker companies??????50% of thier time is idling usually. Drive across town stop, fill out the paper work load it, chain it down drive across town, unchhain it, give the apper work to dispatch get the coffee, bathroom call the wife and kids and go on antoher call across town. I agree w/the above post this isnt describing the procedure to collect the ash. This will be have to be done off the vehicle. I know it has partially to do w/air (though I dont think you can go outback stick your air nozzle in there and blow it out. (plus you have to collect the "hazardous material".) This stuff used to just go inot the atmosphere for the last 100 yeras and now all the sudden its hazardous material that will sit in some landfill for the next 1,000 years until it leaks into a water supply underground. ALL LANDFILLS EVENTUALLY LEAK. I can go down to the local landfill and dig down and read the newspaper from 40 years ago they are packed so tight, air cant get to it and decompose it. But back to the origional ? how are dealers gonna deal w/this ash???? I Know by epa federal regulations, the cleaning must not occur before 100,000 miles (typical intervals should be aroudn 120,000 miles. but some of these guys are putting 100.000 miles per year on so realistically its not too far off ahvgin to have one of them cleaned and seems dealers dont ahve a freaking clue. But more importantly some bozo somewhere in the world is gonna dump red fuel in it or put used engine oil in it or something and clogg the dpf w/in a month of woning his new truck and whats gm gonna do about cleaning it. I KNOW gm shouldnt cover the cost of cleaning or cleaingin it out if somone put the wrong fuel in their truck (i know those posts are coming) but the fact is its screwed up and how is gm gonna fix it or clean it regardless fo fault.

Good questions, and I see your concerns, but, it's not going to be that big a deal. The truck can get muddy, it can idle for many hours with no problems. The dealer are currently being trained on how to service the DPF.

what kind of temps is the DPF going to see when it is <5 degrees like this morning and I was blowing smoke for 15 miles. I do not think the DPF is going to get hot enought up here in Mi in the winter, and I hope you new guys who go into regren up here can do it, with out going to limp

what kind of temps is the DPF going to see when it is <5 degrees like this morning and I was blowing smoke for 15 miles. I do not think the DPF is going to get hot enought up here in Mi in the winter, and I hope you new guys who go into regren up here can do it, with out going to limp

When a regen is required, the DPF will get hot enough, regen has been tested at ambient temps as low as -40F. The regen happened and the DPF was effectively cleaned with no problems.

what kind of temps is the DPF going to see when it is <5 degrees like this morning and I was blowing smoke for 15 miles. I do not think the DPF is going to get hot enought up here in Mi in the winter, and I hope you new guys who go into regren up here can do it, with out going to limp
It wont be a problem because it takes raw diesel and injects it into the dpf (low mpg(will do this aprox 1 time per tank). ITll cook that doesnt worry me. I know we got a few service trucks too at work pto runs air compressor and crane alot of times the truck pto engaged work on it run an impact for few seconds and may sit another 1/2 hour before "idling up" again. You want me to walk over and shut the truck off all the time???

The ash build up will be minimal, the wrong fuel will not cause excessive ash, and even the wrong oil will not impact the amount of ash.
I do feel your very very wrong w/taht statement. It may not clog them up immediatly but dont fool yourself and think you can burn higher sulfer fuel or put ci4 in it ive read many articles that say ci 4 or is higher a sh content that builds up your dpf. What about when these trucks get 20 yeras old?????? We got some old old old 1985 (22 years old) trucks that have been in accidents, (front end all smashed up), tie rods brakes etc etc that arent suitable for the road, the trucks either get drug or driven very slowly around the gravel pit and are our in pit service trucks. They never get near 30mph (pry fall apart if they did) , at this point trucks are junk?????? I mean I know the trucks are junk but serve that purpose. THe way these dpf's are tied into the computers I dont think its as easy as saying the truck doesnt get used on the road, sticktly a "site" vehcle take it off. AAAHHH waht happened to the good old days

I did not say it was a good thing to use the wrong fuel, nor, do I recommending using it. What I met to say is that the wrong fuel will NOT cause ash build up, it will degrade the DOC and DPF and then they will have to be replaced.

I was not saying use the wrong oil, I am saying use API CJ-4 engine oil to help slow down the ash build up. But, if you happen to use the wrong oil once in while, no harm will be done. All of the development work on the DPF was done with API CI 4 engine oil with no excessive ash loading as a result. So, if the wrong is used consistently, then yes, the DPF will build up ash sooner. It may take 80-90K miles instead of 120K to see the affects of using the wrong oil.

So any diesel techs out there work for gm they can go into work tomorrow and ask. Tell them you got a buddy who hauls 100,000 miles per year so will be needing a cleaing very soon after he buys it and want to know what hell have to do since his business depends on it.

So any diesel techs out there work for gm they can go into work tomorrow and ask. Tell them you got a buddy who hauls 100,000 miles per year so will be needing a cleaing very soon after he buys it and want to know what hell have to do since his business depends on it.

Regeneration will happen at 30 MPH, even with the engine at an idle and in gear.

Could you provide additional explanation here? How can the truck be going 30 MPH if the engine is at an idle?

This is a real issue for me. During the winter, the truck will see most of its use as a daily driver. This results in mostly commuting in stop and go traffic. As such, I will burn a tank of fuel each week, but will most likely not experience a period of remaining over 30 MPH for 20 minutes during that time. Does this mean that I will need to plan on going out for a 20-30 minute drive one night a week after rush hour traffic has dissipated the entire time I own this truck?

[quote=Dmaxpower2;1555463;]There will be a procedure for removing the ash, but,it's not available as of today. The DPF is serviceable, the special tools needed to clean the DPF are very expensive, the tool is large and the cost is around 10K. You don't have to worry about the ash for 120k miles. The ash build up will be minimal, the wrong fuel will not cause excessive ash, and even the wrong oil will not impact the amount of ash.

The engine burning too much oil is the main factor in ash accumulation.


you sound confident of this I work at a dealership and so far I have found no info about cleaning ash or any training about it. im sure an IDL will soon be out for the engine which may cover this topic but havent seen it yet.

Could you provide additional explanation here? How can the truck be going 30 MPH if the engine is at an idle?

This is a real issue for me. During the winter, the truck will see most of its use as a daily driver. This results in mostly commuting in stop and go traffic. As such, I will burn a tank of fuel each week, but will most likely not experience a period of remaining over 30 MPH for 20 minutes during that time. Does this mean that I will need to plan on going out for a 20-30 minute drive one night a week after rush hour traffic has dissipated the entire time I own this truck?

"Regeneration will happen at 30 MPH, even with the engine at an idle and in gear."

I am sorry if the sentence did make sense.

I will state it this way- DPF Regeneration will occur at 30 MPH. If you are in an active regeneration at 30MPH and have to come to a stop regeneration will still be going on as long as the vehicle is left in gear. Once you take it out of gear, regeneration will stop. If you stop the vehicle during a regeneration event, the same regeneration event will continue were it left off, until it completes.

Ex. A regen activated during the coarse of you driving the vehicle, the regen event takes appox 20 minutes, but it was only 5 minutes into the regen event. Now, you get home and park the vehicle overnight, the next time you drive the vehicle and the engine coolant temp warms up to 50C (122F) the regeneration event will continue for another 15 minutes.

During the winter, the truck will see most of its use as a daily driver. This results in mostly commuting in stop and go traffic. As such, I will burn a tank of fuel each week, but will most likely not experience a period of remaining over 30 MPH for 20 minutes during that time. Does this mean that I will need to plan on going out for a 20-30 minute drive one night a week after rush hour traffic has dissipated the entire time I own this truck?

I think so, you will know for sure that you have to take action once the Clean Exhaust Filter indicator illuminates OR the Clean Exhaust Filter message appears on the DIC. If you sustained 30 MPH for any length of time and the coolant temp is over 50C the ECM will command a regen, and the filter is being cleaned.

The engine burning too much oil is the main factor in ash accumulation.

The oil is what creates the ash in the DPF, too much oil burning means more ash accumaltion in the DPF. A good running engine, with normal oil consumption and the proper CJ -4 oil being used, should last 120K before an ash cleaning.

Thanks for the info Dmaxpower2. This is very useful. This is probably not as significant of an issue as I was first thinking. It sounds like the regeneration will occur without too many issues unless the vehicle is being used as a grocery-getter with a lot of short trips lasting 5 or 10 minutes. Great excuse to not let the wife drive the new truck - "Honey, all of your short trips to soccer practice and dance class will not regenerate the truck. Sorry."

I posted this question on our gm forum here are the responses:


bertera Posted: Jan 29 2007, 05:14 AM


New Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 6610
Joined: 21-October 05



I have a friend who wants a new diesel but he is worried about the new DPF in the exhaust. he could easily go 75 to 100k in a year. I know that regen will clean excess soot from the dpf but what and how will the ash produced be removed. apparently cat has some very expensive equipment for cleaning ash out. what is the story with ours. will it be able or even need to be cleaned? or will it need replacement over time? any info would be appreciated.

1ton Posted: Jan 29 2007, 05:41 AM


Junior Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 8950
Joined: 21-June 06



I think if its in warmer climates and highway driven,it will not be much of an issue.

Up North though....and used it for frequent short trips,I would not touch it for a year or so until wee see what they are like.


--------------------



JEEP450 Posted: Jan 29 2007, 06:17 AM


Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 2329
Joined: 9-May 03



I think the only problem would be if it never got to run the regeneration mode. That kind of driving I don't think it would be a problem.


--------------------

Patrick
Memphis
N.A.D.C. grad 2001 master craftsman award
ASE Master Auto Technician
L1 Automobile Advanced Engine Performance Specialist
X1 Exhaust System Specialist

bobmatthews Posted: Jan 29 2007, 10:32 AM


New Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 7585
Joined: 24-January 06



I think it's called a particulate filter in the exhaust much like a muffler that collects the soot. The new truck should only run the low sulfer 5ppm diesel fuel in these trucks or the filter will stop-up faster. THE DPFE, much like what FORD uses for there EGR systems, GM will use it to determine exhaust back pressure. Then as the PCM determinse that exhaust pressure is hi by the DPFE sensor the fuel delivery will be alterd, rich condition, turbo vane position change and some other things also to increase exhaust temerature which will clean any soot build up.
I think the exhaust temp. can get over 800 degrees F.

No tall dry grass feilds. The cleaning process will run without the customer ever noticing. cool huh?




--------------------

17 year GM tech
Gastonia,N.C.
Gastonia, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, and Isuzu.


bertera Posted: Jan 29 2007, 11:23 AM


New Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 6610
Joined: 21-October 05



I know how it works. I want to know what we are going to be doing with the ash buildup in the DPF. there has to be some kind of byproduct of the regeneration process.

JEEP450 Posted: Jan 29 2007, 12:10 PM


Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 2329
Joined: 9-May 03



No it is suppose to burn everything off as ash and blow it out the tailpipe. It is not suppose to be something you have to service unless it never goes into the regeneration process.


--------------------

Patrick
Memphis
N.A.D.C. grad 2001 master craftsman award
ASE Master Auto Technician
L1 Automobile Advanced Engine Performance Specialist
X1 Exhaust System Specialist

bobmatthews Posted: Jan 29 2007, 12:22 PM


New Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 7585
Joined: 24-January 06



My bad!


--------------------

17 year GM tech
Gastonia,N.C.
Gastonia, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, and Isuzu.


1ton Posted: Jan 29 2007, 12:31 PM


Junior Member


Group: Members
Member No.: 8950
Joined: 21-June 06



No,it WILL require a new one,eventually..the video does not shy from that..However,with plenty of regeneration modes,it will be quite some time.


--------------------




1 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
1 Members: bertera
« Next Oldest | Chevy Truck | Next Newest »

I will try to help answer some your questions, but first I’m going say I’m happy you’re considering a 07 LMM. The next thing the periodic maintenance you’re mentioning is for cleaning the ash out of the DPF. You are correct in the cost of the cleaning machine, it’s cost is somewhere around 10K. Now, like you stated the ash-cleaning interval should be around 120K, under the conditions that your engine does not burn excessive oil and the correct CJ-4 oil is used.

The regens you mention only clean the soot or unburned HC, they do not take care of the ash. The ash comes from oil that is a natural by produce of diesel combustion.

Now, running the off road fuel (higher sulfur content fuel) will damage the DOC and DPF, it will cause the precious metals to degrade, thus their efficiency will degrade and they will need replacement not cleaning.

The reason the dealers don’t know about the maintenance is because it’s still under the final stages of development. We hope that the dealers will have a cleaning procedure to remove the ash as soon as possible. What is likely to happen is the high volume dealers will get a cleaning machine and the smaller dealers will have to send the filter to the higher volume dealers for cleaning, both the soot and ash have to be collected and safely disposed of since they are both hazardous materials.

I know California has decided that it is hazardous, but I still don't understand how in the heck an inert steril ash can be hazerdous? As far as I know there only 2-3 states that have decided that the ash is hazardous. Naturally California would be one of them.:nono:

There is also talk about an exchange program at some point in time, but it will be awhile before anyone needs to worry about that. As far as cleaning them out, the "machine" that has been used by Japan for the past 2 years is nothing more than a 55 gallon barrell with an air valve at the top. It simply blows the air back against the direction of the exhaust in bursts. The $10K maching SPX is pushing has some electronics on it that control the air blasts, but it is still basically just blowing the ash back through the element.

Don't kid yourselves, it is NOT as hard as some people make it out to be. This is not rocket science.

I gotta say that this is a pretty darn interesting topic as are many of them here... But I'm damn glad I have an '06 LBZ! I LOVE this truck and I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about a DPF for years to come...

Still, it's very interesting and I'll bet the sharp members here will be all over it as fast as or faster than the techs. That's what I like about this site!

I know California has decided that it is hazardous, but I still don't understand how in the heck an inert steril ash can be hazerdous? As far as I know there only 2-3 states that have decided that the ash is hazardous. Naturally California would be one of them.:nono:

There is also talk about an exchange program at some point in time, but it will be awhile before anyone needs to worry about that. As far as cleaning them out, the "machine" that has been used by Japan for the past 2 years is nothing more than a 55 gallon barrell with an air valve at the top. It simply blows the air back against the direction of the exhaust in bursts. The $10K maching SPX is pushing has some electronics on it that control the air blasts, but it is still basically just blowing the ash back through the element.

Don't kid yourselves, it is NOT as hard as some people make it out to be. This is not rocket science.


Damn, Dirt Dog, I think I know you, :lol:
You are right ON :thumb:
Unfortunate, we can't use the procedure that is used in Japan. The DPF folks think it will harm the wash coat.

If the SPX machine is used, the DPF will have to be service regenerated before being put in that monster machine too.

Currently it does look like the exchange program, don't know for sure.

Thank's for your input.

What we need to do is figure out how to bypass it and/or remove it completelly!

just because it controls emmisions doesnt mean it causes less power. and tamperimg with such devices is technically illeagal.

I think we can say with certainty that it will cause worse mileage. It's not inconceivable that it would cause a loss in power either since we're talking about a filter device in your exhaust stream.

but the advertised torque and HP for the lmm is higher than any other producrtion STOCK dmax

imagine how much better it could be without the buttplug in the exhaust!

So no one KNOWS if its gonna be an exchange program or you have to take it to a stealer w/a machine (ie there will be a dealer w/in 50 miles of your area you ahve to take it too? ) or waht?

why do you guys have to call us stealers.. do you call your furnace repair guy a theif?? we are out to make a living just like the rest of you.

Its just like anything else, many bad apples in your profession have left a very very bad taste in our (consumers) mouth's. Many have gave us bs stories why our truck doesnt qualify for warrenty. OUr truck goes in for say an injector problem under warrenty (the 5 year one) and now 6 other things like the ac etc dont work)(true story, buddys truck went in for injecotrs at biggers chevrolet in elgin, came out w/about 6 other problems (coincedental????), or shady selling practices etc etc. Its like ANY other profession, there are some bad apples out there and there are some out ther who do an excellent HONEST job. However, there have been enough of them out there that have stuck it to us you guys got that nickname.

Fair enough

Humm, I have been reading this tread and find it very interestng. I'm really torn between getting the 07 Classic LBZ are waitng until the LMM comes out.

I am a rancher and spend a great deal of time in pastures with weeds,grass and other things that are flamable. I have to really watch the truck I have now(gas 6.0 LT ) due to setting grass on fire. I also have to drive between 80-120 miles per day and can see where milage could be reduced with the LMM. I don't really have the time to set around and worry about regne and so on. Looks like I"ll be going for the LBZ unless I see something to change my mind.

Humm, I have been reading this tread and find it very interestng. I'm really torn between getting the 07 Classic LBZ are waitng until the LMM comes out.

I am a rancher and spend a great deal of time in pastures with weeds,grass and other things that are flamable. I have to really watch the truck I have now(gas 6.0 LT ) due to setting grass on fire. I also have to drive between 80-120 miles per day and can see where milage could be reduced with the LMM. I don't really have the time to set around and worry about regne and so on. Looks like I"ll be going for the LBZ unless I see something to change my mind.
i believe the high egts are only during filter cleaning,gm or any manufacturer woundnt put out a vehicle that would start fires.imagine the liability.if you drive an lmm as i have i think your mind will be made up

Anybody remember the original catalytic convertors that started all the fires because they got so hot? FALSE- only lack of maintenance
The new ones will not either-quit getting upset. The new smog laws are coming-and are here. They can now impound your vehicle and fine you for tampering-disconnecting-modifying-deleting.

Humm, I have been reading this tread and find it very interestng. I'm really torn between getting the 07 Classic LBZ are waitng until the LMM comes out.

I am a rancher and spend a great deal of time in pastures with weeds,grass and other things that are flamable. I have to really watch the truck I have now(gas 6.0 LT ) due to setting grass on fire. I also have to drive between 80-120 miles per day and can see where milage could be reduced with the LMM. I don't really have the time to set around and worry about regne and so on. Looks like I"ll be going for the LBZ unless I see something to change my mind.

and it will only happen at speeds above 30mph

Man reading all about the emissions crap gives me a headache, and just reaffirms my original decision. Glad I bought my 07 Classic.

Based on reading this post I think a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion. Seems like the DPF will pretty much take care of itself. I'm not worried with 100k warranty.

I'm glad I'm waiting for my LMM Sierra with all the improvements in the GMT900 and did not jump at getting a classic. Better interior, steering, ride, looks, and power.

Based on reading this post I think a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion. Seems like the DPF will pretty much take care of itself. I'm not worried with 100k warranty.

I'm glad I'm waiting for my LMM Sierra with all the improvements in the GMT900 and did not jump at getting a classic. Better interior, steering, ride, looks, and power.

How do you figure better ride and power, the GMT has the same suspension as the Classics on the HD models, and as for the more power it is only 5 hp, nothing earth shattering. Besides the LMM is basically the LBZ with the emissions crap. I smell what GM did in the early 70's with the 454, in 70 the LS5 had 360 Hp and 10.25 to 1 compression, in 71 the same engine dropped in compression but went up in HP by 5 Hp. sound familiar. Engines used the same parts. I'll stick with my LBZ minus the supposed self cleaning DPF, can't wait for that part to not function properly and see what happens.
Steve

How do you figure better ride and power, the GMT has the same suspension as the Classics on the HD models, and as for the more power it is only 5 hp, nothing earth shattering. Besides the LMM is basically the LBZ with the emissions crap. I smell what GM did in the early 70's with the 454, in 70 the LS5 had 360 Hp and 10.25 to 1 compression, in 71 the same engine dropped in compression but went up in HP by 5 Hp. sound familiar. Engines used the same parts. I'll stick with my LBZ minus the supposed self cleaning DPF, can't wait for that part to not function properly and see what happens.
Steve

Have you driven a HD GMT900? Sounds like you have not. They steer and ride better than 800's. Plus they have less wind noise, less road noise. Go and drive one.

The LMM is rated at 365 and 665 so that is really 15 hp and 15 tq over the lbz right?

I don't think the dpf will be an issue. We'll see.

NO the LBZ is rated at 360, don't care to drive one,have you? Just going by what I have read as far as the suspension. What ever floats your boat and works for you, that is why this country is so great, freedom of speech and choice. Good luck with your new truck, after all how bad can it be, it is a GM !!!
Steve

Yes I drove the 900 and 800 back to back. Both are damn fine trucks and great pulling machines.

Hope the DFP is no PITA, time will tell.

Go GM !!!

Have you driven a HD GMT900? Sounds like you have not. They steer and ride better than 800's.

take the body off and the -900's and -800's are identical.;)

the perceived smoothness is most likely because the body is much better insulated, tighter, and perhaps different body mounts.

MOSTLY the same. The 900's do have a newer steering box (still recip ball) that improves center feel and tracking. This has been mentioned in the HD press releases. I noticed this on the intestate during a test drive.

I think the new body tolerances, improved areodynamics and insulation have a positive effect on the overall cabin feel of the 900's (especially on the interstate)

In either case the 800 or 900 with Duramax are fantastic pulling rigs. But I am preaching to the choir here aren't I?

I think that everyone is worrying about nothing. We all know that GM has always stood by some quality products, as well as some that weren't. But needless to say, out of the Big 3 they were the only ones that didn't make any huge changes, i.e. up the motor size, add another turbo, like the others Dodge and Fords. With that, I think that the engineers know how to up that motor every year, just as people on here have learn through EFI live. Its no different, except GM has the money to invest in research. So technically I think they change some parameters added the ceramic muffler (DPF) and gave it more horsepower and torque just to make us feel better about all this emissions, end of the world liberal crap. Im sticking to original decision and buying the LMM, cause I know that while Im cruising blowing hot ash out the back, ford and dodge will be waiting on the side for a tow truck.

MOSTLY the same. The 900's do have a newer steering box (still recip ball) that improves center feel and tracking. This has been mentioned in the HD press releases. I noticed this on the intestate during a test drive.

I think the new body tolerances, improved areodynamics and insulation have a positive effect on the overall cabin feel of the 900's (especially on the interstate)

In either case the 800 or 900 with Duramax are fantastic pulling rigs. But I am preaching to the choir here aren't I?

The x members are all different from the cab back. I took some pics of them and you can see the difference between an 800 and 900. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139084.

There are also some pics of the DPF and the new tip (for cab&chassis trucks. IT'S WAY BIGGER ON THOSE)

I'm not saying they are stronger or "very" different. but some changes/improvements were made.