Hey guys. I live in Tucson, Arizona and about three weeks ago, I installed my Edge/Attitude ( God I love it ) and I have been noticing my tranny temp around 200 to 226. Its been hot with high humidity and I'm also running 315/75/16. Should I be concerned with the temp? I've read that a deeper pan could help. I've read synthetic trann oil. I've also read about upgrading tranny. Lots of great info, but everything costs money and my pockets are not that deep. If any one can give me some info, it would be appreciated. Also why are people upgrtading their tranny before its reaaly needed? Thanks Guys for your help.

TucsonDMX


Start with synthetic fluid, it has a much higher boiling point which means it takes much longer to break its efficiency. My first choice is Mobil 1, second choice is Amsoil Dexron/Mercon replacement ( this one might be the best of the bunch, not sure) third, Transynd or its Amsoil clone. I don't like the latter 2 because Transynd was designed for heat, which is good, I don't think they took into consideration the high clamping force the Allison needs under extreme duress. Amsoils clone is about the same. Remember the Allison clutches were designed to use Dexron 111; yes Dexron 111 boils much lower, yes, Dexron 111 jells at - 25 deg. Synthetic Dexron 111 ( Mobil 1 or Amsoil) won't do that. I also think ( I have no proof) that Transynd and its Amsoil clone may be able to set slip codes under high horsepower. These are strictly my opinions. I just thought I would share them.


mike


mike

In all honesty I believe your giving Transynd a bad rap.Transynd is the proffered hydraulic fluid for the Allison.


Allison won't even acknowledge a ext warranty on their transmissions in service unless it is filled with Transynd,unless this has changed.


The Allison 1000 has a GVW of 26,000 LBS I'm thinking clutches have to be grabbing pretty good to get that rolling and not to say the ratings on the 2000 2400 series too.


I'm positive Transynd has the proper friction additives in it's fluid.


Have any proof of direct failure of Allison clutches running their preffered fluid??


Mac

Mac


I gave a personal opinion not a recomendation. I stated I had no proof, just an educated hunch. In no way did I try to give Transynd a bad rap.I think it is a very fine fluid. I also think they came in as the lowest bidder for Allison; I have no proof of that either. Transynd also begins to get a yellow tinge to its color like the older Castrol Syntech atf. Could it be the same thing at a double price? The only independant test I have heard about was from Transgo where they did a boil test on fluid and a freeze test. Amsoil Dexron/mercon replacement took more heat to boil, and Transynd was second with Mobil 1 third. I would not call that a conclusive test at all, just interesting.


mike

Are the larger tires contributing to the additional trans heat also? Do I go with a larger pan? Is Transynd a GM product? Thanks guys.

I don't believe the larger tires contribute to heat. It's always better with a larger pan although I have not seen any diffirence in cooler temps. I run a PML pan and like having the extra fluid. Transynd is made by Castrol for Allison when an extended drivetrain warranty is sold.


mikeEdited by: Mike L.

I believe that there has been experience with people slipping thier tranys with added HP running the regular replacemnt universal amsoil. IIRC this wasnt experience before the switch and it went away after the got it out and went to something else. The clone stuff is supposed to address this I think. I also havent heard of anyone thinking the transyd made thier trany more prone to slipping, have heard of it turning funky colors but thats it. Havent heard of anyone saying the mobil 1 made thier trany more prone to slippage. This is all second hand info and just what I recall being said.


I did buy mobil 1 to put into my trany for the rebuild FYI. Dont make it right or wrong but I will soon have experience with syn atf in a allison but it wont be apples to apples since the trany wont be stock.


I have had experience with larger tires creating added strain on a trany and it building more heat and actually nuking a 700 but I dont think it will matter much to an allison, this was with weaker tranys with no protection features. It may make it a bit hotter in stop/go driving but once you are rolling the tires wont make much difference to an alli IMO


Deep pan made 0 difference in final trany temp, it just slows the rise but also slows the cool down. A good investment though IMO

Oh.....yes I would be concerend about that temp and i would be atleast draining the pan and replacing the fluid regularly. Switching to a syn fluid would be a good idea. Different coolers or air scoops would be what I would be doing also. but I would also make sure my guage was reading right so i wasnt chasing a problem that wasnt there.

All of this could be tested with the Allison DOC program the same way you test different clutch manufacturers products. Problem is you would have to change clutches because a clutch presoaked in one fluid will not necessarily react properly using another fluid for this test.


mike

TucsonDMX


I also live in the area and have Transynd , 265x75 Mich, small air deflector and pull a 12k fiver . I don't recall ever getting close to the temps you are seeing.


aztjc

aztjc,


Do you know of any deisel or tranny place in Tucson that can check this out for me. Guy's thank you for your friendship and your honesty.

TucsonDMX

I live in Tucson as well. I dumped Transynd in it (simple drain plug/filter change) at about 7000 miles. What a freakin' difference in the temps. I, too, was running about 225 before the swap; Now, I never go above 200 (even when pulling a 8000pound trailer down grant @105degrees).

There is a place off I-10 and Glenn (W.W. Williams Southwest Inc.) that sells the stuff. Like $30/gallon. They are very knowledgeable. I am trying to get them to start installing aftermarket shift kits. A completely untapped market in Tucson....

Anyway, swap out the fluid and see what she runs.

Greg

Hi Guys,


I live in PHX and have been driving down to Tucson to install things on my truck with a friend there.


Is anyone interested in meeting ?


I'll by putting in Transynd also this weekend.Good to hear that the temps will drop.


Has anyone had any problems with coolant getting warm? I pulled a 10000 # fifth wheel up to near Flagstaff last weekend, and temp went up to 235 on the long hills. It did cool down as soon as level, but have read others here that their temps never increase. Stock eng and tranny.(for now) Just bought Juice/Attitude. Do you think that will have any effect on temps?


2004 D/A, CC, SB, 4x4


Thanks, Bill

Bill, it was nice to meet you this weekend. Just curious if you will be flipping those overloads and your opinion after.





Mike L


I am from Phoenix, also, roads were 115 yesterday. I have been following and applaud your cooler project.. I thought I would chime in here after KTDuramax and I had a chance to talk about the LLY cooling problems, as many know, it has a tougher time staying cool, especially pulling up our steep hills in the summer. And we are talking engine overheating. GM has no solutions for these people.


I am all for doing what you are doing, but it came to mind that, putting another more efficient trans cooler in the stack, inplace of the existing, would cool the trans better, but do so to the detriment of engine cooling, AC efficiency, and worsten the already irritating fan clutch engagement. Of course it probably makes sense for the LB7, which has much worse tranny temps than the LLY. So your project is needed for the LB7, just not what the LLY needs IMO.


Do you have any thoughts (for the LLY) of putting a second cooler first in line, near the tranny (somewhere other than the already overutilized stack location, too much heat transfer there already)? Would the existing hydraulic pressure handle the extra plumbing of a second cooler?


If some of the tranny heat transfer can occur away from the stack, i would think many folks would love their truck more in the summer in the desert.

I put the deep Allison pan and pickup on about 20,000 miles after experiencing a slight increase in trans temp when towing heavy in hot weather (got up to about 215). Change fluid about every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Have towed heavier (try 33,000 lbs GCVW in 103 degree outside temp over the Grapevine in So Cal) and trans temps have never gone over 200 degrees. Normal driving temps dropped from about 185 to 190 degrees to 150 to 160 degrees. Deep pan and transynd made a lot of difference. Now has 72,000 miles and tranny is just like new. (I do not have any power enhancements)

Mike L


Good to meet you, also. I will probbably flip the overloads, as you suggested, but not right away. We are leaving for the Northwest for vacation around Aug 17th, and will be gone for about a month. That is why I'm happy to get the Juice and try it before we leave. Just not sure if I'll have time before we leave.


Taking the truck in today to dealer for some minor work.I'll ask why my coolant temp goes to 235, and some others do not.


Bill

I would watch a cooler in a "different" part of the truck... If you are thinking on the underside, you will have to watch the salt/gravel/crap buildup and impingement on the cooler. Sure you can protect it, but be prepared to be creative. Also on the underside of the vehicle, you may actually add heat to the fluid. Hot roads in the summer run ~180-190, and the underside of the vehicle is not the coolest due to the heat rolling backwards. You also have a exhaust that is running ~600 near the tranny while pulling.


If I was looking for a place, I would look to in front of the wheels. You could duct some air from the foglight/front dam area to it. It is out of the rad/intercooler/condenser stack, so it may be good.


BTW, I have not seen temps that high in the pulling I have done through the high temps. I usually run ~17K, and have not seen engine temp or tranny temp go over the 200 mark. Check my sig for my configuration.


HTH.

You could duct some air from the foglight/front dam area to it. It is out of the rad/intercooler/condenser stack, so it may be good.





This is the focus of my attention now, removing the existing cooler in front of the stack, and remove all that bracketry that is also interfereing with air flow.


Get an 8x12x1.5" cooler with twice the cooling capacity and put it down low, right behind the air dam scoop. Much of the heat will go under the truck. If I can get cooler lines that I can just connect to the existing ones behind the grill, then I can always return to stock. Or cut the existing lines at the rubber location behind the bumber. Then the new line wouldn't loop up in front of the consenser.


I would love the extra AC efficiency, and hopefully a less utilized noisy fan, and hope for cooler trans temps.


Can someone recommend a quality brand of cooler?Edited by: masterp2

If you are successful please let us know. It would be nice to get more cold air through the intercooler, but only if the trans temps don't go up as a result. Edited by: Amric

exactly,

Can anyone point to the specs of the existing cooler? Looks like about 55 sq in. Any more information? Does it have a cold temp bypass?

Great minds think alike...


As for the brand, I have done a ton of work with Long. They are a large OEM supplier. As for good, your guess is as good as mine. I would go with something stout. You will get the best cooling from a copper line, aluminum fin style, but they are not the most durable.


As for the spec on the OEM cooler, if you have a part number I can try to find a drawing. It may have some info... I doubt it has any type of cold temp bypass.

THANKS nassdmax


Anybody see a problem with going with a cooler that has 3-4x the present BTU transfer capability, without a cold temp bypass? (can it be too effective?)

You will never be able to cool it below air temps. The only detriment will be during the winter months... Efficient trans temperature is ~150, so we better be prepared to bypass it back to the stock location, or have a winter cover for it.


Actually that may be the ticket... Have a bypass loop to divert all flow to the efficient cooler for the summer, and switch back to the "winter" cooler when it get's chilly outside. You guys out in the warm states probably don't have to worry, but we do... All it would be is to swing some ball valves and creative plumbing.


Thought starter... Any stainless coolers? Horrible heat transfer, good longevity.

My truck has a air dam scoop cover, that will need to be removed. Don't know why you can't just pop it back in during the winter when you want to reduce heat transfer. If that is too warm, just put some holes in it.


I took another look in that area, and it is looking very promising. The natural construction of the front end will divert the heated air under the truck, so it doesn't load up the stack. A 30-40K BTU cooler about 8x22x1.5 would fill this area. The scoop area is only 60 sq in, but it funnels from 90, so air flow would be very good when moving, but that size cooler would be underutilized. Still it would provide 2-3 times the cooling capacity of the stock 55 sq incher, when moving. the big question is stop and go, since the fan won't help the new location much. Will natural convection of the oversized cooler be enough? I'd guess probably for the LLY, not sure about the LB7. But for towing up big hills in the heat, this makes sense to me in either engine.

Any of you Tucson folks get together count me in. I'd love to take a ride and see the EDGE/Attidue. Been wondering if I should start saving up for one. My 04 D/A pulls just fine but if I can tune 'er up a wee bit why not.


Also for what it's worth I'm not seeing any numbers like that pulling my tailer to from Tucson to Flagstaff in 100+. I got 285's all else being stock. What I do need is an EG gauge though.


cmc

Moisture and wind enable things to be cooled below the air temp. Of course we don't get to complain about that much in AZ.

Uuuuuh, no. Unless you are talking about your sweating skin. Are you volunteering to let us run tranny oil through your veins?

Tuscon,


I am moving to your location this December. I am in the USAF, this will be my last assignment, and I will probably retire in the Tucson area.


Dude, it is not humid in Tucson. It is about twice your humidity here in San Antonio, and I can't wait to get out of it! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Tucson seems to run about the same temps (to a touch higher) as San Antiono, but at half the humidity.


I have 295s, a 4" lift, and run the Attitude, and even in the heat and humidity here I do not have a tranny temp problem. My tranny tends to run cool. However, I havn't towed yet...........


Blaine

masterp,


You think the chill factor is exclusive to sweating skin? You better get out of the house more dad.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


My comment was in response to the previous comment that there was "no way to cool something lower than air temperature." Fact is there are several ways. Edited by: Ray403Dmax

To answer your question: No. Ray403Dmax, I just assumed you were trying to get on to something relevant to this thread.


I get out enough, SON, Go study wet bulb and dry bulb temperature aspects , teach a thermo or heat transfer class and get back to me on the adiabatic evap. schedules of your swamp cooler. Unless you have a plan to water inject your cooling stack, through adiabatic water expansion on the duramax rustbucket, should we continue this discussion?Edited by: masterp2

AFP1,





How come you always show up when I am getting pissed off?

Ray403,


It isn't likely that with the kind of setup most people would be willing to run, you could do what you are eluding to. Your skin gets cooler than ambient because you give up the latent heat of vaporization of water to the atmosphere, a lot of energy. If the cooler is hotter than ambient temperature, it won't accumulate condensation, and therefore you won't be able to give up that latent heat of vaporization to cool it below ambient. You would have to spray it with a fluid that evaporates, (which is what I was saying about most not wanting to do that). I think Michael is just trying to improve on the stock cooler setup without having to get fancy with a spray setup and all the extra crap that goes along with it.


Dennis

aztjc,


Do you know of any deisel or tranny place in Tucson that can check this out for me. Guy's thank you for your friendship and your honesty.








Chuck Hawk Automotive. Seem to be pretty decent people there.