Well since i now own a 2000 6.5 thats still on warranty for a few more kms i have a question. Will the dual breathers in anyway harm the engine?


Still have warranty and want to be careful here.

no danger in hurting the engine, its the emissions people that won't like to see them. If you take it to a dealer or for E-test, just put it back to normal.

If you want to be 'Careful'... Don't do it.


By replacing the CDR with a breather, you are no longer helping to evacuate the crankcase. No matter how slight, a pressure is developed in the crankcase. Long term may have affect.


You are not going to make any power by doing this. Regardless of what some say. Lower Intake Air Temps? Give me a break. What's the difference between 150* without a CDR to 155* with a CDR?


Would you eliminate a PCV valve on your gasser?


It's there for a reason. If you want to do some good, redirect into exhaust, POST-TURBO.

Hmmmm...


1 for it and 1 against it. 50/50. I understand TDG's way of thinking, more combustible air would make more power. As for lower IAT's not much difference there. Re-direct into exhaust after turbo, would that not possibly send exhaust gasses back into the crankcase creating an overpressure then? Have you measured the pressure on the exhaust near the turbo, it can't be a vacuum there with the turbo pushing out the tail pipe.

fine, take that new 00 truck and pipe that hot oily gritty stuff right into the intake, and don't tell me its not, I've seen a lot of 6.5 intakes, and I have yet to see one that was not black as coal and oily inside. pulled the upper plenum off mine the other day and she's bone dry inside, looks just like it did when I pulled it out of the bead bleaster. Yeah the breathers may drip, a little, but how many turbo inlet and outlet hoses and manifolds out there are dripping with oil?

CR,


There would be a short positive pressure pulse into an exhaust routed CDR at start up. Once the gases get flowing out of the tailpipe, the pressure will drop and pull on the CDR pipe. Have you ever seen a steam ejector work?


Make it two (at least) against the Dual Breather super duper chrome set-up. It's rather ridiculous.Edited by: ronniejoe

CR,


There would be a short positive pressure pulse into an exhaust routed CDR at start up. Once the gases get flowing out of the tailpipe, the pressure will drop and pull on the CDR pipe. Have you ever seen a steam ejector work?


Make it two (at least) against the Dual Breather super duper chrome set-up. It's rather ridiculous.





Ya Know


this was what the expert were saying about some of the most basic mods we do now for more power, ie.. air filter, downpipe, etc... I bet

Canadian rigger, Texas Diesel Guy, and others - that black sooty stuff the intake is clogged up with is from the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system on the 1500 and some 2500 trucks.


It is actually black soot, which Diesel exhaust is well known for.


Black smoke, no power - ring a bell?


No way does that come out of the crankcase, or something is drastically wrong.


Won't find it in the 2500HD or the 3500 trucks, with no EGR.


Where the filtration service schedules were ignored, you will find gritty, dirty, dusty substance mixed with the oil from crankcase vapor, but it is just that - dirt and dust from poor maintenance routine.


And that oil in the intake does not damage anything, or detract from normal power, within limits.


Diesel fuel is light oil - what's it hurt to mix a little more oil vapor with it?


Limits - excess crank vapor, from really bad cylinder wall wear, can cause the vehicle to surge, easily noticeable under Cruise conditions.


Now, a surge would tend to indicate more power, not less, right?


Anybody?


The top compression ring was re-designed for the 6.5L turbo engines, exactly as the top-fuel dragsters required.


High cylinder pressure - blown, nitro-fueled combustion events on the dragsters, compression\combustion pressures in Diesel - require a ring that seals based on the pressure it is exposed to.


The greater the pressure, the greater the seal.


The 6.5L rings are locking, full circle rings - blow-by is virtually non-existant in a functional engine, and will remain so many thousands of miles with factory-prescribed maintenance.


Barring, of course, repeated over-heating, and occasional overheating with loss of coolant - results in excessive cylinder wall wear.


Diesel oils are formulated for high pressure, high temperature service, far exceeding automotive oils.


Running automotive oil in the crankcase will result in more oil vapor, as the oil passes thru the turbo bearings, where the exhaust side averages 600deg.


Automotive oils were not formulated for turbo temperature.


Use of automotive oil results in great levels of oil vapor, sometimes confused with 'blow-by'.


With the advent of turbo-charged autos, manufacturers were forced to specify higher temp-rated oils, but they still do not meet Diesel service oil specs.


So - worried about the sooty oil in your intake manifold?


Tune up your EGR - pull the upper intake plenum, clean and test the EGR valve, make sure it's not constantly bypassing.


A note here - EGR system is based on normal oem Boost levels, which result from normal exhaust pressures.


The spring is specifically calibrated.


Increase Boost levels, exhaust pressure rises accordingly, and EGR valve will unseat, bypassing exhaust into intake manifold, resulting in surging and low power complaints, even tho Boost has been 'jacked up' for more power.


Worried about the clear oil in your intake manifold?


Why?





Edited by: gmctd

Gotta question related to this debate, or maybe a few. I just did some figuring of the volume of this engine, and roughly speaking you are pumping about 450+ cfm through an engine at 2000 rpm (if only going by displacement, and not figuring in boost, and the like) Out of that much air moving through the engine, what percentage of that will be coming up and out of the CDR? I know that's a variable dependant upon the amount of blowby out of a given engine, but tops, what are we truly looking at here?


I can see where, especially in TX, you would like to keep the heat down as much as possible coming into the engine, but, what is the gain being made in temperature? I am only asking, not trying to get anyone here in an uproar, but, has anyone tested, or have any numbers one what the gain is?


Next question, if you are reducing the crankcase pressure, aren't you increasing HP? If my thinking is correct, then your pressure difference from the combustion side of the piston will be even greater if the pressure is lowered in the crankcase. How low can you go in crankcase pressure? Is there a lower limit? Will there be harm done if taken too low?


What is the purpose of the CDR anyway? Why not straight pipe off the the top of the engine and into the intake? Why does it need to be regulated?


How much vacuum can this steam ejector principle make on this engine anyway? Sounds neat, wanna know more.

Read my post, largely ignored, on "CDR-PCV, what's it all about, Alfalfa?"


Title may be sung to the tune of "What's it all about, Alfie?"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


And ~400cfm at 3000rpm is closer to correct.

I just saw your new post a few minutes ago about your truck flowing more air. My numbers were a bit fudged together to get an idea, certainly not scientific. Tanks for de info.

Hopefully, it may convince folks that their engines will breathe freer and cooler from that source, rather than plugging that 3/4"dia hole from the crankcase, which severely over drafts the ~6" by ~4" air filter box opening.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

The 6.5L rings are locking, full circle rings - blow-by is virtually non-existant.....Worried about the clear oil in your intake manifold?....


what planet are you on man? have you ever actually worked on one of these trucks or do you work on theory alone? That black soot is passed into the crankcase by blow-by mixed with the oil or out the CDR and back into the intake. HDs don't have as much of a problem as the LDs do, but there's not one of them on the road with 'clear oil' in the crankcase much less the intake.

The 6.5L rings are locking, full circle rings - blow-by is virtually non-existant.....Worried about the clear oil in your intake manifold?....


what planet are you on man? have you ever actually worked on one of these trucks or do you work on theory alone? That black soot is passed into the crankcase by blow-by mixed with the oil or out the CDR and back into the intake. HDs don't have as much of a problem as the LDs do, but there's not one of them on the road with 'clear oil' in the crankcase much less the intake.

I was kinda wondering hte same thing.. i do know that my 94 HD 6.5L has a bit of blowby.. but the oil is BLACK.. the upper intake is BLACK AND OILY..

maybe you have some super duper wednesday factory freak 6.5L engineering sample long life nasa sponsored truck.. but i sure as hell don't.

As for the turbo and oil temps..

I run my cars exhaust EGT's around 1450 degrees F pre-turbo.. sometimes they'll approach 1500 on long pulls.. the oil holds up FINE.. (amsoil 5w30).. seems to be quite a bit hotter than the 1100 degrees the diesel guys seem to swear by.

although i'm probably not going to go to a full breather like TDG.. i am probably going to go with a catch can setup to reduce the amount of oil entering the turbo.

-- WheatKing

ALL I know was when I removed the EGR valve from my LD 6.2 and installed an HD intake on it my intake stayed clean. Unlike before when it was dirty and oily. Just my .02 worth

Ever hear of distillation, where vapors condense clear, leaving the unwanteds in the pot?


Ash sediment, too heavy for vapor, tends to stay within the liquid oil in the sump, giving it that dark color.


So, let me be clearhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifon that statement -


Worried about that clear, with slightly dark tinge to it, easily distinguishable from EGR sludge, oil in your intake?


Why?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


'Course, I do change the oil before it assumes that thick, black, opaque sludge look.


Doesn't every one?


And, sometimes, it is on a Wednesday, and I ain't too far from NASA when I do it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Nuke.gif


Black sludge in your intake is EGR.


Otherwise it would be on the compressor inlet and blades, where the CDR source is tapped in.


I have seen long-period damaged compressor blades, grungy, scarred, where the inlet ducting had the same grunge in it where it joined the air filter box, as did the box itself.


Mighty powerful CDR draft, to blow back against intake flow, around the curve, and into the filter box. And from an initial 90deg angle vantage point, at that.


But, I rather suspect personal cleanliness was not important to that owner, either.


So, Wheatking - define Amsoil 5w30, and it's relationship to Dino oil.....


I'm still learning at 63yrs, Texas Diesel Guy - I would hope that, at only 24yrs, you can too.....

You guy's are GREAT and thats what makes this site stand out above countless others. No bashing one another, just plain old down in the pits opinions.


I have read these posts over and over but still seem to be lacking here... IAT's are not a big issue with this modification, the issue that needs solving here is... is the air taken from the CDR very combustable? I don't believe it has the same combustable properties as the intake air has coming through the filter set-up as its been pre-heated already, combusted and blown by a little into the crankcase, cooler air from either the stock filter set-up or intercooled air in my opinion will have a much better burn creating more power, period.


Weather or not this increase is measurable i couldn't say without a dyno and i simply don't have one or access to one.


The initial question was will it hurt the engine? By the looks of it so far i'd have to say no... will it hurt the enviroment? Probably, but you guy's changing your oil at home and dumping it down the gutter will do far more damage than this modification ever will http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif.


I don't have stats available but from my experience if one was to put the CDR into the exhaust it would have a positive pressure from the exhaust unless it was located at the tip of the tail pipe IMO. The longer the tunnel with the pump at the begining of the tunnel the more pressure at the begining of the tunnel, we call it friction pressure here, after all if friction wasn't an issue we wouldn't be putting 3 or 4" pipes on these things now would we?


Also for the poor maintainence part, clear oil? In a diesel? Maybe if it was changed every 5 miles it might eventually clean up, other than that, no comment.


Try tying a white rag around your CDR outlet and drive for 5 miles and then tell me your oil is clear.


TDG i think your on the ball with the breathers so why not put the old set-up back on (factory) and grab a couple of quick times for us and put this issue to rest.


But i still wanna know what, will this mod hurt anything? Like blowing seals out the crank, blowing oil out the dipstick, etc... If not then i think i'm all for it.

I've been on the planet for 41 years, not 60 or more so i still have a lot to learn but i didn't know you can distill oil as you speak? (water, yes, oil... not sure about) If that sludge is in your oil pan i'm sure the pump is moving it faster than it can settle therefore pumping it through the engine creating even more of a problem? Just an opinion.

It won't blow any seals but it will leave a mark where you park.


I agree with TDG that it will keep your intake oil free.


My oil stays clear for a day after I change it.

Moving fluids (air, water, etc.) have lower pressure than static fluids. As the velocity increases, static pressure decreases.


Drive down the road at 60 mph. Crack your window open about a half inch. Hold a feather up next to the opening near the front. See which way the feather goes.

Correct - removing the CDR will prevent hot oil vapors from condensing in the intake each time it cools down to ambient.


Also, do not send an oil sample in for analysis after installing those hi-perf breathers, particularly any of you folks living in rural areas.


If you're not aware of a problem, you won't waste precious time worrying about it.


First time I changed oil, and checked it a few days later, I was shocked to see the oil had darkened - really hurt my feelings, as I knew I do better work than that, this planet or any other.


My bro, an old 18-wheeler wrangler, showed me to look at the oil on the dipstick - when the script cannot be seen thru the oil, it's past time to change the oil.


Or, change oil - RPM Delo darkens quicker, Shell Rotella stays translucent longer - in my Nasa hump-day engine.


Ronniejoe just also described theory of operation of a radial centrifugal compressor, which you got on your trucks.


Spin the intake air up fast, fast, faster, 120,000rpm, put a duffuser wall in the works - reduces the velocity , increases pressure.


20psi Boost, easy.

knkreb


You can bring crankcase pressure down to a negative. That would be a vacuum. Vacuum in the crankcase makes horsepower. Pressure in the crankcase does not. A Factory CDR set-up will prevent crankcase pressure.


Harm WILL be done if taken too low. By too low, I mean below 15in.hg or more. Seals and gaskets will be sucked in over time and oil pressure will suffer slightly.


Make no mistake, the power improvement that WILL be made, or the power DECREASE from the 'Dual Breather Miracle' will NOT be seen or felt on the ASS-DYNO. These gains or losses will only be visible on a REAL DYNO.


ASS-DYNO's are good for Computer Reflashes, Chips, Intercoolers, WMI, Propane, and stuff like that.


By the way, when is this 'Optical Sensor Repositioned', 'Turned-Up Injector Pump', 'Dual Breather Miracle', Blazer gettin' Dyno'd? With all these mods, it might break the Dyno.


I'm curious on the results.


Keep them Revs up, TDG. I wouldn't want it to STALL when they engage the rollers...

fine tomorrow when I go in to do some other work, I'll take readings from IAT sensor, w/CDR and w/breathers to see how much temp difference there is, Billman is right, only a dyno would be suitable to detect an admittedly very minor change in performance, but the temp/oxy content change will be quite dramatic compared to the difference in ˝lb psi with the breathers vs ˝" vacuum in the crankcase from the CDR. And no, don't have a manometer either, I'm just venturing a guess.


But if its say 10 degrees cooler, that means you'll stay out of the fuel cutback area longer and not make more power, but not have the computer rob you of any. We'll see ;)

ASS-DYNO's are good for Computer Reflashes, Chips, Intercoolers, WMI, Propane, and stuff like that.


By the way, when is this 'Optical Sensor Repositioned', 'Turned-Up Injector Pump', 'Dual Breather Miracle', Blazer gettin' Dyno'd? With all these mods, it might break the Dyno.


I'm curious on the results.


Keep them Revs up, TDG. I wouldn't want it to STALL when they engage the rollers...





SPEAKING of being curious, where's your dyno breaking numbers Billman ?

Good Point. Never claimed to have any.


Just tryin' to shovel some of this BS out of the way...


There are too many gullible people here that might believe this stuff.


Now that you mention it, How are those new breathers workin' for ya? Sounds like you're a believer too.

Like I said, I'll post the IAT results tomorrow, anyone who tries it should have similair results.

Good Point. Never claimed to have any.


Just tryin' to shovel some of this BS out of the way...


There are too many gullible people here that might believe this stuff.


Now that you mention it, How are those new breathers workin' for ya? Sounds like you're a believer too.








wouldn't say I'm a believer but TDG seems to be ahead of most of us on the working of the pump, so I like to sit back and listen and learn I hope. My truck still stock but that should change as soon as I get home in 2 weeks from vegas. I take inputs from everyone, From RJ to TDG and see what fits best for me. I can't do a piston swap so I want all I can get from the outside

I never argued that he didn't know his way around a pump. I don't know for sure because I've never been inside one. But after the injector pump, He's ahead of Nobody.


He claims were not building 'Gas Dragsters' here but wants to do 0-60 mph as fast as he can. Diesel trucks are measured how well they can pull a load. How well does his pull?


Dual Breather theory claimed to feel improvement within driving a few minutes. You're kidding right. Now he's measuring IAT's. He is correct in saying they will be lower than with the CDR. Let's say it is 10 degrees cooler with the breathers. It will theoretically keep the ECM from pulling fuel until it reaches those extra 10 degrees. When pulling a trailer and building boost approaching that IAT mark, or measuring 0-60mph(Why I have no idea) How long do you think it will take to reach 10 more degrees. 5-10 seconds. IAT's rise real quick in these trucks.


My Self-Defeating CDR equipped Intercooled Truck NEVER pulls fuel back.


Optical sensor repositioned. Once again, I'm not familiar with these pumps. Another drive it and feel it. Give me a break. Show the difference on a Dyno. I changed my resistor from a #4 to a #9. No change in driving although Tech II showed slightly more fuel.


Now I have Reflashed ECM. Big-Big change in power.


Well, he doesn't believe any of these mods are worth it either. Only his low dollar miracle modifications will get you more power. Then all the little schoolgirls run out and do what he says. Chrome Breathers are on National Backorder I read somewhere.


Then somebody with Half-A-Brain questions his theorys on these mods. Now he's checking his IAT's and soon will visit the Dyno. I also believe he claimed 240 RWHP. He needs to support his theorys and be consistant in what he says.


You're 41 years old. You're a smart guy. You've been around the block a few times. The choice is yours.


God Bless America.


I'm gettin' rid of my shovel and goin' for a Plow...

Just leave the breather unless you plan to design a high efficiency oil separator. It would be nice to get the vapors out, especially for intercooled diesels., but all it is doing is adding a light film, and combusting the blowbty gasses. You're not going to see cleaneroil by any measureable standard





Billman,


Now all you need is a big stack of washers under the rear of the hood mount plate...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif





Encoder advance? YES it adds FUEL, NOT timing. Timing is still referenced by the crank position sensor. The moving of the encoder makes the pedal more responsive, BUT this also causes the auto tracns shift points to fall much earlier which can be a PITA when towing, and can smoke like crazy. Been there, done that.

I beg to differ Kennedy, it does advance timing, the computer closes the FSOL on Cam Pulse, and when you advance it, that pulse now closer to the ramp so your adding fuel to the beginning of injection. By my calculations/observations on the test bench, every 3ccs above the optic sensor set point is approx 1 degree pump. Obviously you can't take this adjustment too far or you will lose power/balance at high RPM because the poppet will close after the rollers have hit the ramp. You would have to keep closure times in the lower end of the spectrum (like say 1.75 or less) if you wanted to go more than about 5ccs, but, above that, idle quality, driveability and performance would suffer anyway. The resistor drop trims the end of injection so you don't get so much black smoke, I haven't experienced any of the tranny problems you mentioned, everything seems to be normal, but I could certainly see it being a problem if you were to go way too far with it.


I know you own a fuel shop, and I"m not questioning how well you know the system or these trucks, but I'm sure that if you really research this a little you'll agree with me. Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Reuben, I'm not TDG, obviously, but I can give you some factual data that you might want to consider while making a decision on this debate.


Under your hood is a 400cuin air pump.


We start the pumping process with an electric motor, add some fuel in the appropriate stoichiometric ratio into the mix, provide an ignition source, and we get combustion.


Air, as we breathe it, contains about 20% oxygen and 80% other stuff. Our bodies need oxygen to burn for energy, but we make due with that 20%.


Fortunately, for us More Power mine's faster'n yours Macho competitive-type guys, that other 80% can come in mighty handy.


As that fuel and oxygen burn fiercly under high compression, it creates tremendous heat - heat which results in tremendous expansion of that 80% other stuff.


Anything moveable in that closed area is gonna move - down goes the piston, 90deg later comes another event in the next cylinder, and 90, and 90, and...etc.


That's right - you got a big ole hot air motor - nothin' but a pneumatic motor, just like Ingersoll-rand, Chicago Pneumatic, Rockwell, etc.


Except, we're not tied down to an air hose, plugged to some source of hi-pressure air.


It's an air pump - as the pistons displace the air in the cylinder above the piston, so also does it displace the air below the piston, in the crankcase.


Up and down, up and down - it's dynamic.


If it were a single cylinder, the crankcase pulsations would be easily noticeable, as outside air were drawn in on the up-stroke, then pushed out on the down-stroke.


Multi-cylinder, it's there, just more difficult to define.


Where am I heading with this, you might ask......


As you motor down the hiway with this big, independent air motor, it's doing it's dynamic thing - up, down, up down, in out, in out.


So, lets put a breather cap on the oil filler tube, and one on the passenger-side valve cover, making this in-out flow of air easier.


Cool in, hot out, cool in, hot out - should help lower operating temperatures, right?


As you're motoring down the motorway, your vehicle is also displacing the air it's moving thru - 16 cubic feet per foot, 95,000 cubic feet per mile.


Might tend to create a hi-pressure area at the front of the vehicle, right? Right where we put an engine coolant heat exchanger to take advantage of that hi-pressure air flow.


And a humonguous fan to assist in that flow thru the radiator, when necessary.


Cool.


One disadvantage of that system is - as air passes thru the radiator, so does anything in that air, including dust and dirt kicked up by the vehicle in front of you.


Makes no difference whether it's a Volkswagen or a dump truck, it's kicking up anything and everything on the road - and right thru your engine compartment..


So, we got a hi-pressure area in front of the vehicle, and a low pressure area under the vehicle, and flow-thru is in the front, across and around the engine, down, and out.


Now, remember that Chrome 45hp breather cap we stuck on the oil filler tube? An oil filler tube that previously had a tight-fitting, gasketed solid filler cap, intended to exclude that dirty hi-pressure flow from the crankcase?


Directly in that hi-pressure blast from the coolant fan, isn't it? A fan which intensifies normal flow thru the radiator.


And, remember that second 45hp Chrome breather cap we stuck into the Passenger-side valve cover?


Hi-pressure at the front of the engine bay, low pressure at the rear - what flow dynamics do you think those two breather caps will conform to?


Any possiblity exist that a whole bunch of that dirty air flow will make it's way into the hi-pressure area front cap, down thru the crankcase, then up and out the low pressure area valve cover cap?


If not a whole bunch, then some?


How about even a little?


Filter cap? Don't make me laugh, dude!


Some little concern concerning easily damaging a 10,000 do

the breathers are only open on the underside, a cross flow of air would, if anything only assist in drawing air out, even if 'some' did blow in its not like its just an open hole to suck dirt into the motor, its an oil soaked filter, much like the ones most of us here put in our filter box.

I'm an old hotrodder from way back, TDG - had my share of the breathers on polished cast aluminum valve covers, dump tube down the back of the engine, over the bellhousing.


Engines required a lot more rebuilding, back then, before filtered emissions systems.


60,000mi would be in dire need of rings and bearings.


Check your PM.

GMTCD I know all the princables of diesel inners and outers. I have benn a Cummins tech for 6 years. Before that I was 6.2 6.5 tech for Galles chevrolet. I do like the humor, but give the guy a breake he just sharing. If he's got an idea lets here it. If you got an idea I want to here it. I think ronneijoe has great ideas. I to have put alot of money inte my 6.5,and think I have good setup. All I am saying is lets not get on each othor for some crazy ideas that might work for us. This is a great forum, but some times it seems some people think they are the only ones that have been around the block.

After having used the breathers, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of CV venting but I still like the idea of altering the system from stock.


I like the idea of vacuum on the crankcase as well. I'm going to work on condensing the oil vapor before it returns to the intake. This should help to keep down what heat the CV adds to IAT and reduce the amount of oil I'm burning .

why not just run a piece of heater hose from the CDR to a bottle on the side, air escapes, oil is collected.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

I post to include those that have no experience, Reuben - those that will be wondering what, why, where, when.


Now, they too may have some info to make a more informed decision.


TDG knows the DS4, no question about that.


But what he don't know - and this is just between you and me, right? - is each time he posts about it, other things I've had questions about begin to make sense.


See, even at 63, I'm still on a learning curve, and it's still fun.

I want to pull it under a vacuum into a condenser. what I found from my low buck experimental model was that there's little chance to collect it without the heat exhange and volume of a condensing core. i'll plumb it into the CDR retun port for vacuum.

That just might work, you would need a sealed container with 2 approx 3/4" fittings at the top and some 3/4 heater hose. Pipe the crankcase air to it, oil will settle in the bottom and air will be drawn into the intake and you can still have a partial vacuum on the crankcase.

The valve cover has a condenser in it, below the CDR cannister - a screen mesh enclosed in a 'fence'.


As moisture-laden vapor pases thru the mesh, the heavies settle out onto the mesh element.


Might 'condense' better if valve cover is cleaned with Berryman's carb cleaner.

yeah, the valve cover has what looks like a steel wire kitchen scrubber stuffed in it, but from the looks of most 6.5 turbos that have oil dripping from the compressor wheel, its not the most efficient collecting media. Perhaps stuffing the collector with something similair would help it a little too though. I'd like to see one just to see how much oil it picks up.

I cleaned mine real well when I resealed the valvecover overthere. I was wondering why the dripping CDR line hadn't returned.


gmctd,


I hear you have a clean engine bay, like spit and polish clean. I'd like to get a look before you put in a cummins.

I'm done with the R&D requiring the EGR-type upper plenum, so I'm pulling it off and donating it to Turbine Doc.


The non-EGR cover needs two additional 1/8" npt taps - Boost and IAT.


I'll take pictures with the lower intake plenum open, let you judge for yourself.

I beg to differ Kennedy, it does advance timing, the computer closes the FSOL on Cam Pulse, and when you advance it, that pulse now closer to the ramp so your adding fuel to the beginning of injection. By my calculations/observations on the test bench, every 3ccs above the optic sensor set point is approx 1 degree pump. Obviously you can't take this adjustment too far or you will lose power/balance at high RPM because the poppet will close after the rollers have hit the ramp. You would have to keep closure times in the lower end of the spectrum (like say 1.75 or less) if you wanted to go more than about 5ccs, but, above that, idle quality, driveability and performance would suffer anyway. The resistor drop trims the end of injection so you don't get so much black smoke, I haven't experienced any of the tranny problems you mentioned, everything seems to be normal, but I could certainly see it being a problem if you were to go way too far with it.


I know you own a fuel shop, and I"m not questioning how well you know the system or these trucks, but I'm sure that if you really research this a little you'll agree with me.








But how does the test bench "test" compare to the GM computer commands?


There is NO direct comparison, as there is no crank sensor is there? The way I understand the test stand is that it simply does what Stanadyne programmed it to do in it's "second language" so Stanadyne uses the optic. I do not own a fuel shop, but a buddy that I went to High School with (auto shop even) has been in the family business





My take is that the crank position sensor callls for the timing of the event. Advancing the reluctor advances timing. If the encoder were controlling it, then it would not affect it. The encoder IS used for timing, but only as a back up if the crank sensor is lost.

Yes, there is a hall effects sensor for the test bench, and a tone wheel on the drive hub for the pump to adjust/measure timing on the test bench, its identical to the crank sensor on the trucks. It is 0ed before and after the optic sensor adjustment and by comparing flows and how far you have to adjust the 0 is how I arrived at my calculations. The cam pulse IS the SOI (start of injection signal) on the truck and the bench, the timing is measured on both by comparing time lapse between cam pulse and corresponding crank pulse. The truck will go into limp mode and rely on the crank sensor if cam pulse is unavailable. The comparison is identical, the pump is calibrated so X fuel demand from the computer = X delivery from the pump its that simple. Setting the optic gets you close, a series of 9 fuel delivery readings @ 3400, 2000 and 600 fine tunes it to a calibration resistor so the demand/delivery is very precise. Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

I thought the encoder and crank were compared aganst each other and the PCM adjusted timing based on the difference. moving the encoder rearward adjusts this to a greater distance, and timing advances. TDC offset seems to be "programming the CPS" to read earlier and timing advances.


I would think there should be a happy medium of both advances.

don't confuse interal advance movent of the pump with Setting the base timing. During operation the PCM reads the Cam and Crank pulse, calculates that to what advance the pump is at and adjusts the stepper motor to correspond to the advance it wants. Moving the encoder sensor changes demand/delivery ratio so that X demand = X + however much more fuel you deliver now with the new setting, this fuel is added to the beginning of delivery, thus, injection timing is advanced because the event takes place earlier.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Could you say why an old fuel solenoid doesn't respond to the encoder advance. Is it just not able to keep up?

certainly, the closure time is out of spec so it takes too long to close the poppet valve and when it does close its already missed some of the cam ramp so part of your fuel delivery is lost giving you low power, slow timing.

This idea of Dual Breathers is beyond absurd.


But I do believe something good has come from it for my own ride. That's what make these threads interesting.


I have just completed reinstalling the downpipe with the nipple welded in place connected to a breather(READ: SINGLE, NOT CHROME) where the CDR used to be.


I have improved upon GM's design(I Say) in two ways. Reducing IAT's(TDG Says, I Agree), and drawing a vacuum in the crankcase(Good Thing, I Say) and venting into the atmosphere.


Screw reduced emissions. Here come the Tree-Huggin' Hippies now...

Billman,


Can you provide a little more info? Do you still have the CDR cannister in place? Have you thought of measuring crank-case pressure? Just curious. Please keep us up to date!

Billman federal air emissions testing near cities was going to get uber strict in 2005 but might get relaxed with the current administration, don't know for sure yet. I think they are still doing it here. Diesels have to pass an emissions test for the first time in 5 county area around Houston,Tx. something to consider, even if you live in the country like me this type of thing will eventually catch up to us. My take is it's regulation geared to promote new vehicle sales.


I have trouble hugging trees, the chainsaw gets in the way.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Dunno, Billman.......them thar downpipes got pressure inside 'em - ain't none in the cumpresser inlet.

RJ


CDR is gone. For now. Standard breather in place. 5/8 heater hose to a check valve screwed onto nipple. Haven't run it yet. Waiting to finish WMI. I will run a vacuum gauge inline.


QM


I live in the NYMA area. Diesel emissions around here is a smoke test only for vehicles above 10,000 GVW. Mine is safety only.


Love a warm Chainsaw...


JD


We'll see about pressure in the down pipe. Checkvalve is in place about 3 inches forward of 'Cat Connection'. Just in case. If it don't work, back to stock.


Took my rubber inlet off the other day, After the K&N thread. Saw grit near CDR inlet to turbo. That, coupled with dual breather thread, made me install nipple in downpipe.


Killed 2 Birds....So I think.

Coulda eliminated that grit (unfiltered Baro leakage from poor seal between the steel tube nipple and the duct) with a simple hose clamp, as I did when building my rig.


Got oem one on the flex hose to nipple, one on the duct to nipple - no unfiltered Baro entry there, now.


As I've stated, CDR vapors contribute to thermal function unless the engine is severely deteriorated.


Diesel fuel is a light oil - crankcase oil vapor must be fairly light or it would not 'waft' into the Baro environment.


I say, 'waft' it into the combustion chamber - every little bit helpsEdited by: gmctd

Wouldn't a "y" angle help pull that vapor, create a vacuum across the end of the nipple.

This is a good example of what I welded in place:


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR%2D97810&view=257#largerima ge


Of course, I made my own...

This idea of Dual Breathers is beyond absurd.


But I do believe something good has come from it for my own ride. That's what make these threads interesting.


I have just completed reinstalling the downpipe with the nipple welded in place connected to a breather(READ: SINGLE, NOT CHROME) where the CDR used to be.


I have improved upon GM's design(I Say) in two ways. Reducing IAT's(TDG Says, I Agree), and drawing a vacuum in the crankcase(Good Thing, I Say) and venting into the atmosphere.


Screw reduced emissions. Here come the Tree-Huggin' Hippies now...








So is this set up like a drag race evac system with AIR check valve, and pipe nipple welded in at an angle?





Should work well, in fact, you could retain the CDR valve itself to regulate vacuum.





Vacuum on the crankcase is a good thing...

Should work well, in fact, you could retain the CDR valve itself to regulate vacuum.





Vacuum on the crankcase is a good thing...





This is why I asked about the CDR. I would think that you might want it back to regulate. If too much vacuum is drawn, you can lift lip seals and draw in dirt. Other than that, vacuum on the crank case, as previously stated, is good.

Billman, show a picture of how you put that angled nipple in you exhaust. At a 90 to the pipe?

Kennedy


EXACTLY. I'm a Drag-Racer. Thought about keeping CDR. Breather was easier to hook up with 5/8 heater hose.


How would CDR regulate vacuum?


'Vacuum on the crankcase is a good thing.' Hmmm, where did I hear that...





RJ


With this particular set-up on the Drag-Race motors, we were Lucky if we pulled 1". At this point I don't believe too much vacuum will be a problem. We'll see what a Turbo Diesel does. We pull 15" on the DR motors with no problems, but I understand this is for an 8 second shot, compared to extended hill pulling.





QM


At a 45* angle towards the rear with the opening facing the front.

and then when it's welded in you have a threaded fitting showing, ok. and I guess that cut is a venturi, takes the pressure off the opening.Edited by: quantum mechanic

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QM


A quick search turned this up. Pay no attention to the direction they are facing. The caption said it was for testing purposes.


You get the idea.
<CENTER>[url="http://www.hotrod.com/howto/45820/#"]http://hotrod.com/howto/p109881_image_large.jpg (http://www.hotrod.com/howto/45820/#)</CENTER>

get a gauge on there yet billman? I'm gonna put a gauge on my crankcase to, right on the oil filler inlet, but I assure you, there's no pressure there, how much difference could 1" be from BARO?

If you put your fitting in ahead of cat and muffler, seems like you would be running the risk of blowing pressure back into the crankcase, moreso than drawing it out. If you could move this fitting back beyond all the pressure drop in the exhaust system, then it seems like you would be gaining more.


An exhaust guy told me one time that when they test cats to see if they are plugged, they look for more than 2 psi pressure drop across them. 2 psi potientially backing up into your crankcase sounds like going backwards moreso than forward. Interested in what you've got number wise though. I always love experimentation!

Those are dumping into Baro, Billman, not into a muffler\tailpipe system - there is a pressure head in such a system.


Just a caution to put a gage on it, as you run it up in steps.

Check valve and gauge will be in place...