Looking into new (to me) trucks. I can’t quite swing a new one, and the barely used are going form more then the invoice on the brand new ones.


So that puts me to an 02 or 03 LB7. Little concerned about the injector problems I have read on this sight and others, and worry about owning a problem truck with little to now warranty left (I have had a bum truck before, it's no fun)


So what can I look for, aside from pulling the service history before I own it, are there any tricks, or any years that are better then others?





or should I wait for a deal on an 04.5?





Please advise.





EM

What is your price range? You should be able to get an 04 brand new for close to 30,000. Depending on options etc. Add 0% financing on that for 5 years and you will have a hard time getting an 02 or 03 for that. JMO.





Other then that, It wouldn't scare me at all buying a used one. Motor warranty until 100,000 IIRC plus the trannies are getting cheaper to rebuild and beef up every day. Other then that, not much to worry about. I'd try to find one that has never been chipped so that you don't have to worry about tranmission problems in the future. Edited by: Max Power

I got my 02 2 months ago and have never regretted getting it. I had an 02 gasser but switching to the dmax was the only way to go. I to had reservations about used but now I have none. The injectors are covered for 7yr/200k. Mine was not chipped so I did feel comfortable with getting one with 70k miles on it. Everyone is different and I did my research prior to purchase. You are on this site so do your research here and GOOD luck.


Ben http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif

It would scare me worse to buy an LLY that is not proven. LB7 is a proven engine. It has a decent track record. Manufactures are quick to sale new equipment and let the customer work out the bugs. I bought a 2004 with a LB7 engine just because I know how companies operate.

Dont worry, just do your research and take your time...rushing into any purchase will cause issues. I lurked for a year, researching and waiting for the price points to drop to a level I felt I could tackle. I got real lucky and found an 03 that fit my wishes and could sell it today and make a buck. U can always buy an extended warranty for parts covered by the 100k mile warranty for engine. Do a search of the forums as these questions get asked alot, what you'll read is usually not the norm for these trucks as the demographic for forums is normally "intro to diesel 101" questions" or "how to hot rod your truck for under $5k" or " I left my chip turned to high when my kid drove it up a mountain and melted...." kinda questions. Time to time things such as injectors and other real issues pop up. Main thing is be aware of these issues, run the VIN at a dealership for a report and buy what you like.


As for pricing (assuming u want a decked out cc d/a) - 01 & 02 are usually under 30k, 03 if your lucky and know someone u might swing one for $30k but dont count on it more like $33k to 35, 04 or 05 - $34k to 37. I saw that two 03s with under 20k miles and medium trim levels went for over $33k at auction so that tells me, market in my area is still tight.


If u want something else in configuration, pricing drops a bit for ext cab in some markets although trade-in values them both the same go figure. If your not gonna keep this truck more than a couple years...buy a gasser - save ya 5k and/or a couple hundred a month in payments http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


good luck

I would not worry about the chip if it's a juice. I have 160,000 miles on my 01 with nothing ever changed but injectorsand I put the juice on at 30,000 miles. I personaly think the 01 and 02's were the best. My 03 does not run quite as good, and my 04.5 sucks. My mechanic says the 03 had about 1/2 of the emision changes needed for 04, and thats why they are getting worse. I think the 05 will be better.

It would scare me worse to buy an LLY that is not proven. LB7 is a proven engine. It has a decent track record. Manufactures are quick to sale new equipment and let the customer work out the bugs. I bought a 2004 with a LB7 engine just because I know how companies operate.


I'll ditto that... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

If your not gonna keep this truck more than a couple years...buy a gasser - save ya 5k and/or a couple hundred a month in payments http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif





This is somewhat true. Keep in mind though, you buy it now for 5K more but in a year or two, you sell it for 5K more. Net effect is you have diesel power and efficiency while you own it.

I wouldnt worry about the 02-03. Besides, didnt they just give everyone in that time frame a long warranty on the injectors specifically?

If your not gonna keep this truck more than a couple years...buy a gasser - save ya 5k and/or a couple hundred a month in payments http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif





This is somewhat true. Keep in mind though, you buy it now for 5K more but in a year or two, you sell it for 5K more. Net effect is you have diesel power and efficiency while you own it.





understood by us on the forum but not by the everyday buyer thus the reasoning behind price points...duramax so far doesnt fit the standard resale model as it still receives a premium even after four years...that doesnt mean buyers understand. Usually they have to be enlighted by forums or research.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I have an 02 stock with 48,000 miles Just got back form a 5300 + mile trip form Ms to Oregon and Washington St. pulling a 36' Country Star. Did not have any trouble at all. The Durmax/Allison preformed great in the mountains and flat land. Very satisfied with my truck. I would not hesitate to buy a used one after checking it out.

I aswell have an 02. Built Sept 01. NO issues yet. 77,000 KMS. Stock, except for exhaust. My concern would be a truck that has been towing (heavy) or hopped up a bit.

If you look through the injector problem threads, you will notice that a large percentage of the post are coming from people with very few post. Meaning that they are coming here looking for help after the fact. There are many problems, but it looks worse then it really is because of that.


I know more then 30 duramax owners, and not one single injector problem. And that is with a combined mileage of a couple million miles.


On edit: I'd bet it is closer too 3 or even 4 million miles. 65,600 of those miles are mine.Edited by: hdmax

I don’t think anyone, outside of a few insiders at GM, knows how many trucks have had injector problems or can accurately predict how many will have problems in the future. The number must be significant and growing for GM to be proactive about the problem and offer the extended warranty. The extended warranty is an excellent weapon to fend off negative publicity about problems with the Duramax engine and I applaud them for it. I know three persons, including my self with the Dmax – Allison combo and one has had all eight injectors replaced. Now I don’t think that it would be statistically valid for me to say that a third of all Dmax diesels will have injector problems. But it makes me think that there are many more than a small number of owners that come to sites like this one looking for answers.

Just because the one guy you know had all 8 injectors replaced doesn't mean they were all bad. Maybe just one was bad. (Then that would be 1 out of 24 or less then 5%http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif )


Gm replaces all 8 if they have to open er up to replace any at all.

According to my mechanic they replace 4 at a time. The drivers side if it has at least one bad, or the passengers side if it has at least 1 bad. He says to get all 8 you have to have at least 1 bad one on each side.


Also I have had 4 Duramax trucks. The 04 was diagnosed with 3 bad ones at 25,000 miles, still waiting for the replacements, one of the 01's needed injectors at 103,000, and the other had them changed at 125,000. My 03 has 26,000 on it without the need. Also the rumor is they can not make them as fast as they are going bad. They are getting orders for aprox. 30,000 injectors a day. I think its safe to say;


"It's not if, IT'S WHEN!" Edited by: RickDLance

If the injectors are on national back order, there must be allot of failures. Or Bosch is hand making each one to custom speck.

LB7 It's the Business!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer I think I see a pattern with these injector failures. Most (not all) have chipped there motors in some way. Almost all problems are with trucks that have been modified. I think that if the injectors are a ...weak link... then more pressure etc. etc. will make a lot more fail then would have if left alone. I dont know just my to .02

Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer I think I see a pattern with these injector failures. Most (not all) have chipped there motors in some way. Almost all problems are with trucks that have been modified. I think that if the injectors are a ...weak link... then more pressure etc. etc. will make a lot more fail then would have if left alone. I dont know just my to .02


2 out of 3 of my bad injector experiances have been on stock untouched trucks. Face it , they are just bad parts!


Don't get me wrong, I still think they are the best trucks out there. I just hope they survive the bad publicity, and GM finds the right parts to make the truck the best in the feild.Edited by: RickDLance

If the injectors are on national back order, there must be allot of failures. Or Bosch is hand making each one to custom speck. Didn't they just move the production to Latin America? Maybe they are having start up problems.

I agree with Bruce. Read the threads and look at the signatures. The only one in may area that I know that has had injector problems is chipped.

Maybe a poll should be started?

Also the rumor is they can not make them as fast as they are going bad. They are getting orders for aprox. 30,000 injectors a day. I think its safe to say;


"It's not if, IT'S WHEN!"





30,000 injectors a day. Let me see. that is 30,000 X 5 =150,000 per week. 150,000 per week x 5 weeks in a month. That is 750,000 per month. 8 injectors per truck 750,000/8 = 93,750 trucks per month.


First of all GM does not even manufacture 93,750 Duramax diesel per month and secondly if those were all for warranty/repair every single service bay in Americca would be plum full of GM Duramax's.


I went buy truck city just yesterday and the only thing in there garage was 3 motor homes getting summer tune ups. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Obviously every Duramax in the world will need there injectors replaced eventually, but do not let paranoia take the fun out of it in the mean time.

Also the rumor is they can not make them as fast as they are going bad. They are getting orders for aprox. 30,000 injectors a day. I think its safe to say;


"It's not if, IT'S WHEN!"





30,000 injectors a day. Let me see. that is 30,000 X 5 =150,000 per week. 150,000 per week x 5 weeks in a month. That is 750,000 per month. 8 injectors per truck 750,000/8 = 93,750 trucks per month.


First of all GM does not even manufacture 93,750 Duramax diesel per month and secondly if those were all for warranty/repair every single service bay in Americca would be plum full of GM Duramax's.


I went buy truck city just yesterday and the only thing in there garage was 3 motor homes getting summer tune ups. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Obviously every Duramax in the world will need there injectors replaced eventually, but do not let paranoia take the fun out of it in the mean time.





Your math may be good, but don't forget Bosch makes injectors for aprox. 10 differant diesel engines alone, and what about all the gas engines they make injectors for. You do not have to defend the Duramax to me. I have 3 now and am going to buy another, I just wish they would fix the obvious black eye on an otherwise stellar truck!

Getting orders and filling them are two different things.


So much for the chipped theory. Mac has run everything under the sun on his truck, and has one of the first ones off the line. There are no injectors replaced on his truck that I'm aware of. Mine at nearly 66,000 miles and I have run enhancements from the first 1000 miles I drove it. Propane, Juice, Predator, Powermax, and 2 versions of the Stealth. So far no injectors.


Look how many new (less then 10,000 miles) trucks with no power enhancements what so ever that have bit the injector bug. Hoot had propane and juice, (at last he run them together) and 77,000 miles no injectors. How about mtomac; getting close to 90,000 miles and once again no injector problems. Now that is a truck that if a truck should have needed them due to power enhancements would be on the 10th set by now.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Is the picture clear on your end?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I agree. I don't think power enhancers cause injector failure.

I think there is a major design/fabrication problem that they can't seem to iron out without a major redesign of the injector.

If that's not the case than some brain dead body in charge is creating an awful lot of grief out there and is getting paid a huge salary to roll part numbers.Edited by: hoot

I prefer the LB7 at present time.


Injectors have failed on LLY as well. Big key is that they are WARRANTED.


National BO means they are moving a lot, BUT there are also a lot of them being changed that aren't really bad...





Current rebates/incentives and high value on used trucks makes it tough to pass up on a new one...

Figures about the power enhancers. I started up a new thread hoping to get some sort of idea.

I prefer the LB7 at present time.


Injectors have failed on LLY as well. Big key is that they are WARRANTED.


National BO means they are moving a lot, BUT there are also a lot of them being changed that aren't really bad...


Not sure if the national BO means they are moving a lot. Could just mean that with the recent TSB to change all 8 if one is bad and a limited production keeps the supply tight ... I don't imagine that Bosh is allocating a major production percentage to the LB7 injectors.

And yes, changing all 8 if one is bad would be changing a lot of good ones. This indicates to me that the General was seeing lots of repeat business when changing onesy-twoesy. Change them all and purge the bad ones before they fail.

Jim

Molle Chevrolet told me today the new policy is to change all 8 no matter what. Also they got in a couple of shipments of them in, so we may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Still no replacements for my LLY.

I have had all injectors replaced and need a flywheel for the 6 speed. This is a major issue for those of us who own Manuals. Stick with the Allison. I have had 5 flywheels repalced andd need another one. Now my oil pressure is reduced after the injectors flooded the crankcase with Diesel. I am thinking of trading with 75,000 very easy miles.