Guys
I went under my truck and I turned the t-bar bolts about 1.5 turns. It looks like I gained about 1.5" of lift on the front end of the truck.

Questions:

1. does it sound about right about the turn/lift in inches ratio
2. is it abolutely OK to drive my truck like that for a while
3. after driving it for couple of days, is it going to "settle" more as far as more lift on the front of it?

I know that the CV angles changed I am just trying to make sure nothing is going to break to go bad cuz of the adjustment.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks alot.

Better get an alignment soon.

uh i dont think your turn to height gained ratio is right. it took 10 turns on mine to get 1.5in. how are you measuring the difference?

uh i dont think your turn to height gained ratio is right. it took 10 turns on mine to get 1.5in. how are you measuring the difference?

Holy crap, 10 turns?

I measured before I started cranking on them bolts the fender distance from garage foolr with a tape measure. I first did 1 full turn per side and I got alomost 1". Then I did another 1/2 turn per side and I got around 1.5" total lift on the front end of the truck.

Thanks for your input on thise guys...:o:

Better get an alignment soon.


for the tire uneven wear?

i have to agree that sounds off. i think a very close rule is 1 turn is equal to 1/4" of lift. my stock keys are maxed out on the drivers side and almost maxed on the passenger and im at 1.5". also 1/4" is the minimum to having to get an alighnment.

for the tire uneven wear?If you mess with the factory settings,it'll throw it off.

yea that cant be right, cause you can turn those bolts about ten times, that inturn would give you ten inches of lift. i'm confused?

One turn gives 1/4 inch but you might have to adjust 1/2 - 1" per side depending on the amount of lift. Your measurement was off because you needed to drive the truck a few feet or bounce the front end to get it to settle. No alignment is needed until you lift higher than 2 inches. Up to that point your still within factory spec. Rttoys can verify this. I have 7 turns on mine to get 1 3/4" lift and its within spec. Rttoys has more turns on his and has been driving it for a year without alignment. Its within spec and no adverse tire wear.

yea that cant be right, cause you can turn those bolts about ten times, that inturn would give you ten inches of lift. i'm confused?

so, my results is correct then. It looks like you said its a 1:1 ratio then, right? You said 10 turns=10 inches of lift. So, when I did my 1.5turns I gained 1.5 inches...Aint that right? :confused:

Thanks DangerousDuramax :)

From the factory my driver side sat about 3/4 inch lower than the pass side. I went 6 turns on the drivers side and 4 on the pass side. Its level within 1/8" Gained 1.5" on driver side and about an inch on the pass side. Yes i concure that 1 turn + 1/4".

From the factory my driver side sat about 3/4 inch lower than the pass side. I went 6 turns on the drivers side and 4 on the pass side. Its level within 1/8" Gained 1.5" on driver side and about an inch on the pass side. Yes i concure that 1 turn + 1/4".

Yes, our trucks lean to the left. Most people will have to add more turns to the drivers side to get it level. I have 7.5 on the left and 7 on the right to level mine. Probably sometime down the road I'll have to add a little more to the left side.

One turn gives 1/4 inch but you might have to adjust 1/2 - 1" per side depending on the amount of lift. Your measurement was off because you needed to drive the truck a few feet or bounce the front end to get it to settle. No alignment is needed until you lift higher than 2 inches. Up to that point your still within factory spec. Rttoys can verify this. I have 7 turns on mine to get 1 3/4" lift and its within spec. Rttoys has more turns on his and has been driving it for a year without alignment. Its within spec and no adverse tire wear.

That's exactly what my dealers service dept told me.

nice :cool:

I raised mine 8 turns to level it. I had so to get an alignment done right away because of the negitive camber it caused. As you raise the front the angle of the upper A arm increases which cause the negitve camber. The alignment shop said the upper A arms adjustment was maxed out, and that I should raise it any more.

It's still within spec without an alignment and wont wear the tires.

do you guys know off hand how much for an alignment?

I cranked my 04hd 1.5" and my buddy who owns a alignment shop did not want to go any higher on these keys. I also got a alignment at the same time because they showed me the result, I helped in the bay the whole time

did not want to go any higher on these keys.

whats wrong with the stock keys?

I concur with the 1/4" per turn ratio. After installing my snow plow mount, I wanted a bit more clearance. I turned mine 4 full turns and gained 1" of height. As stated above, you must drive or bounce on the front end to get it to settle. I then got it aligned - cost me $35.00. Cheap insurance. The shop guy said the right side was out more than the left, which makes me wonder if it was out a little from the factory. I can see where the adjustments were made on the top from marks in the undercoating/paint. Can't say whether it was out of factory specs before the alignment since I didn't think to ask that at the time. Incidentally, I saw no difference in ride quality after turning them, which was one of my concerns/reasons for only going 4 turns.

so, just to recap, can I go more that 4-5 turns on the stock t-bars and stock torsion keys? Is it going to hurt anything if and only if I get the truck to the alignment shop right away?
I did 1.5 turns and I still need to lift the front more. However, I dont know if its ok. I want it to be raised in front to match the rear height.

Thanks

Mine are cranked 7.5 turns on the right and 7 on the left and have plenty more I can go. 8 turns will give you about 2" of lift (level) and will put you on the edge of the alignment specs. I've been driving mine for 2 months with no adverse tire wear or ride without an alignment. When my new wheels get in I WILL have it aligned. FYI for the group- When I initially measured my truck at stock height it was off from the factory about 1/2". Thats why I have another half turn on the right.

so the factory torsion keys are no "hurting" in any way bu this, correct?

As long as you dont run them up into the cross member they are fine and quite strong. BUT, if your wanting more than to just level the truck then you need to start looking at some of the lift/leveling kits. Also, when using the keys to level the truck it will take the factory shocks slightly out of its designed travel range. You will want to look at either getting shock extensions or buying a slightly longer shock to compensate. I havent changed mine yet because I rarely go offroad with my truck and dont push the downward travel of the suspension. It rides and drives just fine. When I install the new wheels and tires I will be putting on different shocks that will bring the travel back into spec. Hope all this helps.

Thanks, bro.
No, all this info help me ALOT to understand whats going on here. All I am looking for right now is to LEVEL my truck and that is all. I have 1.5 turns on them right now. I will give it another 5 turns and see what happens. If that gets me there, then I am good. Maybe an alignment down the road for cheap insurance like it was said above.

You will probably want to go between 7 and 8 turns total. With the turns I have on mine it is almost completely level. It is just a hair lower in the front and you wouldnt even be able to tell unless you were looking for it.

Thanks alot for being understanding about my low knowledge on this. This is why I like this site better than the Impala's forums. :)

This is the place where I learned everything I've just told ya.:)

This is the place where I learned everything I've just told ya.

:exactly: Lots of good info when you combine all of this experience and knowledge in one place. One other thought on the Tbars: if your truck is leveled completely, I'm not sure how much of a load you can put on it without the rear end hanging down and the front lifting up. Kind of a reverse rake, so to speak. I'd bet that Dangerous Duramax can give you some perspective on that.

Other than possibly needing to have the truck aligned, are there any other problems that could occur down the road from cranking the torsion bars. Also, would it do any damage to anything like the CV Axles or anything like that. Thanks for the help, I am also in the low knowledge category on this.

When you start cranking the bars you start changing all the geometry of EVERYTHING. Most agree that more than 2" of hight over stock isnt good on things. It dosnt matter how you get to the 2".....if you use different keys, 1 turn or 20......also number of turns means nothing......its all about how much it gets raised. Some trucks react different than others. Jack up the front of the truck(so the tires are off the ground) and crank. Then drop the truck, bounce the front end and measure. Repeat as necissary. The first time I do it I also will measure the truck, then jack up the front end, then unscrew the bolts all the way out and put some antisieze on them, then crank em back to were they were and add a few turns, then drop the truck and measure. If you look at the back of the torsion bar in the cross member there will be a line in it. This is a good index mark. You can mark on the frame and know were the factory had it set our your ride high generaly is. Makes it easy if you change it much. But always measure before and after. The truck will settle after time.

Lube your torsionbar adjusting bolts and never adjust them unless you have at least partialy removed the pressure Jacking up the truck so the tires are just off the ground will remove most of the pressure, a torsionbar adjusting tool will take it all off.

Also, would it do any damage to anything like the CV Axles or anything like that. Dont be too hard on your truck when you do offroading and turn down the t-bar if you want to make boosted lauches and you wont break anything.

I cranked mine up 6 turns last... got about 1-1.5" of lift. I think it looks a little better :) I might throw it on the alignment rack just to see where its at.

As I have said before mine was 3/4" lower on the driver side from the factory. I have 6 turns on driver side and 4 on pass side. Yes the truck now drags its a$$ when loaded. How ever I put a lot of weight in it 1.5 to 2 tons daily. I do plan on installing 1.5" blocks on the back to help compensate.

nice, let us know how the alingment went, so I know :)

I work at a shop and we do the torsion bar turning for customers, if they request it. Ratlover said everything exactly right. Any time you change the geometry of your vehicle you should make the proper adjustment i.e ALIGNMENT. Also each vehicle is different and the turns mean nothing from truck to truck, however most should be close. My driver side bolt is adjusted more than the pass side and I didn't even count turns, just make sure to drive around the block and settle the front before final measurement.

So how much higher can you lift the truck by doing this? I only went 1" or so... what's the limit? Should you not tighten the bolt all the way? I'm just curious... I'd like a little more lift. If I do that, I'll definitely get an alignment.

I think that the max u can go with is 2", right? After that u definately need an alignment!

I dont know how much lift u get or even if its safe when you tight the bolts all the way.... someone can help this this?

Any time you change the geometry of your vehicle you should make the proper adjustment i.e ALIGNMENT.

No so. Cranking up to two inches does NOT take the alignment out of spec. There are master tech's who have verified this, not to mention the countless individuals that have have done it with no issues. Unless your doing boosted 4X4 launches there's nothing to worry about.

No so. Cranking up to two inches does NOT take the alignment out of spec. There are master tech's who have verified this, not to mention the countless individuals that have have done it with no issues. Unless your doing boosted 4X4 launches there's nothing to worry about.

x2 :)

Well, FWIW since I've cranked mine 6 turns (1.25") I have put some miles on the truck and it seems to be pulling to the left a little now and the steering wheels is off a little bit when trying to drive straight. I'm gonna get an alignment and see what's up. Also, my truck was pretty much brand new when I did this mod.

So you guys are sure that raising the front of the truck doesn't change the tow? Then what happens if you throw a trailer on behind,and drop the arse after raising?
If I so much as touch any part of the front suspension it will go to my local alignment rack where I watch and observe the computer monitor.

Well, FWIW since I've cranked mine 6 turns (1.25") I have put some miles on the truck and it seems to be pulling to the left a little now and the steering wheels is off a little bit when trying to drive straight. I'm gonna get an alignment and see what's up. Also, my truck was pretty much brand new when I did this mod.

The bars dont have even torque on them.

i just cranked mine 2 turns and got a hair over an inch. actually my truck has 117k on it and i had been noticing it seemed to be lower in the front than when i got it. i have the kent moore torsion tool that i got off ebay should i keep on crankin or get green keys?

You can crank alot more than 2 turn before you have to buy green keys. You can go at least to 8 turn and mabe up to 12...

How far can you go? Till the bolts bottom out or your suspention tops out. Most agree that 2" is about as far as you want to go till everything is well outa range(that even an alignment wont cure) and you could possibly start wearing stuff out. Plus you are taking alot of downward travel outa your suspention. Can you go more and can you run around with it for awhile and does your uncles brothers best friends sister have 8" of crank and she ok? Probably but we are trying to go with the better safe than sorry approach.

Different keys give you then same effect as more cranks. Only time you should consider different keys is if your bolts are maxed out and you want to crank higher. But if thats the case you are either past the 2" mark more than likely or you have some other issues to look at. JMO

You guys buy 40k dollar trucks, spend 2k on wheels and tires, then get upity about a alignment? If it were me I would get my alignment checked anytime I raised the bars even if its only an inch. If nothing else you can check that the factory didnt screw up or it hasnt changed. Yes your probably fine without it but for the 29.95$ to check or 60$ to fix it if its out you guys can stop being a cheap ***es :p: ):h

How far can you go? Till the bolts bottom out or your suspention tops out. Most agree that 2" is about as far as you want to go till everything is well outa range(that even an alignment wont cure) and you could possibly start wearing stuff out. Plus you are taking alot of downward travel outa your suspention. Can you go more and can you run around with it for awhile and does your uncles brothers best friends sister have 8" of crank and she ok? Probably but we are trying to go with the better safe than sorry approach.

Different keys give you then same effect as more cranks. Only time you should consider different keys is if your bolts are maxed out and you want to crank higher. But if thats the case you are either past the 2" mark more than likely or you have some other issues to look at. JMO

You guys buy 40k dollar trucks, spend 2k on wheels and tires, then get upity about a alignment? If it were me I would get my alignment checked anytime I raised the bars even if its only an inch. If nothing else you can check that the factory didnt screw up or it hasnt changed. Yes your probably fine without it but for the 29.95$ to check or 60$ to fix it if its out you guys can stop being a cheap ***es :p: ):h exactly, i cranked mine up about 1 3/4 and had the alignment checked , and it was outa wack .definatly worth the price to get it checked .

does your uncles brothers best friends sister have 8" of crank and she ok?

HEY!!! You forgot my twice removed cousins' daughters step son. :p:

How far can you go? Till the bolts bottom out or your suspention tops out. Most agree that 2" is about as far as you want to go till everything is well outa range(that even an alignment wont cure) and you could possibly start wearing stuff out. Plus you are taking alot of downward travel outa your suspention. Can you go more and can you run around with it for awhile and does your uncles brothers best friends sister have 8" of crank and she ok? Probably but we are trying to go with the better safe than sorry approach.

Different keys give you then same effect as more cranks. Only time you should consider different keys is if your bolts are maxed out and you want to crank higher. But if thats the case you are either past the 2" mark more than likely or you have some other issues to look at. JMO

You guys buy 40k dollar trucks, spend 2k on wheels and tires, then get upity about a alignment? If it were me I would get my alignment checked anytime I raised the bars even if its only an inch. If nothing else you can check that the factory didnt screw up or it hasnt changed. Yes your probably fine without it but for the 29.95$ to check or 60$ to fix it if its out you guys can stop being a cheap ***es :p: ):h




X2. don't be a cheap **S

I know this thread is about a month old but I didn't want to start a new one on the same subject.

I cranked the t-bars about 4 turns on my previously owned '02 2500HD ECSB and it seemed to stiffen the ride a bit. I wanted to raise the front a little more but was afraid it would get even stiffer. It's my understanding the t-bars handle quite a bit of "pre-load". I still had a good range of travel on the factory shocks but bought some Ranchos just in case I ever raised it more.

Just purchased an '04 2500HD CCSB and want to level it as close as I can. What other options are out there other than purchasing a Cognito kit or similar priced kit? Don't those run about $450-$500?

Thanks folks!

I wanna know how some of you guys are fitting 35's with cranking the t-bars...

Are you MAXing them out...? & hows the ride?(stiff)

will buying other lift keys help on the ride...?

just my .02 i raised my friends truck level then checked the alignment it was out and enough to were i could not adjust caster anymore to get it in specs i know that caster wont wear tires but it will affect ride and retunability.i have trucks come in on a daily basis and sometime they are out of alignment all i do is level the truck with the torsion bar and the alignment comes into specs.turning the torsion bars up will in most cases bring the alignment out of specs some it may not it may have been out of specs before the adjustment and when you raised it it brought it in specs.yes i am ase certified and been doing alignments for 17 years.now not to start anything this is only my opinion and what i see on a daily work day.good luck

if you dont want to spend the money on a cognito kit your best option would be to just get good quality and longer shocks, this will give you alittle more down travel, but not as much as the cognito. a good rule of thumb is 1/2-3/4" between the upper control arm and bumpstop. but like banshee said you might not come into specs, depends on the truck and how far they are cranked, that is why most go with the cognito uca's.

Really before and after is the only way to do a controlled experiment. Do a aliment check first and I'll bet you even thought your truck is in spec, it's not perfect. Wright down your numbers, raise it up a inch and half ( about 7 turns) and check it again.

Let us know what you find.

Mine are almost maxed out. Dealer did 6 turns and I did an additional 3 or so. After thr 3, the wheel pulled to the right quite bad. The alignment shop said that since they're cranked so much that its nearly impossible to get them 100% within specs. I dont know how true this is but I havent had any problems at all and the front came up a good 2".

so.. the guys running the 315's, are way out of alim. ?????

cause there saying, theres maxed out... i think i might just go with a lift kit... cranking em sounds like alot of problems....