I'm am seriously looking into getting a diesel truck, mostly gonna be using it for hauling......not much heavy towing. I am still very open to either a gas V8 or the diesel option. Of course the usual factors as far as pros for the diesel include, power, longevity, slightly cheaper fuel costs, but a major factor is mpg. I've talked to several buddies who are diesel owners....they report back with 17mpg for an 03 cummins and roughly 16-17 for an 04 duramax. Of the big three diesels, cummins, duramax and powerstroke, which gives the best mpg.....and does yr model matter? Also, what mods would help me with increasing mpg?? Overall, what would be the best mpg I could come to consistantly expect?

Lots see 20+ with the duramax.

around town I see 15-16, 70mph open road empty I see 19-20. Haven't had a load worth talking about behind it yet.

Jim

Are you looking to save money?


Will you be buying new or used?


How much fuel do you burn a year or how many miles under a load?





Burner

Since this is sorta for business, I'll be looking to save money and go with a used truck. That's where it gets tough with this decision...used gas trucks could probably be done with easily $20k or slightly less. The diesels which would be 01-02 powerstrokes with decent mileage will run $25-29k. My business is going to be a restaurant and the main purpose of the truck is to travel approx. 160 mi. round trip to pick up fresh seafood. You guys still think it's worth it for me to go with a diesel? Especially seeing that I'm not really pulling.

How often will you make this trip? Wil it be once a day, once a week or just "when you need it" kind'a thing? Also, who will drive the truck?


BTW, I did not see your first post .... but I'll welcome you one this 2nd post. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Burner

Well, since it's a startup biz, I'm only making guesses, but I plan on making this trip once or twice a week. I plan on doing the driving. Another twist to this scenario is that I might end up using this truck as a daily driver. Still debating about getting a 4 banger for that 50 mi roundtrip daily route.

Wish I could remember where I read this so you'd know I'm not just blowing Dura-Dust (smoke). If you drive more than 34000 miles a year the diesel will be cheaper to operate than a gasser cost wise for fuel. As far as the maintenance, up front it is more, but on a yearly cost comparison, for my wallet, the diesel works out to be a little cheaper because of the longer periods between oil changes, filters, etc. My LLY finally broke into the 20 MPG on last tank, but if you go used, I think the LB7's are doing a little better. And you gotta LOVEhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Heart.gif the power from these things.

Buy a new cheap truck like a stripped fullsize with a 6 in it (GM make a WT 1500 configuration). It should yeild you well over 20 MPG (especailly if it is a 2WD) on hiway and still have room for big items. You will not have to worry about repairs for a while and maintaince will be cheap too and it will easily go a few hundred thousand miles with good maintaince if you run it for a while. You have to drive a awfull lot with a diesel to every break even on the bottom line (well over 150K) and if you buy a used diesel and it breaks out of warranty the repair costs can be very hard on your bussiness bottom like. If you are starting a bussiness, reliabilty of your vehical can be paramount to its success if you travel a lot.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif you can never go wrong with a diesel. They will last longer, on average than a gasser. I don't hardly tow anything at all. I am in construction. I got mine due to longitivity. There are some 18 wheelers on the road with over 1,000,000 miles. you can't beat a diesel.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif you can never go wrong with a diesel. They will last longer, on average than a gasser. I don't hardly tow anything at all. I am in construction. I got mine due to longitivity. There are some 18 wheelers on the road with over 1,000,000 miles. you can't beat a diesel.

An eighteen wheeler is no P/U and a poor comparison. I have seen a lot of gassers go well past 300K and I have two now that are well over 200K that are 4 bangers and a V8 with close to 200k too. They all run great and use no oil. This is a old wifes tail the diesel in P/U's last much longer. The only reason this myth continues is because diesel owners MUST maintain engine regularly or they will fail much quicker than a under maintained gasser will and some gasser owners are soft on maintaince. Properly used and maintained a gasser will last about as long as any diesel in a P/U and will be a lot cheaper to repair when repairs are needed. Back in the late mid to late 70's when I was going to college, I drove a gasser C70 triaxle dumptruck about 6 months a year and it have a 427 with a 20 speed (5x4) and it had about 150K on it when I started driving it and it still ran well and was still all stock. I could also get about 5MPG out of it at 60,000 GVW on hiway too. Diesels are great in their uses but we did survive before they were around.

I average city highway 16 mpg ussually. I drive like a nut and you can look at my sig to see my mods. I havent been able to keep my foot outa it long enough to get a good idea of normal milage. The clsest thing was a road trip I took up to WI from central IL, I got 16 for that trip.....but I was running late and the only thing slowing me down at times was the speed limiter, I was cruising most times at 85. Still not bad for a vehical going 20 over the speedlimit weaving in and out of Chi town traffic with all the aerodynamics of a box of velveta.


As you can see from the used market disels cost more at first but they also hold thier value well.


I believe(and dont quote me, talk to someone with a clue) there are actual tax benifits going with a larger GVRW vehical(3/4 or larger I think).


To brake even with a disel you need to drive it alot or run fairly big loads.


I plow snow and drive about 25k a year or so. Does diesel pay for itself in my case? Well I suppose no because I coulda bought a cheap beater PU to plow or not even plowed(but it is a great way to write off part of a truck and make side cash) and bought a fuel efficent car....but I didnt want a car. I bough what I wanted. I've owned 13 or so vehicals and I've had this one a year and its the only vehical I've actually been really happy with the entire time. I actually enjoy driving my truck. So buying what you want is another consideration. If you can buy 1 vehical and stand to be in it all the time and write the whole thing off then http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


Also dont know if you need 4x4?


A old powerstoke should be a good reliable truck(although kinda gutless) but I would stay away from the 6.0 especially if you are looking used(the early models) The 01 up Chevy duramax is a pretty good powerplant too.


What ever you buy resale may suck for you if it reeks like fish at time of trade in, Id go for something with a bed instead of a SUV or a carhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Tongue.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Thanks for all the great input guys.....I'll tell ya one thing...I absolutely love the look of these big bad a$$ diesels.

From what I've seen, the Duramax gets the best mpg, with the Ford and Dodge being very close about 2mpg less. I'm getting just under 21mpg, but this is not pulling anything and mostly highway. For all around, I'd say the Duramax would be at 17-18mpg, with the Ford and Dodge at 15-17mpg. This is just my observation from the trucks my friends own.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif you can never go wrong with a diesel. They will last longer, on average than a gasser. I don't hardly tow anything at all. I am in construction. I got mine due to longitivity. There are some 18 wheelers on the road with over 1,000,000 miles. you can't beat a diesel.

An eighteen wheeler is no P/U and a poor comparison. I have seen a lot of gassers go well past 300K and I have two now that are well over 200K that are 4 bangers and a V8 with close to 200k too. They all run great and use no oil. This is a old wifes tail the diesel in P/U's last much longer. The only reason this myth continues is because diesel owners MUST maintain engine regularly or they will fail much quicker than a under maintained gasser will and some gasser owners are soft on maintaince. Properly used and maintained a gasser will last about as long as any diesel in a P/U and will be a lot cheaper to repair when repairs are needed. Back in the late mid to late 70's when I was going to college, I drove a gasser C70 triaxle dumptruck about 6 months a year and it have a 427 with a 20 speed (5x4) and it had about 150K on it when I started driving it and it still ran well and was still all stock. I could also get about 5MPG out of it at 60,000 GVW on hiway too. Diesels are great in their uses but we did survive before they were around.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifAn old wifes tell my a$$! I have owned nothing but gassers up until now and they were good-But on average a diesel will outlast a gasser.-ON AVERAGE


As for an 18-wheeler-no comparison? The motors are basically the same set-up as what we are using. And 95% of the time, they are pulling loads. The 18-wheelers have stronger frames for it, but so what? I am talking about the motor. I really don't see what the difference is between the two.


Maybe I am wrong, but that is just my opinion, and every mechanic that I have ever talked to.Edited by: dmaxfan

I will agree about the warranty. AznGunner, it looks like you'll have about 50k on the truck in a year. I think the best thing for you to do is buy (or you could leese) a truck every year. You could get a 1500 HD or something like that. You'll want something with a high GVW, not only for write-off but actual working or hauling ability. To ballance out... your payments would be high but you could have a new truck every year, that means a new warranty every year. You could do this until your business got a little stronger. However, you could just buy a new truck and get a secondary company to warranty the thing....... but if it breaks down..... you will wait.


I love my Diesels but.....Look at it this way.


Diesel go 50k and gets 20 MPG = 2,500 Gallons @ 1.50 per = 3,750 dollars a year on fuel. 5 oil changes in the year cost 400 bucks. Don't forget the fuel filters!


Diesel costs about 4,150 to drive 50k a year.


Gasser goes 50k and gets 10 MPG = 5,000 gallons @ 1.75 per = 8,750 dollars. 10 oil changes will run ya about 300 bucks.


HD Gasser, I'm useing a 6.0 or 8.1 block, would cost about 9,050 a year to drive the same ammount.


So the difference can be as high as 5k a year in fuel alone. Now, that's not really the case, just an example. The real difference is about 2,000 bucks a year @ 50k per year. Taking in account for "normal" driving when you're in a hurry. You could spend the extra on gas and truck rotaion and get a fresh warrenty every year.


However, I really do like a good diesel truck. Myself, I might get a new Dodge........ but not an old one. I had lot'sa problems out of the old body. The Ford is nice, it's just sssssslllooooooowwww. You should get 15MPG out of a 1999 + model with a 7.3. The GM is sort'a my fave but I have never avg more than 14MPG out of any tank and I've had two of them, 02 & 03.


End of story here is ........ if you have the time and are willing to learn a little about your truck ----- GO DEISEL. Other than that, just buy a gasser and thrash the hell out of it, trade it and do it all over again.





Snowman, you do have a point. My 89' stepside had around 500k on it when I sold it. I never ...well once... the timming shaft... race wore out @ 450k. Anyways, I had only one problem with the motor in 500k. I never even cracked a valve cover gasket... I mean nothing was done to that motor for 500k. The truck still had good power @ 500k, it would scratch off from a dead idle. However, AznGunner is running a business and wants long term value, dependability. Although my truck had 500k it had eaten 9 transmissions and 4 rears in that time frame. When you need a "work truck" you should buy one. Everybody worries about the motor but very few think about what the system was designed to haul.


My .02 worth





Burner http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

These guys saying they get 20mpg how fast are you driving and do you the LLY?? I sure cant get that much with my LLY unless i drive 60mph.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I dont think his plans call for hauling enough fish to need a high GVW. The difference between a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 or1 ton is a whole lota cans of tuna.


I never did like leasing, its like renting, you have nothing to show at the end unless you opt for the buy out. JMO


I also dont see 50k a year for him even if he uses it as his driver? Or did I miss something?


What would be the best biz investment and cheapest? Probably(unless the tax deal makes a difference) the cheapest would be to buy a new riceburner car or a TDI VW and run the wheels off it for work and a personal vehical(I assume you dont need to cary alot of fish???). But do you want one? Thats the big kicker, if you can swing either one but like a truck then go for it. JMO but I dont see the need for a big truck for you and if you dont need a truck then diesel vrs gas is a non issue. 99% of us here dont need trucks but the make life nicer and we want em. Most guys dont need a camper and I dont need to plow snow, plowing helps pay for a truck I want anyway but i would have been $ ahead to not buy the truck and buy a rice burner and drive the crap outa it. But I wanted my truck. Maybe you are hauling more fish than I am thinking?

FASTOYS,


I run 65-70mph most of the time. Again, this is on the highway. My mileage DID go up after I installed the 6-gun, about 1.5mpg. So without it, I'd be getting about 19-19.5mpg. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

This measurment via your dic or the old fasioned way? Mines the old fasion way, my dic isnt fully functionalhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif you can never go wrong with a diesel. They will last longer, on average than a gasser. I don't hardly tow anything at all. I am in construction. I got mine due to longitivity. There are some 18 wheelers on the road with over 1,000,000 miles. you can't beat a diesel.

An eighteen wheeler is no P/U and a poor comparison. I have seen a lot of gassers go well past 300K and I have two now that are well over 200K that are 4 bangers and a V8 with close to 200k too. They all run great and use no oil. This is a old wifes tail the diesel in P/U's last much longer. The only reason this myth continues is because diesel owners MUST maintain engine regularly or they will fail much quicker than a under maintained gasser will and some gasser owners are soft on maintaince. Properly used and maintained a gasser will last about as long as any diesel in a P/U and will be a lot cheaper to repair when repairs are needed. Back in the late mid to late 70's when I was going to college, I drove a gasser C70 triaxle dumptruck about 6 months a year and it have a 427 with a 20 speed (5x4) and it had about 150K on it when I started driving it and it still ran well and was still all stock. I could also get about 5MPG out of it at 60,000 GVW on hiway too. Diesels are great in their uses but we did survive before they were around.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifAn old wifes tell my a$$! I have owned nothing but gassers up until now and they were good-But on average a diesel will outlast a gasser.-ON AVERAGE


As for an 18-wheeler-no comparison? The motors are basically the same set-up as what we are using. And 95% of the time, they are pulling loads. The 18-wheelers have stronger frames for it, but so what? I am talking about the motor. I really don't see what the difference is between the two.


Maybe I am wrong, but that is just my opinion, and every mechanic that I have ever talked to.


You must not take care of your gassers as mine have all been very longed lifed and years ago I worked with a guy that did not consider a car high milage until it had over 300K on it and he had a few because he drove about 50 to 60K a year. Heh, I am not knocking diesels as they are great in their own right but I grow tired of hearing that you need a diesel to last. I have a retired 25 year old plow truck that pushed snow for many years and has well over 100k on it (that is all it was used for the last 12 years and it was parked off season) and it still starts and runs great and is still all STOCK. Keep any diesel P/U that long and watch your bank account bleed red and when a diesel wears out or even the pump wears out, be ready for a second mortgage to fix it. Are diesel stronger better tow'er? Generally yes. Do they use less fuel? generally yes too. Are they cheaper to maintain? no (more oil, expensive filters and two batteries and so on) Are they cheaper own? That is a big if because you can by a lot of extra gas for the price of a Diesel these days. It was nice when a Diesel was a 2200 dollar option becuae a break even was easier to achieve but those days are long gone.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif you can never go wrong with a diesel. They will last longer, on average than a gasser. I don't hardly tow anything at all. I am in construction. I got mine due to longitivity. There are some 18 wheelers on the road with over 1,000,000 miles. you can't beat a diesel.

An eighteen wheeler is no P/U and a poor comparison. I have seen a lot of gassers go well past 300K and I have two now that are well over 200K that are 4 bangers and a V8 with close to 200k too. They all run great and use no oil. This is a old wifes tail the diesel in P/U's last much longer. The only reason this myth continues is because diesel owners MUST maintain engine regularly or they will fail much quicker than a under maintained gasser will and some gasser owners are soft on maintaince. Properly used and maintained a gasser will last about as long as any diesel in a P/U and will be a lot cheaper to repair when repairs are needed. Back in the late mid to late 70's when I was going to college, I drove a gasser C70 triaxle dumptruck about 6 months a year and it have a 427 with a 20 speed (5x4) and it had about 150K on it when I started driving it and it still ran well and was still all stock. I could also get about 5MPG out of it at 60,000 GVW on hiway too. Diesels are great in their uses but we did survive before they were around.



http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifAn old wifes tell my a$$! I have owned nothing but gassers up until now and they were good-But on average a diesel will outlast a gasser.-ON AVERAGE



As for an 18-wheeler-no comparison? The motors are basically the same set-up as what we are using. And 95% of the time, they are pulling loads. The 18-wheelers have stronger frames for it, but so what? I am talking about the motor. I really don't see what the difference is between the two.



Maybe I am wrong, but that is just my opinion, and every mechanic that I have ever talked to.





You must not take care of your gassers as mine have all been very longed lifed and years ago I worked with a guy that did not consider a car high milage until it had over 300K on it and he had a few because he drove about 50 to 60K a year. Heh, I am not knocking diesels as they are great in their own right but I grow tired of hearing that you need a diesel to last. I have a retired 25 year old plow truck that pushed snow for many years and has well over 100k on it (that is all it was used for the last 12 years and it was parked off season) and it still starts and runs great and is still all STOCK. Keep any diesel P/U that long and watch your bank account bleed red and when a diesel wears out or even the pump wears out, be ready for a second mortgage to fix it. Are diesel stronger better tow'er? Generally yes. Do they use less fuel? generally yes too. Are they cheaper to maintain? no (more oil, expensive filters and two batteries and so on) Are they cheaper own? That is a big if because you can by a lot of extra gas for the price of a Diesel these days. It was nice when a Diesel was a 2200 dollar option becuae a break even was easier to achieve but those days are long gone.


How many gassers are on the road today and how many have 300000 or over?


Now, how many diesels are on the road today and how many have over 300000?


If you averaged the outcome of how many is on the road to how many are over 300000 miles you

If you want the best mileage and can put up with the nuisance, then get the manual as they get a 1-2 more mpgs. Also remember resale should be better with a diesel.

These guys saying they get 20mpg how fast are you driving and do you the LLY?? I sure cant get that much with my LLY unless i drive 60mph.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


When I'm on the highway, I drive pretty much 65 to get about 20.5 unladen. Of course, I usually don't drive 65 unladen, but did it once as a test for about 1000 miles. After that I pushed speed up, and mileage dropped to under 20.


Dennis

I have an LB7, drove about 450 miles round trip with cruise set at 74 mph. Mostly flat land as there are NO hills in Texas. I saw an overall average of about 22 mpg. My truck is all stock (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif) and I did not do any hard accelerations or passing.. On my last trip of 550 (roughly) miles round trip ran at 76 and got 23 mpg... DIC said 24 both times, but after hand calculations I got those numbers. Truck now has about 11K on it and still getting those same numbers...Glad I bought a diesel..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

WOW , those are good #s !! I can see that out of a LB7 but you guys are doing real good to see that out of a LLY IMO ! Good job ! I cant wait for my next long road trip to check mine agian but there are alot of hills in Kansas.

A new 4.8 gas is a good way to go. It will be cheaper in the long run and short run than a diesel. It will get slightly better fuel mileage and these motors will easily go 200,000+ miles. If you need a 2500HD or 3500 then the diesel only makes sense if you plan on keeping the vehicle about 100,000 miles. It will pay for itself versus the 6.0 gas if you keep it this long. And the Duramax is awesome power especially for pulling heavy loads.


My family owns all these trucks a '91 305TBI 2500 Light Duty(500,000+kms), a '97 K1500 6.5Turbo Diesel(300,000+kms), '01 1500 4.8 Gas 1500(145,000+kms), '02 5.3 Gas 1500 (100,000kms), '03 K2500HD 6.6 Duramax(48,000kms). From these trucks and from experience (I keep everything on a spreadsheet) I draw the above conclusions.

Well my LB7 gets 14 if im lucky. I get 12-14 on a regular basis. Yeah i drive pretty hard, and like to run in tow hual becuase i like to have instant power rather than downshifting, but I dont know why I get such bad mpg's. A lot of my driving is around town, not to much highway because i dont like to take the truck to work, I only use it on nice days. The best ive seen was 19mpg's unloaded in new hampshire in the mountains, go figure. Just my 2 cents.

i drove a 01 8.1 25hd my avg. mpg was 11.5 at its best. when i towed my tt 6500# dry i avg. 7.5 the truck had 2nd gen k/n intake ,airaid intake swirler. flowmaster ext. my lly gets 17.5 avg. as for towing i have not towed yet. lly has 500mi . hope my mpgs wont go down much

That's what I got with my 8.1. I tried a few times just to see what I could pull out of it for mileage. Filled up, drove ALL highway until almost completely empty, then filled up again. Only 11.5mpg on a crew cab short box. Talk about a hog. I traded it with 6000 miles on it. Doesn't compare to the Duramax as far as I'm concerned.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Mileage will also have a lot to do with whether the truck is a regular, extended or crew cab. It seems like the crew cab guys get lower miles/gallon... I have a reg cab and it gets 18MPG beating the hell out of it and about 20 when I drive slightly normal (that is all hand calculated) and I am only at 9000 miles, so the mileage will go up the more miles I get on it. I had a 90 Chevy Z71 with a 350 V8 and also a 96 2500 350, they each got around 12MPG. Right now you could get a good price on a used or new reg cab Duramax (if you can find one) I am very, very happy with my Dmax and if it treats me good for a lot of miles, I will probably never go gas again. I liked my 350's, but this diesel is saving me a hell of a lot of money, especially since diesel in my area is almost 20 cents cheaper than gasoline. And if you can do your own maintenance, then it won't cost much to maintain. Good luck!


Dan

I would like to thank everyone of you who have responded to this thread. With each reply, I feel more and more comfortable with purchasing a diesel. I also feel that with all this feedback, I have a "support" group of fellow diesel owners who would be willing to lend helpful advice should I run into any unexpected problems with my eventual purchase. As of right now, I'm leaning towards cummins but heavily favoring the dmax. I'll keep you guys posted as to which I go with....

You do have a great support group with this board.... These guys rock.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Just a little bit of info for you, hope it helps. I had a 02 Ram 1500 w/ a 5.9 and would get anywhere from 297 to 310 miles to a tank (26 gal) and I drive 42 miles oneway to work. So I'd fill up quite often. Yes I took a hit and bought a 03 GMC Sierra Duramax 4x4 w/ a short box same size as my Dodge and now I am getting close to 500 miles on a tank (24 gal) and the diesel is cheaper around here. So I am getting around 18-22 mpghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif. I am glad I bought the truck, it will pay for itself in the long run. Good Luck