I installed a new IP, hooked up a scanner, and my DES/ACT timing was +8.7.

Does this value represent the position of the newly installed IP, or is it a stored value from the position of the old IP?

I think I found my answer in one of gmctd's old posts... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=964704&postcount=25

Looks like the +8.7 BTDC setting is left over from the position of the old pump, and a TIMESET funtion needs to be executed to update the setting based on the position of the new pump.

Is that right?

Did all the big gear heads take Friday off, or what?

My truck is in the shop getting the timing adjusted. I left them the following instructions.

These are the ranges I want the new timing parameters to fall into:

PARAMETER RANGE

DES/ACT ==> +8.3 to +8.7

TDCO ====> -1.5 to -1.94


STEPS:

1. Get engine to operating temp (180deg). Establish communication between scanner and vehicle. Verify stored DES/ACT setting of +8.7 and stored TDCO setting of -0.3. Execute a TIMESET function to find new DES/ACT setting based on location of new pump. If new DES/ACT setting is within range, proceed to Step 2.

IF NOT IN RANGE, Write down the new DES/ACT setting and call me. * before 4pm, * after 4pm. Do nothing further.


2. Execute a TDCO LEARN function to find a new TDCO setting based on the new DES/ACT setting. After execution of this function, the new TDCO setting should be in range.


3. Write down new DES/ACT and TDCO settings for my reference.


I've got my fingers' crossed.

Excellent, Wade - even I can understand those instructions.

And they fairly closely follow the timing instructions given the dealer service guys - except the 4pm thing.

Keep us posted.

Let me know how it turns out Wade. I have been playing hell with mine for the last week getting it "just right". So far this is what I have got:


Fuel Rate at idle 9.1MM3
IPT Actual about 8.3
IPT Desired 12.1
TDCO -2.5My biggest problem is trying to figure out how to get IPT desired lower. I am not sure if that is even possible. I can get the IPT actual to match desired but my fuel rate is screwed up. Does any of this make any sense to anyone?

Are you here GMCTD?

Damn, he was here as I was posting this.

What's your ECT, quomack?

And remind me again about your scanner?

Sorry Qwomack, this timing lingo is still a bit over my head. Didn't mean to give the impression that I knew what I was talking about. ;)

I don't know what you mean by IPT actual and IPT desired. I thought ACT/DES (actual/desired) was one setting?

Are you messing with pump rotation, or just programmed settings?

What's your ECT, quomack?

And remind me again about your scanner?

About 180*. Even went out and bought a new CTS.

The scanner is Car Code (http://www.obd-2.com). When I had the problems before, I managed to get -1.9 after you told me to put the IP back at the mark I had. The reason I am still pursuing this is because the mileage is killing me (about 12). Realized the Fuel rate was off and managed to get it right by moving the optic sensor. That is where everything went hell in handbasket.

I'm guessing you two are PMing each other, since it suddenly got quiet here. I don't mind you using this thread. I might learn something.

Sorry Qwomack, this timing lingo is still a bit over my head. Didn't mean to give the impression that I knew what I was talking about. ;)

I don't know what you mean by IPT actual and IPT desired. I thought ACT/DES (actual/desired) was one setting?

Are you messing with pump rotation, or just programmed settings?


Sorry, Wade. Didn't mean to take over your thread and ignore you at the same time.

As far as your question is concerned, here goes:

Original IPT Act/Des was about 14.5, too much in my opinion.
TDCO was -1.9, jus right
Fuel Rate was 4MM, caused by Optic Bump.
Adjusted Optic Sensor to get 9MM3, where I want it (stock).
This is where I get my current Act/Des timing settings, 8.3/12.1
Have tried moving pump manually to get Actual and Desired close. No dice.
Everytime I try a time set, P1214 is flagged (TDCO is off).Now you know where I am.

How does that ol girl run up there in the cold at -1.9? If mine comes back from the shop in that neighborhood, I'll need to decide whether to leave it or run it that way. Does it make any difference in startability?

I can't tell much of a difference with the -1.9 TDCO. The main problem I have been having is lack of mileage. This all started when I replaced my IP a cuple of years ago. She has always run good. When the IP was changed, mileage went from 18 to 11 (ouch). I put the exhaust on and went up to 12. Now since I have the scanner to read and set the parameters, I am bound and determined to get her right. If you are ever in the Twin Cities area, let me know. I would be more than happy to show you what I have got and let you drive her for comparison if you like.

BTW - I just got off the phone with GMCTD. He identified something that I did not know. I won't say what until I have a chance to verify first. Just want to keep it to the facts.

I just got a call from the shop.

They ran a TIMESET funtion and came up with DES/ACT of 8.6/8.3 ===> GOOD

Then they ran a TDCO LEARN and came up with a +0.79. ===> BAD

They're waiting for me to call them back with further instruction.

Maybe they didn't have the truck completely warmed up? That's my uneducated guess, but they say they took it for a ride and had it good and warm. For the meantime, I had them back the truck out of the shop and flip on the hi-idle to keep it warm till I get back to them.

WHAT SHOULD I HAVE THEM DO?

What scanner are they using, Wade?

Tech I

The technician said that he's been still messing with it, and the TDCO fluctuates from +1.06 to +0.70. Says he doesn't have a clue what to do to get the TDCO into the range I've specified.

At +8.5deg, TDCO should fall right onto -1.5deg.

ECT = ^180degf

no DTC's, not even a transmission code, or cyl bal code, nothing, or it won't LEARN.

I did a post earlier this year describing the commands and the results - lessee if I can find it

TDCL by cretan, 04-09-06

You're welcome to cut it out and take it to the tech, see if that will help.

I'm hoping the coolant temp was the problem. I just went down to the shop and replaced the RobertShaw 180 stat I had in there with a 190. The technician told me there were no stored codes of any kind, but the ECT's never got above 160 while he was working on it.

I got to monkey around with the Tech 1 while he wasn't lookin too. ;)

I'm afraid that even with the RobertShaw 190 stat, the lowflow bypass will prevent the coolant from reaching ^180degrees.

I'm afraid that even with the RobertShaw 190 stat, the lowflow bypass will prevent the coolant from reaching ^180degrees.

Wade, what's a lowflow bypass?:confused:

Technician's second attempt. ECT was 185-187. No change. Obviously he still sees a DES/ACT of +8.6/+8.3 because the pump didn't move. But he's still only getting a TDCO in the neighborhood of +1.2 to +0.5.

I'll read thru Cretan's post, as suggested, and see if I can come up with anything.

Wade, what's a lowflow bypass?:confused:

Check out the T-stats on Kennedy's website.

I just did, Wade. You mean the T-stats themselves, then? Shouldn't the 180s still reach 180?

The '95 single 'stat manifold was plumbed such that a seperate valve-disk on the t-stat would close the coolant bypass as the 'stat opened with increasing coolant temps - intent was to provide full flow thru the radiator only for quick cool-down.

Sadly, it did not accomplish that goal - been there, done that.

'96 saw a single 'stat manifold without the bypass valving, then late '96 saw the dual t-stat version when the single didn't offer much improvement.

Finally got the desired TDCO.

Here are the latest figures:
Fuel Rate @ idle - 2.5 - 2.8
IP Timing Actual - 13*
IP Timing Desired - 13.2*
TDCO - -1.9*Keep in mind that all of this was accomplished without turning the pump. All of it happened by adjusting the Optic Sensor. Final setting of OS was approx. 1mm to the driver's side of the line scribed on the Cam Ring.

As to the "secret" that I alluded to earlier, GMCTD indicated that the IAT being low could command the PCM to call for more advance (desired) than what the Optic is set at (Actual). During all of this, I had left the upper intake off so I could get to the pump easily. Needless to say there wasn't any boost and the IAT was probably ambient or just above. I do not know what the IAT was before as I was not monitoring it. I ended up putting the IAT sensor on the thermostat housing where it could catch the prop wash from the fan. Once the Optic was set and the IAT was fooled, everything fell into place. BTW IAT should be close to ECT give or take a couple of degrees.

Wade,
As far as not being able to come up to temp, I fully understand. My truck has the front end winter cover and idling I will never get above 160*. To make things heat up, close the hood, turn the A/C on high cool, roll the windows down, put in gear and stall the engine at about 1300 rpms. About 5 minutes of this and you should be in the 200* range. Watch the Trans temp. Mine was approaching 225*.

Major KUDOS go out to GMCTD for his efforts in all of this. Many thanks.

IAT needs to be close to ECT... gotchya.

Does des/act typically need to be in the neighborhood of 13 to hit -1.94tdco?

From my understanding, no. Actual/Desired should only have to be 8.5* to get -1.9. Don't know what mine is doing. But it's working and not throwing codes evrytime I start it. Hopefully my mileage will see some improvement.

I went for a drive in the ol Burb, and while cruising along I had a thought....

Could the Kennedy chip in my truck be preventing the TDCO LEARN from correctly setting the TDCO?

Tomorrow I'll put the stock chip back in and head back to the shop for another try.

That's a good question. You may want to call JK and see if there are any tricks.

You can call, but the answer will be no - hot-chip does not alter basic function, incl TIMESET and TDCO LEARN

JK may have some further ideas, tho - he's done this stuff way more than I have

This morning I put the factory chip back in, went to the shop, and gave it another go.

Prior to TIMESET, DES/ACT = 8.4/8.5
During TIMESET, DES/ACT = 0/3.0
After TIMESET, DES/ACT = 8.4/8.5

During TIMESET, the engine did sound labored, but the idle did not increase to 1000rpm.

Then we moved to the TDCO LEARN screen on the Tech 1

Prior to TDCO LEARN, TDCO = +0.79
After TDCO LEARN, TDCO = +0.79

FWIW: On the same screen showing the TDCO number, it showed an injection pulse width of 1.6ms

So no difference with the stock chip.

At time of running these functions, IAT = 79deg and ECT = 180deg.

Questions-

1. Should I advance the pump another couple of mm to see how that affects the TDCO? Maybe I have the same unknown issue that qwomack has that requires his timing to be that high.

2. Should I pull the IAT sensor and lay it on the valve cover or some place warm to try and get the IAT close to the ECT while executing the TIMESET and TDCO LEARN funtions?

I'm gettin frustrated.

If the Tech1 has not been upgraded, it may not read data correctly for late Injection Pumps.

ECT = 180deg.................IAT should be above 80deg

No DTC's

Select Misc Tests

Sel Output tests

Sel Inj pump

Sel TIME SET

Press UP arrow to begin, wait for ON to appear in lower right corner

Engine should idle up, sound quiet and somewhat labored

DES Inj Time should now read 0deg - PCM has commanded full OS retard

ACT Inj Time should be bouncing around 3.5deg for oem timing - note the average value which indicates the actual position in degrees

Sel OFF

Sel TDC OFFSET LEARN

Press the UP arrow to begin, wait till ON appears in the lower right corner, about 30secs

Engine should stumble, recover

Turn TDCO LEARN OFF

Sel DATA LIST, note TDCO number, sign should be negative

That should be the procedure for the Tech1

So, might help to increase IAT to above 100deg

Try marking, then moving the IP 1mm to driver's side, redo TIMESET, noting avg number, then TDCO LEARN

Is that an actual (+) sign for TDCO?

If the Tech1 has not been upgraded, it may not read data correctly for late Injection Pumps.

Is there a software version number or the like that I can check and compare?


Turn TDCO LEARN OFF


This function seemed to shut itself off after 20 seconds or so.

and "yes"... it's an actual + sign for the TDCO...

Ok - TDCO LEARN will time out normally - but you can turn it off at any time by hitting the OFF button.

So, try revving the engine up to various rpms below 1500rpm or so, observing the numbers while in TDCO LEARN - see any negative numbers, hit OFF, and PCM will accept that number.

Dunno on the Tech1 - the dealer would have the TSB or ECO, or whatever, some record indicating the when and where of it.

Will do. Shop's closed till Monday, so we'll try it again then.

Hey Qwomack! I'm heading up to the Viking game tomorrow. Might even be drivin the burb. Have you been to a game lately? It's been a few years for me, and I'm curious how the parking is in the Metrodome neighborhood these days.

The '95 single 'stat manifold was plumbed such that a seperate valve-disk on the t-stat would close the coolant bypass as the 'stat opened with increasing coolant temps - intent was to provide full flow thru the radiator only for quick cool-down.

Sadly, it did not accomplish that goal - been there, done that.

'96 saw a single 'stat manifold without the bypass valving, then late '96 saw the dual t-stat version when the single didn't offer much improvement.

Thanks for the explaination, GMCTD, I didn't have a clue about the whole thing except that we all want to upgrade to the dual thermostat crossover.

No problemo, guy - requires the HO hi-flow waterpump to take full advantage of the upgrade, increasing recirculation by 75% to eliminate 'hot-spots' and improving flow thru radiator by 15%.

Add the DMax fan, and it requires a cautionary warning notice on yer hood concerning preventing small childern and animals from approaching the grille area too closely while engine is running.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h181/webber250/11-05-06_0956.jpg

IAT is in the bottom right corner of picture, correct? Looks like I can unscrew it from the plenum and lay it on the valve cover / intake alongside the turbo to fool ECM into seeing 100+degree IAT. (No, that's not my truck, I just borrowed the pic from another post)

So today's gameplan is as follows...

1.) Rotate pump 1mm to driver's side.

2.) Drive till ECT >=180

3.) Remove IAT sensor from plenum and lay along turboside of intake
(Does sensor body need to be grounded?)

4.) Connect Tech 1. Verify IAT > 100, ECT > 180

5.) Execute TIMESET funtion. Verify DES/ACT ~8.5 or higher due to pump rotation in step 1.

6.) Execute TDCO LEARN funtion. Rev engine between idle and 1500rpm. End funtion the instant TDCO approaches -1.5 ~ -1.94.

7.) Verify new DES/ACT and TDCO settings on the Engine Data screen.

8.) Thread the IAT sensor back into the plenum and go for a ride.

Am I missing anything?

Skip the adjust the pump part, for now - try varying the rpm while in TDCO LEARN, see if you get any negative-signed numbers, and notice the total range between the current (+) numbers and any (-) numbers - that will tell us approximate position of the IP.

Then we can decide which way to move the IP.

Alrighty.

Eliminate Step 1.

Add Step 6a.) Note range of TDCO numbers shown during revving of engine.

I plan on getting in touch with you shortly after completing step 6.a.

I'm a permanent fixture, here............

I'm a permanent fixture, here............

You should feel wanted :)

RESULTS FROM TODAY...

IAT = 133 (sensor draped over coolant lines, hanging near turbo)
ECT = 183

Ran the TIMESET funtion ==> DES/ACT = 8.4/8.5

Ran the TDC OFFSET funtion half a dozen times.

One time we left the throttle steady and TDCO set around +0.78

A couple times we started the TDCO funtion and slowly increased throttle to ~1500rpm, and TDCO was +0.75 and seemed to increase with throttle up to +1.50.

A couple times we held the throttle around 1500, started the TDCO function, and watched the TDCO go from +1.50 down to +0.75 with decreasing throttle.

During one of the above procedures we saw -0.7 TDCO for a instant, but did not shut off the funtion in time to save it and we couldn't get it to happen again.

I would have called you if I had more time, but I had kids watching kids at home and didn't want to be away long.

So as of now, I have a DES/ACT of about 8.4/8.5 and a TDCO of +0.8

If I rotate the pump 1mm to the driver's side, will the DES/ACT end up around 11, and the TDCO end up around [(+0.8) - (2.5)] = -1.7? I don't know the relationship of DES/ACT to TDCO, I'm just guessing.

TDCO is calculated from Base timing - as timing is advanced, TDCO becomes more negative

+3.5deg = (-0.5deg)
+8.5deg = (-1.5deg)

Increasing rpm causes TDCO to increase more negative - as PCM attempts to call for advance with increasing rpm, TDCO recalculates on that advance

The looser the timing chainset, the more the numbers fluctuate, or bounce.

I am frankly puzzled as to why yours does not indicate negative numbers.

So, yeah - move the IP 1mm to driver's-side, do TIMESET and note result, then do TDCO LEARN.

I'd use the stock chip for the setup - then plug the upgrade in anytime after running these tests.

'Course, GM sez if TDCO won't calculate right, replace the PCM

I wonder... is it worth searching the local salvage yards for a different PCM?

Might be - but let's try this first, rule out a few things.

GM also sez could be the Tech1.

Anybody with an OBD1 in your area, or close to you - too bad you and qwomack aren't close enuff to get together for a little wrenching, and scanning.

qwomack has an ODBII, not sure if he has the software for my ODBI. And I think we're about 3.5 hours apart.

I'm actually a little suprised there isn't a 6.5 guy on these forums from Sioux Falls, or Sioux City. (Thought I'd plug in those city names, incase someone does a search on here for them someday) I'm about a half-hour from Sioux Falls, and about a hour from Sioux City. And I actually get down to Omaha quite often. I've got inlaws down there.

But, alas, not too many reasons to truck over to the Minneapolis/St.Paul area, cept for watching the Vikings lose a game first hand instead of on the TV. (ah, bad topic.. still sore about losing to the Cheeseheads)

I'll get the IP moved and give it another whirl tomorrow. Do you think 1mm is enuf, or do you think two is more likely to work?

Small steps first - ensures it will run after timeset

- too bad you and qwomack aren't close enuff to get together for a little wrenching, and scanning.

Wade,
You are more than welcome to come by if you get the chance and I'll be more than happy to help you out. 2 dummies can at least have a good laugh and a beer together. Don't sweat the Viking/Cheese Head thing, just don't slam the Panther's.):h

Seriously, though, I would help you out any way I can. I would come to you, but my IP won't be in until this weekend. Hell, I have an old high school buddy somewhere around Des Moines that I need to look up anyways.

The IP needs to be moved. The TDCO will only go so far. I would go 1mm to the driver's side. The procedure will work with the "stock or hot" chip. Just make sure the three mounting nuts are tight on the IP flange when running the truck.

I just can't figger out why TDCO isn't negative for the correct +8.5deg advance, CharlieP - you got any ideas?

You've done this a lot more than I have.

Over dinner I thought I'd get the pump moved so I can head to the shop to get scanned right after I get off work. Turns out my 1/2hr dinner break wasn't enough.

That nut on the passenger side is a bugger to reach, with the return line piping, cross over, and rubber fuel hoses getting in the way. Couldn't get on it from the top, so I ended up having to remove the AC compressor to try and get at it from the side.

I think a long racheting wrench with a flexible head would be the ticket, but I don't have one in my arsenal.

TODAY'S RESULTS:

Moved the pump 1mm to the driver's side.

IAT = 102
ECT = 181

DES/ACT = 8.5/8.7

TDCO = -0.62

WHOO HOO! We're in the negatives!

Not far enuff yet, however.

Congrats, dude - fyi, gearwrench makes a flex-head wratcheting box\open combo that works jes' fine.

Sears - not a vendor, but what the hey, eh? - carries 'em right out in plain sight, publicly displayed like they're not even ashamed of 'em.

The set without the reversing flip-tab works best - just flip the wrench - not like a pancake, fer crissake! - for on\off.

15mm 12-point is the ticket..............

So - what did the service tech think about the new experience, and all?

By your reaction, am I to assume you think this setting is "good enough"?

Should I maybe try bumping the pump another mm or 1/2mm (if that's actually possible)?

From what I've gathered, there's a significant difference between -1.5 and -1.94. Since I'm only at -0.62, am I incorrect in thinking there is still a significant improvement to be experienced by going down to -1.5 or more?

I'm pretty sure everyone at the shop, including the technician, thinks I'm insane.

Oh, yeah - more improvement is available - kick it over another mm, which is why I suggested the gearwrench.

Shouldda took 'im fer a ride when you first brought it in, then give 'im an AFTER ride at -1.94.

Oh, yeah - he'da been out on the 'pre-owned' lot, lookin' fer a 6.5 B4 somebody else found it.

Once there, kick it a little with the oem chip for reference - then pop it out, and in with JK's chip, and kick it again.

Chip change won't effect timing settings - will, however, effect pulse rate...........

Then, don't be surprised when people start whisperin' behind yer back 'cause you cain't stop grinnin'.

Yer a good man. Thank you so very much for ALL of your help!

I'll post again after moving her another mm and getting it scanned one more time.

Good job, Wade. You're a leg up on me 'cause I have yet to set the timing successfully. I 'll looking for help from you in the next few days. The IP should be in and running by this weekend.

-1.5 vs .62 night & day different, -1.94 is more so, but if it's gonna be real cold often I'd suggest staying to the -1.5 side of things, as until warmed up when cold at -1.94 mine wasn't happy with that much advance, clatter city, I actually thought I had a bad rod when I jumped into it once when I was runnning late and had not sufficiently warmed er up. At -1.5 I never had that experience.

A properly tweaked out 6.5 is a thing of beauty, and will bring a smile to your face, and bug eyes to "Kiddies" running their "hot fart can equipped" ricers that really don't know how to drive em.

Anything from -1.50 to -1.94 TDC will work fine. The difference between them is really finite.

Just keep bumping the IP. Very small increments make BIG changes.

I got er bumped another mm or so. I'll find out scanned results tomorrow afternoon/evening and post back. Got my fingers crossed I fall into the promised land of -1.5 ~ -1.94

Good job, Wade. You're a leg up on me 'cause I have yet to set the timing successfully. I 'll looking for help from you in the next few days. The IP should be in and running by this weekend.

Ask away, just don't ask me any ODBII questions. ;)

Ask away, just don't ask me any ODBII questions. ;)


Where's the fun in that?):h

It's been a long time coming, but here's how the OBD1 guys will be doing it in the future:

My guess is that will be true dependent on how much you ask for this software.

There's typically a financial reason that a lot of folks are still driving ODBI trucks.

How about priced around $300 with some very strong trip datalogging, audible warnings, fuel use calculator etc...

Data cable included? ;)

I'll have a better feel for what it's worth after I get the bill from the shop for using their Tech 1 half-a-dozen times throughout this time setting dilemma. :confused:

Why'd you ditch the pic?

Complete kit. Does darn near everything the Tech 2 will do on the 94-5 6.5...

What? What? I don't see anything!! John, is this the software you mentioned in the past?? Any more details?? DON'T TEASE ):h


How about priced around $300 with some very strong trip datalogging, audible warnings, fuel use calculator etc...

Umm.......what is 'darn near'?

I'm planning to pick up the several available OBD1\OBD2 pc-ware packages for testing against a real Tech2 with latest factory upgrades for 6.5L service - sort of an independent "I ain't gettin' paid fer this, so the best really is really the best - or not" sorta non-scam thing, with equal emphasis on interface-cable troubleshooting.

"Hey - this runs good on my pc, but it don't talk to my truck" sort of stuff.

That's what I've done for 50 years - that's what I do, for a few more months.

So - where does the Tech2 come up short?

I think you got it backwards, GMCTD.

John indicated that his new software would do darn near everything that a TechII would do; implying that the TechII is still the best diagnostic scanner on the market.

;)

de nada

What? What? I don't see anything!! John, is this the software you mentioned in the past?? Any more details?? DON'T TEASE ):h

This is it! More screen shots:

FINALLY!

IAT = 109
ECT = 181

DES/ACT = +8.5/+8.3

TDCO = -1.76

I'm callin it good~!

We're all breathlessly awaiting yer first "Today I nailed it from yada yada yada, etc" post.

Well... I took it out for a ride, but had to take it easy. My homemade turbomaster was a little sticky, so I couldn't get on it too hard without spiking the boost. A little penetrating oil will take care of that.

After this weekend's fishing trip pullin my 4000lb boat 300 - 400 miles, I should have a better feel of the difference.

Thanks again!

Oh, very well, then!!

The key to that trip will be the EGT gage and the ECT gage - no more than 1125deg pre-turbo and make sure the ECTdoes not start climbing.

'Course, I'm more skittish than most, but the hands on the steering wheel are the hands that built the truck, so caution is my byword.

Congrats Wade! Can't wait for a trip report.

JK,

Looks great! You have piqued my interest.. a bidirectional scan/performance logging tool for OBD-1. When??

1125 sustained, or peak?

I typically don't sustain anything much higher than 750 ~ 800, and peaks of no more than 1100. My pyro gauge turns from green to yellow at 1050, red some place after that, but I've never hit that.

I've NEVER had excessive ECT temps. I think I saw my truck get over 200 once pullin my boat in the dead heat of summer, but I'm not even sure of that.

JK,

Looks great! You have piqued my interest.. a bidirectional scan/performance logging tool for OBD-1. When??

Just need to iron out a couple of details like CD box and back side screening and it will be ready for release.

That's 1125deg sustained, Wade, keeping an eye on the ECT gage - if ECT is low side of normal, 1225deg spike is probably safe.

Really have to be careful up there, since you have no cac to keep IAT's low

So, Wade - how 'bout a performance report on your recently repaired and re-assembled rig?

A week ago i went on a 200mile fishing trip pullin my 4000 lb boat. I was not impressed, so I didn't bother to write down any numbers. It was all 55 ~ 65 mph highways.

However, this weekend I went on a 400 mile fishing trip pullin the same boat. This time it was almost all 75 ~ 80mph interstate driving.

I typically avoid interstate travel with my burb, since it runs about 2500+rpm at that speed. But this time there was no other feasible way to our destination. So I hooked up the boat and headed for the interstate, expecting a long drive at around 65 ~ 70 mph and battling egt's the whole way.

Sometime after the first hundred miles I realized that I have a pretty sticky wastegate. My boost would typically dump around 12 and fall back to 8psi, but would continue to climb with more throttle from that point, so i would never push it up past 10psi after that point. That's what would hold my speeds down in the neighborhood of 65 - 70mph.

Then at one point I started climbing a hill at those speeds. The cruise control added more throttle, and I watched the boost climb past the 10 psi mark. It peaked at around 13 ~14 psi, and the wastegate appeared to dump again cuz suddenly the boost dropped to around 8 psi. The boost held right there no matter how much additional throttle I gave it. When I crested the hill, while keeping the boost around 8 and the EGT's under 1050, I continued to give it throttle and accelerated to around 80mph~(2600rpm)! Man, talk about torque at those speeds! I climbed hills without much more than a 100 degree increase in EGT's that would have previously caused the tranny to downshift, the boost to spike, and EGT's to soar!

The rest of the trip, once I'd get up to 65mph, all I'd have to do is poke the boost to 13~14psi for an instant to get the sticky wastegate to open up for good. The boost would drop and hold around 8~9 and I could accelerate up to and hold 80mph on all but the steepest grades!

I was extremely pleased.

Now I need to tear into my turbo and see exactly what's stickin in there. I'm anxious to get it working properly, too bad boating season is getting to the end.

Hint - remove the spring from the adjustable wg actuator, see if the wg has full travel, noting any point of binding.

Wg will never open to full travel - takes less than 1/4" for full dump - but you're looking for any resistance to movement.

For an adjustable trip, reconnect the wg solenoid, put an adjustable pot to the MAP in the cab, and you can dial-in desired Boost.

You don't sound nearly as disappointed as week before last, tho..............

Ding ding ding! I'll bet the threaded rod on my homemade turbomaster is hanging up a bit when sliding thru the hole on the mounting bracket.

No, I'm definitely not as disappointed. However, I never ran my burb that hard before installing the new timing set, installing the chip, and adjusting the timing, so I have no basis of comparison.

Can't do the adjustable dump. Don't have a vacuum pump anymore.

Gotta get that threaded rod ground smooth...

Good solution for that is brass or aluminum upholstery rivet, or similar - the rod rides in the long hollow shank, which acts like a bushing for linear-movement, the spring rides on the flat head, holding the rivet in place

I wish I could picture exactly what you're talking about in my head, but so far no luck.

Here's a rivet...
http://clutch68.chinese-suppliers.com/images/rivet/big/p8.jpg

Is this what you had in mind? If so, then the next question is... where might I find one of these rivets... My best option is Ace Hardware here in town, but I'm not holdin my breath. ;)

Excellent - top row, last on the right would be most suitable.

Once again, folks - show 'n tell, 'n all that jazz...............

bump... Check out revision with sketch in post 85.

The scheme in the sketch would work, dependent on finding a rivet with suitable shank length.

A shorter length, placed in the bracket with the spring between the nut and the rivet collar\head, might be more practical.

Do a distributor search for that rivet oem, or order a bag of 100, offer them to others with similar problem at a reasonable stipend, they pay shipping.

OR - get a brass bolt, drill to suit

Like this?

Here's the thing(s) -

The WG actuator diaphragm centered the rod thru the bracket hole, allowing linear travel without binding.

The silicone rubber diaphragm also allowed lateral movement, as the rod moved thru an arc dictated by the radius of the wg control arm - slight, but still to be considered in any modification.

Any compression-type spring will deform sideways as compressive tension is increased.

So, the task at hand is to center the rod while allowing lateral movement thru the hole in the bracket, such that the threads do not snag on any sharp edges of the hole.

Try the second scheme, but instead, install the head on top of the bracket, such that the spring cannot deform.

Get a brass bolt that fits into the spring, and has enough diameter to drill\bore it to fit over the actuator rod would be the easiest method

The hole thru the bolt will need be large enough to allow for lateral movement

You'll also need to remove the threads from the bolt to prevent the spring from catching in the threads.

An alternate method would be to remove the rod completely, using a tension-type spring between the wg arm and the bracket, with an adjustable eye-bolt thru the bracket - only the spring moves - stretches - with the arm.

I usually put in a rolled metal sleeve between the threaded bolt and springs to keep it from binding up. metal sleeves are sold in common thread sizes, 3/8" 1/2" ect.

An alternate method would be to remove the rod completely, using a tension-type spring between the wg arm and the bracket, with an adjustable eye-bolt thru the bracket - only the spring moves - stretches - with the arm.


I like that idea. No worry about binding. My only concern is having enough room between the turbo and the bracket. I'll have to check it out.

Will also have to check the local farm store for steel sleeves. That might be the quickest fix.

I think this sketch has all the bugs worked out, and I only need to purchase two bolts. I think aluminum bolts would really be the ticket. They'd be easier to drill and would keep the end on the opposite side of the spring from the mounting bracket lighter, lessening the sliding resistance thru the bolt and mounting bracket.

Good scheme - give it a try

I think this sketch has all the bugs worked out, and I only need to purchase two bolts. I think aluminum bolts would really be the ticket. They'd be easier to drill and would keep the end on the opposite side of the spring from the mounting bracket lighter, lessening the sliding resistance thru the bolt and mounting bracket.


Actually that replicates the Heath Turbo master fairly close, also a larger diameter spring shouldn't collapse over into itself requiring full length shimming

Here it is, built like the last sketch with a few modifications.

I had two springs from my first attempt at building one of these a couple years ago. I took those springs to the hardware store and bought grade 2 hex head bolts with long threadless shanks that just fit inside springs. One spring was a larger diameter than the other, requiring two different sized bolts. I wanted to be able to interchange the two springs, so I put the smaller of the two bolts in the mounting bracket and used a bushing to hold the larger spring centered on the shaft. In this way, I can eliminate the bushing and swap to the smaller spring if it prooves necessary. However, judging by how the boost has been so far, I think I'll keep using the bigger spring.

I cut the treads off the bolts and drilled a hole thru the bolt axis. I used a piece of 3/16ths threadless rod and died my own threads on the end to suit.

So far is works much better than the old one made from 1/4" threaded rod that liked to hang up on the threads.

Careful, Wade - somebody might see that and get a patent on it, and then sue ya fer infringement................

Good job, btw.

Thanks for the ideas, JD.

One last little tid bit of info to end this thread...

If you remove the AC compressor from its mounting bracket to rotate the IP, be gentle with it. I think I'm going to need a new compressor-to-hose seal and freon this spring.