Over visiting our friendly neighbors at the TDR this evening and came across some interesting info. The 3rd. gen. trucks are starting to puke injectors rather frequently. I had to call my buddy who is a tech at a dealership and he says he has replaced injectors in quite a few of the dodge 3rd gen cummins trucks..2 this week as a matter of fact. Knowing the past with duramax injectors I am starting to wonder if the high pressure fuel system or the smog requirements are responsible for these injector failures on both brands. Just food for thought!

I been wondering about this. If the fuel systems on the Max and Cummins are the same, why aren't Dodges having problems? Sounds like they might be.

My money is on the pressure.


Hopefully not that the pressure is the root cause, but rather that the deficiencies of our North American diesel, i.e. poor lubricity & contaminants, are expressed through failures in the most delicate components of the high pressure system--the injectors.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


Those of us who are using additional fuel filtration and additives with the lubricant benefit are hopeful that such failures can be mitigated.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Does anyone know which cummins first came out with the "similiar to Duramax" injectors? is it the latest 600, or the slightly older 555?

The 555 uses High Pressure Common Rail injection with Bosch injectors very similar to the D-max, but on a Dodge changing the injectors is not much more difficult than doing sparkplugs on a straight 6 gasser, while even on the LLY D-max injectors are, um, tedious to replace.

I can see the benefit of ease of injector replacement but if the extra diesel trashes the motor or the turbo it doesn’t really matter how easy they are to change. Hopefully that's just a small percentage.

Let’s see what the next 6 months bring the Dodge boys when those 555’s start getting some time on them. I have already read of at least one 600 trashed by bad injectors.

IMO the problem is Bosch, the supplier. While Bosch is the leader (or one of the leaders) in high pressure common rail injector technology, F*rd, D*dge and GM have all had problems with Bosch injectors.


I think its time for Bosch to "get it right" or the light truck manufacturers need to find a supplier who has a more reliable product.

It isn't Bosch with the problem, it's the poor quality of the diesel fuel in this Country. GM ran the current LLY Dmax on fuel imported from Sweden, and it passed the next generation EPA regs due out in 2006 or 2007?, for diesels. Sweden is supposed to have the best diesel fuel in the world.


For what it's worth, while the Dmax uses a pilot injection system of two pulses, the new Cummins uses a triple pulse. The old injection systems don't have a chance of meeting the next set of EPA regs...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

It makes no sense to me at all that they would test these new motors on diesel fuel from Sweden. Yeah thats great that its clean burning and all but.... news flash automotive engineer knuckle heads.....its a long way to the nearest swedish fuel stop! The automotive industry and the world for that matter never ceases to amaze me!

The Duramax has a 2 year lead on the Cummins when it comes to the HPCR system. So it would stand to reason for the Cummins to just be getting to a point that they have a few injector problems.


Only time and mileage will tell.

Regarding testing the dmax with fuel from Europe, it's true! Earlier this year I bumped into my ex-boss who works for Bosch and we got into a discussion on the injectors. She is well aware of the problems and her comment was that they did durability testing with european fuel which turned out to be quite a bit cleaner then the stuff available in the states....she called our stuff "dirty fuel". She also said they were seeing quite a few failures in the 75-80K mile range on the LB7. LLY didn't come up as the engine was very new at that time....

Bottom line here....we don't have european fuel....terrible planning on their part.

"It isn't Bosch with the problem, it's the poor quality of the diesel fuel in this Country."


According to articles in 4 different magazines, Toyota will enter the 3/4 ton diesel truck market by end of 2007. One of the articles mentions a new Toyota truck assembly plant in Texas. It will be interesting to see which supplier Toyota uses for fuel system components and whose fuel is used for long-term testing.

Does anybody know if Bosch makes fuel system components for other diesel manufacturers? Isuzu, Mercedez Benz, etc.


Has Bosch simply taken components from other product lines that are running a better quality fuel and adapted them to the Duramax? If so, that is where the mistake is.

I was told by a <st1:City><st1:place>Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> rep that <st1:City><st1:place>Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> will be using a Cummings engine and a allision tranny for the 2007 ¾ ton truck sound like one great combo. I bet the price will be high.

why would ford sell toyota the cummins engine? and arnt the dodge is the search of a new engine since their cummin contract is coming to an end? and will ford use the new cummins? its a big soap opra with 40k trucks

The Cummins in the Toyota makes more sense than the Allison. Ford doesn't own Cummins, but the General does own 100% of Allison. I can't see the General wanting to up their "segment exclusive."


http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/dodgeram/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000C518F-094B-1E31-850880C4A8F00000

ok


i was wrong. i thought ford owned like ?% of it and was gona put them in their f-serries.


leave it to a ford guy to mislead info.

I coulda swore at one time Cummins was owned by the parent company of CNH (Case New Holland), but I can't find anything to support that.

Face it all make are all inter related. toyota, dodge, GM, Ford, Honda, ect. Take the isuze redo hav the same make up of the honda passport the gm emission sensors. its all junk
When it come to a diesel and real diesel I will take Cat, Cummins or Detroit....all one the top of the game all junk,junk and all inprove whats good.The big 3 in the heavy diesel share knowlege and ups and downs. the Automotive big 3 play the game to play us...diesel craze has hit anf they know it, will take the money and run. I see a day toyota even Honda will step up with a diesel....and the big 3 better watch out.....