Up in the Hill Country around here for the weekend and the truck ran great as usual. 90k and have run 3 versions of Juice since 6k with no major problems. Now running latest Hot w Attitude for the last 4 months with NO problems.


Since the Attitude I always go to level 0, just to sensitive and too much power for rock crawling in 4wd. In and out of 2wd -4wd high 8 or 10 times throughout the weekend and never got over around 15 mph. Got ready to leave and when I hit the county road at around 30mph, a horrible metal clashing noise began and the more throttle I applied the truck fell back like I was breaking. I thought the Allison was about to fall out. Stopped and the noise went away and everything was fine for the 120 mile trip home at 75.


Once back in town and at a light this terrible noise started again when I began to move. The more I pushed the pedal the slower the truck would go with the noise increasing. I rolled down the window and discovered it to sound like injectors........Juice in level 4, this time the SES light comes on. All injectors replaced 4 months ago.


Turned the truck off and restarted, all being fine now. Pulled the Juice out when I got home and after a few hrs. the SES light is now off and the truck runs fine. Seems to feel pretty gutless but hard to tell after running the Juice.


Any Ideas?





Thanks.......Billy

Sounds like a Injector pump issue. If it gets out of time (injects too soon) it can make a awful lot of noisy. Get it checked out soon. A problem like this can destroy a engine if pump is injecting too soon.

I've had another case where it sounds like you gave it a big shot of ether with a LOUD snap. At first it did it while idling, but then it started doing it while towing. I think I'd pull the Juice and see if it goes away.

Snoflake would you mind not posting totaly wrong BShttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif This is a common rail injection system! The pump canot "inject at the wrong time". Its absoulutly fecking impossible!


Sorry Billyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif Anywho.....any smoke out the tail pipe? I aint to hip on what you are describing, hopefully eric or the other knowledgable guys will chime in. May be a juice prob too? I dunohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


You mean it started sounding more diesel like? or like the pilot injection was off? It could be an injection timing issue but all the pump does is try to supply a constant volume of the desired amount of fuel to the injectors, they open when they are told to to controll timing and durration.

Sounds like rapid falling of large pick axes on the engine block if you ask me. Sometimes one rap, and sometimes two or three...

That sounds expensivehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pinch.gif

Makes me cringe when I hear it...





I think it loses timing, or injects at the wrong time anyhow. It was cured by removing the suspect Juice module.

Snoflake would you mind not posting totaly wrong BShttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif This is a common rail injection system! The pump canot "inject at the wrong time". Its absoulutly fecking impossible!


Sorry Billyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif Anywho.....any smoke out the tail pipe? I aint to hip on what you are describing, hopefully eric or the other knowledgable guys will chime in. May be a juice prob too? I dunohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


You mean it started sounding more diesel like? or like the pilot injection was off? It could be an injection timing issue but all the pump does is try to supply a constant volume of the desired amount of fuel to the injectors, they open when they are told to to controll timing and durration.

Grow up dude, such a child you are. It CAN get out of time and inject wrong amount as well duh.

yes it can, but the pump aint going to make it inject early. A pump putting out too little fuel can cause the wrong amount to be injected but it will be too little and IMO it wont cause this. What will happen if the pump cranks up the pressure though? I'm currious......


Or would you mind telling me why I am wrong and how the pump can cause altered timing???? Pretty easy to make me look like a jack ass here....all you gota do is show me how I'm wrong instead of saying "yes it can"


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

The pump only builds pressure for the rails. The injector, times, injects, and atomizes the fuel.

Thanks all!


Yeah John you're right, only about 30 or 40 pick axes falling on a sheet of quarter inch plate. It was really loud and like I said, the more throttle I gave the louder it got with less power.


I was under the impression the Juice/Attidude did nothing if on Level 0. It was set on 0 the first time, and after the trip back home it was set on 4 when it happened again.


Even though the SES light is now off, I assume there must be a code set anyway. Gonna stop in at the dealer today.


Billy

Level 0 still has the advanced timing.

yes it can, but the pump aint going to make it inject early. A pump putting out too little fuel can cause the wrong amount to be injected but it will be too little and IMO it wont cause this. What will happen if the pump cranks up the pressure though? I'm currious......


Or would you mind telling me why I am wrong and how the pump can cause altered timing???? Pretty easy to make me look like a jack ass here....all you gota do is show me how I'm wrong instead of saying "yes it can"


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

The pump and the injectors work together. If pump pressure is too high (or it is erratic) it will cause to much fuel to soon in cycle and in effect throwing timing off.Edited by: snoman

Did you hear comon rail???


How? The injector only opens when its told to.


So I guess if someone cranks up the rail pressure via a maximizer or another programer its going to do the same thing?

My "informal" testing indicates that even level 0 adds timing. When I stack, the level 0 rattles pretty good in cold air. But even then, it should sound like an old Cummins or Cat, but NOT like the engine is going to grenade.


If you have a friend with Autotap (or other scanner) it will give you the codes.

Billy,

Do a quick tour under the truck and make sure a rock didn't get a sensor or wire. Wiggling the wires to get the juice off could have made up the connection again, but I know I would check anyway. If you go over rock like I have, some of the hard bangs could shake a connection loose.

Really sounds like the timing is off. Question is if it is the juice or a sensor. Outside chance it is the ECM.

Thanks again to all!





Trip to the dealer showed Camshaft Position Sensor threw two codes.


1st at 27mph, 21% throttle, 4.5lbs. boost................2nd was 25mph, 42% throttle, and 13lbs. boost. Injectors and everything else showed normal. Dealer says Daaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Not a clue.


Does the Juice/Attitude talk to the cam sensor and could it have caused this code to set? Fingers may be right on a connector, anyone know where the sensor is?


Thanks..........Billy

Motovet has a similar situation in that his sets the code. I'd lean towards the Juice...

Back when I was having Juice in the rain issues, camshaft sensor codes were found.


Good description of the noise, by the way!

Snow blower


Common rail fuel injection. All the pump does is supply fuel at pressure to the rails. It has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with timing. Timing advance and retard are controlled by when the injectors open and close and for how long. The only thing that lower or higher pressure would do is cause the mix to be lean or rich.


Jess

Thanks again to all!





<font size="3">Trip to the dealer showed Camshaft Position Sensor threw two codes</font>.


1st at 27mph, 21% throttle, 4.5lbs. boost................2nd was 25mph, 42% throttle, and 13lbs. boost. Injectors and everything else showed normal. Dealer says Daaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Not a clue.


Does the Juice/Attitude talk to the cam sensor and could it have caused this code to set? Fingers may be right on a connector, anyone know where the sensor is?


Thanks..........Billy




I don't know if the Juice plays with the signal from the cam or not. I suspect it does.

Billy,





I think that one should be sent in for warranty ASAP. From my experience, it only gets worse. The one that I had do it started when backed out in the morning, at idle. Never did it except under load after that, but it got progressively worse...

Thanks John,


Been trying to get in touch with Edge since yesterday.


On Edit: Just spoke to Edge. They suggested running it for awhile to make sure it wasn't just a momentary glitch and claim no damage to the engine would occur unless under severe heavy load. Send it back if the situation repeats.


BillyEdited by: bhowell

Uh Oh, mine just did it this morning. What's going on here? Pulled out of the driveway and hit the gas. Had that horrible clatter, like the cylinders were firing at the wrong time. Had zero power of course and the Engine light came on. I was running Juice in Level 4. After pulling over I switched the Juice to level 0 and shut off the truck. I restarted and it has worked fine , put the juice up to 4 again and it has worked fine all day.


Jeff

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?





This is not the kind of trend we hope to see, then again, 3 or 4 that we know of now out of how many probably isn't too bad.

After hearing it in person, I wouldn't run it...