Dealer called me this morning. My truck's delivery date has been moved up one week to 8/24. Pricing is final as well. Looks like the MSRP and invoice is up about $500. The rebate he quoted is $1,000.


The rumor about holds on dual alternators seems dubious. Not only did mine not get put on hold the build date got moved up a week.

Wow, 1000 $ rebate - 500 $ increase = 500 $ incentives?
Who can ever afford a truck like this?

That means the price went up at least 3500 $ (or more with your own expensive financing)

Just got a call from a dealer here in Louisiana. He said that there are still no prices out for the 2005s - nothing in the GM computer but they accept orders.

I am little confused, the kelly blue book has prices, the GM computer has no prices. Some guys have ordered already and it seems they got a price also.

Whats happening here?

How can you guys agree to buying a truck on order if you don't have a price? I can't see doing that myself.

Okay, this is driving me crazy. I'm trying to figure out whether or not


A) The new 310 / 610 numbers for '05 are accurate and....


B) If the new numbers apply to all the gears in the Allison not just 2 to 4 as the latest power bump did.


I have a diehard cummins guy I have to live with and am looking for some detailed information on the '05's.


Maybe you guys that are buying one (have bought one) know something.


Thanks

"Heavy-duty changes. Sporting a rugged look for 2005, Chevy Silverado Heavy Duty pickups feature a redesigned hood and grille. Both the Silverado and GMC Sierra Heavy Duty pickups boast a 15 lb.-ft. (20.3 Nm) increase in torque on the Duramax 6.6L diesel engine to a segment-leading 605 lb.-ft. (836 Nm) of torque at 1600 rpm when equipped with the Allison automatic transmission."





http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=6391 Edited by: turbo lcc

How can you guys agree to buying a truck on order if you don't have a price? I can't see doing that myself.


At last someone with some common sense, I was beginning to think I was wrong, and everyone else was rite, because what your saying has crossed my mine also, I just cant see handing over a big deposit to some salesman to order a $45000.00 truck without knowing what I'm going to pay for it upon delivery, whats going to happen if the salesman says hey buddy I'm sorry but theres a big price increase I need to pass on to you, and if you don't want to pay it to bad, because I have your non refundable deposit that I'm going to keep.

I put down a refundable $500 deposit with the fleet manager who is high school friends with a guy I coach baseball with. We agreed to a fixed amount over invoice and if I wasn't comfortable with the actual 2005 pricing, I could walk away as long as I didn't order some unusual configuration that would make it difficult for him to move.

The effective $2500 price increase may not be worth it to some. Getting the truck now instead of in 6 months when the rebates go back up is worth it to me. Getting a 2004 in the San Jose area hasn't been an option since mid-April. The few that were left were either white (the one color I wouldn't buy) or going for MSRP which even with the rebate is more than I'll pay for the 2005 with the price increase.

The new numbers, from what I understand, do NOT apply in gears 1 and 5-- only gears 2, 3 and 4.

As for non-refundable deposit...I have never heard of that here in IL. I special ordered my '96 Impala SS and I could have backed out of the deal even after the car arrived. Of course there might have been some penalty fee, but the bulk of the funds would be returned.

As for a price increase after the deal was done....no way...dealer eats it or refunds all monies. At least that how I think the laws here work. Additionally, dealers know what's in it and the costs...you just need a salesperson who knows what the heck they are talking about and where to get the info. I've already talked shop with 2 dealers and outside of being able to answer my questions about changes to cooling or A/C right out of the gate, they have been able to get me pricing and current GM rebates on the '05s.

Well if that's the case - I'll just keep my mouth shut. Why in the H3LL won't they just build the tranny to take the advertised torque in all gears, actually I don't even care about 1st that much but it sure would be nice to use the torque at highway speeds in overdrive. It drives me to drink this reduced power in 5th gear. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

I have a couple questions about the '05's power increase. Maybe someone can answer them. Does anyone know how they increased the power? Did the do it with just a new program or were there design changes in the engine itself? If it was an upgraded program can the '04LLY get this upgrade?

I have a couple questions about the '05's power increase. Maybe someone can answer them. Does anyone know how they increased the power? Did the do it with just a new program or were there design changes in the engine itself? If it was an upgraded program can the '04LLY get this upgrade?

That is a great question. I didn't read anything about engine changes and GM mouthpieces are ususally pretty good about braggin we did this....

My guess would be (and this is only a guess, not fact) that they did some tuning to it and not a hardware change.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifI ALWAYS buy my trucks at so many dollars over dealer invoice or at dealer invoice, depending on how hot the market is. I almost never know what the final price is going to be on my ordered truck until it arrives, and I don't care. The price is what it is going to be at the time the truck arrives. The dealer can't control the GM price to them that may be billed anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months from the time it is ordred. GM often has at least one price rise during a order waiting period. If the dealer is going to guarantee a price, your gonna pay more so he can protect himself. The dealer has to make money to stay in business. He makes most of it on the backside, but also most make some to a lot on the frontside. And what we are talking about as a 45K truck today is going to be a 50K truck tomorrow, 55 the next year or so, and on an on. 80K by 2010 and $3.00 a gal for diesel, $3.50 for gas. How many of you remember buying new cars and trucks in the early 60's for $1900 to $3000 - yes, that is $1900 for a new GMC pickup in '61 or '62. Gas was 29 cents a gal. Diesel for tractors was about 11 cents. Quit crying!http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Well if that's the case - I'll just keep my mouth shut.* Why in the H3LL won't they just build the tranny to take the advertised torque in all gears, actually I don't even care about 1st that much but it sure would be nice to use the torque at highway speeds in overdrive.* It drives me to drink this reduced power in 5th gear.* http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif*http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif*http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif*http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

One word... M O N E Y!

If they can play the numbers game, spend little money on the truck, keep the profits up, stay competitive, get it out there in less time, it's cheaper for all to just play with it rather than do it right the first time. GM is notorious for things like this...examples would be:

Pontiac Fiero
Not build right for several years...when finally done right...killed

Caprice Classic
Suppose to be the designers crowning achievement before retirement After it was too late, GM brass saw it and then the public saw the turd. Took GM 4 years to actually fix the car's look and then.... killed it.

1980s Suburban w/454
No 4x4 since the power was too great and they couldn't figure it out. Finally happened, but took a long while and sort of happened at the same time the Suburban's price darn near doubled partly due to the grocery getter population finding that they could drive these things and still have thier Lee press on nails.

I'm sure folks here could post thousands of GMisms, that might help understand why GM does what it does....it would make little sense at times. Always time and money to redo or fix something than do it right the first time. Edited by: Silvertwinkie

I guess the part I don't understand is that there has been 3rd party impartial testing done that shows that 5th gear can take this type of input - Edge Products Website for one. I understand that there are some long term reliability issues that I'm not addressing here that the 3rd parties don't necessarily put high on the list when developing a box but IIRC, wasn't 5th capable of around 650 ft-lbs all day long before there was slippage. That's what drives me the most is that they appear to have the hardware to take it already in the trucks but aren't using it. I don't understand the thought process at all, but I'm not sitting around the big round maple table when they are coming up with these decisions either. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Of course there is a difference between brand new tranny and one with some wear and tear. The manufacturer needs to have some margin for the wear and tear to at least make it through the warranty period.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that tranny won't take 650ft-lb forever, even though it may have been initially designed for just that. Edited by: Ray403Dmax

I'm with ya on not understanding the reasons...I just know from being a car nut that the weakest link in any chain is the one that you don't plan for...example, stroke out your engine, beef up the trans, but blow off the rear end. Sure it'll take it, but sooner, rather than later you're gonna have a rear axle rebuild. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

At any rate, not being an expert by any means, just reading and talking with folks, I too get the impression that the Allision, though very stout, isn't designed for over 600ft/lbs regularly. Sure it can be done, but I've also read Mike's info on what makes these things tick and it's like any other machine...you want the HP and torque at all areas, you're gonna have to pay to upgrade the drivetrain front to back. Of course, GM doesn't want to do that as it would up the price of the truck a grand or so, preventing it from being competitive (maybe). At any rate, keep in mind what we're talking about here to put it into perspective...we are still talking about 590ft/lbs of torque below 2000rpms. That is a very significant amount (IMHO). http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

590 ft lbs is significant - you're right. I just can't get past the derating for 5th gear. If you want to maximize the benefits of the diesel then you should be able to pull a load rated engine values in overdrive - not screaming down the highway or at every hill in direct, an 8.1 litre will do that for $5,000.00 less. Fuel economy on the dmax is nothing to right home about at 2800 plus rpm. Keeping in mind its almost a 15% derating from 605 to 520 when you go from 4th to 5th in available torque. Edited by: EMSi

About buying a truck without knowing the price. As stated above, if you're buying at a GMS price there is no haggling - period. Also you can pretty much count on only about a 1% increase historically between model years.


In my case, the dealer doesn't require a deposit and not a paper was signed (he did provide me with a copy of the order sheet though for my records). He even gives me the option of not taking the truck once it comes in! Why? A little trust on his part keeps me coming back and he knows that if I don't take the truck he'll be able to sell it anyways.


Don't get to used to the $3-4K rebates - those don't come around often and getting the usual $1000 or so rebate will probably be available.


So don't knock the guys buying without a firm price until you know their situation - what doesn't work for you may work for some else! Trust me fella's, I (and I'm sure most others in my situation are included) don't order a $40K truck on a whim without doing their homework first - we're smarter than that.

About buying a truck without knowing the price. As stated above, if you're buying at a GMS price there is no haggling - period.


There's no question that the discount is decided upon, however the final price is apparently still an unknown. You can estimate a 1% increase, but that's just a guestimate. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Ray403Dmax

Whos gonna be the first to make a SS diesel so to speak......a tranny that will hold a thousand ft/lbs. and a motor that will crank out 500 ponies to the ground from the factory? That would be a great marketing ploy that I can't beleive somebody hasn't tried yet!