Has anyone heard anything about the engines in these trucks catching on fire due to the high pressure fuel system?

We are exploring the use of a duramax lbz engine in an ambulance and this was one of the points brought up.. The maintenance manager told me that he was told that this engine is not used in ambulances because of the higher risk of fires....

He's FOS.

The fuel system is very well designed and I doubt there is any higher risk of a leak then there is with a low pressure system.

If there is a fuel leak the chances of a fire are just as great no matter if it is low pressure or high pressure.

Tell us how you really feel:D

Tell us how you really feel:D

Sorry :D I get really sick of all the lies and BS surrounding the Duramax. It is now going on it's 7th model year and proven itself to be a contender. It has revolutionized the light duty diesel pickup market and it doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.

I have seen Duramax/Silverado Ambulances in Baton Rouge, LA

Sorry :D I get really sick of all the lies and BS surrounding the Duramax. It is now going on it's 7th model year and proven itself to be a contender. It has revolutionized the light duty diesel pickup market and it doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.

Brother, the Duramax is more than a contender, it IS the new standard. Ford and Dodge are spending millions to catch up. I believe in if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is nothing wrong with the Cummins. It has been a good engine for Dodge, but I hear they are developing a V8 model to compete with the Dmax. Ford, well that just makes me laugh. The 7.3 was and still is a good motor. I have friends who have well over 200K miles on them. That 6.0 came close to breaking Ford, now they are changing again. We may have updates and improvements to the Dmax but I believe it will be here for a long time.;)

Brother, the Duramax is more than a contender, it IS the new standard. Ford and Dodge are spending millions to catch up. I believe in if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is nothing wrong with the Cummins. It has been a good engine for Dodge, but I hear they are developing a V8 model to compete with the Dmax. Ford, well that just makes me laugh. The 7.3 was and still is a good motor. I have friends who have well over 200K miles on them. That 6.0 came close to breaking Ford, now they are changing again. We may have updates and improvements to the Dmax but I believe it will be here for a long time.;)

I completely agree. I just didn't want to make too bold of a statemend and get a bunch of argument :D

There are Duramax powered emergency vehicles all over the country operating without a problem. :rolleyes:

Besides what will you do when ALL midsize diesel engines are common rail with HP fuel systems. Ford is going that way and so is Cummins. :banghead:

the v-8 engine cummins is working on will go into the half ton pickups. the v-6 engine cummins is working on will go into the suv's.gm better get their head out of the sand and drop this e85 push and start working on diesel engines for their suv's,etc or they will be left behind-playing catch up. dodge will not give up the cummins straight six!!! th only way that will happen is if d/c makes them use a mercedes engine!

the v-8 engine cummins is working on will go into the half ton pickups. the v-6 engine cummins is working on will go into the suv's.gm better get their head out of the sand and drop this e85 push and start working on diesel engines for their suv's,etc or they will be left behind-playing catch up. dodge will not give up the cummins straight six!!! th only way that will happen is if d/c makes them use a mercedes engine!

the diesel that's going into the Grand Cherokee after the first of the year is an MB 3.5 V6--same engine as their E-class sedan I believe..

Sorry :D I get really sick of all the lies and BS surrounding the Duramax. It is now going on it's 7th model year and proven itself to be a contender. It has revolutionized the light duty diesel pickup market and it doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.
No sorry needed I'm still laughing about it & I 100% agree with you

Sorry :D I get really sick of all the lies and BS surrounding the Duramax. It is now going on it's 7th model year and proven itself to be a contender. It has revolutionized the light duty diesel pickup market and it doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.

MAX, I agree with you! I don't know where these people get their stories from and it makes me LAUGH at how STUPID these people sound when telling these stories that they heard from a friends cousins girlfriends uncles sisters brother..

If it is such a problem then why is the common rail high pressure system used in the Ag and Construction industries where it is in some of the most undesirable conditions for starting a fire. You won't get much worse than a combine.

Probably no more dangerous than the intercooler and turbo that BLEW up on our ambulance during a code red response. Blew hard enough to dent the hood.. and the ambulance never made it to scene. We had to call another one from 30 miles away :mad: Btw..that was a 6.0 Ford PSD..

The biggest thing holding back the Duramax in emergency service uses is the fact that Chevy in their infinate wisdom still refuses to make a chasis cab with enough GVWR to handle the weight of the boxes and gear required on an ambulance or light rescue rig. Our ambulance goes across the scales at 12,000lbs..which is 600# over what Chevy offers. Our light rescue truck goes about 15,000# and sits on a Ford F550 chasis.

I also can't buy a Duramax for my light delivery trucks because they cannot handle the payload I need. My lighter delivery trucks are 15,000 GVW Ford F450 dumpbeds and I am looking at a 19,500 GVW F550... It pisses me off to no end that I can't get a Duramax in these style trucks..and no, I'm not interested in a Kodiak.

the v-8 engine cummins is working on will go into the half ton pickups. the v-6 engine cummins is working on will go into the suv's.gm better get their head out of the sand and drop this e85 push and start working on diesel engines for their suv's,etc or they will be left behind-playing catch up. dodge will not give up the cummins straight six!!! th only way that will happen is if d/c makes them use a mercedes engine!


It's my contention that there aren't alot of American women that will pump diesel fuel and that will put up with the odor. I think it'll be quite some time before the light diesel vehicle market takes off in this country.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread and I agree... He's FOS

It's my contention that there aren't alot of American women that will pump diesel fuel and that will put up with the odor. I think it'll be quite some time before the light diesel vehicle market takes off in this country.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread and I agree... He's FOS

I dis-agree about women not going to fuel diesel, so the market won't be there for sometime. I remember when Full Service Gas stations were the norm!!:rolleyes: She sure started fueling GAS if the price was cheaper and that left more money for their shopping spree :eek: If the government would ever find out why diesel fuel is more expensive than gas now; and get it back to where it was before, I believe women would fully embrace using diesel. My 0.2 cents:cool:

Yeah he's full of donkey droppings.

Then there was the county motor pool manager that told me he couldn't buy light dump trucks with automatic transmissions because they didn't have automatic transmissions with power takeoffs to run the lift pump! Bozzo fool, he was standing next to a dump truck with an electric dump pump and automatic transmission!

They hire these guys for something other that knowledge, skills and ability.

The govt does give tax credits for hiring the handicapped.:) One of the other reasons why you don't find a lot of duramax ambulances are that Ford will sell them cheap to the companies that manufacture them so that they can keep the per unit cost down at the assembly plants. The same with the rental car market. If the Duramax is such a fire hazzard then why would our local brush fire rig be a 3500 reg cab srw duramax?

Well.... I think the Big Problem with V8 diesels burning up is the fact that the Turbo and piping system is designed so Critters can build Nests around the Turbo which will eventually ignite when the engine is under a heavy load. I have read on one case right on this site and have heard of a few others.... Not so much a problem with an Inline 6 as it doesn't have them Hot Pipes running all over the back of the engine...:eek:

As far as the Gals and diesel I have seen a few with the new diesel VW's and they seem to get along Just Fine.... And are Rather Pround of the mileage they get....:)

I see Dmax Ambulances around Houston everywhere. Makes me smile. They had to do something since the Ford's weren't making it too far without problems :D


Also, the diesel smell isn't that stong. My wife comments that it is better than pumping gas in her car.

I've never thought much of diesel equipped emergency vehicles, with the exception of large equipment such as pumpers or emergency response vehicles that put on a large amount of miles.

I think pumpers and tankers need the diesel engine because it's the only way to get to the scene before the house burns down. Our gas trucks are SLOW..... But the other equipment doesn't see a lot of miles in most emergency service applications. The mileage doesn't pay for the increased cost of the diesel fuel and motor. Further, diesel engines are heavier and lower the capacity of the truck. They put the weight over the front wheels, which is really bad in a long dually (like an ambulance). You'll get stuck a lot more than otherwise. Maintenance is more difficult and harder to fine technicians for.

My biggest concern is that of gas and runaway diesel. You can be responding to an accident scene and have the truck runaway off the fumes in the air, when a gas truck would not do that.

Newer gas engines should be able to keep cool and not run hot idling like the older ones did, and all are computer controlled and high idle capable.

I don't think I would reccomend one for a dept unless they are putting over about 15k per year on it or in a very large truck.

It's my contention that there aren't alot of American women that will pump diesel fuel and that will put up with the odor. I think it'll be quite some time before the light diesel vehicle market takes off in this country.

Or Not...;)

I think the biggest reason you don't see many Duramax's in ambulances is because to the best of my knowledge GM Doesn't make a cutaway van with a duramax in it. For does. So if you do see a duramax it is a type 1 ambulance or now that they have duramaxs in vans I guess you will see some type 2s as well. I know around here they all want type 3s.

I spend a bit of my spare time looking abound wrecking yards and on the next for wrecked D'A's and have personally only seen two burned D'A's, both which had been sold to rebuilders for parts. One had a cab burn (CC) only with the fire starting on the passenger side of the cab in the rear seat area. Bad cab burn, but motor area and bed like new. The other (cc as well) had a bad cab burn and a bad engine area burn. Could not tell where it started, but none of the fuel lines appeared to be broken. Neither burn was an accident, only fire. Just don't see many D/A fires. Now Furd, that is a different item. Still don't know why.

The reason that the LBZ is not used in ambulances is because they are based on the van body instead of the truck body.
The van prevents the use of the Allison tranny, so those bodies get the detuned LLY at only 250hp, since the GM tranny can't handle the torque of the LBZ.

Still, the '06 LLY has the same fuel rail pressure and electronics, the only difference between the '06 LLY and LBZ is the program.

There has been ONE report of an engine fire posted here in the last 18 months, and IIRC, it was not an LBZ.

The difference in rail pressure is something like 21,000 vs 26,000... not significant from a fire risk standpoint.

I think we have around 15 ambulances... All have been the van body... Starting next year they were told to change an injector will require the total removal of the engine, on ambulance rigs... Another reason I think we should go to the Pickup cab bodys,,, Less work! :) Houston Fire Department has had pickup cabs for the last 20 years, maybe longer... They have 84 ambulances in service and no telling how many back ups....

Well -

A big metropolitan area with a lot of medical calls is not what I was thinking of when I posted. You guys may want a diesel. I still think that runaway is a problem, and all emergency equipment should have a intake valve to shut the thing off if it's running a diesel.

I like the pickup cabs too.

This is the one I was refering to... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82995&highlight=Engine+fire

It was eventually traced to a Critter nest near the turbo.... I have since seen a couple in JY's but did do much investigating....

As far as Ambulances the Worst was the Ferd 460... The Dam Thing got so Hot it would just catch on Fire... Thats why you see so many Diesel Ambulances now.....

I have been running diesel engines in trucks and heavy equipment for over 20 years. I have only seen one runaway and that was a two-stroke Detroit 15 years ago. I really think it's a non-issue for emergency service trucks.

I'm not even sure that a newer diesel would have the capability of running away.

The critter nest is a non issue also. It's so rare that it probably wouldn't even count on a properly maintained truck. Even if they get in the airbox it's pretty tough to get through the airfilter.

The problem with specifically emergency vehicles is that many accidents have gas running around. A vehicle accident can hit a gas line or meter, or a propane leak or even gasoline vapors from a wrecked vehicle can make it run away.

I guess we haven't covered that possibilty in our training as I am already a F.F., Rescue Tech and EMT. I would think that if fuel in the air was in enough concentration to allow a diesel to run on it...that would be the least of my worries at that time:eek:

We went to a call on Thanksgiving where a guy had hit a gas meter right next to a power line with a diesel truck. It's 1 1/4" line running 30 PSI. We parked a block away. If that thing had ignited, it could have been very bad, as a gas fire on top of a vehicle with electric lines down would have been a real headache.

The guy shut his truck off right away, but any of us arriving could have ignited it if we hadn't smelled gas and heard it at the station when we left.

I actually don't think it happens that much that they run away.

Has anyone heard anything about the engines in these trucks catching on fire due to the high pressure fuel system?

We are exploring the use of a duramax lbz engine in an ambulance and this was one of the points brought up.. The maintenance manager told me that he was told that this engine is not used in ambulances because of the higher risk of fires....


That's rediculous. I've seen a DMAX ambulance in my area.

I've never thought much of diesel equipped emergency vehicles, with the exception of large equipment such as pumpers or emergency response vehicles that put on a large amount of miles.

I think pumpers and tankers need the diesel engine because it's the only way to get to the scene before the house burns down. Our gas trucks are SLOW..... But the other equipment doesn't see a lot of miles in most emergency service applications. The mileage doesn't pay for the increased cost of the diesel fuel and motor. Further, diesel engines are heavier and lower the capacity of the truck. They put the weight over the front wheels, which is really bad in a long dually (like an ambulance). You'll get stuck a lot more than otherwise. Maintenance is more difficult and harder to fine technicians for.

My biggest concern is that of gas and runaway diesel. You can be responding to an accident scene and have the truck runaway off the fumes in the air, when a gas truck would not do that.

Newer gas engines should be able to keep cool and not run hot idling like the older ones did, and all are computer controlled and high idle capable.

I don't think I would reccomend one for a dept unless they are putting over about 15k per year on it or in a very large truck.


Almost all of the ambulances in the Houston area are ford diesels and have been for years.. HFD uses chevy gas engines though.. The ford diesels are fast enough and powerful enough and beat the gas engines out in fuel savings... AND around here we put a lot of miles on our ambulances... The one I have at my station is less than a year old and already has 50,000 miles on it...

I'm not even sure that a newer diesel would have the capability of running away.
If the turbo goes catastrophically (as in you're running 40psi of boost doing a sled pull) it will start dumping engine oil into the intake and you get a runaway.
Any one of a number of things will stop it....

The CAC fills up with oil and chokes the airflow.
The engine runs dry and blows up.
Somebody throws a rag into the intake.

If you get in a concentration of LP or NG that is enough to make an engine run away you're going to have other things to worry about. Likely by that time something else is going to have caused a big boom.

Ambulances have accidents too. What about the greater volatility of gasoline than diesel? As far as a positive air shutoff it's simple and easy. EVERY engine that can get close to a sour well has one up here. Pickups,rigs,cranes whatever.

He's FOS.

The fuel system is very well designed and I doubt there is any higher risk of a leak then there is with a low pressure system.

If there is a fuel leak the chances of a fire are just as great no matter if it is low pressure or high pressure.
Fires are a critical issue on boats. And yet all the marine diesel engine manufacturers either already have high pressure common rail fuel injection systems or are in the process of releasing them. The new emissions regulations are forcing everyone to go to the high pressure common rail design because it gives better control and higher combustion efficiency. So, I agree with Max Power, that guy is FOS!

A big part of the reason that you see more Fords in ambulances is because Ford is much more friendly to body builders than GM. Ford offers quite a bit in tech help and actually engineers some items to accomodate the upfitters, GM has the attitude of, this is what we build, make it work.
GM also doesnt have a diesel van.

I have been to the Wheeled Coach ambulance factory in Winter park Florida at least 6 times and rarely see GM models, sometimes you will see a 3500 chassis on a modular but they are rare. The only GM van style ambulances I have ever seen were some god awful green/yellow color and they were being exported to Europe.

...
GM also doesnt have a diesel van.
GM DOES have a diesel van. ):h

I talked to a great ambulance builder here in Houston, Frasier Ambulance.. They started off building crew modules for offshore and when the bust in in the 80's switched gears and put their machinery and staff to work building ambulance bodies... I happen to thing they are very good from two standpoints... First they are easy to work on and have really though out their systems. They use a generator to provide electricity to the box and use a great heating and a cooling system that is stand alone from the engine.... Our old wheeled coaches were the pits because of the electrical and a/c compressor dependency on the main engine... From a paramedic standpoint they are very easy to clean, stock and work in... Little things like the CPR seat being in the right position to perform chest compressions instead of NECK compressions! There is a difference :)

Anyway

Today I was informed that they can supply a duramax in a 3500 but the maximum box length is 12 foot and it has to have a airbag system for lowering the ride height for loading Patients... It's the standard duramax with the allison tyranny...

OR

They can supply the duramax in a new Van type chassis that has been redesigned with access ports for all engine work and a smother ride... This one can carry a larger payload than the 3500 but does NOT come with the allison... I wonder why and if GM's regular tyranny is any good...

Has anyone heard anything about the engines in these trucks catching on fire due to the high pressure fuel system?

We are exploring the use of a duramax lbz engine in an ambulance and this was one of the points brought up.. The maintenance manager told me that he was told that this engine is not used in ambulances because of the higher risk of fires....

Acadian Ambulance here in La. uses the Duramax exclusively in all their new units. Ford did have a problem with fires in the past but it was from overheating in the stearing column.

Boston EMS uses 4500 or 5500 trucks for ambulances

that's bs and now that gm has 450 & 550 competive chassis we will prob see more gm emergency equipment.

we run a f550 rescue/mini pumper w/a 7.3 it's a great rig. thank god we ordered before the 6.0 replaced it.

the f550 has a gvw of 17,500lbs and at the time there really weren't any other options. fords had the ems market locked up for years (ever since the 7.3 came out)

glad we'll got an option next time.

They have to buy the cheap stuff is why .

GM DOES have a diesel van. ):h


Is that something new ? last I heard they didnt. We dont run that type of rescue/ambulance so I dont keep up on it.

Look at these bad boys. http://www.station87.com/Apparatus/gallerya4.html

Is that something new ? last I heard they didnt. We dont run that type of rescue/ambulance so I dont keep up on it.
It's been on the work vans for several years. It's not available on the passenger van, and is not available on the Express with driver's side 60/40 swing-out doors.

Chevy does make a cutaway Express van with the 6.6D and TH tranny (2500HD and 3500 only).