Well I've gotten bit by the diesel bug now and have fiddled around with my calculator for hours trying to see my savings per trip(glamis, big bear, river, havasu, etc) and diesel always kicks gas right out the door. I'm now down to the question of what to get. I have a HEMI at the moment, it's ok, tranny is smooth, quick, and gives a comfy feel.


My cousin has a 2500HD with an 8.1L, I like the interior, it's not much different from the older ones but it nice. I love the seats, nice and deep, they seem to give a good ride no matter how nuts the driver is in a turn. The allision tranny felt like a friggin CVT because it was so smooth, infact I never really had the opportunity to take note of it other than when she floored in getting on the highway. I've heard Tranny shop owners say that the allison is bullet proof. My uncle(who owns a trucking company) wouldn't shut up about the thing and infact ordered some rigs with the tougher allisons in them.


That same uncle currently owns a F250 sporting the new 6.0L. The ride was nice, comfy, felt like the dodge just a lot prettier, inside and out. It tows a 11,000 pound trailer with no problems, he says 12mpg with the trailer, 15+ without and I believe him. Friggin HEMI makes 12 unloaded!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I think dodges interior is nice but the seats are horrible and I'd swap them out for some beards before I even did a lift. The engine is supposed to be the best engine you can get your paws on, quiet, and efficient. A friend of mine says 12mpg with a big 5000 box on the back on his 98(not sure about the year but it's the old style). I would imagine they've improved the gas milage since then.


I like the GMC the most from the exterior, dodge second, and ford last. I think my reason for not liking the ford is because too many people have the things. I'm sure that's for a reason, probably brand loyalty primarly as well as it's a good truck. Interior, GMC first, ford second, and dodge in 10th outta 3 spots.


Now on to the real questions, based on the above info, your experiences, which is best? Best fuel economy? Best pulling power? etc?


Thanks,


Marc

Well, biased answer here, but I say by the GM and enjoy it, the Allison is hard to beat in a pickup truck by far. But, that Cummins engine has a long standing good rep.. The Ford had gone downhill with the 6.0....


Just my .02

Another bias opinion.. But I would get the Chevy/GMC and be happy with it. You will not buy a nicer truck ....

The only one I would have real reservations with is the 6.0 PSD - its better but I don't know if its "fixed" so to speak.


I won't throw stones at the DC Cummins combo - its pretty much about preferance. If you don't need a full crew cab because that leaves the Dodge out of the picture - for now anyway.


They all have they're quirks. My neighbor is a die hard blue oval guy has a 6.0 and won't here of anything else. Three other freinds have a DC product - a '97 12V, 03 HO 305/555, and an 04 600. The last two are kind of what ever, the guy with the '97 will walk before he drove any other diesel. We use my DMAX for our work alot and I know when I'm not with him, he's got a bag over his head when he's driving it.


From a safety standpoint - if I was looking for an Extended cab size truck, I would look hard at the DC product because I prefer the door post between the 2 doors for strength and cab sealing. A sealing joint with 2 moving surfaces like the suicide door setup are not ideal IMHO.


Good luck - they're all mega bucks to buy (at least to me) so research carefully.


Cheers http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

can anyone name any common issues with the duramax? I mean a solid, consistant issue with them? I don't really know much about diesels but if there's 1 or 2 or more solid problems to watch out for I'd like to hear it. The only one I get is that they "aren't as pwerful as cummins and powerstroke" which is a weak point to make IMO. Exhaust or other upgrades can quickly fix that seeing as diesel, from what I can see, dramatically benifit from simple airflow mods. Edited by: tacowagon

not as powerful? You mean in stock trim? Dont buy that at all... in race trim, after you bolt on a bigger charger to your DC.....


Early trucks had some injector issues but GM has stepped up and extended the warranty to cover them for 200k. If your buying new.. its too early to tell what potential problems may lie ahead. I think that any of the big three make good trucks, and all have quirks, and all have very good points... But, I drive a GMC!

totally unbiased opinion here, buy gm!!! if i told you any different i'd get shot down on here! just kidding, i absolutely love my 04. i seriously doubt it would dissapoint you. wil

I may buy used and get a LB7. I wanna hang on to any waranty's I can get my hands on, I'd like to stick to simple things like exhaust and intake. Perhaps a power pack with a CPU enhancement(does that void?). Like I stated before I have concerns about the GM despite how much better a truck it is for ME. I sorta lack a boat load of money for mods so a $2000 turbo is not in my market. My lift will most likely be done by GS Engineering (http://www.gsengineering224.com), he's a friend of mine and I trust him.


On the note of power being in shortage. To be honest that arguement really gets me, exhaust and intake systems appear to add a ton of power TO THE TIRES, which is where it really matters.


After speaking with some of the cummins and ford nuts, they all really just wanna talk about making 600, 700, 800 horsepower and getting 1/4 mile times in the 12'shttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Now I'm young and like to go fast but I'm not into diesels to race, I'm in because of fuel economy and the fact that I can tow damn near anything I want. I think 315rwhp(modded of course) will suit me just plenty.


What is the big difference between the LB7 and LLY? If I do mods and get them to the same horsepower, will one have a dramatic amout more tourque? Will I ever know the difference? Will one do better on fuel? Is it actually worth my money to buy a brand new truck for a wallet and a half?Edited by: tacowagon

go for the d/max it is the only way to go................................................ .................................................. ..............................

Tacowagon,


It depends on how you buy. If big payments and heavy depreciation are not a problem, get what feels good to drive. Now, if you have saved some money a want a good used truck... buy an older 7.3 Ford, Cummins without the rail or an 02' Duramax. My choice would be the 02' Duramax. The truck shold be cheaper, yet still have good value later. I like the 02' because the Allisons seem to be holding up better than the 01's and the computer boards are "less" integrated than the 03's, 04's and 05's. Also, many of the programs out are more orientated towards the 02' and newer GM Diesel trucks.


Most likely the Ford and Dodge will puke there trans around 100 or 125k from what I have seen. The GM Allison should last a very, very long time....er... stock.


Burner


BTW..... are you a girl or a guy?

Funny you point out the 02, that's the begining year of the GMC style I like. I'm a guy, why? Does it matter? The 02 GMC is my favorite, I guess that'll be my happy # unless anyone disagrees with what he said. So far I hear: LB7>LLY, More mods for LB7, 02(year I've been eye balling like crazy) is best. Sounds like life is peachyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Edited by: tacowagon

nothing in the profile...........? It is nice knowing to whom you are speaking. Well, it is to me. I did not mean to stike a nerve.


LB7 is the 01, 02 & 03 setup with IHI Turbo


LLY is the 03, 04 & 05 setup with Garrett VV Turbo

nothing in the profile...........? It is nice knowing to whom you are speaking. Well, it is to me. I did not mean to stike a nerve.





no worries, wasn't sure what you were askin for, thought you were looking to pork mehttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I'm really likin the 02 thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I had an ol'e buddy we called Tac'o Wagon...her name was Stacy and frick'n HOT...no I mean REALLY FRICK'N HOT. Although, she would knock your theeth out if you wern't in the click and called her that. So, I just thought I'd ask. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

her current age? Might be my ex for all I know, I think she was called taco or something once...

She would be about 32ish.

not her





NOW back to the topic any further input guys?


Edited by: tacowagon

LB7 is the 01, 02 & 03 setup with IHI Turbo


LLY is the 03, 04 & 05 setup with Garrett VV Turbo





Actually LB7= 01, 02, 03 and 04


and the LLY = 04.5+ (truck built after 1/1/2004)

I believe the 01 and 02 are the same body style. The early 01's had some head gasket issues. I have an 02 with 35K (6K pulling a 7K TT between Portland and Albuquerque) and no issues other than the right horn failing and the right upper ball joint seal splitting.


You need to decide on style: Crew, Extended, or Standard cab then on whether you like the ride of the independent front suspension or solid axle. Personnally I would not have anything other than GM. My brother has a 2003 Dodge w/an auto but would rather have had a DMAX, price was the decider for him.


As for power, I would add the Juice if I had the money but I am satisfied with what I have (my tires last longer and I was able to pull the TT over Soldiers pass between Provo and Green River, UT in 5th gear as long as nothing got in my way to force me below 65 MPH).

JMbiasedO and impressions riding in and driving friend's rigs and researching:


New Dodge bodies and interiors are blatantly crappy (including the Hemi pos). Frame and Cummins are very good, even the 600. 600's have some minor issues still working out but looking good. Dana 80 in 600 a plus. Front ends very stout, ride so-so. Speed-so-so, torque-very good. Cons- well, it's not a GM :)


Ford 6.0 cheap-looking interior appears as likely to fall apart immediately as any other Ford, plastic creaks and rattles, apalling at the price. love the body, frame great, new trans has proven pretty good so far. 6.0 is very fast and quiet until reflashed for all the problems, then pilot injection is lost, noise increases greatly. Rear NP diff is stout, front end stout as always. Ride of even '03 F350 4x4 6.0 astoundingly smooth for a Ford truck. Fuel mileage is good. I'm a little concerned about the long-term reliability of the design approach of a small V-8 diesel that revs like a smallblock gasser to make its power. Impressive to me to drive, for a big Ford truck it is smooth and fast, at least empty. Cons- just look at that blue badge- as always, it says- will be "found on the road dead" :)


Duramax- I'm beginning to think late '01 to pre-emission '02, without cat, is the best overall Dmax, with reflashes and some mods added like ODLO. Engine and trans are undisputable winners. Diffs are stout. Interior is best of class, space is best of class, body is nice, ground clearance is compromised by drop-frame that allows great cabin space. Performance increase per dollar added is best in class. Fuel mileage is excellent, overall quality is very good. IFS provides best in class ride and I believe turning, but has it's weaknesses. Normally they show up only in severe apps like pulling, dragging, and crashing into ditches. For normal, on-road use I would consider nothing else. Cons- there's a little rumor about injector issues :), some A/C issues in '03 and '04, current LLY has dubious VV turbo, cooled EGR, emissions programming, is showing lower fuel mileage and issues w/ cooling system keeping up with heat load of egr. Given a choice, I would avoid current LLY. Unfortunately, all diesels are succumbing to EPA-induced design guidelines. Upside is usually increased efficiency despite the emissions stuff, though.


All in all, I've always been a Chevy guy, so Duramax is it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

Normally they show up only in severe apps like ... crashing into ditches.

LOL. Yeah, I would say crashing into ditches is a severe app. Didn't realize it was a activity one would consider a normal apphttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Jim

Off-topic a little... I know, but after one of the inebriated individuals in my camping group unwittingly did his Evil Knievel imitation with a just gorgeous Chevy CC/LB 4x4 dually about 4 years ago, the rest of the alcohol-soaked and Ford-infested losers I'm stuck with have been preaching about the "weakness" of the GM IFS. The fact that nobody we in the group know has ever broken one driving sanely and without undue incident, even off-roading, is apparently irrelevant. They overlook the fact that Knievel-boy had to launch drunkenly and blindly, in the dark, down a hill and airborne into a ditch, destroying his truck's front body, damn near his passenger, and injuring himself slightly in the process, to mangle that gossamer-delicate front end. Back at camp, removing 1 axle got him home, as I recall, tie rods intact but steering somewhat crookedly. Truck was brand new at the time, and had thousands in mods on it. Driving my old Toyota 4x then, I was in envy of the truck and in disbelief he had so negligently destroyed something so beautiful. Guess I'm just jealous he could afford to be stupid and I can't. Some people have all the fun. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I own a 01 and mine is a bastard and I hope GM can fix the injectors issues but Im not so sure. This truck went it's running is a fantastic truck but I have had so many problem with the 01 style injectors( Three sets and going on a 4th as soon as GM can get them)it hasnt been all that great for me but if the 04 Duramax have the new style injectors that dont break like the 01s then thats what I would buy. I starting tink think about trading mine in on a 04 but I havent seen how they are holding up with 50k on them yet so Im a little bit gun shy right now and I really don't want to keep going threw all the BS the local Chevy dealers are puting me threw.
I guess Im in a bad area of the country and most GM techs around here cant work on the Duramax but It sounds like the 04 Duramax is the way to go and I should have waited to buy 04 Duramax but mine is dead at the dealer with 52,000 miles on the clock and They don't know when they are gonna get the injectors but a GM rep is gonna come take a look at the truck and try and figure out why it has so many injectors with so little mileage and I really havent towed anything real heavy but I have towed my 79 Z28 Camaro with ease.

I just sold my 02 and am waiting on my 05. 02 was 32 months old, had 73,000 miles on it, and the only time it returned to the dealer was for 8 new injectors after 2 split 3500 miles away in Mexico and I drove it home. Truck was in excellent condition, the Duramax was as great as it was when new, the Allison was still perfect under all conditions, and everything else on the truck worked as when new. It sold for top dollar considering the mileage, first buyer to see it took it, with 3 backups waiting for him to back out. It cost me $11,000 depreciation over 32 months difference between purchase and sales price to go 73,000 miles, including over 50,000 of it in Mexico and Central America. As you can see from my signature, I've owned a lot of diesels, and prior to that, about 10 more gassers, including Ford & Dodge. The 02 was the absolute hands down best truck I've every owned or driven. Eagerly awaiting the 05, have already created an order with my dealer for a 07, but with all the talk of new emissions being a problem, might order a late 06 prior to end of model year. Oh yes, while I have had a lot of GM since 82, my second best ever truct was a 78 Ford Supercab 3/4 4X4 with a 460 Industrial motor put in it on delivery. Tough truck, but I rolled it off a powerline road above the Colorado River below Hoover Dam when the road gave way. Went down about 800 feet. Truck, not me. I got out quick. Anyway, point is, the DMAX is one heck of a truck, holds resale well, and the motor will go at least 3500 miles on diesel as oil without a problem. No gasser will run many miles with gas as oil.

JonB, I don't think any of the 01-04 LB7 trucks with Federal emissions have EGR or cats. Only the LB7 01-04 trucks with California emission do. The 04.5 and on LLY trucks also have EGR and cats. Edited by: mtomac

My stock early model '01 is about near perfect. Hardly ever any issues (now that I know how to strart the sucker after it sits two weeks or more). No head gasket problems, no injector problems, no nothing. Even got 40K out of the original fire pops. What's all the fuss about??????


I've had it since May of '01 built October 2000, got it new with 425 miles on it.


Since I bought it the warranty has gone up 100%....


I keep "hearing" those Fords making a crazy noise whern the guys stomp on them, really a dumb noise like its not a truck or something, a cracklin noise as it moves from a dead stop to about a quick 30-40 MPH. Weird sound....don't like it and wouldn't want to be seen doing that LOL ha ha ha

I believe the 01 and 02 are the same body style.





02 was the change in the grill for GM and 03 was for chevy. I want a 02+ GM.

mtomac,


I know egr is only on LLY+, but cats were showing up on mid to late Federal sticker 01's sporadically across the country. I know because I started crawling under and checking when I first heard of it when I was first interested in the dmax. Even found cats on 'em in Montana by end of '01. Yet, there were still non-cat trucks here in CA into '02, I think. I got mine in Oct '01, no cat, and I never saw anything about CA emissions on the stickers then, even in CA. How can you check for fed or CA for sure (RPO code/VIN?), and is there any difference in the stock PCM programming for CA?Edited by: jonb