I'm amazed at how one electrical system controls every function of the truck. How should I approach isolating systems? I want to do this because a bad ground on one curcuit shouldn't cause all the other to act up. I want to start with the batteries and isolate the charge from the alternator to a isolation plate where both battery positives could tie in. Perhaps use point contact resistors. It seems the stock setup is flawed in that a bad cell/connection can cause you headaches. the ignition wire also seems to be really sensitive to resistance tied in at the terminal connector on the passengerside battery. I'm an electrical novice, and I don't know what shouldn't be done so pipe up and give some opinions. I'd like to hear mdhorban on this especially.

upgrading from side post to top post with heavier wires and more grounds is where I would start, haven't dont it to this one yet, but it made a big difference in starting my old 6.2.

Side posts leak and corrode quick. top post is better for me as well.


You might wonder why I'd want to isolate my battery connections from the system. It's because everytime the system has a weak connection the turnsignals make the speedo jump, the batteries are not fully charged, the glowplugs don't cycle right and cranking speed is slow.


Also the ignition wire, which powers most systems of the truck, is tied in on these terminals and subject to their condition.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Found your post. From a electronic point of view isolated grounds is usually not a good thing. You usually want everything on a common ground and as TDG stated the bigger and more grounding the better.(Can't have to much ground) I am not familiar with the bad cell/connection causing headache, could you elaborate on this and the ignition wire? There are many ways of isolating a charge (Diodes, transformer,etc..?.. Depending) As far as isolating the charge from your alternator form the rest of the circuit I don't see any advantage. If you are trying to isolate or more so filter fluctations caused by the alternator then that is different. Let me know a little more details and I'll let you know what I can. Whatever the problem is though isolating the ground may fix but cause other problems. A good example of this (Fix one problem cause another) is I have been in contact with a individual (Thru PM's) and he notated that there was high voltage spikes coming from the fuel solenoid. Well any time a magnetic field collapses( Coil closing) it generates a spike. (Called flyback). Typically the way to clamp this spike is with a diode across the coil which he did put on. The only problem with this is that the nature of the diode is to feed the spike back thru the coil kinda like a self generating power supply. Because of this the spike will actually extend the on time of the coil by milliseconds (Depends on the coil exactly how long) Since the coil was turning on and off rapidly this basically kept the coil on. I'm sure it knocked the spikes out but caused another problem. This can be delt with another way and I still need to PM him back with a solution (Add a resistor and cap in parrallel to this diode. Snubber) but this is just a example of fixing one thing and causing another.

When I say isolate I mean relocate. I want to tie the power in to the ignition wire and from the alt away from the battery terminals on a junction plate or two if needed. Continual corrrosion of connections is causing concerns. Negatives seem to feel it too.


a little annecdote:


My dad had a dealership(courtesy) put on an alternator and they forgot to tighten the driverside battery positive when they finished and had it running already when he picked up. he drove home turned it off and in the morning it wouldn't start. The cable between the batteries had melted and this also caused the premature failure of the battery. dealership paid for a new battery and cable.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Side posts leak and corrode quick. top post is better for me as well.


You might wonder why I'd want to isolate my battery connections from the system. It's because everytime the system has a weak connection the turnsignals make the speedo jump, the batteries are not fully charged, the glowplugs don't cycle right and cranking speed is slow.


Also the ignition wire, which powers most systems of the truck, is tied in on these terminals and subject to their condition.





Ah you beat me to the post!


A weak connection is a weak connection. Isolating won't help because you will still have a bad connection.You would just isolate one part from being affected by this not everything. Wherever there is a circuit connection to ground is a potential problem.A bad ground on one part can cause power to find other ways to ground. My 93 gas suburban is a classic example of this. It ate up 3 heater cores before I found the bad ground. (Power going to ground thru the cooling system basically) I would go through the grounds on your truck and maybe even as TDG stated put a big gnarly GND wire on it. As I stated before you can't have to much or many grounds.

When I say isolate I mean relocate. I want to tie the power in to the ignition wire and from the alt away from the battery terminals on a junction plate or two if needed. Continual corrrosion of connections is causing concerns. Negatives seem to feel it too.





Boy you type fast. You beat me again!


I think I understand now. You want to get away from the corrosion of the battery terminals by running everything to a junction plate (Or something)and hopefully the junction plate will take the punishment. Well unfortunately power still has to feed to and from your batteries and a loose connection will still heat up and corode.(A lot of current here) There is not a simple way around this. I would have to think on this but other than tight connections there is no easy way!


Higher voltage is less cuurent. If you ran a 48v battery array with a step down regulator (12v) It would source the current saving your battery terminals. Not a easy fix though. In the future you will see 48v and possibly higher automotive systems as you do not have to have as thick of wiring.(Less current)

Just been informed it is dinner time. I'll be back!


QM I checked my PMs in the middle of this and thanks again!

This is what I've done so far.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/21D_batt.jpg


I sodered the + cable into the copper terminal and attached it to the top post. The ignition wire and starter wire are still in the stock position on the side post, something to work on when/if the side post starts leaking. My cranking speed has improved, starting seems painless.


Does this seem like a better connection to the crossover cable?

If you were depending on that Walt Disney Productions terminal pictured there on the battery side post, then it is no wonder you were dissatisfied with the electrical connectivity.


The simple fact that there are two (2) battery's in the engine bay should be hint enough - it takes power to start the engine.


Each time a Start is accomplished thru poor connection, high-current heat-induced oxidation contributes to an even worse connection for next time - ad infinitum......


Except, it ain't a infinite process - becomes very finite in humid climate and damp weather.


Add in simple copper corrosion resulting from sulphuric acid and hydrogen out-gassing, and yeah - you'll be asking if there isn't a better way.


Better way - crimped and soldered connections, directly clamped and tensioned via threaded fasteners.


Works every time....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

i was wondering if we could take some ideas from my fart pipe import friends and install a ground isolation system that basically is a round block with several ground wires comming off of it. this would eliminate poor ground connections to the block, pump,glowplug relay ect.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/5FC_hs_bluewire1b.jpg

I didn't do anythng like that but it's close to what I pictured. I replaced my braided ECM ground with a #6 sheathed copper wire with sodered on connectors. It's a start. Edited by: quantum mechanic

When I got my truck, it had batteries with European-style connectors installed, and the stock cables attached to them. These things didn't fit together, so the connection loosened over time, until I wasn't able to start the engine due to too much resistance at the connectors.

I cut off the stock connectors from the cables and installed standard battery connectors instead --- at least what's standard connectors here. The connectors are kind of heavy duty, as used on the big trucks. The more common smaller types wouldn't have allowed to attach as many cables as there are.

It works great, looks like this:


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/52A_battery-cut.jpg


(drivers side battery)
Edited by: 0lee

Picture the device in the center as having eight cylinders, an injection pump, and a turbo hanging off the side of it, and that pretty much dupicates the configuration.


Key is - keeping all those connections clean, whether it be in the trunk or in the engine bay.


I've seen a few of those things back in the trunk, amongst empty pop-a-tops, oily old jeans, moldy swimwear\towels, fishing tackle, etc - guy wondering why his boom-mobile kept (choose one or more) melting batterys, blowing fuses, smoking speakers.


I've also seen 6.5 PCM\engine harnesses corroded, pinched to a strand or two, broken\twisted together, pulled out of crimped connector\jammed back in with brads, bobby pins, etc.


Not a pretty sight......


Detail it and keep it clean - you won't regret it.

Lee,


Do you have the whole fuseblock connected off the driver's side battey terminal? I think a connection like that would attract corrosion over time, but they all do.

QM,

I just cut off the stock battery connectors of the cables and installed the ones you see on the pic.

All batteries we get here have the top mounted connectors on them like on the ones I have. You can get Delco batteries with side mounted connectors that fit to the stock cables, but they are about twice the price of our standard type.

A couple of cables have been added later, mainly a cable going into the cabin to get decent power (the black one with the large fuse in it), and another two or so for fog lamps (red ones).

The connection of the fuse block is unchanged. I don't know how it's connected to the batteries.

Corrosion of the connections is no problem at all --- I'm not sure why yours should corrode. I can imagine that you get erosion on the connectors if they are not sitting tight, but loose connectors won't do any good anyway :)

Which of your connectors do corrode? The ones on the battery cables or others, too?


PS: Afair, there are only three ground connections: One from each battery to the corresponding side of the block, one from the battery on the passenger side to the hull(?) of the truck. There can be others I haven't seen yet, though. Another connector bridges from the block or so to the frame.

I do not trust very much in the available ground connections. For any device that needs significant amounts of current, I would use a dedicated ground wire.

For example, the power cable going into the cabin was planned to be used for a coffee maker, and I would need a second cable to have a good ground connection if I ever get the coffee maker. Currently, only the fridge box is connected to the power cable, but it only draws about 4 amps, so no additional ground wire is required yet.


Hm, the connectors on the batteries are made of lead, so they cannot corrode like iron. The battery connectors on the cables are galvanized (with zinc), so they don't corrode either.

The stock connectors seemed to be built very 'lightweight' to me, insufficiently dimensioned for the currents they should flow. The connection plate is very thin, the same is the screw.
Edited by: 0lee

lee,


You have alot of wires I don't have. I've never seen one like it but I've only seen a few.

Ja, some wires have been added, fog lamps, power to cabin, fan on the FSD cooler, supply for lift pump relay.

They just happen to be all on the drivers side; the passenger side is less crowded.

Those battery connectors are quite helpful with that :)

Can you get the type of batteries I have in your area? If you can and if you need new ones, it may be worth thinking about switching to that type.

Replacing the connectors on the cables is easy, the only thing is that the ground cable going from the drivers side battery to the block has become a bit short.

I can try to make a better picture tomorrow or so --- the above one is only a cut from some picture I made to show something else.
Edited by: 0lee

I switched my dad's '96 to top posts.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/A6A_batts.jpg


I cut the terminal ends off the stock cables. total cost ~$120 for two 740 cca batteries and two sets of replacement terminals.


I would like to eventuall duplicate a grounding harness like the one above. It will probably cure intermittent electrical problems.Edited by: quantum mechanic

You've got nice terminal ends there :)

Now you can start to add some accessory cables like I did ;)

WHEN I SWITCH TO TOP TERMINALS I WANT TO USE MARINE GRADE ENDS I THINK THAT WOULD HELP THE CORROSION ISSUE EVEN MORE.

I would go get 00 cable and crimped or soldered connections. Most auto parts and truck supply houses can make them up for you. I have installed sets like this on my past diesel's in Alaska and been trouble free, faster starts even at -40 below and colder. The big cable means more of the battery power makes it to the items needing it.

Hm, how do marine ends look like?

There's a special kind of grease available you put on the terminals to protect them from something, probably corrosion. I've never used or needed it.

It's called 'Polfett' in German, how do you call it in English?


http://www.yachtsurvey.com/batteries.htm


PS: QM, the side mounted poles stick out of the batteries unprotected. Maybe you should cover them with some plastic shield or so to prevent a short circuit. Shorting the poles would lead to some impressive results, like welding holes into the body, melting the cables, setting the truck on fire or exploding batteries ...

If you, for example, accidentially drop a wrench on the poles and short them, the wrench will start to glow immediately. On a short, you'll get about 2000 amps or so out of a battery, for a short time.
Edited by: 0lee

the marine ends look like they are made of brass or something similar in color. i just figured if you wanted corrosion resistance then the marine folks would be the ones to look to.