I'm just going to throw this out there. Tell me what you think.


My family and I have a grain farm, we have over a dozen diesel engines on the farm. We have diesel delivered in bulk from the local Coop. They switched us over to a bio-diesel blend this past year. During wheat harvest which happened in mid-late June, we noticed that some of our equipement was starved for power. We have a 1986 Intenational Grain truck with a DT466 in it. It struggled to pull some heavy loads that it normally handles with ease. The other one we noticed was the combine, it's a Deere 6.8 Liter I think. Any small grade it had to climb in the field resulted in the engine moaning and groaning.


My question is, could the change to bo diesel contribute to any power loss? Are there the same BTU's per gallon of fuel as regular non-blended fuel?


We've noticed the truck having trouble before in the extreme heat, but never like this. The combine has never had this problem before. My dad claims Bio-diesel, I don't buy it. I can't put my finger on it yet, but I say it has something to do with the heat and humidity. We had a wet spring and high temps this year which made for some hot and humid days. I know there are guys here who live in AZ and other places where it's very hot, but does anybody battle high humidity and heat at the same time?

Bio diesel can have a much higher water content... have you ever had any of it analyzed?

No we haven't, how would I go about doing that?

you can take a sample and send it off to a lab. Contact George Morrison at avlube.com. i'm not sure if he can analyze bio-diesel but its worth a try.

Buckeye,


What blend are you running? B20 blends--which is what is mainly sold at pumps--usually meets ASTM 975 spec--which is the spec for our trucks.


My B20 sample read around 120ppm water--usually Diesel reads around 40 to 50ppm water. Allowable spec is 500ppm water.


Pure Biodiesel does have have a lower BTU rating--I am not sure the exact percentage less--but it also burns more efficent.


I have made a sample run with B100--freeway driving--and saw no change in MPG. Did not TOW--so under full load--cannot say.


Current--when I run B20--no change in my mpg compared to #2 Diesel.


But this is in our trucks--it may not apply to your farm equipment. You may want to try puchasing some #2 Diesel and see if it goes away.

How old is your stuff?

A VERY common thing to have happen with Biodiesel is the plugging of fuel filters in the first tank due to the biodiesels solvent nature. It will clean the entire system very well, anc this plugs up filters, and starves engines for fuel. After that, it should work very nicely.

Change those filters!!!

Manny


The combine was in for it's winter inspection this past spring, both the sediment filter and the fuel filters were changed. This would have been the first that engine has ran since then. The grain truck I can't remember when they were changed.


Your logic makes sense though. If the bio-diesel blend cleans the tanks and the fuel lines etc, it could have plugged the filters. This is the first time any of those engines have ran extensively since we made the switch. I guess if that's the problem then it will only get worse. However, none of the tractors had this problem this past spring. They've had more of this fuel through them than anything on the farm.


Things that make you go hmm........Edited by: Buckeye03

Go ahead and change the filters. Been lucky so far and have always had a spare for my equipment when one has clogged. Shortest filter life? 1/4 tank of bad diesel fuel from Sunoco. Also make sure the tank strainer isn't clogged.

Buckeye


I have used B5 in my tractor for over 2 years with no problems, before the switch I shocked the fuel tank with a heavy dose of cleaner and ran it thru the tractor then changed filters before switching to B5. This was recommeded by the Ford/New Holland service manager. Check with your supplier on the B rating. Most dealers/suppliers in this area are supplying B2 or B5. That should be safe with most equipment. On real old diesels it may not be a good to go over B2 because the biodiesel will disolve the seals and etc.


Engineer BillEdited by: EngineerBill

Buckeye03,

Check the filters. I changed two filters on our tractor in the month we switched to bio. They were the most filthy I'd seen from doing regular maintance over the years. Since then power has been normal. I hope that solves your problem.

Good luck,
Michael

just posted in other bio forum, i forgot to say the the main problem at first with the fleet was the lack of power complaint. r/r fuel filter problem went away 95% of the time

Buckeye,


What blend are you running? We've run up to B100 (from recycled fryer oil) with varying results in a 6.5 as well as a late model VW TDI. We've been through the filter changes and sludge clean-outs. The VW sees very little effect on power or mileage. The truck seems to have somewhat reduced power and MPG - particularly when working hard - towing (around 8,000 lbs) or running fast on the highway. My seat-of-the-pants theory is that the harder the engine is working, the greater the loss of power or efficiency. Biodiesel has higher cetane but fewer BTUs of embodied energy. This might be the difference for engines on heavy equipment running heavy loads. - Any automotive techs or engineers out there to weigh in? Other ideas:


The energy content of the biodiesel might vary by feedstock- virgin or recycled, soy, canola etc.


Water content might also affect performance. As said above, bd can end up with higher water content. It absorbs more water than regular fuel, so keeping it stored dry is critical. Humid weather might also factor in. Experience in Nevada might well be different than Louisiana - or Ohio.


Thoughts?


KN

We've got the filters bought, but haven't had time to put them in. We're in the middle of show season for our antique tractors. Maintenance on equipment that won't move until fall is getting put off right now. The problem is that after we change filters, there isn't a way to immediately test it. We'll have to wait till harvest, then we'll be too busy to troubleshoot anything. Maybe in between rains.


The thing that bothers me is that those two machines are the only engines with this problem. The tractors have had more of this fuel through them than anything with no problems. Although, pulling seeding equipment doesn't demand high horsepower. At least not in our setup.


As far as the blend, I don't know, I'm sure it's a soy blend, probably a b20 or something. It's what the local grain coop delivers. I asked Dad and he responded with the perverbial deer in headlights look.

Most Coos in the midwest are selling B2. With that little amount you should not see any lose in power. I can tell you that it will clean out a system and it might take a couple of early filter changes to solve your problem.





Greg

This wasn't from Bio-diesel at all, but is very similar to your problem. Back in 1981, my dad bought some stuff that was supposed to give you more power etc. when you add it to your diesel fuel. Well, my dad added it to our bulk tank and every thing was fine. Tractors did not have a problem. Now along comes harvest. Changed the fuel filters on the combine, changed oil and filters.... the normal stuff before hitting the fields.


We only got about 10 hours on the combine and started having problems with it. No power etc. Diesel tech from the dealership came out and spent 4 days trying to find the problem. Finally dad got po'd and traded the combine so we could get going again. We had a Gleaner L and got an IH 1460 axial flow.


A couple of weeks later my dad talked to the IH dealer and he said their was no return fuel flow on the old combine. They tracked it back to the fuel filters. They were plugged tight. Put new filters on and it ran great. That was the only thing the diesel tech and my dad didn't check because we had just put new filters on it and had maybe 10 hours at the most on them when we started having problems.


What ever that stuff was that was added to the fuel really cleaned all the varnish out of the fuel tank on the combine. When you think about it, a combine probably sits for 10 months out of the year without moving, and that diesel gets a little old. At least with the tractors, they get used in the spring and the fall, so you don't have as big a problem with the fuel getting as bad in the tank.


My dad had planned on getting a new combine, just got it a year earlier. They ONLY bad thing about it was at the time, the intrest rates were sky high. IIRC, the intrest rate on the loan from the bank was 17%. Needless to say, that was one loan that kept on getting refinanced to lower rates.

Std #2 diesel b-2 b-5 b-20


btu's 140,000 139,800 139,5000 138,000


mpg/hp -0.5 % -1.5%


cetane +1 +3


emission reduction +10% +47%


lubricity 30-57% 30-57% 30-57%


Corrosion prot. none none none none


Injector cleanliness " " " "


moisture control " " " "


bacteria control " " " "


Edited by: salesrep