GM may lose the battle, have you guys seen the 08 Ford Super Duty. Its one good looking ride. What the heck was chevy thinking when the designed the that front end. If Ford gets the 6.4 right and it tows and gets decent mileage that things going sell like hot cakes. Just my opinion of course. Plus the new F450 pick up that just spanks gm in the tow ratings. Come on GM get you heads out of your butts and give us a better looking truck with a higher tow rating!!

GMC looks good also. I'm a Ford guy and would look long and hard at the GMC for my next truck. Wouldn't pee on that new Chevy. What a fugly beast. My 2 cents.

900 chassis is completely carryover from the 800. It is just a new body with some minor changes to meet all the government regs. If you look at the rollout of HDs from all the manufactures, the new HDs are typically 2-3 years after LDs. I would expect a new chassis for GM within the next 3 years. 900 is still a damn good truck. Ford will have some towing and GVW advantages until a new chassis is created.

still 4 head bolts per cylinder, and 42psi of boost stock....thanks but no thanks Ford....

GM may lose the battle, have you guys seen the 08 Ford Super Duty. Its one good looking ride. What the heck was chevy thinking when the designed the that front end. If Ford gets the 6.4 right and it tows and gets decent mileage that things going sell like hot cakes. Just my opinion of course. Plus the new F450 pick up that just spanks gm in the tow ratings. Come on GM get you heads out of your butts and give us a better looking truck with a higher tow rating!!

Go get one. "But as for me and my house we will drive chevy's"

if thats all you worry about it the bumper so be it, if the 6.4 is anything like the 6.0 when it came out good luck that will be the end to ford, as for the twin turbos good luck as well , if CAT cant make it work correctly i doubt IHC will

I think Ford will have the same problems with this as they did with the 6.0 if not more. The new HD's interior is much better and I like the front end other than the bumper. I would guess in the higher line such as the LTZ there won't be as much chrome on the front bumper, just like it is with the 07 LD's.

I want a new diesel truck. My 02 Chevy 2500HD CC LB SRW 8.1 gasser has a payload that is fine for my 5ver pin weight but uses air bags and higher E-rated tires to help compensate for my 3200# camper (used a couple times a year). It's overweight yes, but it has been managable. The new 3500HD with the heavier LMM in SRW CC LB and LTZ trim leaves me with only 2560# left in payload. With no desire for duallies, tell me if I could use air bags on the 3500 SRW and/or springs to compensate or should I look at a new 08 F350 6.4L that has 3400#s in payload for the Lariat SRW trim, but has a much less proven powertrain IMO. I realize I will be overweight in the 3500 SRW, but what would you do if you had these two truck choices? I'm hoping I can make the 3500 Dmax SRW work...

Thanks.

you can make it work if you are doing it now and don't mind it will be fine IMO but i know there are some out there that are not for it but if you know what you are doing and know the risk you take then go for it i would take the proven engine over looks any day

I have never liked the look of the Ford......... Until seeing the 2008. And I have nothing but GMC's for 20 years
Navistar is an excellent engine. And Ford knows what size wheels to use and nice large wheel wells.

I drove a 99SD then bought a 04HD now I have a 06HD, I loved my SD only thing ever went wrong was a wheel speed sensor and that truck had 150k
When I went shopping for a new truck I could not get another ford $$$$ since I get the GM discount and the last truck it saved me >10K from the sticker (45k) ,out the door 35K with taxes and tags, I love the looks of the ford but $$$$$ talks. If ford wanted me to drive their product show me THE MONEY, intill that happens I'll drive GM

All I can say is, You Guy's who think the furd SUPER DooDoo looks good need GLASSES. -:t I admit the Chevy front bumper looks BAD, but the rest of the truck isn't to bad and the GMC LOOKS AWSOME. But the furd is plain UGLY.

Seriously the Ford looks like it has Down Syndrome. And Ben hit the nail on the head about the head bolts.

Nick

Unless the super pooper handles better comparably than the half ton furds I want nothing to do with one.

I do like the looks of the new 08 ford. They had a f-450 at the auto show and it was niiiiice.

With that said, I like the looks of the new chevy's and gmc's better, especially the inside.

-Chris

still 4 head bolts per cylinder, and 42psi of boost stock....thanks but no thanks Ford....
Yeah, but the good news is they increased the size of those 4 head bolts, per cylinder, again, for the 3rd time since the 6.0 first came out. Maybe this time they'll be big enough to hold the heads down, maybe.:rolleyes:

I don't like to knock Ford (my '95, and the '86 before that, have been excellent trucks), but:

I'll pass on 4 bolts per cylinder. They (IH/Ford) are doing the same d&^n thing as was done w/ the 385 series gas motors (429 & 460). Bigger bolts, more torque -- all you do distort the crap out of the bores and deck -- heads still jumped around. And that's for CR's only in the 12 range. This was years ago; maybe they have the 460's 'fixed' by now (head gaskets, stiffer blockes and heads?), I don't know.

I'll remain skeptical, and hold onto my $, until proven wrong, thanks.

Bill

I'm with alot of people about the likeliness of the 6.4 being another mistake. Ford does the same thing some of their gas motors. As for the f450 it seems to me that ford is scared of losing to much ground in the HD wars and had to bring a bigger truck to a 1 ton truck fight. Ford must be telling themselves something great for them to be able to sleep on this at night.......

Both the Ford and Chevy are going to have to grow on me. I think they will both look acceptable lifted however. Personally I would trust the Duramax long before I would roll the dice with the new 6.4.

A face only a Mother could love.:D


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/19-2008-ford-super-duty-f-250-350-4.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/19-2008-ford-super-duty-f-250-350-4.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Not sure this is much better.:rolleyes:


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/07SilveradoHD12.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/07SilveradoHD12.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

Seriously the Ford looks like it has Down Syndrome.
Go get one. "But as for me and my house we will drive chevy's"
:boxing:

Both the Ford and Chevy are going to have to grow on me. I think they will both look acceptable lifted however. Personally I would trust the Duramax long before I would roll the dice with the new 6.4.

A face only a Mother could love.:D




http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/19-2008-ford-super-duty-f-250-350-4.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/19-2008-ford-super-duty-f-250-350-4.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Not sure this is much better.:rolleyes:




http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/07SilveradoHD12.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/PerformanceWest/07SilveradoHD12.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



Talk about FUGLY, that new -:t FORD is Hideous!!! -:t

Im definately getting the new 07 GMC Sierra HD, but OMG, I would take the New Chevy HD with a Duramax in a heartbeat over that FUGLY FUGLY 08 Super Ugly.

GM may lose the battle, have you guys seen the 08 Ford Super Duty. Its one good looking ride. What the heck was chevy thinking when the designed the that front end. If Ford gets the 6.4 right and it tows and gets decent mileage that things going sell like hot cakes. Just my opinion of course. Plus the new F450 pick up that just spanks gm in the tow ratings. Come on GM get you heads out of your butts and give us a better looking truck with a higher tow rating!!

WHile I agree with you that the new Chevy Hd is not the greatest looking truck theyve done,... the Ford is definately worse. At least with the new Chevy HD, if you had a painted front bumper, it would look much better and closer looking to the 1500 Chevy. As far as the new ford goes, there isnt much help for that one.

That new ford is just plain frikken...

Ill let the photo do the talking-








http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5841/2006texasstatefair025le4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)








New 07 Chevy with painted front bumper...




http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3514/2007silveradopk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



A Much MUCH Better looking truck!
:chevy: :saluteusa:

As long as I live all Fords will by ugly. I think you ford lovers are at the wrong web site.... just my 2 cents...

just curious...how many headbolts per cylinder on a duramax?

Wow you guys found some pretty ugly pics of the ford, the one I saw was the f450 dually. Thought it looked good, but some of the others, well I guess not so good. My point was not to bash GM, I am a very happy owner and will likely continue to be. I just think GM needs to step it and give us some more capacity, and maybe another 3500hd type vehicle. I would like more capacity, but the 4500 with its issues is not an option for me. Anyway here is the pic I saw. The second pic is of a new hybrid hauler I saw a pic of:rolleyes:.

Wow you guys found some pretty ugly pics of the ford, the one I saw was the f450 dually. Thought it looked good, but some of the others, well I guess not so good. My point was not to bash GM, I am a very happy owner and will likely continue to be. I just think GM needs to step it and give us some more capacity, and maybe another 3500hd type vehicle. I would like more capacity, but the 4500 with its issues is not an option for me. Anyway here is the pic I saw. The second pic is of a new hybrid hauler I saw a pic of:rolleyes:.

I also agree with you i love the looks of DRW pictured like to see a chevy next to it and then I will make my decision on the best looking. IMO I like the old chevy front end pre 03-04 It looks bad to the bone in the HD verson

This is just wrong on so many levels!:D

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32712&d=1169817953

I agree with you gmcjoe I just ordered 07 lmm in black and I'm planning to take the bumper off as soon as i get it and get them powder coated gloss black should be nice sold my 06 lbz to buy it I hope no regrets with the emmisions Talk about FUGLY, that new -:t FORD is Hideous!!! -:t

Im definately getting the new 07 GMC Sierra HD, but OMG, I would take the New Chevy HD with a Duramax in a heartbeat over that FUGLY FUGLY 08 Super Ugly.

Personnally, I'm amazed that anyone would buy the Chevy when you can get the same drivetrain in a GMC. I just don't get it. To each his own.

is it possible to put a gmc bumper on the chevy. I've seen a bunch of the 1/2 tonnes, and they've got the same bumper as the hd's are going to have but painted. not too bad in person, but someone that designs the chevy's needs to be shot(ok, let's just fire them) can't wait to see one in person.

The tractor is to drive when the car breaks down. :D The furd super doo doo looks like a droopy face hound dog. -:t

is it possible to put a gmc bumper on the chevy. I've seen a bunch of the 1/2 tonnes, and they've got the same bumper as the hd's are going to have but painted. not too bad in person, but someone that designs the chevy's needs to be shot(ok, let's just fire them) can't wait to see one in person.

After looking at both the GMC and Chevy HD bumbers it appears there are to many differences to make the swap.

Also the Chev HD and 1/2 ton bumpers are actually different. They are styled the same but the HD bumpers are deeper to accomidate the taller HD frame. I agree the designer needs his head examined, but I think a bit of paint would work wonders.

I agree the designer needs his head examined, but I think a bit of paint would work wonders.



:agreed:

I think there both ugly. Ford still dont have a ll the bugs worked out imo (but we will see) and no 6spd allison

Of the three, I would go GMC. I just can't get used to the new Ford. The Chevy is even uglier.

Of the three, I would go GMC. I just can't get used to the new Ford. The Chevy is even uglier.

:exactly:I love the GMC, always have. If the Chev is dressed up nicely, it wounld look ok, but the Ford :ThrowUp:

As bad as the exterior of the Furd is, the interior is completely hideous!! It's such a jumble of different shapes it gave me a headache when I looked at it!!

Ford also gets the higher tow ratings with 4:33 rears. That coupled with a 5spd auto and 68mph yields around 2400-2600rpm before it shifts out of over drive. A guy we met camping had a ford 550 two wheel drive similar set-up and was averaging 6-9mpg towing and 12-13mpg hwy. With diesel prices I'll stick with my six speed auto and 3.73 and measily 19-20hwy and 10-11mpg towing :D

As bad as the exterior of the Furd is, the interior is completely hideous!! It's such a jumble of different shapes it gave me a headache when I looked at it!!




Youre right. The new interior of the Fords does look pretty ugly. I definately wouldnt wanna get stuck driving a truck that looks that bad in the front, and just as bad in tha cab (if not worse!)

:exactly:I love the GMC, always have. If the Chev is dressed up nicely, it wounld look ok, but the Ford :ThrowUp:


Perfectly said Boss! :thumb:

Yeah, but the good news is they increased the size of those 4 head bolts, per cylinder, again, for the 3rd time since the 6.0 first came out. Maybe this time they'll be big enough to hold the heads down, maybe.:rolleyes:


I am not sure where you got this incorrect info but International never increased the size of the headbolts on the 6.0. Most would realize this beings how you would have to either replace the block or machine the heads along with the block to accept the new bolts. International did revise the cylinder head configuration to accept the larger 14 mm boltss used in the 6.4 but never drilled the heads to accept these, otherwise the heads would need to be bushed to recieve a proper torque with the smaller 12mm bolt.

Gents,

Not pertinent to the discussion, but I want to correct a statement I made above.

It looks like I was wrong about Ford increasing the head bolt diameter (to 5/8") on their 385 series race engines to improve head gasket retention. I could have sworn I either heard such from other racers, or read about it somewhere. But I searched thru all my old SVO catalogs and other Ford literature over the weekend and found no mention of it. At that time (mid 80's), those engines were indeed prone to cylinder wall and deck distortion problems.

Regardless, I'm still very skeptical of the durability of a turbo-diesel w/ only 4 head bolts/studs per cylinder.

Bill

still 4 head bolts per cylinder, and 42psi of boost stock....thanks but no thanks Ford....


:agreed:

:agreed:

Your better off with your 7psi GMTRUCKS. :D

I really like the front end of the new gmc. I wonder if it would be possible to direct swap the front end onto an 06???

Ok i find it a lil funny that ford made the front bumper a step so you can work under the hood. My opinion it is more of a kick in the face to them, considering how often a 6.0l broke down. Not tryin to offend anyone, just funny.

They could have just made the front cap flip foreward like a commercial truck:D
While you have my cab lifted can you go ahead and shake out the french fries:rolleyes:

Ford does have one cool thing, I really like the power extend/retract tow mirrors. Considering how long it took GM to give us a real tow mirror, we should expect to see that feature on our trucks sometime around 2014. Oh well, at least GM's don't sound like parts are about to rattle right off the motor.

i wish the entire front end on the gmc was painted body color, i hate chrome.

Now this is UGLY, looks better in the last pic I think. Least the XLT and up look better. As for the new ford motor, no thanks. They finnaly did something different with the interior, I like the looks of it in a pic I saw but that may change when I see it in person. The new chevy I kind of like but still not impressed, yea the GMC looks alot better. I still like the GM better.

I will give ford credit,their factory tire option of 275/65/20, a 34 inch tire is a nice option. It looks to me like anything bigger than a 265/75/16 will again be rubbing on the bumper or the rear wheel well. I am a GM loyal but I am getting tired of big trucks that are stuck with little tires. I know you can always lift it or cut it or put aftermarket this and that on it. I just wish you could bolt some 33inch tires to it and go.

[quote=Motohead;1569449;]I will give ford credit,their factory tire option of 275/65/20, a 34 inch tire is a nice option. It looks to me like anything bigger than a 265/75/16 will again be rubbing on the bumper or the rear wheel well. I am a GM loyal but I am getting tired of big trucks that are stuck with little tires. I know you can always lift it or cut it or put aftermarket this and that on it.


x2

duramax diesel hit the nail right on the head with the furd, def has down syndrome. headlights are to low with to much of the lip on the hood showing

duramax diesel hit the nail right on the head with the furd, def has down syndrome. headlights are to low with to much of the lip on the hood showing

Ford had a great thing going with the styling of the '97 - '07 SD's, especailly the '05 - '07's when they got better bumpers & some distance between the bumper & headlights that made them look totally awesome. But they killed it with the '08's. Even with the headlights flipped they still don't look right. Maybe the Ford engineers were out partying with the Chevy engineers the night they came up with these bizarre designs. Guess the GMC engineers were the ones who didn't drink & design :D

I agree with ranger22, the ford mirrors have some great options. They do not look so great, but power fold! That is a great option for squeezing in tight spots and not having to exit the truck to do it. I would much rather have power fold than power extend. Are you listening GMC engineers? As for looks I still like the look of my '03 the best. I guess the new stuff will have to grow on me.

What about noise are the new Ford 6.4's still rattle boxes like the 6.0's? I think I would prefer the rumble of the old 7.3's over the 6.0, at least they sound strong and are reliable. I cannot believe how quiet my buddies new LBZ is! Thumbs up on that GM engineers.

Ford had a great thing going with the styling of the '97 - '07 SD's, especailly the '05 - '07's when they got better bumpers & some distance between the bumper & headlights that made them look totally awesome. But they killed it with the '08's. Even with the headlights flipped they still don't look right. Maybe the Ford engineers were out partying with the Chevy engineers the night they came up with these bizarre designs. Guess the GMC engineers were the ones who didn't drink & design :D

RoadShark it makes since you like the new GMCs, the 1500's I've seen on the road look just like the '05 - '07 furd SDs....

I'm glad I have my '02 w/ the power bump hood...best looking truck of the bunch!

Flame away! :weld:

MaxRock

I agree with ranger22, the ford mirrors have some great options. They do not look so great, but power fold! That is a great option for squeezing in tight spots and not having to exit the truck to do it. I would much rather have power fold than power extend. Are you listening GMC engineers? As for looks I still like the look of my '03 the best. I guess the new stuff will have to grow on me.



They are not extended tow mirrors, but the regular mirrors fold on my '05 Dmax-sub. Is that not an option on the GM tow mirrors? If not, maybe it could be added on. Of course, BCU computer would need reprogramming.

Today I laid eyes on a new SUPER DUTY and a GMT900 for the first time. The ford looks worse than the pictures on this site would imply, and the Chevy looks much better. The elephant ears are not as bold in real life as they are in pictures and the rest of the truck looks like a killer. The ford looked OK from the front wheels back but that grill is enough to make you-:t your guts out. My pick just for looks is Chevy hands down.

No need to flame, MaxRock, we all have our likes, dislikes & opinions etc. I agree the '02 HD's were about the best looking of the GMT800 generation, and wish they hadn't dropped it. The Avalance look eventually grew on me. But now I prefer the bold look of the new GMC's, and yes I like the look of the '05 - '07 SD's too, but that's just me...and a boat load of other folk :)
Sooner or later MaxRock, they're bound to start growin on ya, Soon they'll be everywhere, you'll be surrounded, you'll see the big bold grills no matter where you look, & then, finally you'll surrender & become one of us - you will be assemulated...resistance is futile... :D

RoadShark it makes since you like the new GMCs, the 1500's I've seen on the road look just like the '05 - '07 furd SDs....

I'm glad I have my '02 w/ the power bump hood...best looking truck of the bunch!

Flame away! :weld:

MaxRock

The GMC is the best looking of the trucks.
I trust the duramax engine much more than the 6.0 or 6.4.
The allison is the better trans.

But GM has major flaws with it's duallie's. Wimpy tires, 215 on a one ton is a sad joke.:eek:

Lets see, GM 3500 drw GVWR is 11400:o:
Ford 350 drw GVWR is 13000.:D

I sure wish GM could give me that in a pick up, not a Kodiak

The Chevy front end is gagable. The GMC is the way to go, I agree. The new Ford front end is nasty looking. (I'm older, so nasty means bad to me, not good)

yesterday we got the new ps in our shop and i must say it is sweet. The new gmc is really nice and feels like a mercedes benz inside, super tight and well engineered. But i think you must run a bank or be a executive to drive one! The ford feels sick to drive, I took it home for the night...:D
It starts right up and is very quiet! In fact i like how it starts and the interior again is sweet the hood has a nice bulge with a smaller windshield and new dash give the feeling that your driving a true machine, hats off to ford on this one!!!! sorry my .02 still love my LBZ but let's face it it ticks,tic,tic and clunks when turning! so they all need some work.
I just hate to see toyota taking over what we started. Long Live The American Truck

Hey Roadshark, I like the looks of the new Tahoe and AV, that was a step in the right direction. The older AV w/ the plastic cladding did finally grow on me. I know, every time a new body style comes out, it takes time. I almost -:twhen I saw the new '88 models the first time. Now they are the tried and true "classic" body lines.

Time heals all pain! :eek:

The new hd looks way different than the pictires on this site would appear. The real life ford looks worse. My Opinoin but my mission is to convert everyone else to agree with me.:bigglasse

Just looked at the new 6.4 powerstroke at my ford dealer and I actually think it is quieter than my duramax. Love the new mirrors Aux toggle switches. Not to sure about the interior, still love my duramax. $48,000 without leather or a few other options. Anyone else check them out?

Just drove past, didnt want to be seen too close to the thing.

New Fords are okay. I'm not sold on the 6.4 -> it's completely unproven and for $50k, I want a drivetrain that's proven. I think, Ford will sell quite a few of the F450s. There's a demand for that kind of payload in a pickup.

Personally, I'll stick with GM. I think, the dmax/ally combo is the best drivetrain.

Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!

Obviously a treasure trove of D-max knowledge.
Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!

Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!

Ford will also be the first in the dealership for warranty work....

This guy is the service writer for your local Furd Dealer! He's trying to get you all to convert so he can invalidate your warranties, hahaha:D

:D Your words don't mean nor probe anything time will show let's see who's going to end up in the service line first over and over for recalls and motors that won't startOpinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!

it would be nice if chevy would look at the ford alloy wheels on the dually 19.5" i know the engine might or may be a pile but it l;ooks like a truck not a tonka toy wake up gm please my 2 cents

I think they may actually get this engine right. They have been road testing the heck out of this truck for about a year now. The spy photos are already about year old. I think it's a pretty nice looking truck. When someone make transparent park lamp lense for the front, it will look even better. Aesthteically, I think the GMC comes very close, but the Chevy is the ugliest in the Big Three's line up. Just my opinion.

Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!

Ford can't get an engine right and Dodge can't get a tranny right. End of story.

Ford can't get an engine right and Dodge can't get a tranny right. End of story.


Pretty sure the 6.4L will be a different story.

GM may lose the battle, have you guys seen the 08 Ford Super Duty. Its one good looking ride. What the heck was chevy thinking when the designed the that front end. If Ford gets the 6.4 right and it tows and gets decent mileage that things going sell like hot cakes. Just my opinion of course. Plus the new F450 pick up that just spanks gm in the tow ratings. Come on GM get you heads out of your butts and give us a better looking truck with a higher tow rating!!

Splurge for a Kodiak. GM will still beay Ford on mileage. Have not seen a Ford yet that beats GM or Dodge on mileage, gas or diesel. Myself I would be scared of Ford purely because of their ability to stand behind their products. They will fight a large warranty claim tooth and nail. They don't have the budget to back the vehicles anymore.

Bottom line for me is that Ford is the only one offering a crew cab, long bed, 6-speed manual. As much as I like my '02 Duramax, when it comes time to replace it, it sure looks like I'll have no choice.

You guys who say the Chevy is ugly and then turn around and say the furd looks good need glasses! The Chevy needs a front bumper change, but the furd is just plain DOG UGLY!-:t

You guys who say the Chevy is ugly and then turn around and say the furd looks good need glasses! The Chevy needs a front bumper change, but the furd is just plain DOG UGLY!-:t


Opinions MM. It's basically Chevy guys saying Ford's look butt ugly and Ford guys saying Chevy's look ridiculous. This conversation is going no where. Just buy what you like and leave it at that. There is no greater truck out of the three.


*last 2 lines not aims just towards you*

just curious...how many headbolts per cylinder on a duramax?


...and what does that mean in terms of performance or longevity?

You're right man people should just buy what they like and be happy with it.;) Opinions MM. It's basically Chevy guys saying Ford's look butt ugly and Ford guys saying Chevy's look ridiculous. This conversation is going no where. Just buy what you like and leave it at that. There is no greater truck out of the three.


*last 2 lines not aims just towards you*

Splurge for a Kodiak. GM will still beay Ford on mileage. Have not seen a Ford yet that beats GM or Dodge on mileage, gas or diesel. Myself I would be scared of Ford purely because of their ability to stand behind their products. They will fight a large warranty claim tooth and nail. They don't have the budget to back the vehicles anymore.


rof, I wouldn't recommend the POS Kodiak to anyone. 2500/3500 anyday, but not that pos.

I agree with the above. AFAIK, the 3500 dually actually has a higher tow rating than the Kodiak.

Just came back from a local dealer from checking out the new 2500 in person and they look a lot better than in pictures I know most guys in this site are saying gmc is better chevy is ugly but in person both are tough looking trucks chevy needs a little bumper work but that's all. by the way those chrome corners are plastic so i bet that in no time there will be paintable aftermarket I'm still ordering my chevy I just hope is not a $7000 jump in price like I read in an other blog:cool: You guys who say the Chevy is ugly and then turn around and say the furd looks good need glasses! The Chevy needs a front bumper change, but the furd is just plain DOG UGLY!-:t

Yep I saw a new one today also....not that bad, but it sure looks like a turd in the pictures.Still like mine better tho.

dmax07, I just saw a Black Chevy HD on ebay and it looked good. I thought I was set on a GMC but after seeing this one I'm not so sure. :confused: I may end up eating my words and get a Chevy. :o:

PS. I'm sorry , but I can't help my self. I enjoy picking on furd boys. It's nothing personal, it's that I like Chevys and hate furds. If they don't like it stay off the GM site.

...and what does that mean in terms of performance or longevity?

it means the more the better. better seal longer life.

Who cares about looks. I want a truck that works. I had a 05, 6.0 paid for. I got rid of it with 30,000 miles on it. I got sick and tired of sitting on the side of the road broke down or my truck being in the shop. Lets see, replace turbo, high pressure oil pump, egr valve and wiring harness, rear seal twice, numerous flashes, etc... or buy a Duramax and not have the above issues.

Remember the 03 front end, Every body complained but then got used to it and most ( including me) love it. Change sucks at first but we get use to it. I love chevrolet/GM and will ONLY drive them, Ford is the ugliest, most undependable truck ( besides the RAM) with the worst interior. A cinder block is more comfortable than a damn ford seat:mad: . FORD is and always has been SECOND best!!!!!:)

it means the more the better. better seal longer life.

Many thanks!

By the way, I was driving home from work Thursday and was stuck in some gnarly traffic. I was stopped in my lane (street) waiting for the Sheriff to pull a car out of the road when I noticed a 2500HD pulling up next to me. Since I had my windows down (don't we all do that in February?) I expected to hear some sort of diesel clatter. Well, I didn't. I glanced to make sure I had seen the Duramax/Allison badge, which I did. I then realized this must be a new one.

I briefly talked to the guy, who had just bought the truck last week. He replaced his '02 Duramax with this one and absolutely loved it. The '02 had well over 300K miles and he just wanted a new truck. This one - he indicated - was quieter and just as powerful as his old truck. I asked to make sure he had the LMM engine, and he said it was.

I seriously couldn't believe how quiet it was at idle. Didn't look bad, either.


Still...

...it wasn't an AV. :rolleyes:

Remember the 03 front end, Every body complained but then got used to it and most ( including me) love it. Change sucks at first but we get use to it. I love chevrolet/GM and will ONLY drive them, Ford is the ugliest, most undependable truck ( besides the RAM) with the worst interior. A cinder block is more comfortable than a damn ford seat:mad: . FORD is and always has been SECOND best!!!!!:)
I work in the shipping department of a steal roofing company and I talk to a lot of truck owners. I hear the above story over and over. I have yet to talk to a 6.0 owner that had no trouble with it. The worst thing I ever hear about 6.6 is once in a while injectors or rear tires wear out to fast.

rof, I wouldn't recommend the POS Kodiak to anyone. 2500/3500 anyday, but not that pos.
Shut up, we love our c4500 and we work the fire out of that truck. It is a serious truck for a huge load.

Who cares about looks. I want a truck that works. I had a 05, 6.0 paid for. I got rid of it with 30,000 miles on it. I got sick and tired of sitting on the side of the road broke down or my truck being in the shop. Lets see, replace turbo, high pressure oil pump, egr valve and wiring harness, rear seal twice, numerous flashes, etc... or buy a Duramax and not have the above issues.
I hear this a lot too.

I'm a long time reader, seldom a poster. But I've got to say something about the new HDs.

I've owned two Duramax's - an 02 I put 110,000 miles on and traded on the '05 that I currently own that has 52,000 on it. They both have been flawless from a powertrain standpoint - and both of them have been chipped, bigger exhausts, differnet intakes, etc. Great pulling trucks, absolutely no complaints on performance.

Everybody knows that GM has a great diesel powertrain (if a diesel guy can't admit that they don't know what they are talking about), but in my opinion they are lucky that the Ford 's powertrain does not perform - because that is one good looking truck. And, unfortunately for the general, the '08 Ford is even more impressive looking.

My buddy just bought an '07 F350 Lariat Crew Cab (Outlaw addtion) with 20" rims. He pulled that truck up next to my '05 (that has 285's and the torsion bars way cranked up) and my truck looked like a Colorado. He let me take it for a ride, and as hard as this is for me to say as a Chevy guy, I could not wipe the smile off my face. The stance of that truck is awesome, the interior is nice, and the truck just screams look at me. He also had a Superchips programming that helped the fun along.

I just feel GM had a chance to knock the ball out of the park with their new HD truck - design something with the physical stance of the Ford, the interior room of the Ford, and a clean exterior design tastefully evolved from the LTZ look of the new Tahoe or Suburban. I feel like they missed on all of this. The over engineered look of the new HD front end is too busy, the way GM used chrome should be illegal! They tried to use molding and bulges in the bed to make it look big instead of just making it big. The whole things just looks like it wants to be tough but can't.

This truck will not attract one additional buyer from Ford and Dodge. The only buyers GM has stole so far are the ones that could see past the look of the truck to the powertrain. If the other two get the powertrain right, GM is in trouble.

What a waste of the best diesel powertrain in the business. I love the Duramax, but if the 6.4 proves to be a good motor for Ford, there could very well be one in my garage someday.

I'm a long time reader, seldom a poster. But I've got to say something about the new HDs.

I've owned two Duramax's - an 02 I put 110,000 miles on and traded on the '05 that I currently own that has 52,000 on it. They both have been flawless from a powertrain standpoint - and both of them have been chipped, bigger exhausts, differnet intakes, etc. Great pulling trucks, absolutely no complaints on performance.

Everybody knows that GM has a great diesel powertrain (if a diesel guy can't admit that they don't know what they are talking about), but in my opinion they are lucky that the Ford 's powertrain does not perform - because that is one good looking truck. And, unfortunately for the general, the '08 Ford is even more impressive looking.

My buddy just bought an '07 F350 Lariat Crew Cab (Outlaw addtion) with 20" rims. He pulled that truck up next to my '05 (that has 285's and the torsion bars way cranked up) and my truck looked like a Colorado. He let me take it for a ride, and as hard as this is for me to say as a Chevy guy, I could not wipe the smile off my face. The stance of that truck is awesome, the interior is nice, and the truck just screams look at me. He also had a Superchips programming that helped the fun along.

I just feel GM had a chance to knock the ball out of the park with their new HD truck - design something with the physical stance of the Ford, the interior room of the Ford, and a clean exterior design tastefully evolved from the LTZ look of the new Tahoe or Suburban. I feel like they missed on all of this. The over engineered look of the new HD front end is too busy, the way GM used chrome should be illegal! They tried to use molding and bulges in the bed to make it look big instead of just making it big. The whole things just looks like it wants to be tough but can't.

This truck will not attract one additional buyer from Ford and Dodge. The only buyers GM has stole so far are the ones that could see past the look of the truck to the powertrain. If the other two get the powertrain right, GM is in trouble.

What a waste of the best diesel powertrain in the business. I love the Duramax, but if the 6.4 proves to be a good motor for Ford, there could very well be one in my garage someday.

You might go ford buddy but I'm pretty sure the rest of us in this site are staying gm till we can no longer drive.and about ford getting it right this time, I wonder why they did not release the 2008 on feb 1 like they said they would? ohoh trouble with their drive train? I'm sorry to hear that from you so called gm guy but chevy is looking better everyday.:D I'm a long time reader, seldom a poster. But I've got to say something about the new HDs.

I've owned two Duramax's - an 02 I put 110,000 miles on and traded on the '05 that I currently own that has 52,000 on it. They both have been flawless from a powertrain standpoint - and both of them have been chipped, bigger exhausts, differnet intakes, etc. Great pulling trucks, absolutely no complaints on performance.

Everybody knows that GM has a great diesel powertrain (if a diesel guy can't admit that they don't know what they are talking about), but in my opinion they are lucky that the Ford 's powertrain does not perform - because that is one good looking truck. And, unfortunately for the general, the '08 Ford is even more impressive looking.

My buddy just bought an '07 F350 Lariat Crew Cab (Outlaw addtion) with 20" rims. He pulled that truck up next to my '05 (that has 285's and the torsion bars way cranked up) and my truck looked like a Colorado. He let me take it for a ride, and as hard as this is for me to say as a Chevy guy, I could not wipe the smile off my face. The stance of that truck is awesome, the interior is nice, and the truck just screams look at me. He also had a Superchips programming that helped the fun along.

I just feel GM had a chance to knock the ball out of the park with their new HD truck - design something with the physical stance of the Ford, the interior room of the Ford, and a clean exterior design tastefully evolved from the LTZ look of the new Tahoe or Suburban. I feel like they missed on all of this. The over engineered look of the new HD front end is too busy, the way GM used chrome should be illegal! They tried to use molding and bulges in the bed to make it look big instead of just making it big. The whole things just looks like it wants to be tough but can't.

This truck will not attract one additional buyer from Ford and Dodge. The only buyers GM has stole so far are the ones that could see past the look of the truck to the powertrain. If the other two get the powertrain right, GM is in trouble.

What a waste of the best diesel powertrain in the business. I love the Duramax, but if the 6.4 proves to be a good motor for Ford, there could very well be one in my garage someday.

Ford would have to prove a lot to me with their new motor before I would consider buying one, because it would take a lot to get me out of my Duramax.

I'm just saying from a looks standpoint, GM could have sent a knock out punch to Ford but didn't. They missed. That's my opinion, it might not be popular here, but that is what I think.

It just just hurts me to know that I will probably be driving this new HD design soon (because of the powertrain) and again, just like with me '05, I won't like the way it looks.

Man I miss my '02's looks.

I saw a 2008 ford diesel sitting in the mall parking lot today. It is a NICE looking truck. I love my Chevy but I think Ford has a sweet looking truck.

I have a f550 on order with the 6.4 after I drive it a while I'll let you guys know what I think. I have been driving gm's for a long time but I would not buy a new one I hate the way they look now. almost bought a c4500 to match the c6500 I already have but the guys would not retuen my calls or e-mails(dont understand why ppl dont wanna take my cash).

Ford would have to prove a lot to me with their new motor before I would consider buying one, because it would take a lot to get me out of my Duramax.

I'm just saying from a looks standpoint, GM could have sent a knock out punch to Ford but didn't. They missed. That's my opinion, it might not be popular here, but that is what I think.

It just just hurts me to know that I will probably be driving this new HD design soon (because of the powertrain) and again, just like with me '05, I won't like the way it looks.

Man I miss my '02's looks.

thornak7, I too wish GM had been more aggressive with their styling but in my opinion they've finally done it, especially with the GMC's, but the new Chevy's are a huge improvement too. I haven't been too crazy about the new Chevy bumpers but they look 1000% better in some of the more recent real life pics we've seen. To me the new GMC's look as good as the '07 Fords. Too much chrome? Maybe in the Chevy bumper but have you seen the new GMC's? Probably less chrome on them than on the Fords. And as for being too 'busy' looking, I don't see it any more on the GMC's than on the Fords. Maybe on the Chevy's, with the bar across the grill and the bumper end caps. IMHO, if the new GMC's were offered with SFA's they'd almost be the perfect truck (except maybe for the DPF). And for many who wouldn't want to go back to SFA's, they already are. As far as the 6.4 Ford's go, I sincerely hope they do turn out to be great engines. It'll be good for everyone if Ford is successful and survives. Consumer choice, honest domestic competition, people keeping their jobs etc are always good things.

The ford is butt ugly -:tbut the chevy is next in line why didnt they just put a ford oval on the tailgate I would have never known the difference driving by but for the 6.4 i will side with my father in law the 6.4 is going to be just as bad as the 6.0 (hes a diesel mechanic, has his own shop and owns a ford). All new fords suck bottom line

RoadShark - good comments. Your right, the GMC is much better looking than the Chevy. Not too much chrome, etc. I'm looking forward to actually seeing one with my own eyes (the GMC). Hopefully it will look even better in person. And the Duramax certainly makes up for a lot of the shortcomings in the looks department.

I've never been a GMC guy, but I'm sure I could become one!

I'm with you - Ford's success is good for the USA and competition. It's just that if it is a smashing success, I may consider owning one!

I had a '97 Ford 250 SD, 7.3L, 5 spd, gear vendor, and exhaust brake. Bought new 5er and needed bigger truck. Next '06 Dodge 3500 drw, 5.9L, 6 spd & exhaust brake, great truck but not for me. Now '06 Chev 2500 HD, 6.6, Allison, 4wd, seems good so far. The transmission shifts a little rough at times. The main problem with Ford is the 2 piece flywheel (no damn good) and both the Ford & Dodge automatics have marginal reputations (from what I hear). That's why I have a Chevy. I would have preferred a Ford but the above problem areas scared me off. A new 2002 7.3L w/ 6spd would have been ideal.

after reading all this and in the market to trade my duramax...i think i'm going to buy a diesel volkswagon:D not!!!!! i will be getting my new duramax this month!!!!!! i don't care about the front bumper...no one will see it because i will always be in front...all the they are going to see is my back bumper!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If any are worried about the ugly chevy bumper just replace the whole thing with a ranch hand full replacement are other type bumper.....but the ford...I don't think the front end could hold the weight of the iron to the cover up that mess.

The last two post are funny :funnypost, thanks guys I needed that. :D

Hey guys I am sorry about (my) last reply, (I mean my so called friend) He made that reply I did not, He had my laptop at the fire house, useing it under my name. IM SORRY I do like my CHEVY, I do own a 02 1500, and he does not like that.( we kid around a lot, but i dont kid around like that, saying that kind of stuff) I am truley SORRY.That wont happen again. :o:

I drove an '08 6.4L Ford today -- crew cab, 4x4, auto, leather, rear entertainment system...loaded -- $51.3K, IIRC.

My truck -- see sig -- with 65HP tune will blow the Ford away, but wait there's more....

The Ford is the quietest diesel truck yet so it seems. It does not even sound like a diesel -- truly it's not the exaggeration that characterized the 1st gen Duramax. It's quieter than my friends brand new '07 Powerstroke which is significantly quieter than my Chevy. It does sound like a very quiet diesel standing in front of the truck, but that's it. Inside it's very quiet and smooth. It has much better throttle response than my Chevy -- it might even beat it across the intersection before the Duramax got wound up and walked away.

The Ford does feel powerful, but it feels very heavy. You can tell it's a big heavy truck, yet the steering feel is very light. Inside the cab it's quiet. I got on the Ford twice and I never could hear the turbos...compared to my friend's stock '07 Ford, which about all you can here there IS the turbo.

The Ford is spacious and sits high. The interior materials are superior to my Chevy's. I actually liked the cloth interior of another '08 I looked at better than the leather -- it seemed really rugged. I still don't like the Ford's 270 degree sweep gauges though, but at least it comes with a boost gauge. The sound system is not as good as the Dolby system in my Chevy which really isn't saying that much, but is consistent with my brief experience with an '04.5 F150 which had a pretty poor sounding system in it.

The ride of the 4x4 Ford feels just as refined as the Chevy's so again I'm not convinced that the IFS has all that much to offer.

The shifting of the Ford felt kind of spongy for lack of a better term.

Under the hood it's a plumbing nightmare, as would be expected. The engine sits far back, understandably there will be a maintenance procedure to pull the cab off the frame should some serious work need to be done.

It's a nice truck no doubt. I'd like to compare it to the new GM heavy duty to get an apples to apples comparison. I could easily have both in my driveway. I certainly would not disrespect someone for spending that much money their ride of choice. It's nice and I'd be happy for them.

I like the Ford, but still like my Chevy. It should be good news for all of us to see the quality of these trucks being taken up a notch. Competition is good for the consumer.

It's be interesting to see how the aftermarket reacts.

Thanks T-Rex, that was a good overview, and good insights. Looks like they're all headed in the same direction as far as sound goes. I wonder why they want to completely silence the turbo, are there really that many people out there that don't like it and don't want to hear it at all? Or are the decision makers just making assumptions? I didn't know the '07 Fords were already quieter than Dmax's from a couple years ago.

I drove an '08 6.4L Ford today -- crew cab, 4x4, auto, leather, rear entertainment system...loaded -- $51.3K, IIRC.

My truck -- see sig -- with 65HP tune will blow the Ford away, but wait there's more....

The Ford is the quietest diesel truck yet so it seems. It does not even sound like a diesel -- truly it's not the exaggeration that characterized the 1st gen Duramax. It's quieter than my friends brand new '07 Powerstroke which is significantly quieter than my Chevy. It does sound like a very quiet diesel standing in front of the truck, but that's it. Inside it's very quiet and smooth. It has much better throttle response than my Chevy -- it might even beat it across the intersection before the Duramax got wound up and walked away.

The Ford does feel powerful, but it feels very heavy. You can tell it's a big heavy truck, yet the steering feel is very light. Inside the cab it's quiet. I got on the Ford twice and I never could hear the turbos...compared to my friend's stock '07 Ford, which about all you can here there IS the turbo.

The Ford is spacious and sits high. The interior materials are superior to my Chevy's. I actually liked the cloth interior of another '08 I looked at better than the leather -- it seemed really rugged. I still don't like the Ford's 270 degree sweep gauges though, but at least it comes with a boost gauge. The sound system is not as good as the Dolby system in my Chevy which really isn't saying that much, but is consistent with my brief experience with an '04.5 F150 which had a pretty poor sounding system in it.

The ride of the 4x4 Ford feels just as refined as the Chevy's so again I'm not convinced that the IFS has all that much to offer.

The shifting of the Ford felt kind of spongy for lack of a better term.

Under the hood it's a plumbing nightmare, as would be expected. The engine sits far back, understandably there will be a maintenance procedure to pull the cab off the frame should some serious work need to be done.

It's a nice truck no doubt. I'd like to compare it to the new GM heavy duty to get an apples to apples comparison. I could easily have both in my driveway. I certainly would not disrespect someone for spending that much money their ride of choice. It's nice and I'd be happy for them.

I like the Ford, but still like my Chevy. It should be good news for all of us to see the quality of these trucks being taken up a notch. Competition is good for the consumer.

It's be interesting to see how the aftermarket reacts.

I drove an '08 6.4L Ford today -- crew cab, 4x4, auto, leather, rear entertainment system...loaded -- $51.3K, IIRC.

Wow!

My truck -- see sig -- with 65HP tune will blow the Ford away, but wait there's more....

The Ford is the quietest diesel truck yet so it seems. It does not even sound like a diesel -- truly it's not the exaggeration that characterized the 1st gen Duramax. It's quieter than my friends brand new '07 Powerstroke which is significantly quieter than my Chevy. It does sound like a very quiet diesel standing in front of the truck, but that's it.


I had the occasion yesterday to stand next to one while warming up. My Avalance and I took the wife and kids up to Arrowhead for the weekend...

http://donutmonster.com/stuff/2007/20070218_av_snow.JPG (http://donutmonster.com/stuff/2007/20070218_av_snow.JPG)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



...and while getting the snow off the windows, I was outside next to both a new '08 Ford and a guy with an '02 350. I could not believe the difference in sound the two trucks made. Very nice work, they did on the new truck.

Keep in mind, however, that at least two buddies of mine have had issues with the 4x4 on their Fords. One has an '05 with only 9,000 miles on his F150. Last weekend, he was up in Mammoth and the 4x4 actuator went out. He had to climb down the mountian in two wheel drive with no traction control. By comparison, I think my 4x4 actuator on my '95 Jimmy didn't start causing problems until about 120,000 miles.

sold my 03 chevy 3500 cc duramax yesterday. keldermann rear end, alcoas, edge, etc...great truck.

went down to the ford store in morgan hill, ca the very same day and replaced it.

2008 F250 FX4, silver, black leather. the new 6.4 is very nice. this truck is very nice. i like this truck.

i am not a chevy guy or a ford guy. my policy is to buy the best product available. so my truck is a ford, and my car is a chevy (Z06).

Smoke, put your flame suit on. It's going to get ugly.:D

fortunately for me the ford came with a nomex suit...

fortunately for me the ford came with a nomex suit...

And a 'recovery rope':D

And a 'recovery rope':D



Like the D***** does a paper bag :D

We can bash Fords & GM's all day for ever !

I'm a GM guy through and through, have owned Chevy's & GMC's

To me the GM product is better - have had good luck with them.
Looks and performance - Ford is probably second grade material

To me..... GM trucks are superior, just look here on this site and read......

Dodge powertrain (from what I've heard is junk.. & Ford engines are problematic) end of story.

Go ahead and ridicule me or argue - the proof is in my garage and that's it !!!

Good luck to all ....................... period !

:D :) :o: :ro) :grd: :cool_shad :Handshake :Whoa: :sorrysign :saluteusa:

Like the D***** does a paper bag :D

Of course, it's there to pick up all the GM parts that fly off on the road!:D

J/K

I have to say this, after seeing a Super Duty 08 up close and personal, I don't mind the exterior, but the interior is a home run.

Let's see, a Cummins, with an Allison, and the Ford Body and Interior.

The PERFECT TRUCK!

(That boost gauge is cheesy as HE77 though.)

I looked at one the other day as well.......and I will agree that the interior is awesome and the top trim level trucks will look good with some personal touches.


Lets see what the 6.4 does first before I say anymore

its not much to look at...

its not much to look at...
Is it me, or does it scream...Titan...interior ...j/k!!

Sorry but what a mistake I still respect your decision but I drove a ford and it did not inpress me at all I still think you should have waited for the chevys and then decide.its not much to look at...

Traitor

its not much to look at...


Wow, the glovebox has the Rubbermaid Trademark stripes in it:D

Some things I found over on the Ford 6.4 forums....

"4.9 to 7.1 was the best we received while towing our 42/0 gooseneck to the race track last weekend. towed about 650 miles average about 72 mph we have f450 488 gears . looking for aftermarket fuel tank we are stoping to much for fuel. "

"I just got an F450, 4.88 gears 4 days ago. I have put about 500 miles on it. Today I noticed an oil leak coming from what looks like the front main seal. I'll keep all posted on how things go."

"WTF! More oil leaks. They didn't learn from last time I guess. Unbelieveable, all of this waiting for the best truck ever and it leaks oil with 500 miles on it. I also heard from another diesel stop guy who knows a guy who already blew up his 6.4 over the weekend. I have zero patients for something like this. International is going to continue to run Ford father in the ground with crap like this."


Her is a good website that techs fro dealers post to...http://www.flatratetech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27355

That's a good looking truck smoke. I'd drive that.:D

I also heard from another diesel stop guy who knows a guy who already blew up his 6.4 over the weekend.

I once knew a guy that had a cousin twice removed, that knew someone that blew up his motor and tranny with only 200 miles on it while taking his daughter to soccer practice.

its not much to look at...

Very nice. I like the color! :cool:

Your a brave man, after how bad the 6.0 stroke rollout was I would have to wait atleast a year. Heck it took me 5 to try a dmax.

Some things I found over on the Ford 6.4 forums....

"4.9 to 7.1 was the best we received while towing our 42/0 gooseneck to the race track last weekend. towed about 650 miles average about 72 mph we have f450 488 gears . looking for aftermarket fuel tank we are stoping to much for fuel. "

"I just got an F450, 4.88 gears 4 days ago. I have put about 500 miles on it. Today I noticed an oil leak coming from what looks like the front main seal. I'll keep all posted on how things go."

"WTF! More oil leaks. They didn't learn from last time I guess. Unbelieveable, all of this waiting for the best truck ever and it leaks oil with 500 miles on it. I also heard from another diesel stop guy who knows a guy who already blew up his 6.4 over the weekend. I have zero patients for something like this. International is going to continue to run Ford father in the ground with crap like this."


Her is a good website that techs fro dealers post to...http://www.flatratetech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27355

Too bad that it isnt internationals fault, rather it is Fords fault for putting all the FRED's(Fricking Rediculous Electronic Devices), and what not on Internationals engines causing them to do what they do. Well like they say you can polish a turd till it shines, and in the end it is still a piece of sh*t.

I have a buddy who has a very problematic 2006 F-550 6.0 PSD, so obviously with seeing the issues first hand I would be very leary. The Ford techs at the local dealership said they suspect similiar issues with the 6.4, as the technical design is worse than a 6.0.

I did take the time to go drive the new 2008 Ford F-250 King Ranch 4x4 crew, $56,000 MSRP. (Yeah, 56k for a 3/4 ton pickup) The 6.4 did not impress me at all. Twin turbo or not, it barely ran the equivalent of a stock duramax. You would think a 6.4 T/T would spank a duramax (theoretically) but it wasn't even close. It did have great highway "get-up", but off the line it was a dog. And the dealer tester had 600+ miles on it, so its not even like it was "brand" new. I can only imagine how bad it will be with weight on the back. It also rode very rough. GM's are much smoother riding, which is important to me.

I'll be ordering a new 07 GMC 2500 D/A. No need for a $2250 navi unit, my $300 garmin works even better than most OEM navigation units and can be used in any vehicle. :)

You may like it but dude...... its still a FORD!

Her is a good website that techs fro dealers post to...http://www.flatratetech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27355


Yech!

Ford says they put 10 million miles on the 6.4 before they set it loose on the public. That's what the Ford robot that came to our dealer told us at least. I asked how many engines did the 10 million miles and was proudly told 600!! I asked, "did you do the math on that yet?" She says why? I told her that was just 16,000 miles per engine. For a diesel that's just a trip around the block. She was speechless.I certianly don't get the warm fuzzies reading that. I wonder what The General/DMAX did with the LMM.

this is great entertainment!!

keep it coming...

a truck is a truck is a truck...

Big bro' stealing my handle and now driving a FERD, what next...

He's gone to the dark side...

But seriously guys... the new Ford is a damn nice truck, drive it before you haze it! Very solid on the road. More so than my 05' D-max, less road noise and motor noise in cab! Great bottom end power (out of the hole), should be a great truck...

But do as you all will, slash away!!!

Oh yeah!!!

Snapperheads!

damn im changing my name...sorry lil bro.

I still think you should have waited for the Lmm's I drove a 08 ford and it did not inpress me at all that truck was a dog no take off at least not on the street no wonder the rep was trying to take me to the freeway maybe after a while they take off sorry just my thoughts I still respect your decision I hope you don't regret it. I almost did last year before I bought my Lbz Good luck.damn im changing my name...sorry lil bro.

I've got a bad habit of going and test driving cars/trucks for fun whenever I have nothing else to do. One thing I've noticed about test driving brand new ferds is that one will feel great and haves lots of power and the other will be a dog. They are never consistent off the lot, but I would guess that they all become somewhat equal when they are broken in. In contrast, everytime I drive a new GM, each vehicle has the same feel and power right off the lot.

I've got a bad habit of going and test driving cars/trucks for fun whenever I have nothing else to do. One thing I've noticed about test driving brand new ferds is that one will feel great and haves lots of power and the other will be a dog. They are never consistent off the lot, but I would guess that they all become somewhat equal when they are broken in. In contrast, everytime I drive a new GM, each vehicle has the same feel and power right off the lot.

So you are one those dam time wasters that I would get when I sold cars!! :D:rolleyes:

sorry but what a mistake i still respect your decision but i drove a ford and it did not inpress me at all i still think you should have waited for the chevys and then decide. deja

I still think you should have waited for the Lmm's I drove a 08 ford and it did not inpress me at all that truck was a dog no take off at least not on the street no wonder the rep was trying to take me to the freeway maybe after a while they take off sorry just my thoughts I still respect your decision I hope you don't regret it. I almost did last year before I bought my Lbz Good luck.


VU

do you have amnesia? keep repeating yourself.

I think he REALLY wanted to make double sure you knew he thought you made a bad choice and you should have waited for the new gm truck. Of course what he fails to realize is that you're grown and you don't need any help spending your money on what you like! ;)

So you are one those dam time wasters that I would get when I sold cars!! :D:rolleyes:

I'm one of those too. But sometimes I end up buying one. I bought an 05 Ford F150 that way. Test drove it, kinda liked it, they gave me an awesome deal, so I bought it. Drove it for 5 months, and I just couldn't stand it anymore. I took a big hit getting out of it. Live and learn.:rolleyes:

So, being the "damn time waster" that I am, I test drove an 2008 F-250 today. Below are my thoughts:

This truck is so quiet inside and out that it is hard the believe its a diesel. I stood outside while the salesdude started it up and I could not believe how quiet it is. The 6.4 in no way resembles rattlebox that other Powerstrokes have been known to be. Acceleration was really good, but it won't impress those with aftermarket power goodies. It actually feels comparible to a stock LBZ; I was expecting a little more low end power because of the sequential turbos. The steering was light and the ride was surprisingly soft. I'd say that the Ford is very comparible to the GM's in ride quality. One thing I like about the Ford's is that the turning radius is so much smaller than our GM trucks. When I returned to the dealer, I popped the hood to take a look. The engine bay is very cramped and will likely be difficult to work on, despite the fact that they have added a built-in step to work on the engine. (Is that funny to anyone other than me???) I don't like the hood/grill design because it is all one peice and raises up with the hood in a similar fashion to the dodge rams. This is probably a functional design because it exposes all of the radiator/intercooler stacks, but I don't like the big grill hanging down for me to bang my head on while I'm working on the engine. In all, I was very impressed with these trucks and I imagine that GM will have some good competition as long as the 6.4's hold up better than the 6.0's. Competition is good because it will only make all of our choices that much better. Before I left, I had to take a gander at a F-350 King Ranch. As I walked up I saw the sticker and almost gagged........$56K :eek: :eek: :eek:

ya i am one of those time wasters too the first d-max i drove i wasn't even 18 yet and i was just waiting around for my girlfriend at the time and the salesmen came out started talking and asked if i would like to take it for a ride when we got back he asked me which truck was mine thinking it was one of the new ones and when i pointed to my 94 z-71 i think i heard him say some choice words. But i can't wait till all the new trucks are out then i will make my decision but i am still leaning toward the chevy for now

the local dealer has a superduty crew black on the lot with 20's on it. Looks good.

Screw ford though.

I have to agree with ya on that one I see Fords with all kinds of different size tires with out modifying the body. My 02 D-Max handled 285's with 8" wheels with no trouble tried to put them on my 06 D-Max and I just about tore the valance off backing out of Belle Tire had to pull it back in and put my stock rims back on really pissed me off that GM can't figure that out.I have been a die hard GM customer for thirty years but they really need to talk to there customers.

I wonder how long the 6.4L will even last...

http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6201073/editorials/navistar-international-ford-64-liter-turbo-diesel-engine/index.html


The Associated Press is reporting today that Navistar/International, the makers of the 6.4Liter Twin Turbo Diesel Engine that Ford is currently using in their Consumer and Commercial trucks, has idled its engine plant in Indianapolis because of an ongoing dispute with the Ford Motor Company.

Navistar said in a statement that it pays suppliers and employees under contract terms and "expects Ford to honor the terms of its agreement." Spokesman Roy Wiley declined to elaborate.

I looked at the 08 Fords at the Ft. Worth auto show the other day. A F450 4X4 with the King Ranch package - $61,500. Plus when I looked under the hood, I believe an engine is somewhere down there under all that stuff.

I priced a Sierra 2500 LMM totaly loaded at Edmunds.com and it came to 55,540 !

Imagine what a SLT 3500 dually will be !!

The King Ranch Ford is more expensive ... but not by much.

:) :grd: I have owned, we have a 95 f250, a 2003 chev 2500 and a 2005 3500, all are diesel....the fuel consumption in the ford is much greater than the chev while towing.........the chev is tons more comftable, pulls everything from a small utility trailer to our 39 ft 3 horse trailer without a problem and delivers 12-13 miles to the gallon.....as for me I will stick with the chev.....but just try and get the ford away from my 18 year old son

i just saw an 08 ford this morning getting loaded onto a flatbed on the side of parkway while they left his trailer on the side of the road.

Just got an e-mail from my dad. He said the San Antonio paper has an article saying Navistar has stopped production of 6.4's in a dispute with Ford. Said they have 1 weeks worth of inventory right now.

sorry about the add's
here is the link too
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA022707.01E.ford.8791a1.html
Supplier quits making Ford diesel engines


Web Posted: 02/26/2007 07:51 PM CST


Sean M. Wood
Express-News Business Writer

Ford Motor Co. may be losing one of its biggest weapons in the Texas truck war.
Navistar International Corp. has stopped making the 6.4-liter Power Stroke diesel engines that power the Ford F-250, F-350 and F-450 Super Duty pickups. Ford has been counting on these new three-quarter-ton and one-ton pickups to help maintain its overall truck dominance against new half-ton versions of the San Antonio-built Toyota Tundra and General Motors' Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra.
advertisement
http://www.mysanantonio.com/global-images/pix.gif (http://www.mysanantonio.com/global-images/pix.gif)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)
OAS_AD('Bottom1');document.write('http://view.atdmt.com/ATA/view/cnoccsbl0010001348ata/direct;wi.300;hi.250/01/ (http://ads.belointeractive.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.mysanantonio.com/business/2060249454/Bottom1/OasDefault/MySaATTSmallBusiness001B/ATT300_0207.html/38343334396133333435653439633030?http://clk.atdmt.com/ATA/go/cnoccsbl0010001348ata/direct;wi.300;hi.250/01/)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)
');http://view.atdmt.com/ATA/view/cnoccsbl0010001348ata/direct;wi.300;hi.250/01/ (http://ads.belointeractive.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.mysanantonio.com/business/2060249454/Bottom1/OasDefault/MySaATTSmallBusiness001B/ATT300_0207.html/38343334396133333435653439633030?http://clk.atdmt.com/ATA/go/cnoccsbl0010001348ata/direct;wi.300;hi.250/01/)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)

Navistar stopped building the engines and claimed Ford has withheld payment. It's a claim Ford denies.
Analysts expect an agreement to be hammered out within a week because each company has too much invested in the new, quieter, more powerful and cleaner-engine technology that powers the latest version of Ford's Super Duty pickups.
"It's a relatively big deal," said Paul Lacy, manager of technical research for Global Insight, a forecasting company. "It all depends on how long Ford can hold out."
Lacy said Ford may have about a week's supply of engines.
On the Web

Ford (http://www.ford.com/)
Navistar International Corp. (http://www.navistar.com/)
Global Insight (http://www.globalinsight.com/)
Ford spokeswoman Becky Sanch said, "Ford can support production in the near term." She wouldn't say how long that was.
"We have worked with Navistar for many months to resolve the commercial issues we have," Sanch said. "We have always honored our agreements with them, and we will continue to do so."
Navistar spokesman Roy Wiley said Ford has breached its contract, so his company has gone from making 600 Power Stroke diesel engines a day to none.
The F-series is Ford's most popular product. Last year, it sold nearly 800,000, and 40 percent of those were Super Duty trucks. Seventy percent of those Super Duty trucks had diesel engines, according to Sanch.

Ford gives you 5 year 60 k mile warranty, GM 5 year 100 K. That tells me alot, Ford doesn't expect this thing to last long and wants the warrant over quickly, so the smoe that bought it will have to pay big bucks. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll forever be GM loyal. Just my opinion don't get your panties in a bunch.
Steve

Ford warrants the motor for 100k, identical to GM. GM has a much better drivetrain warranty that goes to 100k.

Ford gives you 5 year 60 k mile warranty, GM 5 year 100 K. That tells me alot, Ford doesn't expect this thing to last long and wants the warrant over quickly, so the smoe that bought it will have to pay big bucks. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll forever be GM loyal. Just my opinion don't get your panties in a bunch.
Steve

Moldman is correct, Ford is also 100k on the engine only. Ford is $100 deductible from 36-100k miles. GM covers the entire powertrain to 100k, zero deductible.

I stand corrected and humbled, however I still stand behind not wanting a F_ _ D.

GMC is the way to go, the ford still has a 5 speed auto.

I'm a Yugo guy myself...

if thats all you worry about it the bumper so be it, if the 6.4 is anything like the 6.0 when it came out good luck that will be the end to ford, as for the twin turbos good luck as well , if CAT cant make it work correctly i doubt IHC will


BorgWarner built the twin turbos for the new Ford and it works great from the initial tests, peak torque off the line and throughout the rpm curve.

So how do you guys think that new "Twin Turbo" will peform agaist LMM's or evern the LBZ's...you think it will spank us, b/c its gonna have a faster spool with 2 turbos...

So how do you guys think that new "Twin Turbo" will peform agaist LMM's or evern the LBZ's...you think it will spank us, b/c its gonna have a faster spool with 2 turbos...

Ford likes to call it twins but it's actually dual stage turbos mounted in series with no more boost than the 6.0. Not much to gain other than a slight reduction of turbo lag. Bet that one's going to cost $$$. The reviews at the Dieselstop aren't good for the 6.4. Some reports are noting lack of highway power, speed limiter set at 81 MPH, Oil in water, and the notorious front main seal leak. Not to mention the impeding divorce between Ford and Navastar. Have a look.

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3243273&an=0&page=0#Post3243273

Wednesday night a Judge in suburban Detroit ORDERED Navistar to start making engines !!

How would you like to buy a SD that had an engine built during these times & under these relationship conditions? No thanks !!

Well, considering peoples jobs are on the line I'd say it wouldn't be that bad of an investment. If the folks at navistar want to keep their job they better get the 6.4 right the first time. Ford will drop them like a hot potato if otherwise.

I read somewhere that the 6.4 with the two stage turbo peak torque is at 2000 rpm. The duramax is rated @ 1600 rpm. Don't you want your peak torque at lower rpms? It seems pretty pointless to have two turbos and no low end torque.........

Wednesday night a Judge in suburban Detroit ORDERED Navistar to start making engines !!

How would you like to buy a SD that had an engine built during these times & under these relationship conditions? No thanks !!

I'm with you DLewis, haha i think NOT!

All the things that have come up in this thread are the reasons why I now own a Duramax. I've had issues with all three past toys in my signature. I love the dmax and I got better mileage on my second tank than I got doing the same trip the week before with a powerchoke with 53k on it. I hope it can only get better from there. After actually owning a dmax I wish I hadn't been so dumb for the last 5 yrs.

Spool up is no better than the six point slow I drove one and It sucks at take off I would have expected it to be a lot better did not drive it in highway maybe it's better there but I still think their 06 is better. Lets see about chevy I ordered an 07 Lmm but still have not sold my Lbz till I drive the new one.So how do you guys think that new "Twin Turbo" will peform agaist LMM's or evern the LBZ's...you think it will spank us, b/c its gonna have a faster spool with 2 turbos...

powerchoke -:tAfter actually owning a dmax I wish I hadn't been so dumb :help2::shootself:duh::banghead: for the last 5 yrs.

That's ok, you have been forgiven!! :angel:):h

I hate ford, always have, always will.I had to suffer all those years with the 6.5 while some of my buddys made fun of me and said that there powerstruggles couldn't be topped. Well guess what , my 02 duramax will run circles around that junk:D including that new 6.4 and i'm having the time of my life. So ford boys how do you like me now!!!!!!!!!!!:p:

I read somewhere that the 6.4 with the two stage turbo peak torque is at 2000 rpm. The duramax is rated @ 1600 rpm. Don't you want your peak torque at lower rpms? It seems pretty pointless to have two turbos and no low end torque.........

yep thats exactly right, the dmax has balls down low and it makes a big difference in everyday driving and bigger diff pulling something.

All the things that have come up in this thread are the reasons why I now own a Duramax. I've had issues with all three past toys in my signature. I love the dmax and I got better mileage on my second tank than I got doing the same trip the week before with a powerchoke with 53k on it. I hope it can only get better from there. After actually owning a dmax I wish I hadn't been so dumb for the last 5 yrs.
Your honesty is refreshing... Admitting your missguided past is the first step to redemption, and you have rewarded yourself with a Duramax, don't look back dude, the future is now....WELL DONE!!!

Typical Ford BS compare a F450 to a chevy 3500 maybe they think those numbers are part of GMs trim package. They have been saying for years that F150 are the number one selling trucks in America. However if you add the GMC numbers to the Chevy numbers that is not the case.

Typical Ford BS compare a F450 to a chevy 3500 maybe they think those numbers are part of GMs trim package. They have been saying for years that F150 are the number one selling trucks in America. However if you add the GMC numbers to the Chevy numbers that is not the case.

:agreed: Here's one for those simple minds. (Ford boys)

F-150 = GM1500
F-250 = GM2500
F-350 = GM3500
F-450 = GM C4500 (Glorified Ford Pickup verses GM True Medium Duty)

Got these C4500 pics from a fellow member's garage. Awesome Truck!
Which would you prefer to safely move a large load.!!!

Nice truck man, wish I could keep one of those in my driveway but the city would ticket me if I did.:( :agreed: Here's one for those simple minds. (Ford boys)

F-150 = GM1500
F-250 = GM2500
F-350 = GM3500
F-450 = GM C4500 (Glorified Ford Pickup verses GM True Medium Duty)

Got these C4500 pics from a fellow member's garage. Awesome Truck!
Which would you prefer to safely move a large load.!!!

Uh, that's a custom built truck. You can get an F650 pick-up. So what? No mass produced equivalent of the F450 PICKUP.

Thankfully, none of our GM trucks are "equivalent" to the mass produced fords:whip: :p:


:stirthepo

I really don't think Ford will be better than the Chevy because Ford guys have a problem with thinking that the Powerstroke is the best out there and really it's the worst.

Psssstt..... Ford sucks!!!

Uh, that's a custom built truck. You can get an F650 pick-up. So what? No mass produced equivalent of the F450 PICKUP.

And you can get a C5500 which blows away the F550 and C6500 which blows away the F650. And yes they are mass produced along with the C4500 so you better go out and gain a little knowledge before you come here and demonstrate your lack of it. Problem with Ford is they try to glorify a pickup truck instead of moving up to a true medium duty which GM does for highway safety reasons after the 3500 series. It you try to load load the F450 to it's max GCVWR the load will wag that truck all over the road and I know a couple of hot shot drivers who will attest to that. This is not the case with GM's C series trucks.

The way it works out GM's tow cap exceeds Ford in every apples to apples catagory. Of course the Ford boys don't like to here that and would much rather compare a F450 to a GM3500.

And you can get a C5500 which blows away the F550 and C6500 which blows away the F650. And yes they are mass produced along with the C4500 so you better go out and gain a little knowledge before you come here and demonstrate your lack of it. Problem with Ford is they try to glorify a pickup truck instead of moving up to a true medium duty which GM does for highway safety reasons after the 3500 series. It you try to load load the F450 to it's max GCVWR the load will wag that truck all over the road and I know a couple of hot shot drivers who will attest to that. This is not the case with GM's C series trucks.

The way it works out GM's tow cap exceeds Ford in every apples to apples catagory. Of course the Ford boys don't like to here that and would much rather compare a F450 to a GM3500.

:exactly:Why build half a truck like the F450 or F550, when you can go C5500 or C6500. Over glorifying a turck will cost Ford eventually. ( Lawsuits?? )

I know you guys will get a kick out of this...

We just purchased a new F-350 at work with the 6.4 twin turbo. My boss knows a lot of people so he managed to get one. 180 miles later a turbo blew, and let me tell you how happy I am it is under warrenty because that engine is shoe-horned in there! Thats Ford quality right there!

wow a 180 miles that sure didn't take long which one is it the small VV or the larger one

Uh, that's a custom built truck. You can get an F650 pick-up. So what? No mass produced equivalent of the F450 PICKUP.
It's not a custom built truck. Anybody can order one through GM dealer.

I think the new and mighty 6.4 will be a hit!!! :p: :p:

But seriously, 180 miles and already a turbo gone. Well what can i say, mine trucks CEL light came on as i was pulling of the lot...:D

its like the blind leading the blind around here. people, expand your horizons already. i could of bought a new HD, but id be settling for less. the only thing going for it is the powertrain. its too tight inside, the center console belongs in a cadillac, plastic shiny bumpers...the new HD is all Glamour. Glam truck. all sparkly and pretty, ready to be lifted with bad offset KMC's. etc. seems to be SOP for chevys these days. most work trucks i see are fords, at least in this neck of the woods.

the new HD is the new corvette...gold chain, nugget ring, mullet.

the new F-series are much more of a "truck". soviet style rugged. ive been over both trucks with a magnifying glass, the F250 is impressive.
forged aluminum 20 inch rims, look at the wheel wells...cmon please chevy, those squarish wells with the 16" steel/aluminum rims are a joke, listen to your customers, ford did. a real bumper and cab. solid front axel. the inside is awesome, best ever in a pick up. see how the center console is? doesnt connect to dash? i hate that in the chevy. look at the seats! the leather is wayyy higher quality than the HD. my 2007 Z06 vette interior is just as screwed. that cheap leather that thinks its vinyl. the ford motor and tranny do exactly what i ask of it. i expect it to be completely reliable. if not i dont care.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/587268-08-eye-candy.html

the new corvette has reinvented itself. i could of bought another porsche, but it wasnt the better car, this year its the Z06. so thats whats sitting in my garage. the best ford and the best chevy in their respective categories.

brand loyalty will either get you the best or the worst depending on who's on top. so its wise to shop around.

its like the blind leading the blind around here. people, expand your horizons already. i could of bought a new HD, but id be settling for less. the only thing going for it is the powertrain. its too tight inside, the center console belongs in a cadillac, plastic shiny bumpers...the new HD is all Glamour. Glam truck. all sparkly and pretty, ready to be lifted with bad offset KMC's. etc. seems to be SOP for chevys these days. most work trucks i see are fords, at least in this neck of the woods.

the new HD is the new corvette...gold chain, nugget ring, mullet.

the new F-series are much more of a "truck". soviet style rugged. ive been over both trucks with a magnifying glass, the F250 is impressive.
forged aluminum 20 inch rims, look at the wheel wells...cmon please chevy, those squarish wells with the 16" steel/aluminum rims are a joke, listen to your customers, ford did. a real bumper and cab. solid front axel. the inside is awesome, best ever in a pick up. see how the center console is? doesnt connect to dash? i hate that in the chevy. look at the seats! the leather is wayyy higher quality than the HD. my 2007 Z06 vette interior is just as screwed. that cheap leather that thinks its vinyl. the ford motor and tranny do exactly what i ask of it. i expect it to be completely reliable. if not i dont care.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/587268-08-eye-candy.html

the new corvette has reinvented itself. i could of bought another porsche, but it wasnt the better car, this year its the Z06. so thats whats sitting in my garage. the best ford and the best chevy in their respective categories.

brand loyalty will either get you the best or the worst depending on who's on top. so its wise to shop around.

Nice point about wheels and little things like that, i totally agree! But dont say my interior is "screwed up". I talk to a guy today with a new 06 Ford and he hates it, mainly the interior of it, and how it drives. So everyone has there own opinions...In my opinion, the new Super Dutys look like $H!t!!;) The 06 body looks ten times better....

Do you work for Ford or something??:confuzeld

I agree GM has cheap leather seats.

Wheels IMO are all glamour too. Both go down the road.

I new superduty is just plain a mess inside. Did they want circles or squares?
Did they need superduty on the grill and again on the dash. It is trying to reinvent a name that has since been tied to a POS PSD.

After Navistar has had problems with ford, who is going to eat the warranty, Ford, Navistar, your dealer or YOU?

I can't waite to blow by a new 6.4 pulling a camper up a steep hill.

Oh but you got yours chipped, I can't program mine or I'll blow it up and void my warranty. LOL

I have 2 more words for your eye candy. "GOOD LUCK"

ok im sorry your interior is not screwed up, it just needs help. im in the same boat as you! the general isnt known for interiors, is that ok to say here?

ive owned two chevy pick ups since 92. reason i owned them is i thought they were the better trucks at the time, and they were...better everything, the whole package. i was never a fan of the f-series with the 6.0l motor, didnt like the interior either. to my surprise, i am a fan of the new f-series. but thats just me and its personal opinion and the only reason im taking my time to post is that i find it curiously amusing that ford was able to crank out a good truck.

so you'll be driving your "dad's" truck when you blow by me? what tune will you be using? i think you should use the tony tune...tony the tiger, thats you.

flyingphish, good luck with your new truck.

thank you sir.

It's not a custom built truck. Anybody can order one through GM dealer.


I want one.:D

I wanted to touch on the increased tow capacity. Look at the numbers carefully. The Ford needs a 4.88 I think to get to 24500 lbs. Put a 4.88 in the GM products and you likley get the same tow rating. Notice also that peak torque is reached at 2000 RPM on the new 6.4L therefore you will always have a 4.10 in the Ford vs a 3.73 in a GM. So bottom line is that it is all in the numbers. Line em up and bet you would see no difference in power but lets here about the MPG on the Fords. That 4.88 or 4.56 ought to drag that down quite a bit. Bet you see a max of 10MPG.

It's funny to hear all the doom and gloom about Ford and Navistar, they have been making engines for Ford for how long? How Many? They have out sold Dodge and GM every year. Until the Duramax this would be a lonely forum. I have to say I do like the look of the Ford, I have had 2 D/A's and while I do like my truck, both had to go back to the dealer mulitple times the first 40,000, the 01, had all the gremlins.

That's one of the reasons I would wait on the 6.4, this will be Fords first year with common rail fuel injection, and I hope they did enough R&D to avoid what I went through. I still have to replace my Pitman arms after 80,000 miles of occasional towing there is a permenant clunk at low speeds, so I am open to other brands at this point. Though I will say the new Ford dash takes some getting used to. But the reat of the truck seems real rugged, and with the exception of the cummins, both Ford and GM aren't very user friendly in the engine bay.

I wanted to touch on the increased tow capacity. Look at the numbers carefully. The Ford needs a 4.88 I think to get to 24500 lbs. Put a 4.88 in the GM products and you likley get the same tow rating. Notice also that peak torque is reached at 2000 RPM on the new 6.4L therefore you will always have a 4.10 in the Ford vs a 3.73 in a GM. So bottom line is that it is all in the numbers. Line em up and bet you would see no difference in power but lets here about the MPG on the Fords. That 4.88 or 4.56 ought to drag that down quite a bit. Bet you see a max of 10MPG.


GM should put 4.10 or 4.88 in their truck.s then. That's how the truck comes, bottom line. Bash Ford all you want for that, but if it helps something sell, then so be it. That kind of stuff happens all the time. If I'm going to be towing that much, I'd want 4.88's. Ford is SMART for doing that.

the new HD is the new corvette...gold chain, nugget ring, mullet.

the new F-series are much more of a "truck". soviet style rugged.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/587268-08-eye-candy.html




LMFAO! So you are gonna shave your mullet off now?:D

As far as being a soviet style rugged truck, that sure explains why so many of the trucks end up in service bays;)

Hint Hint the Soviet union imploded, much like FORD seems to be doing.

Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one !!!!!! The other thing is LOOKS DOES NOT PULL 13000 lbs. uphill. :snipersmi GM OR GMC I will never buy. Ford FIRST. Dodge second. crapy chevy never. I will buy the dodge / cummins, not the flatmax!!!!!!!
this is the result of getting your Ford butt kicked by too many Chevies.:p: :p: :p:

Saw a white 08 dually sitting on the side of the road in Mo. today w/ the hood open and a tow truck in front of it. Maybe he just ran out of fuel:cool::cool:.

wow a 180 miles that sure didn't take long which one is it the small VV or the larger one

Larger of the 2, which I'm sure means it more expensive too.

Larger of the 2, which I'm sure means it more expensive too.
ya i would agree with that reasoning

I dont know if anyone noticed, but the rims on the 2008 Ford SRW are made in China......LOL I don't know if I want to be riding on rims from China with a full load......


I am not racist, cuz i am chinese.......

oh my god my FORGED aluminum rims are made in china? oh woe is me...

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or anything but I was wondering.

The General - for the most part - has stayed within a small range for the diesel engines in its trucks - 6.2L, 6.5L, 6.6L.

Ford - or rather Navistar - has varied wildly. They started - AFAIK - with the 6.9L engine, moved to the 7.3, then dropped all the way to 6.0L and are now back in the 6.4L range.

WTF? Such a huge discrepancy in displacement would seem odd. Why would they do this and/or why wouldn't GM do similar? I know the 6.6 LLY/LBZ/LMM engines are all direct injection (AFAIK) but there isn't much change in displacement from the IDI 6.5L engines.

oh my god my FORGED aluminum rims are made in china? oh woe is me...

Yeah, there is a guy selling factory take offs and its got a pic of the rims that says made in china.....

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or anything but I was wondering.

The General - for the most part - has stayed within a small range for the diesel engines in its trucks - 6.2L, 6.5L, 6.6L.

Ford - or rather Navistar - has varied wildly. They started - AFAIK - with the 6.9L engine, moved to the 7.3, then dropped all the way to 6.0L and are now back in the 6.4L range.

WTF? Such a huge discrepancy in displacement would seem odd. Why would they do this and/or why wouldn't GM do similar? I know the 6.6 LLY/LBZ/LMM engines are all direct injection (AFAIK) but there isn't much change in displacement from the IDI 6.5L engines.

well i'm not sure how correct i am on this but i think that when the 6.0 came out was when emissions started getting tougher on deisels, and ford/navistar figured that a smaller displacement engine with better technology could get much lower emissions while getting more power/milage... the milage part was wrong but everything else was right, and they went back up to the 6.4 so that they could further emissions restrictions while getting even more power out of their trucks, and the twin turbo design was not meant for power, it was meant for very little to no turbo lag... and also the 6.4 gets less mpg than even the 6.0, so pretty much i don't see the 6.4 lasting very long, i see them increasing to maybe 6.8 in the near future, or possibly not using navistar anymore and switching to cummins i heard? idk if that's true or just a rumor

well i'm not sure how correct i am on this but i think that when the 6.0 came out was when emissions started getting tougher on deisels, and ford/navistar figured that a smaller displacement engine with better technology could get much lower emissions while getting more power/milage... the milage part was wrong but everything else was right, and they went back up to the 6.4 so that they could further emissions restrictions while getting even more power out of their trucks, and the twin turbo design was not meant for power, it was meant for very little to no turbo lag... and also the 6.4 gets less mpg than even the 6.0, so pretty much i don't see the 6.4 lasting very long, i see them increasing to maybe 6.8 in the near future, or possibly not using navistar anymore and switching to cummins i heard? idk if that's true or just a rumor

I agree. I think if the 6.4 flops the way the 6.0 did, I really think Ford will end their relationship with Navistar, and contract somone else to build their diesels. 2010 will be an interesting year, since Dodges contract with Cummins runs out. Hopefully they will be Mercedes Powered after that. ( I still don't think i would buy one. ) We will have to wait and see.

I have heard many rumors about mercedes planning and currently designing thier own engine to put into a dodge. That will all but gurantee that I won't buy one. Now, if they kept the cummins and added the mercedes interior......hmmmmm..maybe. Or maybe they could come up with an AMG version of the diesel??? :confuzeld :confuzeld That would be interesting........ Now if Ferd picked up cummins, I might actually buy one of them thangs. I've always liked the looks of the SuperDuty's (the '08s are taking some getting used to). By the time they would market a cummins powered Ferd, I'd hope that they have moved away from the goofy-eyed look they have now.

I have heard many rumors about mercedes planning and currently designing thier own engine to put into a dodge. That will all but gurantee that I won't buy one. Now, if they kept the cummins and added the mercedes interior......hmmmmm..maybe. Or maybe they could come up with an AMG version of the diesel??? :confuzeld :confuzeld That would be interesting........ Now if Ferd picked up cummins, I might actually buy one of them thangs. I've always liked the looks of the SuperDuty's (the '08s are taking some getting used to). By the time they would market a cummins powered Ferd, I'd hope that they have moved away from the goofy-eyed look they have now.

I am the opposite way. I will NOT ever own anything Cummins Powered. I think Mercedes is superior to Cummins. However, if Dodges end up Mercedes powered, I still won't buy one. Not a Dodge fan, never have, never will be.

I have heard many rumors about mercedes planning and currently designing thier own engine to put into a dodge. That will all but gurantee that I won't buy one. Now, if they kept the cummins and added the mercedes interior......hmmmmm..maybe. Or maybe they could come up with an AMG version of the diesel??? :confuzeld :confuzeld That would be interesting........ Now if Ferd picked up cummins, I might actually buy one of them thangs. I've always liked the looks of the SuperDuty's (the '08s are taking some getting used to). By the time they would market a cummins powered Ferd, I'd hope that they have moved away from the goofy-eyed look they have now.

see i like the old powerstroke engines, not a fan of anything after '03, once the 6.0's came out... they get good gas milage (i get 18 mostly 35-55 mph) and i've always felt that they are pretty much bulletproof, the only problem is that the aftermarket for them sucks... there are barely any companies out there that make 7.3 stuff (but the number has been increasing hence the fact that the 7.3's are now the fastest aftermarket powerstrokes) but i've always like the fact that the cummins has an amazing aftermarket capability, but i think that i would rather be a one in a million dmax/cummins beater with a powerstroke than be a dime a dozen dmax/powerstroke beater with a cummins.... i like a challenge ;)
mercedes would be nice though haha, but idk how they would hold up in the big displacement diesel engine department, probably pretty decent, but would take a couple years to get up with the big dog psd's dmax's and cummins

Thank you, glasseater, for the explination. Sounds interesting.

I just can't wait until they provide us with a new Suburban diesel. I'm still seriously considering getting a '99, but then I'd really like a CRT design like in the current DMAX/Navistar/Cummins. In fact, a 'burb with a LBZ or an LMM and an Allison six-speed...


In any case, for those wondering about Mercedes diesels, keep in mind that they first started making diesel cars in the mid-30s and have been making heavy duty diesel trucks for a few years before that.

true but that was back when there wasn't really any competition at all in the diesel market (i didn't even know that diesel's existed in the mid-30's!) now there is so much competition in the diesel truck world it's mouth-dropping! but mercedes does have that huge technological advantage that comes from german engineering (they are german right?) so that should help every company out!

Yes, Mercedes is a German brand. They are located right outside of Stuttgart West Germany. I studied right near there in high school and in college.

I don't know how reliable their trucks are but I know their diesel cars are very reliable. I have one neighbor with an mid-80's 300D and one co worker who just sold his '86 300D. It had finally reached 400,000 miles so he figured he wanted something new, because he 'might' be having problems with the car.


I tried to get him to buy an Avalanche. :p: