Ive been looking at 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x2 crewcab gassers AND diesels to replace my current 1994 f150 4x2 ext cab with the 5.8...

I pull a 7000lb TT and a 4500lb cargo trailer for work. All in all, probably 12 times a year w/ the camper (back and forth)and 8-10 times a year with the cargo trailer. (my '94 has been taking a beating)

Other than that, I drive ALOT for work while unhooked, so mileage is important. (hence my considering the diesels)

The more i've been reading though on some of the newer 1/2 tons, the more i'm starting to wonder if I even "NEED" a 3/4 ton...

I mean, what about a Chevy 1500HD with the 6.0 or 8.1 and a proper axle ratio?
Or how about the New Titan?
Hmmmmmm...

Your input is appreciated....
I appologize if some of my threads seem somewhat repetitious, but i'm just trying to gather as much solid info as a can before laying out the green....

Thanks again!
Edited by: DLayman

Take a look mat the Chev/GMC 1500HD with a 6.0 and heavy duty transmission. You might also look at the regular/light duty 2500's if they still make them.

There's a new 1/2 ton Silverado Hybrid coming out but I don't know when. It might be with the '05 that are about to be released. It's in the new 'Truck Trend' mag. Have to say I like the built in Generator feature!

I'll never own another gas engine truck. if that means I have to buy a 3/4ton then so be it. Once work gets better I just buy something big enough to need a turbo diesel. HAHAHAH... you can't beat a diesel engine. it's powerful, effecient, and relieable. you can't say that about many gassers at all. most gassers are good for about 150k-200k and there gonners. I heard reports of some dmax's still running with 300k-400k and the cummins has been out long enough to have more that that. my 0.02 cents.


-chad-

If mileage is a concern, the "hemi", the 8.1, and Ford V-10 are all "thirsty" engines.

Take a look mat the Chev/GMC 1500HD with a 6.0 and heavy duty transmission. You might also look at the regular/light duty 2500's if they still make them.

I agree that this might just be the ticket for this guy if he is considering a GM truck because as stated the 1500HD comes with mostly 3/4 ton drive components.

I had the 6.0 gasser and best mileage I could squeeze out of her was 12. I will never own another gasser as well.


Ben http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

I'll never own another gas engine truck. if that means I have to buy a 3/4ton then so be it. Once work gets better I just buy something big enough to need a turbo diesel. HAHAHAH... you can't beat a diesel engine. it's powerful, effecient, and relieable. you can't say that about many gassers at all. most gassers are good for about 150k-200k and there gonners. I heard reports of some dmax's still running with 300k-400k and the cummins has been out long enough to have more that that. my 0.02 cents.


-chad-

Some people like gasser's and some like diesels, just like some like Fords and some like Chevy's or Dodges. The all have there plus and minuses and the diesel is no silver bullet for pickups. I have seen gas trucks go past 300K when properly maintained and the 150 to 200K is pure BS these days. Get a diesel to 200k or so and rebuild the injector pump out of warranty (and you will durring the life of a high mileage diesel truck sometime for sure) and you will cry at the price of it. You could just about completely rebuild or replace a gasser for the price of just that injector pump. Lets not forget the current list price of Dmax injectors too $400 ea x 8 equals $3200. These are thing to consider if you want to shoot for 300K or more. Pay these bills and you will never break even on cost vs a gasser either. If you live in a very cold climate, diesels can be quite painfull to. (try and start one that has been out all night at minus 10 or minus 20 without being plugged in). I am not knocking them, they just are not for everybody. Also direct injection gasser will be mainstream in another 3 to 5 years and when that happens with the 20% improvement in MPG it offers and the 10% power increase with nothing else changed, the "line" between the gasser and the diesel will become even more blurred.

I had the 6.0 gasser and best mileage I could squeeze out of her was 12. I will never own another gasser as well.


Ben http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif





Ben,


That's not very good. I had a '93 350 and I got almost 15 on the highway, about 10-12 in town. Never towed with it, though. I also had a flowmaster exhaust, and intake and headers on it, too, which helped over one MPG.


Dennis

I'm getting quotes on both the Chevy 1500HD and the Nissan Titan. Can the 1500HD be had with the 8.1L or is that strictly 2500 and up territory?

Anyone know how much better gas mileage (if any at all) a heavy duty 1/2 ton would get over a 3/4?
(if given the same engines)

I think that 1/2 ton pickups are for people that dont have any use for a truck, but they still want to drive something that looks like a truck.

I think that 1/2 ton pickups are for people that dont have any use for a truck, but they still want to drive something that looks like a truck.

This is true but a 1500HD is really a 3/4 ton truck with a 1/2 ton label and has 9.5" 14 bolt rear axle and a 9.25 front IFS axle with a 4L80 tranny too.

The truck that was known as the 1500HD through the 2003MY now carries the label 2500. The only 2500 motor and transmission choice is the 6.0/4L80E.

My brother had a 2001 2500 ext cab short bed. He would average 12-13.5 in city and 15 or slightly better on highway. Loaded with trailer and car it would run low to mid 12’s towing highway.

The mileage difference between the 2500 8600 gvrw and the 2500HD 9200 gvrw, both equipped with the 6.0/4L80E would be negligible at best.

I'm getting quotes on both the Chevy 1500HD and the Nissan Titan. Can the 1500HD be had with the 8.1L or is that strictly 2500 and up territory?




I've not seen the specs on the '05's, nor did I pay a lot of attention to the gas engine options when ordering my truck. But IIRC, the 8.1 is only available in the 2500 HD's and up owing to the necessity of having the Allison behind it. That trans was not available in the 1500's or the regular 2500's. The Allison was only available in the HD's and up for '04 and prior year models...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The mileage difference between the 2500 8600 gvrw and the 2500HD 9200 gvrw, both equipped with the 6.0/4L80E would be negligible at best.</font>

It may actually be a bit better with the 1500HD/2500 std because it uses the 9.5 inch 14 bolt semi floater and semi floaters consume a bit less power to roll than units with large wheel bearing hubs and floating axles so I would not be too surprized if it squeaked another 1 or 2 mpg out on the highway without a load. The 9.5 is still pretty stout though and has a load capacity around 5600lbs and much stronger axles than a 10 bolt too. Edited by: snoman

Do you NEED a 3/4 ton......probably not.......do you WANT a 3/4 ton.........yes, or you wouldn't be here.





Stop and think about that the next time you can't sleep at night......I could live without the truck I own......quite frankly 90% of us could.


However, I work hard for the money I earn and nothing puts a smile on my face as often as the smell of diesel fumes, the g-forces and the whistle..........my 40 minute commute is the best part of my day!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

By the way SNOMAN, I live up north and starting a duramax that has sat out all night in minus 10 F really isn't all that hard. Turn the key........wait for the light and she rips to life. Kinda noisy for the first mile or two but it starts..........first time every time.


Get crap fuel and you might have a problem........but that's a year round issue.

This was the decision that I had to make. Save $10,000 and buy a gas rig that will not pull the hills like a diesel, doesn't not have the torque . The biggest thing is the wear and tear on the truck towing and MPG. My dad has bought a lot of toys and I gave him a call because I could not make the decision about gas or diesel. 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton. I thought well they make a 1/2 ton the dealer said will tow 10,000 lb. This would work for me but i call my dad and he told me buy diesel.


He said, Buy over what you think you may need for towing. He learn the hard way and bought a gas motor home and messed it up towing to much weight. When he sold it after 1 year, he lost $20,000 on it. He told me suck it up and buy one truck that will last you for a long time. It may seem like a lot of money but its cheaper than buying twice. If you buy a gas rig then trading that in and getting what you should of got in the first place you will pay more money than just buying the diesel.My dad was telling me even if the diesel was $20,000 over the gas he would still buy diesel.


I am very happy with my decision which is a 2004 GMC crew cab, long bed 6.6 turbo duramax slt. The only thing i noticed with the 1/2 ton is the ride is more comfortable than 3/4 ton. Big deal! Hope this helps

By the way SNOMAN, I live up north and starting a duramax that has sat out all night in minus 10 F really isn't all that hard. Turn the key........wait for the light and she rips to life. Kinda noisy for the first mile or two but it starts..........first time every time.


Get crap fuel and you might have a problem........but that's a year round issue.

Yeah but I will bet you had in plugged in too. Try it unplugged or on a overnight in the woods durring winter hunting trip when it gets below zero at night and there is nowhere to plug on in. I lived in Montana for a while in the mid 90's at about 7000 feet elevation and 40 below was not rare and minus 50 or better was possible. Nobody drove diesel pickups in that area during the winter, they all parked them for winter. all the pickups with snow plows (and there was a lot of them) were all gassers. A neighbor of mine was a OTR truck driver with his own tractor and he had heated fule tanks and fuel lines and everything on his rig but it would not reliable "lite" in cold weather even with a 230V block heater so he used to let his truck run for the few days he was home between runs to make sure he could get back on the road again. Extreme cold and diesels do not get along well at times. Last winter when it was about zero I went to a GM dealer to see how diesel starting had improved. We had to beg a Dmax to start that had sat all weekend in the cold without electric aux engine block heat, it took several minutes and several trys before it lite and stayed lite and was very rough for several minutes too. I was impress by a 2004 Cummins on same lot though (Chevy & Dodge dealer in one place) After about a 40 sec wait it lite first try and ran like a champ and smooth too. The 6.0 Power Stroke was about the same as the Dmax too. I still use gasser for my plow trucks because I know I can leave them anyway in any weather and never worry about them starting when needed. For my needs, a oil burner is just not for me yet.

This was the decision that I had to make. Save $10,000 and buy a gas rig that will not pull the hills like a diesel, doesn't not have the torque . The biggest thing is the wear and tear on the truck towing and MPG. My dad has bought a lot of toys and I gave him a call because I could not make the decision about gas or diesel. 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton. I thought well they make a 1/2 ton the dealer said will tow 10,000 lb. This would work for me but i call my dad and he told me buy diesel.


He said, Buy over what you think you may need for towing. He learn the hard way and bought a gas motor home and messed it up towing to much weight. When he sold it after 1 year, he lost $20,000 on it. He told me suck it up and buy one truck that will last you for a long time. It may seem like a lot of money but its cheaper than buying twice. If you buy a gas rig then trading that in and getting what you should of got in the first place you will pay more money than just buying the diesel.My dad was telling me even if the diesel was $20,000 over the gas he would still buy diesel.


I am very happy with my decision which is a 2004 GMC crew cab, long bed 6.6 turbo duramax slt. The only thing i noticed with the 1/2 ton is the ride is more comfortable than 3/4 ton. Big deal! Hope this helps





Dad's are pretty smart. Mine talked me into the Duramax, too. I couldn't be happier (well if my Juice was in, I'd be happier, still waiting). If you aren't happy with the ride, switch to Bilsteins, they apparantly are the poop, and I'll be putting them on mine within a month.


Dennis

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif My truck must be wierd or something. My water temp has read 15 degrees and it fired on the first time, puffed a wiff of white smoke, ideled like a dodge or ford(loud) for 15 seconds and then started purring like a kitten. I also lost my maxi fuse for my air intake heater(I think glow plug is on that circut too) and it started like normal in 30 degree weather not plugged with the water temp showing in the 30 degree range.


Even older power strokes once they fire(sometimes they can be a PITA) may have one heck of a lope for 15 seconds or so and may even die but once they fire and run for 30 seconds they idle like normal and if they fire and run for more than 15 seconds or so it isnt going to keep dying. Rough for the first couple minutes? What ever.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


So it got cold and you figured yould go to the local dealer to see how the new trucks started even though you already know diesel isnt something that interests you? If you did go it sounds like you were being nothing more than a troll.


My truck has always started without hesitation. No begging just turning the key. I havent hit way below zero but if it does hit that cold I aint skeered. I do always try to plug it in though becasue it is better on any(gas or diesel) to have it plugged in and I like instant heathttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


But beings he lives in florida I dont think he has to worry about these -50 degree temps.

I'm not proud of it but I have started my truck, not plugged in after sitting overnight at -30. It actually impressed the hell out of me how well it started/ran.


At 0 I wouldn't think twice about doing it. 0 is nice winter day up here. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


-15 is where I would start to get worried.


+15 degress is NOTHING to worry about. I will agree it is better to have it plugged in but +15 is FAR from cold.

To suggest that a 8.1 with 4.10's will not pull hills is just plain silly. Gassser have been powering heavy motor homes for over 30 years. Slap a mild supercharger on a 8.1 and you will not beable to boost that Dmax enough (and keep it from over temping) to keep up with a 8.1. Try 650 plus ft lbs of torque from about 1500 to 4500 rpm or more in one flat curve. It is amazing how they constantly compare a engine with 25 PSI of boost against one with no boost. How about a 8.1 with 1/3 that amount (8PSI and about 600 hp and 700 lbs or torque at the flick of your foot) against a further "boosted" Dmax.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif My truck must be wierd or something. My water temp has read 15 degrees and it fired on the first time, puffed a wiff of white smoke, ideled like a dodge or ford(loud) for 15 seconds and then started purring like a kitten. I also lost my maxi fuse for my air intake heater(I think glow plug is on that circut too) and it started like normal in 30 degree weather not plugged with the water temp showing in the 30 degree range.


Even older power strokes once they fire(sometimes they can be a PITA) may have one heck of a lope for 15 seconds or so and may even die but once they fire and run for 30 seconds they idle like normal and if they fire and run for more than 15 seconds or so it isnt going to keep dying. Rough for the first couple minutes? What ever.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


So it got cold and you figured yould go to the local dealer to see how the new trucks started even though you already know diesel isnt something that interests you? If you did go it sounds like you were being nothing more than a troll.


My truck has always started without hesitation. No begging just turning the key. I havent hit way below zero but if it does hit that cold I aint skeered. I do always try to plug it in though becasue it is better on any(gas or diesel) to have it plugged in and I like instant heathttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


But beings he lives in florida I dont think he has to worry about these -50 degree temps.


My son used to be bit by the diesel bug too until last winter when I took him to a few dealers and he saw how bad they can be and how I can jump in a 2000 K3500 gasser and with the quick twist of a key it is lite and running smoothly in but a few seconds. He also road in a few 8.1 as well and lost all interest in Dmax

Remind me again why you hang around a diesel board if you dont own one or even like em? Just curious???

To suggest that a 8.1 with 4.10's will not pull hills is just plain silly. Gassser have been powering heavy motor homes for over 30 years. Slap a mild supercharger on a 8.1 and you will not beable to boost that Dmax enough (and keep it from over temping) to keep up with a 8.1. Try 650 plus ft lbs of torque from about 1500 to 4500 rpm or more in one flat curve. It is amazing how they constantly compare a engine with 25 PSI of boost against one with no boost. How about a 8.1 with 1/3 that amount (8PSI and about 600 hp and 700 lbs or torque at the flick of your foot) against a further "boosted" Dmax.

Dude, lay off the crack! If ANY gas engines were better for pulling the companies building diesels wouldn't be getting so much money for them. When was the last time you saw a big rig or a locomotive or any other hevy duty machinery that ran on gas?? Get a life!

Crack huh? How did we ever survive without them? Comparing a OTR rig with 13 or more speeds to a pickup is just plan silly. BTW the most powerfull loco's ever made (drawnbar pull) were steamers not diesels and again a loco is not a pickup. People buy them for status and they are blinded by the light too. If you drive 50K a year, you might break even or come out ahead of a gasser in total purchase price and operating cost between 150 and 200k miles and only if the diesel does not break down because when you replace the injector pump that cost of it will set you so far back that you will never catch up in over all costs of ownership. I pulled massive loads 25 years ago with gassers that would make a Dmax groan even today. THey are good at what they do but they are not the last word on the matter as much as some would like them to be. I have no problem with diesel owners in general and can respect their right of choice, only the one that claim that you cannot get by without one are the ones I have trouble with.

People survived for thousand of years before chevy made the SBC. So what the hell is your point? Did you pull these massive loads uphill both ways in the snow barefoot? Comparing a LD pu to a triaxle dump with a bigblock or what ever you drove back 30 years ago "is just plan silly"


Is diesel the be all end all or the perfect form of IC for everybody? No, dont think anybody said it does. Many people dont need diesels. This guy may be one of em.


Beings you like to bring up rebuilding an injector pump in every topic.....what injector pumps have you seen fail and why do you believe a duramax owner will experience this same failure?


You like to talk about comparing apples to apples yet you constantly bring up stuff that isnt "apples to apples", unrelated info, and pure bs

Crack huh? How did we ever survive without them? Comparing a OTR rig with 13 or more speeds to a pickup is just plan silly. BTW the most powerfull loco's ever made (drawnbar pull) were steamers not diesels and again a loco is not a pickup. People buy them for status and they are blinded by the light too. If you drive 50K a year, you might break even or come out ahead of a gasser in total purchase price and operating cost between 150 and 200k miles and only if the diesel does not break down because when you replace the injector pump that cost of it will set you so far back that you will never catch up in over all costs of ownership. I pulled massive loads 25 years ago with gassers that would make a Dmax groan even today. THey are good at what they do but they are not the last word on the matter as much as some would like them to be. I have no problem with diesel owners in general and can respect their right of choice, only the one that claim that you cannot get by without one are the ones I have trouble with.

Nice conformation post, try not to burn your lips! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

BTW this is a diesel form not an anti-diesel forum...

Nice conformation post, try not to burn your lips! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif




Bwaaahaaahahttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Ha... And here I thought I asked about needing a 3/4 ton..
I guess the diesel VS gas debate will always find a way to come up...
To be honest, I cant figure out just what the heck to do...
I will go with a 3/4 ton for sure. I mean, after reading 403 turbo's post, how could I not... Ha

BUT, as for the gas VS diesel thing, its really all coming down to mileage for me... I agree with snowman that a strong gasser with a good axle ratio will pull hills fine. Especially the 8.1 or the V10's... But, its the feeling I get of the gas just draining right out of tank that makes me cringe when thinking about getting a gasser...

To suggest that a 8.1 with 4.10's will not pull hills is just plain silly. Gassser have been powering heavy motor homes for over 30 years. Slap a mild supercharger on a 8.1 and you will not beable to boost that Dmax enough .





ARE YOU OFF OF YOUR MEDICATION OR WHAThttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Back to the topic at hand...

Do I need a 3/4 ton diesel truck, nope. 90% of the time it's way more truck that I need. but the other 10% of the time it's great to have. I like to be the guy passing people while loaded or towing(I don't mean speeding), not the guy getting passed. Like it's been mentioned before, if you buy one of these trucks, you buy once for sure. I bought my truck with the intention of keeping it at least 10 years. I don't have kids or a boat or a camper, but If I get any of the above, I'm covered. I think you really know you want one, you just need to confirm/ justify it.

One last thing, did you know that GM trucks with d-maxes are some of the only vehicles built solely in the USA? That in itself is a great reason to buy one. For god's sake if you buy a half ton, don't buy an import Nissan, Toyota, Dodge. Get and American truck GMC, Ford, Chevy....I'll kindly thank you for that...it helps keep purpose in my job...

Ox

WELL i HAVE A GASSER IT.S GOT A VORTEX 454 3500 CREW CAB AND IT PULLS JUST FINE GET WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD IT LIKE THE SMALL BLOCK BIG BLOCK THING OR WOMAN LIKE BIG OR SMALL EVERYBODY GOT A CHOICE YOU KNOW WHAT i MEAN

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/dually_7.jpg GET WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD

All I can say it this is my first diesel and I have no regrets- I think I would have regrets if I didn’t buy it. Do I need all of this power? Probably not- I think with you it’s going to come down to personal choice. Living in FL- I don’t think cold weather will be an issue with you. I live up where there are plenty of mountains- which is another place a diesel is a strong leader at. The price of Fuel out by me is just below the cost of Premium gas- which really sucks- So I would guess the cost for me to recoup on fuel will never be justified L .

I was worried at first, and I am still a little gun shy with the diesel. But as time goes on, I keep feeling I made the right choice. The ride is not as nice as my ½ ton- but I think some new shocks will get it close enough.

If you can afford it get the diesel, there is nothing worse than trying to save money and then having to upgrade it latter. Also you will pay more for a diesel but a diesel trucks with 150K on the clock is worth way more than the initial difference from the same truck with a gas engine. As far as buying American, the last GMC I had was made in Canada, my current Dodge was made in Mexico. GM does not build any trucks in Canada any more? The Titan by the way is built in the US as is the Tundra.

Couple thigs to consider, yes you will pay more now.


You, should you every deciede to sell the diesel truck will get more out of it. Have you looked at what 6 year old gasers are going for these days.


Also, should you buy a new or low miles used, your warranty on the motor, is 100K. I put 10k-12k on my '04 3500 a year. You mention you do not drive that much each year, Your warranty on the truck will remain in effect for many years in the future.


I heard Ford is putting a small V6 diesel in there 1/2 ton soon.


Everybody has a good truck these days, Gas, Diesel, GMC, Dodge, Ford, Toyota, NIssan....GET THE TRUCK YOU LIKE AND most importanly WANT.

You have to live within your means for sure. Don't get what you can't afford is always the most important thing. There are lots of things to consider when purchasing a new truck and cost ranks right up there. I would love to have a diesel one of these days, but I am happy with my 01' 6.0L as it has treated me well for 72,000 miles. There are lots of choices when it comes to truck these days so do your homework and pick the one that fits you best. Test drives are wonderful things...


Good luck with making your decision...