I'm new to the board. I've been reading all these posts on the failed injectors and getting "scareder and scareder." Searching on this issue, it seems that it hits at random times - some brand new engines, some much older. Does anyone know if there is some census on this? What percentage of what age trucks are having the failures. I know companies like Gm are not always the best at owning up to their mistakes, but it would seem that if this is hugely widespread, it is time for an orderly blanket recall. I guess I may be dreaming - I still haven;t gotten my new tailgate cables.


Steve

Based on the posts I have read, the injectors usually fail with very low miles or over 70,000 miles. The General has extended the warranty to 7 years or 200,000 miles on the 01's and 02's. I consider that progress!!! Don't sweat the injectors an just enjoy the truck!

I have an 02, and am not really worrying. It sounds like luck of the draw.

I have an 02 with 70,000 miles with no injector issues.

I have an 01 with 63,000 and have had the edge for 50,000 of those miles set on 4. no problems yet. enjoy your rig

I have an '01 with over 80,000 miles and no injector issues.

I know companies like Gm are not always the best at owning up to their mistakes, but it would seem that if this is hugely widespread, it is time for an orderly blanket recall. I guess I may be dreaming - I still haven;t gotten my new tailgate cables.


Steve








Not really THEIR mistake but they have to live with it.


They replaced all 8 of mine last winter when it wouldnt start. One bad injector caused the problem.


I think GM is doing a GREAT job of owning up to it. They are having problems getting the replacements fast enough but I dont think it is GM's fault.


Replacing them at no cost, out of warranty, reimbursing those who already paid for them and extending the warranty to 7yr/200k miles. Score one for the General. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I won't dispute that GM is fixing the problem as it arrises, but I WILL dispute that it is not THEIR mistake. It does not matter to me that another company designed and manufactured the engine. When GM decided to use that engine and sell it to me in a truck with their name on it they were taking responsibility. You can darn well bet that if the engine performed flawlessly in 99.9% of the trucks for 200,000 miles they would take the credit. They also don't have their own steel mills, but we certainly expect their frames to be solid. What I want to find out is what percentage of vehicles is having this happen. So far all is annecdotal. I just don't want to be 2000 miles from home and have this happen. Of course any vehicle can experience a mechanical failure far from home. It is however my contention that if a large percentage of the vehicles is having this problem, then it should be addressed prospectively rather than retroactively. We just don't have the data to know how often this is happening.


Steve

I can vouch for the frames. Good quality. Heavy gauge tubing.
Who knows where the real problem is. Just hope for the best.

I thought the injectors were waranteed to 200K regardless of age?!?!?

For 2001 and 2002 model year trucks, the injectors can be replaced under certain failure conditions for up to 7 years and 200K miles.

For 2001 and 2002 model year trucks, the injectors can be replaced under certain failure conditions for up to 7 years and 200K miles.





What conditions?
Like fuel leaking into crankcase?

Had all 8 replaced 6 weeks ago @ about 69,000 mi. Massive fuel in the crankcase was the symptom. 5,000 mi later, everything seems fine. No fuel in oil so far.Edited by: Maxter

Had all 8 replaced 6 weeks ago @ about 69,000 mi. Massive fuel in the crankcase was the symptom. 5,000 mi later, everything seems fine. No fuel in oil until now.


"UNTILL NOW"?? Are you loosing another set?

arguy,


I believe they are looking for certain conditions on the injectors, specifically, high fuel flow return rate:


Q1: What is the condition that prompted a Special Policy?
A1: 2001-2002 model year Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra vehicles, equipped with a 6.6L Duramax diesel (RPO LB7) engine, may experience vehicle service engine soon (SES) light illumination, low engine power, hard start, and/or fuel in crankcase, requiring injector replacement, as a result of high fuel return flow rates due to fuel injector body cracks or ball seat erosion.


Q7: What is this special policy or warranty?
A7: The special policy is a 7-year/200,000 mile warranty on 2001 and 2002 MY Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickup trucks equipped with Duramax engines, covering the repairs of a high fuel return flow diagnosis


Read about it here:



http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9675&PN=2Edited by: OC_DMAX

Thanks OC_DMAX,


I thought as much. Seems like else is normal wear & tear. Mine is in for injectors with 149000 miles. I just bought it this wayhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif got to drive it 150 miles.

Does anyone know - are there any basic differences in the 03's to have GM NOT include them in the warrenty extension?

I think the injectors were a newer style, and GM felt it would correct the issue. Looks like this is not the case. I would expect the extended warranty to apply to 03's and 04's soon. At the rate things are happening.

Does anyone know - was this engine design used by Isuzu for any vehicles - unless they designed it fresh for GM (hard ot believe) it is amazing that there was not a history on this problem.

arguy:

Sorry, this how a French guy writes in English after a 600mi drive.

Should have said "so far" instead of "until now"

GM and Isuzu I believe designed and built this one from scratch (kinda) I bet it has more Isuzu than GM in it.
The real question is "where is the design flaw?" GM or Bosch.
Have there been any statements made by Bosch on the injector issue?
Example F#*d blamed Firestone for the Explorer roll overs. Firestone blamed F#*d.
F#*d blames Navistar for the 6.0 PSD fiasco. Navistar hasn't blamed F#*d, but said they would work with F#*d to correct the issues.

I'm curious. Maybe Bosch isn't the problem.

It is an interesting question, and I just wish we had some idea from GM what percentage of engines are having this problem. To read this board it looks like a huge percentage, but the population may be significantly skewed. (GM will certainly not like admitting it if the percentage is fairly high.)


Steve

It is an interesting question, and I just wish we had some idea from GM what percentage of engines are having this problem. To read this board it looks like a huge percentage, but the population may be significantly skewed. (GM will certainly not like admitting it if the percentage is fairly high.)


Steve








The people on the forum represent a very SMALL percentage of Duramax owners. I know of at least 3 Dmaxs (1-'02 and 2-'01's) all approaching the 100k mark, that have had NO problems with the injectors. .


The reason I have heard there are problems was due to Bosch who makes the injectors. Apparently the injectors used were built to handle European Diesel which is much cleaner than what we get here in the states, due in part to their higher usage in the European nations. I could be wrong but thats what I have heard.


As with all automotive forums, (I am an active member of 5) people will tend to tell tails of their woes more than "Hey my truck ran great today". Edited by: HD-Nate

arguy,


I believe they are looking for certain conditions on the injectors, specifically, high fuel flow return rate:


Q1: What is the condition that prompted a Special Policy?
A1: 2001-2002 model year Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra vehicles, equipped with a 6.6L Duramax diesel (RPO LB7) engine, may experience vehicle service engine soon (SES) light illumination, low engine power, hard start, and/or fuel in crankcase, requiring injector replacement, as a result of high fuel return flow rates due to fuel injector body cracks or ball seat erosion.


Q7: What is this special policy or warranty?
A7: The special policy is a 7-year/200,000 mile warranty on 2001 and 2002 MY Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickup trucks equipped with Duramax engines, covering the repairs of a high fuel return flow diagnosis


Read about it here:



http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9675&PN=2





I hate to say it guys, but fuel filtration and quality of fuel excuses do not cause the above. Poor design and quality does. These issues will continue to hound this engine. It is unforunate, because when they run well they are a good engine. If GM wishes to remain in the light diesel truck market, it had better do something and quickly, same for Ford and Navistar, Dodge and Mercedes.


We are the ones who pay a pretty price for these vehicles, to be told that there are no problems, we have fixed the problem that your not having and oh, by the way we can't fix the same problem that your not having again because we cannot get our supplier to fix the problem that he is not having, for the third time. By the way, we performed a major redesign of the engine after only two years on the market because we were not having any problems, and by the way the new problems are not problems, yet, because we don't have a fix for them, so they cannot be problems.


We have your money, so what are you going to do?


Watch out for the letters to be extended to 03 AND 04 units within 6 months. They will have no choice.

Local dealer here says 1 of every 3 he has sold at his dealership with the diesel has been back for injector work. That is 33%, way to high return for injector replacement in my opinion. Obviously there is a problem.

Steven:

Visiting a doctor's waiting room will not give a representative sample of the overall health of the community at large. Similarly, visiting a website such as this where people try to find answers to their truck problems does not give a representative picture of the experiences of the entire community of Duramax owners.

I think that the problems are a combination of design of the Bosch injector that did not take into account the often crappy quality of USA diesel fuel. Mercedes Benz held off on marketing diesel cars in the USA with a similar Bosch injection system because of concerns that the fuel available here was not of adequate quality.

Couple that with the fact that the LB7 engine was designed with the injectors hidden under the valve covers, so that it was a major job to change them, and injectors issues became a big deal.

Then add to that the fact that many at this website have "juiced" their engines to perform well above stock level.

In response to concerns about possible injector problems, I have installed 2 micron fuel pre-filtering, as per the "Nicktane" system discussed at this site, and also change the stock fuel filter as per recommended schedule. I also am careful where to buy fuel. Fresh fuel is usually clean fuel, so high volume locations where you see commercial large trucks fueling is a good bet.

Don't lose too much sleep over this.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

k1xv, I basically agree with your analysis. I am not losing sleep, but I am concerned. As I said above, the population of folks on this board is a skewed population. That having been said, Clark_Bailey has some scary figures from his dealer. I bought the GM truck and engine specifically because I wanted to stay away from the new powerstroke that seemed to have so many problems. I love the truck, and have had no problems at 10k miles. I do however mainly use the truck to haul a fifth wheel, and my family on vacations. Not too much I can do about it, but I really don't look forward to my injectors puking 1000 miles from home with my family stranded. Thanks guys for all the info. As my final comment, I would prefer GM and Isuzu and Bosch to find the problem, design new injectors and just replace every darn one, rather than waiting for that failure. Yup - I know I'm dreaming.
Steve

[QUOTE=Not too much I can do about it, but I really don't look forward to my injectors puking 1000 miles from home with my family stranded. [/QUOTE] That exact thing just happened to me last week.... We were returning from Colorado pulling my 28' camper and about 30 miles from Raton Pass my Service Engine Light came on, I lost power and the engine started coughing..... I stopped the truck and could find nothing major amiss under the hood. I was able to limp into the dealer located just before the New Mexico line on I25. There they pulled the codes and informed me that my injectors were clogged and it would be three weeks before they could fix it. They informed me it would probably be fine to drive it at reduced speed. Then sold me 52.00 worth of injector cleaner, reset the codes so I could climb the Pass and sent me on my way! I limped into Texas and in Herford noticed that I had ZERO oil pressure at Idle.... Never did a warning light tell me I had a problem! The Dealer was great in Herford. They changed the oil and filter , removed a massive amount of diesel for my crankcase and informed me it would be three weeks until they could repair my truck... and once again informed me it would be fine to drive the truck... (This I got in writing)


I made another 25 miles before noticing a mist of black oil starting to cover my camper. I pulled off the road and noticed that the oil pressure was once again ZERO at idle and a huge amount of black diesel was dripping on the ground and all over my camper.


A call to AAA resulted in a 4 hour wait for service, a 90 mile ride to Lubbock on the back of "Rocky The Wrecker Driver's" rig, ( My wife will never forgive me for making her sit next to Rocky) and a night sleeping in a hot camper on the side of the Dealers Lot. The next morning I rented a truck to continue the trip home and my truck was left for repairs.


Shammrock Chev , in Lubbock, took good care of me! 9 days later I drove the 1000 mile round trip from Houston to return the leased truck and pick up my repaired truck. Shammrock's service people were able sweet talk two other dealers into contributing 4 injectors each for the needed parts list and instread of waiting the 3 weeks it might have taken I was on the road in only 9.


Only problems I have now are the loud knock it makes when I start up in the morning and the reduced fuel economy :(


Good luck with yours....


01 2500 HD crew cab long bed. 73,000 miles when the injectors hurt my great engine :(


Steve

Oh boy - scary story. I'll just have to hope for the best! As I said, I just wish GM/Isuzu?Bosch could figure out the flaw, fix it, and start an orderly recall repair procedure. Then there might be a chance that fewer people will have ot go through what you did.

Steve

There is more than one injector failure mode. The high mileage failures may or may not be fuel quality related, but the low mileage failures is bad design and/or quality IMHO.

Swatkins; I'm afraid to ask, but what do you suspect is causing the knock? Main bearings?

There is more than one injector failure mode. The high mileage failures may or may not be fuel quality related, but the low mileage failures is bad design and/or quality IMHO.


Guys, the one thing everybody forgets is the dealerships openly stating and discussing these problems with everyone. How many times have any of us gone to a dealership prior to this and had them tell us how many vehicles of the type you own are in the back "graveyard" waiting for the SAME PARTS, some for the second or third time and it will be at least 4-6 weeks before the parts will be here? How many dealers openly discuss the issues (problems) with the transmission, egr, turbo, injectors, heads, etc. etc. Warranty claim percentages that are way, way out of line with norms. This is not normal dealer behaviour. Even the mechs, the good, honest ones will tell you when they button up the early engines after replacing injectors, you cross your fingers, pray and turn the key, because it's a 50-50 shot if the new injectors and line seals hold. The dealers DO NOT LIKE the Duramax/Allison, nor the interference and instruction by Isuzu on what repairs to make/not make on these engines. No matter how much we all wish we made the right choice and I count myself in this group (twice), the facts speak for themselves. Isuzu, with assistance from Bosch, designed the fuel system. Bosch, and its subcontracters, manufacture the fuel system. Bosch blaims Isuzu for not being able to design an injector correctly and Isuzu blaims Bosch for not manufacturing them correctly. GM is scared, period.


Oh, sorry, I forgot, the above cannot be correct, because there are no problems, only issues, GM, Isuzu and Bosch say so.

[QUOTE=Not too much I can do about it, but I really don't look forward to my injectors puking 1000 miles from home with my family stranded. That exact thing just happened to me last week.... We were returning from Colorado pulling my 28' camper and about 30 miles from Raton Pass my Service Engine Light came on, I lost power and the engine started coughing..... I stopped the truck and could find nothing major amiss under the hood. I was able to limp into the dealer located just before the New Mexico line on I25. There they pulled the codes and informed me that my injectors were clogged and it would be three weeks before they could fix it. They informed me it would probably be fine to drive it at reduced speed. Then sold me 52.00 worth of injector cleaner, reset the codes so I could climb the Pass and sent me on my way! I limped into Texas and in Herford noticed that I had ZERO oil pressure at Idle.... Never did a warning light tell me I had a problem! The Dealer was great in Herford. They changed the oil and filter , removed a massive amount of diesel for my crankcase and informed me it would be three weeks until they could repair my truck... and once again informed me it would be fine to drive the truck... (This I got in writing)


I made another 25 miles before noticing a mist of black oil starting to cover my camper. I pulled off the road and noticed that the oil pressure was once again ZERO at idle and a huge amount of black diesel was dripping on the ground and all over my camper.


A call to AAA resulted in a 4 hour wait for service, a 90 mile ride to Lubbock on the back of "Rocky The Wrecker Driver's" rig, ( My wife will never forgive me for making her sit next to Rocky) and a night sleeping in a hot camper on the side of the Dealers Lot. The next morning I rented a truck to continue the trip home and my truck was left for repairs.


Shammrock Chev , in Lubbock, took good care of me! 9 days later I drove the 1000 mile round trip from Houston to return the leased truck and pick up my repaired truck. Shammrock's service people were able sweet talk two other dealers into contributing 4 injectors each for the needed parts list and instread of waiting the 3 weeks it might have taken I was on the road in only 9.


Only problems I have now are the loud knock it makes when I start up in the morning and the reduced fuel economy :(


Good luck with yours....


01 2500 HD crew cab long bed. 73,000 miles when the injectors hurt my great engine :(


Steve








Isuzu will not allow the GM dealer to remove the oil pan to check the lower end: period. Their rationale is that diesel fuel is a "lubricant" and as such poses no threat to the lower end. We all know this is "bull". We have had it happen to our two trucks twice each within 89,000 on the 01 and 50,000 on the 03 (which has been parked since January after stranding our employees three times). Oil pressure is now down 10 psi at idle hot and 15 psi down at 2500 hot on both trucks. The 01 is going to have had three and a half sets of injectors the next go round when the new style become available. The 03 is still at two sets. When the engine runs it is a strong unit, unfortunately they do not appear to stay running good long.


[/QUOTE]

Guys, the one thing everybody forgets is the dealerships openly stating and discussing these problems with everyone. How many times have any of us gone to a dealership prior to this and had them tell us how many vehicles of the type you own are in the back "graveyard" waiting for the SAME PARTS, some for the second or third time and it will be at least 4-6 weeks before the parts will be here? How many dealers openly discuss the issues (problems) with the transmission, egr, turbo, injectors, heads, etc. etc. Warranty claim percentages that are way, way out of line with norms. This is not normal dealer behaviour. Even the mechs, the good, honest ones will tell you when they button up the early engines after replacing injectors, you cross your fingers, pray and turn the key, because it's a 50-50 shot if the new injectors and line seals hold. The dealers DO NOT LIKE the Duramax/Allison, nor the interference and instruction by Isuzu on what repairs to make/not make on these engines. No matter how much we all wish we made the right choice and I count myself in this group (twice), the facts speak for themselves. Isuzu, with assistance from Bosch, designed the fuel system. Bosch, and its subcontracters, manufacture the fuel system. Bosch blaims Isuzu for not being able to design an injector correctly and Isuzu blaims Bosch for not manufacturing them correctly. GM is scared, period.


Oh, sorry, I forgot, the above cannot be correct, because there are no problems, only issues, GM, Isuzu and Bosch say so.








Can you quote me the sources you used for the above statements??


My dealer, a GMC truck ONLY dealership has been very open and honest about the Duramax's. I may be one of the lucky ones here because of this.


There was one injector that went bad in mine, it would cause the fuel to bypass and not start. He replaced all 8 injectors in two days, gave me a loaner truck and changed my oil free of charge for the inconvenience. (there was no fuel in the oil either).


His statements were, they are having issues with "some" injectors, not all, some. He has not had a return on any injectors they have replaced. The injectors and the A/C problems are the only major things they see the Dmax's in their shop for.


Oh and he also stated the Isuzu has never been contacted for permisson to do a repair.


My source O.E. Burk, Service Manager, Westfall GMC


Edited by: HD-Nate

There seams to be many more 04 injector failures after one year then there were of 01`s or 02`s after just one year. It seams to me that the new improved injectors may not be as good as the injectors they are replacing.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Even the 03`s were worse the the 01`s and 02`s. The 02`s seam to be the best as of now.

My '02 obviously did not get the 'best of the bunch'.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


But as of right now, I cannot be happier with my new injectors. Truck is running great.

Does anyone know - was this engine design used by Isuzu for any vehicles - unless they designed it fresh for GM (hard ot believe) it is amazing that there was not a history on this problem.


The Duramax 6.6 and 7.8 litre engines where developed at Duramax Inc. This was a company formed by both GM and Isuzu. 50% 50% onwership to each. Since GM once owned Detroit Diesel and Isuzu has been building diesels for a long time I would not be too worried. The experience that they both have is imence and would probably rival giants like Cummins and Cat. The 6.6 only weighs 835 lbs which considering that a equally powerful Cat engine weighs in at 1200+ lbs the durability that the Dmax is showing (taking into account the power enhancers used) is quite good. Most fuel systems troubles stem from dirty fuel being the root cause.Edited by: AbsoluteGMC

192553 wrote: Even the mechs, the good, honest ones will tell you when they button up the early engines after replacing injectors, you cross your fingers, pray and turn the key, because it's a 50-50 shot if the new injectors and line seals hold.


I believe we have some good, honest techs on this forum. Do you guys (the techs on this forum) agree with the statement above? A 50-50 chance if the new injectors/seals hold? I have never heard this mentioned before.





192553 wrote: Bosch blaims Isuzu for not being able to design an injector correctly and Isuzu blaims Bosch for not manufacturing them correctly


192553, Please supply supporting data that shows Isuzu designed the injectors. I really doubt that statement. Isuzu most likely gave Bosch an envelope (or interface spec) to design the injector around. Isuzu designed the aluminum cylinder head. The head interfaces with the injectors. Bosch expertise is fuel injection systems. Bosch designed the whole system (and that is my opinion). I have a text book that I bought from the SAE that was written by the Bosch company. This book shows design information specifically about the HPCR Fuel injection system in our trucks. There is detail on the injector design. Bosch designed the HP Fuel pump, the Fuel Injection Control Module electronics, the injectors ect. This fuel injection system is controled by the ECM (engine control module) that General Motors programmed.Edited by: OC_DMAX

I never exected my injectors to last forever. I am grateful the General has me covered for 100,000 miles. 200,000 miles if you are an 01,02 year.


The problem is that when there is a failure a few people get the runaround. They are told that there are no injectors in stock and that it is okay to continue driving your truck. The period between the initial diagnosis and final resolve is not acceptable. Also having repeat failures is concerning as well.


If the trucks were diagnosed and repaired within 2-3 days, I do not think this would be a big issue. A loaner truck would be a stipulation as well. Most people that have trucks are either towing or working with them and cannot afford the down time.


The engine damage that occurs to some of the trucks from driving them after the fact is just plain stupidity. I would never drive my truck if it is in a state of dis-repair. As a matter of fact my aftermarket extended warranty will be void if I get caught driving the truck while it is broke.


I can not believe GM advocates driving a truck with injector problems. The emessions has to be a violation of the EPA. Not to mention the oil and fuel that leaks all over our beutiful country. Next time GM rights on paper for you to keep driving your truck, take it to the nearest stream crossing or boat ramp. Be sure to call the local T.V. station and the EPA. 1.0 OZ. of diesel fuel will contaminate 10,000 gallons of water!Edited by: Bronco

Come on guys, its obvious the all mighty dollar is at the root of the injector problem. Just like 5th gear in the allison, GM cut corners!!


I still think they are the best trucks out there and I plan on buying a 2005 when they come out. 1 of my 2001's has 160,000 of the hardest miles I could put on it ,with stacked chips and towing, and the only thing changed until here recently was the injectors! No alignment, no brake pads, no shocks, no ball joints, NOTHING!! Try that with a Dodge or a Ford!


I did however finally blow a head gasket the other day. Not bad for 160,000 miles at 14.26!

Come on guys, its obvious the all mighty dollar is at the root of the injector problem. Just like 5th gear in the allison, GM cut corners!!





Whats wrong with the 5th gear in an Allison with a stock Dmax infront of it?Edited by: Bronco

Whats wrong with the 5th gear in an Allison with a stock Dmax infront of it?


On the new LLY 6.6L Duramax Diesel engine the power is reduced back to 300 hp and 520 ft lb torque in both 1st and 5th gears. I believe that is what he was referring too.

The Allison 5th gear is weak compared to the rest of the transmission. Crank the power up and watch it slip. Thats why the computer monitors it so close. When GM upped the power on the LLY there was nothing done to help the transmission. I have not been able to find anything official about backing down the power in 5th gear. I do believe first gear is down on power, but I think it is to protect the axles.

When injectors fail, how are they failing? Sticking open, or ball seat erosion?
If they are sticking open, what kinds of things would cause it?
Lubrication
Return flow for cooling (I think this happens)
High fuel pressure
Something getting stuck in an injector (causing it to stick open)

It would be interesting for people who have had their injector fail, report back on what their repairing dealer says. If they say anything at all.
I'm interested in hearing some accurate (if possible) information about injector failures. See if we here at THE PLACE can come up with some good ideas. Everybody has an opinion about failures, but no real ideas.

When injectors fail, how are they failing? Sticking open, or ball seat erosion?
If they are sticking open, what kinds of things would cause it?
Lubrication
Return flow for cooling (I think this happens)
High fuel pressure
Something getting stuck in an injector (causing it to stick open)

It would be interesting for people who have had their injector fail, report back on what their repairing dealer says. If they say anything at all.
I'm interested in hearing some accurate (if possible) information about injector failures. See if we here at THE PLACE can come up with some good ideas. Everybody has an opinion about failures, but no real ideas.


FWIW, a master tech at the local GMC shop says its cracked bodies. His experience is contrary to the earlier comment re unclean fuel being the culprit. He liked the nicktane when he saw it but unclean fuel cracking injector bodies?

"CUSTOMER STATES HAS LONG CRANK IN AM WHEN COLD FOUND #5 INJECTOR NOT SEALING CAUSING FUEL BLEED DOWN AND WHITE SMOKE IN AM


REPLACE ALL INJECTORS PER BILLITEN #04-06-04-007A"


Thats what is on my repair order. (And yes, I know how to spell bulletin!)


Hope this helps.

ShumDit wrote: "He liked the nicktane when he saw it but unclean fuel cracking injector bodies?"


Actually, by reading the bulletin GM sent the 2001-2002 truck owners, GM addressed cracked injector bodies AND ball seat erosion as possible failure mechanisms. Ball seat erosion can be attributed to running dirty fuel over an extended period of time. So don't go throwing away your supplemental filters just yet.

The local tech commented he hasn't see erosion issues yet ~ but dirty fuel is within our ability to control if the fuel and automotive manufacture industries fail to respond. Many have already added additional filtration to do just that ~ but cracked injector bodies? Sounds out of our hands right now. I'm happy GM is stepping up albeit reluctantly to the plate (probably @ Bosche expense)

Its unlikely the tech would recognize any sort of erosion problems. He would need to take apart the injector and examine the parts under a microscope. I have heard that the cracked injector bodies are small hail line cracks. Not sure how the tech is determining this either. Maybe our techs here could comment.


The point being you need to do what is within your control. Supplemental filtration and fuel additives all help. The rest of it like cracked injector bodies is nothing more than either a design or manufacturing process flaw. Out of anyones ability to influence this, so just hope for the best.


My personal opinion is GM is only PARTIALLY stepping up to the plate. If they were behind this 100%, they would just replace all the defective parts. If that is beyond their means, then warranty the parts to 200K miles. And before anyone says they have done that, they have not. There is a 7 year time limit also. So for those of you who only put 10k miles per year on your trucks, your injectors are only warrantied to 70K miles. This is not making a committment and standing behind their design. Sad.Edited by: OC_DMAX

Now what is causing the cracks?

High fuel system pressure?
Poor quality metal?
Heat? (contraction/expansion, friction)

I really don't understand how an injector works. I have heard they can stick open. I haven't found a good explantion of how one works, or a good schematic.

UPDATE!

I took my truck to the dealer I purchased it from, here in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Houston</st1:place></st1:City>. It has been 3000 miles since it was driven 300 miles with fuel in the crank and all the injectors replaced.

I told the service rep that I had 7 issues and GM gave me a loaner truck so they could check it out.
1. Lost 4 mpg when pulling a load.
2. Truck has used 1 qt of oil in 3000 miles. This is the FISRT time I have ever had to add oil between changes. The oil always was a very light color and hard to see on the dip stick before the fuel in the crank. Now it is turning black after 3000 miles.
3. I have lost 10 psi in oil presure at idle.
4. Loss of power when pulling a load.
5. Twice after a 30 minute drive I have had huge clouds of black, then white, smoke pour out the exhaust.
6. A new Knock in the engine. Even louder in the morning after sitting overnight.
7. After the repairs, in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Lubbock</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">Texas,</st1:State></st1:place> whenever I place the A/C on high speed, outside air, then accelerate the door that directs outside air into the a/c closes so that the air is recirculated. When I let up off the gas the door opens again. Never did it before the repairs!

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Gadzooks Batman. Wonder why they couldn't find the issues on their own?

I use Howes Lubricator at every fill just to make sure that the fuel system is adequately lubricated. I wonder if the low sulfur in todays fuel could be a possible culprit?