I found these lights at Cabela's and ordered a pair. Great rear lighting while backing and the quality is good for the price. The installation is simple and all necessary parts are provided in the kit. Take a look - they may just what you're looking for!


http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/horizontal-item.jhtml?id=0004104520842a&navAction=jump&navCou nt=4&indexId=cat20133&podId=0004104&catalogCode=IE &parentId=cat20133&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=Mai nCatcat21412&hasJS=true


http://terrybrowne.us/images/Temp/i520842hz03.jpgEdited by: tbrowne

On y our recommendation, I ordered a set of these lights. I set them a closer together (about 6-8" from center of vehicle) and angled them slightly out maybe 5 degrees. Gives great light especially with the tinted windows. Now I can see where I'm going at night. I plan on putting in a second relay so I can turn them on from inside the vehicle if I'm hooking up a trailer or just need some light. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I mounted a set of Pilot lights that are 6" long and only 7/8" high.


I also did not want a bunch of extra switches to worry about so I hooked them up to my rear cargo light with an extra fuse inline. Works great.

I also did not want a bunch of extra switches to worry about so I hooked them up to my rear cargo light with an extra fuse inline. Works great.


Where did you make the splice at? Under the dash?

Actually is took me a long time to figure out that they use a negative connection for the cargo lights. I spliced in along the a piller.

I forgot to mention if you do go this route you will need to isolate the metal light bracket from any metal on the truck. I used some garloc material and rubber gromets to keep from touching.

This would be excellent for trailer and backup vison.


I may have to add to the Christmas List... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


akdiesel, thanks for the tip on the cargo switch and insulation. Sheet teflon gasket material would be a good choice too...

Where exactly did you splice at? Which wire was it? I wanna do this for the cargo light too. Any pictures?


Ben

I did not take any pictures of the install and I have the dual a-piller in place with the plastic push button rivets with no spares incase I screw one up.


I can't remember which color wires they were, but if you take the rear cargo light off and look at the wires on there and trace them back at the a-piller you should be able to find them easy enough. You could also use a test light to locate them.


Sorry I could not help you out any more than this.


I have had in place for about 1 year now and I have not had any issues with the wattage on the wires. I don't leave them on long enough to cause that much heat either. I would not go any higher than the 55 watt lights. That is what I have on mine.


I was trying to show a picture of the lights mounted on the rear bumper, but I am not able to upload a picture.

I also forgot to mention that I chose the cargo light switch also because it informs you that your rear lights are on if you happen to forget.

Hi,
Here are pics of a backup light installation I did on my Silverado 3500. The highlights are:
1). Come on either in Reverse or via switch in cab.
2). Cheap tractor flood lights from Princess Auto.
3). Cole-Hersee switch mounted in bank under dash with blanks to mount 3 more switches.
4). Power from SEO connector in MBEC block.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/1ZC_Rev_1.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3B8_Rev_2.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/F7B_Rev_3.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/65Z_Rev_4.jpg

Would be happy to answer questions. Good luck.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/AC6_DSC00008.JPG


Well I finally figured out the picture game.


I picked these lights because they give me the clearance I wanted for snow drifts. I did not want anything to hang to low.


They may not be as luminescent as Diesel Dad's, but they give me what I want.


I wanted to incorperate them into the bumper, but I have a hard time cutting into a perfectly good bumper.

Are you able to adjust the angles etc. once they are attached or is it once they are on they do not adjust?

They adjust up and down just like on any other flat surface.


There is a little adjustment side to side by piveting it on the mounting holes, but you will want to get the correct angle you want for the side to side before you drill holes.


If you go with the ones that Deisel Dad has you can angle them any direction due to it only having one mounting hole.

You can pick pretty much any type of light but they need to be flood lights and you need to mount them close to the corners of the bumper. Otherwise, they light up an area you can't see anyway.


All of the effort is in the wiring. Lights are cheap. You can easily replace them later.


My backup lights are very bright and can controlled by switch as well to deal with tailgating ricers http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

Thanks akdiesel; I think I am going to go this route this time with the slimmer profile; dieseldad, I have gone your route a few times with some Hella driving lights before and have lost them due to breakage through either a big stone or debris being thrown up at them and breaking them off. Gets expensive just to be able to see backwards. The great thing about the Hella's was if someone is tailgating you and you hit them with those 55 watt or 100 watt bulbs they WILL back off!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

FWIW, I used some KC HiLites #1763 that are triggered
by a relay from the reverse lightes as well as the
cargo lamp switch. It works well for my needs. Here's my small
write up (http://207.53.239.181/~terry/truck/Backup-lights/) on it.

Hope this helps,

T.

KC makes a wide angle light but it is about the same size as the one on Diesel Dads truck.


I thought about putting it on the reverse light wireing, but I wanted to have the ability to manually operate the lights and I don't see how it is possible to have both the reverse trigger and a seperate toggle to turn them on when you want them on with out going into reverse.


I am sure you could put a toggle in line with the wire from the rear lights to turn them on, but then it would also turn on your reverse lights and maybe trigger your reverse indicator. Unless they make some sort of one way electronic piece that would only allow current in one direction.

KC makes a wide angle light but it is about the same size as the one on Diesel Dads truck.
I thought about putting it on the reverse light wireing, but I wanted to have the ability to manually operate the lights and I don't see how it is possible to have both the reverse trigger and a seperate toggle to turn them on when you want them on with out going into reverse.
I am sure you could put a toggle in line with the wire from the rear lights to turn them on, but then it would also turn on your reverse lights and maybe trigger your reverse indicator. Unless they make some sort of one way electronic piece that would only allow current in one direction.

I have the lights triggered by the cargo light switch as
well as the reverse lamps.

It does NOT turn on the reverse lights. See the
wiring diagram I listed in the link above..... These
are mutually exclusive - when in reverse, the cargo
light does NOT come on. When the cargo lights are on,
the OEM reverse lights are NOT on either....

To me, the KC HiLites look smaller than those used by
DieselDad...

good luck,

T.

akdiesel,


I know you mentioned they were Pilot, where did you get them, and about how much were they? I really like the low profile look, almost unnoticeable, very nice. I don't really need them, but it would be nice every once in a while to have a little more light back there.


Thanks,
Dennis

You can in fact wire up a switch and have them automatic. I use a three position switch:
<UL>
<LI>up (on)</LI>
<LI>middle (off)</LI>
<LI>down (automatically come on with backup lights)</LI>[/list]


When its in the on position ONLY the KC lights come on. The factory backup lights do not come on. Here is a link to a wiring diagram that I used for the old truck. Exact same diagram I will use on this truck.


http://www.ansley.net/images/truck/backup/wiring_diagram_(Small).jpg

They are the PL-1057. They are driving lights but you can also get them in the clear or blue.http://www.accessconnect.com/pilot2.htm.


Since they are a low profile light they are not the brightest light, but they do a fine job of putting some extra light back there.


Hey guys thanks for the infor on the wireing.

akdiesel,


Thanks for the info. This might be a project for the near future.


TEXMudder,


Very nice wiring diagram, what did you use to create it?


Dennis

An electrical engineer. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif My buddy helped me with the wiring and made that using some of his tools at work. Edited by: TEXMudder

LOL,


Tell him I like it. Any chance you could find out what he's using, although if it is a work program, it's probably outside my budget.


Thanks,
Dennis

Trucks that came with the snowplow ready package have a switch with pilot light located to the right side of the dash next to the airbag disable which is marked AUX. This is to provide power for a roof mounted light. The leads are tucked above the headliner.


The dealer had no idea where to find the leads. I stumbled across the thread on plowsite.com

has anyone tried replacing the original backup lite with a stronger bulb??my brother did and he is a happy camperhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

damn , this looks like a mod I could probably do!

terry - where are the fuse/relay blocks you are talking about located? i printed out your article and brought home to install my lights (got a really nice heavy duty 55w low profile set at pep boys for around $30) but couldnt find the stuff in your diagrams. neither the fuse block under the hood or on the drivers side of the dash matched. i looked all over and couldnt find anything. i know i need to get a repair manual, but i just havent done it yet. a little help please? i got the lights mounted and plan on wiring just like you did, so they come on with either the cargo switch or backup lights.


one more question maybe someone can help out on - if i have 2 power inputs, backup lights and cargo light, do i wire these to the same input on the relay or use 2 relays? the auto parts guy told me to connect them to one plug on the relay but wouldnt this cause power to go back up the line to whatever switch is not activated (when i turn the cargo light switch on, wouldnt this put power to wherever i connected to the backup lights?). thanks for the help guys!

Just put a diode on the ends of the leads running to a single relay,
then you won't have juice running up the wrong lead. They're
cheap. You can get them at any electronics store. An IN4001
will do just fine (or any of the IN400(X) series will. . . just that
the IN4001 is probably the cheapest.



Dennis

terry - where are the fuse/relay blocks you are talking about located? i printed out your article and brought home to install my lights (got a really nice heavy duty 55w low profile set at pep boys for around $30) but couldnt find the stuff in your diagrams. neither the fuse block under the hood or on the drivers side of the dash matched. i looked all over and couldnt find anything. i know i need to get a repair manual, but i just havent done it yet. a little help please? i got the lights mounted and plan on wiring just like you did, so they come on with either the cargo switch or backup lights.
The diagrams are for '03 - early '04 LB7 apps, & are probably correct for even the later '04s since this is
for the body wiring & not engine wiring....

The Instrument Panel fuse block is under the dash sort
of above & to the left of the brake pedal.

one more question maybe someone can help out on - if i have 2 power inputs, backup lights and cargo light, do i wire these to the same input on the relay or use 2 relays? the auto parts guy told me to connect them to one plug on the relay but wouldnt this cause power to go back up the line to whatever switch is not activated (when i turn the cargo light switch on, wouldnt this put power to wherever i connected to the backup lights?). thanks for the help guys!

Again, if you wire it up the same as I did, you don't need diodes - unless you just can't stand it & feel the need to soldier some in.... ;) The OEM reverse lights are controlled by the BCM, so no they will not come on when
you flip on the cargo switch to power the cargo lights/add-on lights. Here's a pic if you still
don't belive me.... ;)
http://207.53.239.181/~terry/truck/Backup-lights/IMG_0007.JP (http://207.53.239.181/~terry/truck/Backup-lights/IMG_0007.JPG) G

good luck,

T.

I still think it's a good idea to throw in a couple diodes. Maybe not required, but it's always a good idea to electrically isolate things if possible. What's a couple cents worth of diodes versus a $400.00 BCM? Very inexpensive insurance if you ask me.


Dennis

ok, i guess i didnt look far enough under the dash. i didnt get on my back and look up there, i just bent over and looked and didnt see anything. i figured everything would be in the fuse panel accessible from the drivers side with the door open.


i am contemplating just wiring them to the cargo switch since i dont know that i want them coming on EVERY time i shift into reverse. for one, it would be annoying to people in parking lots (not that i care too much) but it was also shorten the life of the bulbs since they would be coming on and off more often. i mainly just want them for putting the boat in and taking it out in the dark for duck hunting and fishing. i plan on mounting some LED courtesy lights under the rail of the bed after i get it sprayed next week. this way, by flipping the courtesy switch, the whole back of the truck and boat will be lit up so i can get my gear situated without holding a flashlight in my teeth. thanks for all the help guys!

alright, now im thoroughly confused. WTF kind of system do they have the cargo light wired on? its a normally closed circuit so if i wire the relay to the C3-D pin on your diagram, it is hot when the switch is off and dead when the switch is on. this would give me the opposite result that i want (backups on when cargo is off). how did you deal with that? i went to radio shack and the lady (who was suprisingly knowledgable and understood what i was saying) said i needed a normally closed relay, which they didnt have of course.


terry, can you help me out here and tell me what you did? i even pulled the cargo lamp switch out and the blue/white output to it is backwards. the cargo lamps must have something inline to reverse this or else the lights would be on when the switch is off and vise versa. WTF are GM engineers thinking when they design this sh*t?? all i am trying to do is hook up simple lights and it turns into this headache. and all because i dont want to drill a hole and mount a tacky looking switch...

Doesn't the BCM just ground the circuit?



Dennis

akdiesel - you said they use "a negative connection for the cargo lights". what does this mean? is the ground for the lights connected to positive and the true ground switched? why the hell would they do this? did you wire your lights the same? if so, how? you mentioned isolating the lights with a piece of rubber or something, did you not bolt them to the truck? i dont know how you could keep them firmly in place without bolting them. thanks for any more info as i am obviously confused Edited by: haneym

That's exactly what it means. . . (The BCM grounds the circuit).



If you don't isolate them, they will ground to the metal on the truck and turn on. . .



Dennis

terry? any input as to how you did it? i dont know how i could mount them solidly without bolting them to the bumper? do yall just have them on with 3m tape or zipties or what?? i have pretty much resorted to the idea of drilling a hole for a switch as much as i dont want to do it. i stopped at the dealer and was gonna buy the factory cargo lamp/fog light switch panel so i could wire these using the fog light switch and it would at least look stock, but they wanted $40 just for the freaking switch.


i plan on wiring them up on friday (ordered the ranchos from sams offroad and they should be here tomorrow, so im gonna do it all on fri) so i need to decide before then. i would love to know how you did it terry!

terry? any input as to how you did it? i dont know how i could mount them solidly without bolting them to the bumper?

Mine are "bolted" to the underside of the bumper.
I did have to drill a hole large enough for the
stud in the KC HiLites to fit through - I don't
remember the size however....

do yall just have them on with 3m tape or zipties or what?? i have pretty much resorted to the idea of drilling a hole for a switch as much as i dont want to do it. i stopped at the dealer and was gonna buy the factory cargo lamp/fog light switch panel so i could wire these using the fog light switch and it would at least look stock, but they wanted $40 just for the freaking switch.
i plan on wiring them up on friday (ordered the ranchos from sams offroad and they should be here tomorrow, so im gonna do it all on fri) so i need to decide before then. i would love to know how you did it terry!

Maybe it's not clear on my small webpage write up,
but I used TWO relays.... I'm not an electronics
type by any means, but my advice would be to get a
DVOM and study the Helm manual's circuit pages shown
on my site, THEN it might become clearer how this is
done with two relays (one used for reverse, one for cargo)....

hope this helps,

T.

Maybe it's not clear on my small webpage write up,
but I used TWO relays.... I'm not an electronics
type by any means, but my advice would be to get a
DVOM and study the Helm manual's circuit pages shown
on my site, THEN it might become clearer how this is
done with two relays (one used for reverse, one for cargo)....


i was planning on using the two relays, but they shouldnt have an impact on what type of circuit is used. when you put a meter on the C3-D pin of that junction block, there is power when the cargo lamp switch is off and no power when the switch is on. if i connected a relay to this, wouldnt it cause the lights to be on when the cargo lamp is off and vise versa? i guess i will just have to wire some test connections to find out.


just to be clear, you simply wired the trigger input of the relay to the C3-D pin and the constant power input to the C3-M and it works?

WOOHOO! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif they work!


haha. finally got it right, heres a summary in case others want to do it. i went to discount auto and figured out that the fog light relay from a 97 camaro is a normally closed relay. its GP Sorensen relay #MR76. i connected the input of that relay, pin 30, to pin M of the C3 block in the figures on terrys website. i connected 85 and 86 to power and ground and you connected the lights to the middle pin, 87a. see below for the results...


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/haneym/2004-10-26_152837_rear_lights_small.JPG

Congrats!! Thanks again for the follow up, your findings and details. I'm going to use same type setup for lights under the bed rail cap because it's pretty dark under a fiberglass tonneau. :D Nice job.


Now to find that part "GP Sorensen relay #MR76" haha

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for wiring the reverse lights to the factory backup lights and to a 2 position (on/off) switch in the cab?


Is it as simple as wiring a switch to a relay and running it back to the lights and then wiring another relay at the rear of the vehicle connected to the reverse lights that ties into the same wires from the switch?

Is it as simple as wiring a switch to a relay and running it back to the lights and then wiring another relay at the rear of the vehicle connected to the reverse lights that ties into the same wires from the switch?





yes. if you look at one of the links in the previous pages, there is a wire diagram but if you do like you said, that would work. that what i was going to do until i found the relay that will work. i still may add the link from the reverse lights, havent decided.

haneym


Thanks. It would seem that you could place the relay from the factory reverse lights to the new ones at the rear of the truck and not really have to do much wiring.


Do you know offhand where the best place is to tie into the reverse lights in the rear?


What about in the cab? (in case I added a 3 position switch)





Your mod with the factory cargo switch will be the perfect mod if I ever add a headache rack with lights on it.

just realized a made a mistake when i described the wiring. i said to connect pin 85 and 86 to power and ground. the input to pin 85 actually acts as the "switch" to activate the relay, therefore pin 85 is connected to the output of the cargo lamp switch (i think B of C3). the way the relay works (shown on this page: http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp), pin 87 is active when the relay coil is hot and pin 87a is active when the coil is at rest.


pin 85 - output of cargo lamp switch


pin 86 - ground


pin 30 - constant power


pin 87a - output to lights


sorry for the confusion guys, someone just PMed me about it and i realized my mistake.

I don't mess around with all the wiring/relay stuff and use a remote control light module like this one.


http://www.autobarn.net/pac18001.html


Had one on my last truck and worked like a charm. Comes with 2 remote controls. Had one on my keychain and one velcro'd to my sunvisor. Just tapped into the 40 amp trailer wire to power the module and stuck it up out of the way up around spare tire area. Very nice being able to turn backup lights on/off with remote control while outside, camping, etc.

just realized a made a mistake when i described the wiring. i said to connect pin 85 and 86 to power and ground. the input to pin 85 actually acts as the "switch" to activate the relay, therefore pin 85 is connected to the output of the cargo lamp switch (i think B of C3). the way the relay works (shown on this page: http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp), pin 87 is active when the relay coil is hot and pin 87a is active when the coil is at rest.
pin 85 - output of cargo lamp switch
pin 86 - ground
pin 30 - constant power
pin 87a - output to lights

OK now I'm baffled. When I noticed that the cargo lamp switch was normally hot, I did the same thing - I wired the output to 87a. Here's what I've got:
85 - normally +12v output from cargo lamp switch (goes to 0v when switched on)
86 - ground
30 - constant +12v power from battery
87a - +12v output to lights
87 - not used

http://www.the12volt.com/images/relaytext3.gifhttp://www.the12volt.com/images/relaytext2.gif

Since 87a is normally on without power, and since the cargo lamp output is normally on (when the cargo lamp is OFF), this causes the coil to engage pin 87 when my cargo lamp switch is OFF. But once you turn ON the cargo lamp, the output of C3 goes to 0v, which causes the relay coil to fall back to resting position, and completes the circuit between pins 30 and 87a, thus turning on the lights.

At least in theory. What I found is that my lights do NOT come on, and I cannot hear my relay coil engage when I hit my cargo lamp switch. However, if I reverse my output to pin 87, I can hear the relay engage and the lights are normally on - till I turn cargo light on, then they go off. However, this is obviously the opposite of what I want (cargo lights and reverse lights should come on together).

I'm baffled. Sounds like I've miswired something but I checked and double-checked my wiring. I was tired when I did this, but not THAT tired. So I'm wondering if anyone that's more knowledgeable on electricity might see something that I've missed here?

BTW: the whole reason for using a relay and not just tapping off the factory reverse lights is to manage current load. Since I'm running 55w lamps in the back, I don't want to tap off the stock reverse lights and end up clipping a fuse. The relay allows me to run 12 guage direct to my new lights.

not sure why your having that problem, sounds like youve got it wired correctly. my only comment is that if you only want to avoid overloading the reverse light wiring, just wired the relay input from the reverse lights instead of the cargo lamp and wire it like a normal relay (pin 87 output). this way, you will only pull minimal amperage off the reverse lights to trigger the relay. i wired mine like i did b/c i wanted to control the lights independently of the reverse lights.

yeah - that's my goal. I want to be able to have the lights come on when I throw it in reverse, and when I flip on the cargo lights - like Terry's truck (http://207.53.239.181/~terry/truck/Backup-lights/) - but what's missing from his description is specifics of what he wired to what pins on the relay.

plug #3 pin "d" (Ithink) and pin"m" in the BCM under the dash will power the relay post #85 & 86 post 30 is from 12volts and post 87 go's to the lights thats how I did mine two days ago. use another relay to switch the trailer light green wire

yeah - that's my goal. I want to be able to have the lights come on when I throw it in reverse, and when I flip on the cargo lights - like Terry's truck (http://207.53.239.181/~terry/truck/Backup-lights/ (http://207.53.239.181/%7Eterry/truck/Backup-lights/)) - but what's missing from his description is specifics of what he wired to what pins on the relay. Sorry I didn't write up any details. I did this so long ago, I don't even
remember exactly how I wired it. :o

I -think- Gearhead may be correct, but I can't say for sure...
(sucks to get old)

good luck,

T.

Thanks Terry - I'll give it a whirl this weekend. Er...I guess my family would whoop my butt if I tried it THIS weekend. Maybe next. ;)