Guys,


Steve and I built a test stand that would hold my FASS pump and the stock Duramax filter head. On the suction end was a stock sending unit in a 5 gallon bucket of diesel with a vaccum/pressure gauge just before the FASS pump. On the output side, a twin of the first vacuum/pressure gauge and a ball valve to provide a restriction in order to vary pressure. Then the fuel was sent on to a flow meter on my friend's Superflow 901 engine dyno, and finally returned back to the 5 gallon bucket.


The results are pretty interesting. The stock pickup created 6-7 inches of mecury pressure drop, where as the Billet Pickup in a sending unit modified for -10 AN, only created a 1 inch drop. Will it make more power? I don't know, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif but it sure did reduce the amount of restriction on the suction side of the pump. Here are some pics. Sorry I'm not as good a photographer as P.C. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/ZCZ_stockpick1.JPG


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/878_BP1.JPG


On Edit: For more info on these Billet Pickups do a search for "Billet". http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifEdited by: Trippin

Guy,





I've got one in the swamp right now! Hasn't been raining enough so we've been pumping water from the creek to our mud holes adjacent to the creek.





Actually, I found quite an improvement in how my little Blaster washer pump works with a properly sized pickup.


I'm thinking if I ever drop my tank, I'll probably pull my "reamed" OE pickup and install yours along with the top fitting. My pump accepts 1/2" NPT so the sixe should definitely help.





Assuming screen was on during both tests? I'd be curious to know if that screen produces measurable restriction...

Ok so what was the output flow rate change between pickups @ different psi's. That is what would matter most. Since you had a flowmeter hooked up I'm assuming you used it. Was it a measureable difference?

Ok so what was the output flow rate change between pickups @ different psi's. That is what would matter most. Since you had a flowmeter hooked up I'm assuming you used it. Was it a measureable difference?


At this point the output flow appears to be the same on both. The flow meter on the output side did present a restriction to the system and therefore, larger or multiple meters need to be used in future testing. This was the first time we used the test stand and as you might expect discoveries about the equpiment were made and test procedures developed. After a pause for reflection, more testing will be done in the future to validate yesterdays results on flow. The drastic difference in restriction at the pickup was pretty fascinating though. I enjoy the journey of discovery! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Guy,





I've got one in the swamp right now! Hasn't been raining enough so we've been pumping water from the creek to our mud holes adjacent to the creek.





Actually, I found quite an improvement in how my little Blaster washer pump works with a properly sized pickup.


I'm thinking if I ever drop my tank, I'll probably pull my "reamed" OE pickup and install yours along with the top fitting. My pump accepts 1/2" NPT so the sixe should definitely help.





Assuming screen was on during both tests? I'd be curious to know if that screen produces measurable restriction...








The screen was on for both tests. I didn't think about trying it without the screen because you never know what you might pick from the swamp/BP station! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


I'll try the screen test next time. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

If the screen was on for both, then it obviously wasn't hurting much.

One of the things we did in the test setup was to keep the relationship of the fuel supply, fuel pickup, fuel supply hose and pump the same as installed in the truck, so as to create real world testing. After the first 4 hours running the tests there were as many new questions as there were answers to the old questions. One thing proven without question was the improvement of the new fuel pickup. We will be trying additional flow meters to try and lower the restriction on the outlet side and adding a few more gauges to get finer resolution in the future. On a side note who ever said the stock fuel filter will only flow 48gph is full of it! It does create a restriction point in the system but I can assure you it flows one hell of alot more than 48 gph!

A Racor Representative ...


I believe the rating is based on filtering Efficiency ... I'll bet we can push all we want thru it included harmful particles ... This is what I wonder about ...





Mac

Diesel Tech wrote: On a side note who ever said the stock fuel filter will only flow 48gph is full of it! It does create a restriction point in the system but I can assure you it flows one hell of alot more than 48 gph!



Steve,


Several years ago on the Diesel Page, a Racor representative was responding to questions about their fuel filter for our trucks. Someone asked the question what the filter was rated for with respect to flow. The Racor reps answer was 48 gph. That was probably a number in a spec from GM/Isuzu that Racor signed up to when doing the filter / filter head design. While the Racor rep answered the question, he really only answered it partially. He should have said the rated flow rate of the filter is 48 gph @ X.XX psi drop across the filter. So you guys can flow 48 gph through the filter/filter head for us and measure the pressure drop across the assembly. Then we will have the complete answer. So thats most likely the origin of the 48 gph value for the Racor fuel filter. Continue on,,,,, you guys have a good experiment going here!!


Alan





A side note: The above kind of reminds of Racor tech answers when people ask what the micron rating of the fuel filter is. Racor always responds 2 micron. They never answer in the same sentence what the efficiency of the filter is at that 2 micron rating. The two go together.





On edit:


Go to this Racor web page and browse the specs for the 600 series filters. This is the filter series that many of us are using as a supplemental filter. Most are using the 660 filter. This filter / filter head has a rated flow of 60 gph @ 0.05 psi drop across the clean filter.


http://www.parker.com/RACOR/PRODUCTTABLES/TABLE-SPINON-MEDIUMFLOW.JPG (http://www.parker.com/RACOR/PRODUCTTABLES/TABLE-SPINON-MEDIUMFLOW.JPG)Edited by: OC_DMAX

OC_Dmax


That's the problem, with all the half truths being told. You never get a real answer. With a little rehoseing we can test just about anything with this setup. Did the Racor rep happen to say anything about restriction levels new Vs dirty? We ran the same 5 gallons of fuel around the loop for plenty of time. I guess next time I could take a fuel sample first then take another at the end and we could see how well the OEM filter(Napa Gold) plus FASS(Fleetgaurd) filter clean the fuel. This would let us know if we were pushing dirt pass the filter assemble.


Let me just say we learned everything we were looking for at the end of the first day of testing. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Now in the same time frame we came up with a whole lot more questions we feel we need to answer. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Well I just went to the Racor site listed in your edit and come away with more questions. In my research I called Racor and spoke to an engineer for about 1/2 hour and he convinced me that we should not use there product in our application as it would not meet our requirements. He said he did not feel good about running the Racor elements with the plastic see thru bowl at anything above 15 psi. Now the spec from your page clearly states 30 psi!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I will call them back and see if we can get a psi drop when the filter is considered dirty and time to replace as I still don't have that number.

Trippin wouldn't it have been easier to put the gauges and flowmeter on a truck and remove the bed to access the sending unit? It's so much work to build a test stand 10 ft long to get the proper pump placement in relation to the tank and all of the kinks in the tubing proper so I just used a truck when I did it. You did have the pump @ the right level and distance from the 5 gallon bucket for your testing didn't you? What output flow #'s are you trying to achieve? 100gph @ 5psi? 200gph @ 10psi? 50gph@ 20psi? Or are you just trying to see what gph your pump will flow with stock lines @ x psi? Did you ever figure out what gph you need to return to keep things working?

On a side note who ever said the stock fuel filter will only flow 48gph is full of it! It does create a restriction point in the system but I can assure you it flows one hell of alot more than 48 gph!


Any chance you're willing to let us in on how much gph it does actually flow???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif Edited by: Mackin

Trippin wouldn't it have been easier to put the gauges and flowmeter on a truck and remove the bed to access the sending unit? It's so much work to build a test stand 10 ft long to get the proper pump placement in relation to the tank and all of the kinks in the tubing proper so I just used a truck when I did it.


CPMAC, I'm not as smart as you are, so I try to keep things simple in the beginning. Thanks for pointing out the obvious differences between the test stand and a funtioning vehicle. (i.e. the length of.... and shape of the tubing in a vehicle as well as the return system. Placement of the sending unit in relationship to the pump was kept the same as it is in my truck, which is the outlet of the sending unit at, or below the inlet to the pump. Not the most ideal, which would be to have the inlet of the pump far below the tank.) I assume your post's purpose was to discredit anything I did? See the thing is....if someone like you has already completed the tests and was willing to share the results then there would be no need for me to do it. Instead it seems like we are back to the same old CPMAC phrase:


"I know somethig you don't know".


After completing a battery of tests in a controlled enviroment the next obvious step was to go to a truck and see if the results were repeatable. Then I have two different types of testing validating the results.


It sure seems like you and I always end up working against each other....Wouldn't it be easier to collaborate? What flow meters did you use on the truck. I'm assuming you had one on the feed and one on the return and a way to monitor both at the same time. Hopefully something that automatically recorded data.

Heartbeat your missing the point. Pumps and filters are rated in certain conditions. The factory filter can have way more shoved through it than it can handle. The question is will it work with your pump and extra filtration to allow enough clean fuel through.

Trippin it wasn't to discredit you as I am sure your findings are correct and anything you are doing is not going to hurt a thing. I was only trying to see what exactly you had tested and to make sure you were thinking about all the extra kinks and such in a truck. I didn't have flowmeters with data recording capability so I'm sure your setup will work better and more efficiently. Long ago I stated what I believe is needed for gph with a Duramax and everyone thinks I'm crazy. I just hope when your done and your testing shows I was right so long ago you will let me know.

Diesel Tech wrote: Did the Racor rep happen to say anything about restriction levels new Vs dirty?


Reference this topic and look for the post by "Racor" about 5 posts into the thread. Unforutunately, his answer is in terms of "vacuum" which is how the stock system operates (as you well know).


http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006553











Diesel Tech wrote: On a side note who ever said the stock fuel filter will only flow 48gph is full of it!


For completeness, this is the thread where Racor wrote about the 48 gph flow rate. There was another post where this topic was discussed in more detail, but that was over one and a half years ago. It appears as if TDP only maintains 12 months worth of posts, then deletes them. Like I indicated above, 48 gph is only part of the story.


http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006123#000006





Hope the above helps,


AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

Heartbeat your missing the point. Pumps and filters are rated in certain conditions. The factory filter can have way more shoved through it than it can handle. The question is will it work with your pump and extra filtration to allow enough clean fuel through.


It's more out of curiosity that i want to know. I just want to know what they did see. Probably doesn't matter to me, but i'm one that likes to know all the numbers and learn. I'm far from knowing half of your or alot of the guys on here's knowledge with the fuel system and don't have the time nor the resources to do testing. This is new to me and i'm just looking to find out and learn as much as possible.


If you posted about what you think or what you have come up in regards to gph, i must have missed it. Care to repeat what you posted http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Edited by: heartbeatcanada

CPMac


Erections for more than 4 hours are detremental to your health. Watch the commercials. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Trippin it wasn't to discredit you as I am sure your findings are correct and anything you are doing is not going to hurt a thing. I was only trying to see what exactly you had tested and to make sure you were thinking about all the extra kinks and such in a truck. I didn't have flowmeters with data recording capability so I'm sure your setup will work better and more efficiently. Long ago I stated what I believe is needed for gph with a Duramax and everyone thinks I'm crazy. I just hope when your done and your testing shows I was right so long ago you will let me know.


I don't remeber seeing your gph #s. Perhaps it was before I discovered the site or I just plain forgot. If you would please refresh my memory or PM me I would appreciate it. I will most certainly concede to your findings in the end as both of our testing could validate the other's. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Funny


I remember someone( can't remember who he was) stating no need for any more fuel cause he laid down this monster hp #s on 7 cylinders. We could do a search, he could do a search and bring his actuall comments back up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Seems now he has been the proponant for more fuel in the Duramax.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Hmmm. I missed that one.

Funny


I remember someone( can't remember who he was) stating no need for any more fuel cause he laid down this monster hp #s on 7 cylinders. We could do a search, he could do a search and bring his actuall comments back up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Seems now he has been the proponant for more fuel in the Duramax.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Hmmm. I missed that one. Mike your really going to far with this stupid bit, i'm starting to believe you. I never said I made my number on 7 cylinders just that one injector was bad. When you get to the amount of fuel I was using to get to my 592 then, well nevermind cause you never will.

CPMac


Erections for more than 4 hours are detremental to your health. Watch the commercials. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif You've got to be the only guy I know that would be interested in an erection commercial.

Heartbeat your missing the point. Pumps and filters are rated in certain conditions. The factory filter can have way more shoved through it than it can handle. The question is will it work with your pump and extra filtration to allow enough clean fuel through.


So how much is too much? Do you know what the factory rated pressure for the filter is? Have you done any testing with measurements at all? You sure complain a lot and add little to nothing to the discussion. If you have the answers why not share them here. We've setup a controlled environment to get the base answers. Once we have those we can apply that to what we find in the truck and arrive at proper sizes of pumps and filters. Let's see your flow rates as it seems they cannot be found in a post by anyone but you.

I dont remember seeing what you thought was needed in trems of gph either. What are your findings/thoughts?

I dont remember seeing what you thought was needed in trems of gph either. What are your findings/thoughts?





Not sure if this was a question for me or not but my estimate for a pump and filter flow rate for the high Hp trucks is 220 gph. The reason we are doing the testing is to find the answer for sure.

speed cost money so how FA$$$$$$$$$T do ya want to go.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Very interesting post guy, Im looking forward to more informationEdited by: sdaver

Heartbeat your missing the point. Pumps and filters are rated in certain conditions. The factory filter can have way more shoved through it than it can handle. The question is will it work with your pump and extra filtration to allow enough clean fuel through.


So how much is too much? Do you know what the factory rated pressure for the filter is? Have you done any testing with measurements at all? You sure complain a lot and add little to nothing to the discussion. If you have the answers why not share them here. We've setup a controlled environment to get the base answers. Once we have those we can apply that to what we find in the truck and arrive at proper sizes of pumps and filters. Let's see your flow rates as it seems they cannot be found in a post by anyone but you. I don't know how much is too much as I haven't seen any need to push it to those limits. I try to run 5 psi and around a 50gph free flow pump. I have done testing with all kinds of equipment just not data logging equipment. I said that a holley red will do supply more than ample fuel for what anyone is doing now. A holley red free flows 47 gph of #2 @ 1 ft draw 1/2 inch line. As we all know some trucks do more than others and what is causing that is the same issue that keeps smaller pumps from maintaining psi. Throwing a bigger pump on would at best only mask the problem. I have never seen a gain on a dyno with a lift pump. However I do believe they are a neccesary item on most if not all Duramax's. As for the billet fuel pickup, I doubt for a long time we will see any dyno improvement with it either but I know it's going in the right direction.

Since we have a Holley red, blue , silver and black pumps for testing where are you measureing 5 psi at? Is it before or after the factory filter? Which regulator are you useing? Are you measureing at idle or WOT 2800rpm? Let's see what they really flow.

5 psi anytime. The small regulator with the i.d. less that 1/4 inch. At the factory test location or anywhere else.

I've found the Holley Red to be woefully inadequate with a simple TST Powermax or my big VA box as tested on a customer's truck.


I've also found the VA to make more power with LESS psi drop and cooler EGT's...





Guy, I hope to have something in the line of pumps for you to test soon. I'm glad you found a suitable flow turbine. Saves me about $1300...


Just for grins, an ammeter (I'm also assuming you are regulating to 13.8ish volts) would be kinda neat to have as well as some notes on noise output since we aren't putting these on open headered race vehicles...





BTW, what kind of volume does the FASS REALLY deliver???Edited by: Kennedy

5 psi anytime. The small regulator with the i.d. less that 1/4 inch. At the factory test location or anywhere else.








I assume you are now answering for CPmac so where are you testing at, as I've tested a red pump long ago and it will not hold 5 psi at the test port with a Hot Juice or TST or Quad 215 or TTS Xtreme, at 2800 WOT. Which Holley regulator you talking about since they all have less than 1/4" id's. Also there is a psi drop across the stock filter so it does matter!

CPMac


Erections for more than 4 hours are detremental to your health. Watch the commercials. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


You've got to be the only guy I know that would be interested in an erection commercial.


Thank God it doesn't happen everytime I see Steve Coles name like it does for you. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I know I am on your list (like I really care) and seems Trippen too. Guy contributes a lot to this forum " Man on the run"-Beatles. I try to as much as I can. Steve Cole does also. HOW ABOUT YOU? All you seem to do is push your hate. You sir help no one on this board. All your stuff is secret and cannot be backed up. I can predict when you are going to post your b/s hate, so can everyone else. Grow up and become part of the The Diesel Place and contribute.


mike

Steve yes Jr can answer for me on that because he was there during the testing and has one on his truck. Also when he said the small one I guess that wasn't informative enough so I'll tell you, the one designed to regulate between 1 and 4 psi. And I guess if your seeing a big drop through the filter that should be your first clue as to where to look IMHO.


Mike if you don't see I'm contributing then you are still going to far with the stupid bit. I've said before and if others want to do more testing that is great (it is needed). Up to this point no one has showneven a 1 hp improvement with a lift pump on a properly working truck. A fuel system modification is one of the next steps @ or around the 500 rwhp level but it ain't in the system before the engine. Sure there are trucks out there that have a problem that needs fixed in the fuel supply system but a ridiculously big lift pump is not a fix. A big pump and line system isn't necessary for the hp 99% of people are ever shooting for. So if your planning on going on in your quest for power it may not be a waste of money. It is however not going to hurt a thing with free flowing lines but a 200 or so gph pump would be a gross waste of energy and money since most of it would be returned to the tank unused.


Oh and Mike I don't want you to ever question my ability to back up my claims since the last time you questioned me we agreed on a friendly wager for me to come to CA and prove to you but you welch'd out on the deal so STFU.

OK boys, were heading off in another direction here. Lets bring it back on topic. Everybody to neutral corners. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Lets pull our skirts down and get back on track ,ladies ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Lets pull our skirts down and get back on track ,ladies ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





I wonder if the time spent at WOT and high rpm has anything to do with why, some people see the need for more fuel delivery and others do not. Perhaps the factory fuel filter acts as a reservoir and covers up, for a short duration, the lack of fuel delivery. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Steve yes Jr can answer for me on that because he was there during the testing and has one on his truck. Also when he said the small one I guess that wasn't informative enough so I'll tell you, the one designed to regulate between 1 and 4 psi. And I guess if your seeing a big drop through the filter that should be your first clue as to where to look IMHO.


......................a 200 or so gph pump would be a gross waste of energy and money since most of it would be returned to the tank unused.





Since Holley rates three regulators to regulate in that range why not come clean and state which one......... quit beating around the bush.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Also I never stated what the drop across the fuel filter was, big or little, so quit putting words in my mouth, I stated there was a drop and that I needed to take that into consideration to try to duplicate your claims. We are going to prove the claims are true or bullsh*t and I'm not looking for you to come crying later and say you did it wrong after were done.


As far as using a 200 gph pump it doesn't have to return anything when installed properly, so you are completely off base making a claim that you know nothing about!

So as we remove obstructions such as the inlet tube and the filter head check ball, does the factory fuel pump become closer to adequate?

So as we remove obstructions such as the inlet tube and the filter head check ball, does the factory fuel pump become closer to adequate?


Any obstruction that is removed makes the system work easier, but remember things are there for a reason and removing it has it's own consequences. The amount of fuel necessary is going to depend on the amount of power your making plus the amount of fuel returned to the tank. The pressure needed is going to depend on the restrictions within the system and time.

Steve yes Jr can answer for me on that because he was there during the testing and has one on his truck. Also when he said the small one I guess that wasn't informative enough so I'll tell you, the one designed to regulate between 1 and 4 psi. And I guess if your seeing a big drop through the filter that should be your first clue as to where to look IMHO.


......................a 200 or so gph pump would be a gross waste of energy and money since most of it would be returned to the tank unused.





Since Holley rates three regulators to regulate in that range why not come clean and state which one......... quit beating around the bush.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Also I never stated what the drop across the fuel filter was, big or little, so quit putting words in my mouth, I stated there was a drop and that I needed to take that into consideration to try to duplicate your claims. We are going to prove the claims are true or bullsh*t and I'm not looking for you to come crying later and say you did it wrong after were done.


As far as using a 200 gph pump it doesn't have to return anything when installed properly, so you are completely off base making a claim that you know nothing about! How does it flow 200gph then? It has to be used or be returned to have flow.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Also if you could get 1/2 that much in the motor it would hydo-lock the cylinders.

So as we remove obstructions such as the inlet tube and the filter head check ball, does the factory fuel pump become closer to adequate?


Any obstruction that is removed makes the system work easier, but remember things are there for a reason and removing it has it's own consequences. The amount of fuel necessary is going to depend on the amount of power your making plus the amount of fuel returned to the tank. The pressure needed is going to depend on the restrictions within the system and time. So you are trying to sell the general public the fact that 200gph is needed to make 600+ or even a 1000hp on diesel fuel. Maybe you should do somemore research? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Steve yes Jr can answer for me on that because he was there during the testing and has one on his truck. Also when he said the small one I guess that wasn't informative enough so I'll tell you, the one designed to regulate between 1 and 4 psi. And I guess if your seeing a big drop through the filter that should be your first clue as to where to look IMHO.


......................a 200 or so gph pump would be a gross waste of energy and money since most of it would be returned to the tank unused.





Since Holley rates three regulators to regulate in that range why not come clean and state which one......... quit beating around the bush.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Also I never stated what the drop across the fuel filter was, big or little, so quit putting words in my mouth, I stated there was a drop and that I needed to take that into consideration to try to duplicate your claims. We are going to prove the claims are true or bullsh*t and I'm not looking for you to come crying later and say you did it wrong after were done.


As far as using a 200 gph pump it doesn't have to return anything when installed properly, so you are completely off base making a claim that you know nothing about! Steve I guess if you really can't read then I could get you a part #. I said between 1 and 4 psi. Holley sells only 2 part numbers in that range and the only difference is one is chrome and one isn't. On the big drop, I guess I figured if it was worth you mentioning it must be a noticable drop which would be a big problem. If you get a 50gph pumps flow to the right place then you will maintain psi. If you maintain psi you don't need more. You of all people would be the last one I could think of to actually need more flow than that. Even though I don't think much of you, you should take my advice and go work on something else. But if you really wanted to test it why don't you get the flowmeter on a truck on a superflow and test the stock systems flow on both sides of the system then add a pump and see where the fuel is going, I think you would answer more of your questions that way.

JRmac


Are you going to answer a simple question or just continue to be a jerk? You need to go learn how a pump works! Just because it's rate at some flow rate when free flow it will not flow that when under pressure. Go to any quality electric pump supplier and get the Flow Rate Vs Pressure Vs Current charts. Then maybe you will learn something. Were not selling here just doing the testing and suppling the results and I'm really beginning to wonder if you have done any testing at all.

A pump big enough to flow 200 gph of diesel fuel will have to either return a bunch or be set up to run @ partial capacity via electric current. Either way it is definate overkill. Edited by: CPMac

So you've said you've done no testing with measurement equipment in place. Then how can you say you have the answers. The proper way is to test each componet then understand how it works. Make the necessary changes to improve the system and forget about the problems.





I've found the Holley Red to be woefully inadequate with a simple TST Powermax or my big VA box as tested on a customer's truck.





So why don't you inform us all on how the systems works and what it's limits are and why! It appears you have all the answers since you can make 592 rwhp with a bad injector to boothttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif

Steve the problem here is, You have yet yourself to prove anything I or CPMac has said to be false. Overkill is aperently what you are after. I guess if you want to OVERSPEND a customer's money more power to ya. Business is not done that way back here in Missouri. Put some realtime facts out on a truck and prove your big gains????


P.S. The first test truck did have monitoring equip on it for over a year. Now that is real world testing.

JRmac


Let me see, so far all we have said is the pickup is overly restrictive. Proved it with the testing and supplied the test data to back up our claims and provided a fix for it. Talked about testing the rest of the components and the possible requirements for a fix.


Let's see what you and CPmac have provided............................. nothing but bitch and complain. You have made claims that a Holley Red pump is all anyone needs but everyone including myself that tested that combination shows it doesn't work! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Then you start trying to put words in my mouth, now it's complain about cost when none has been discussed. Maybe that's how you do things back in Missouri but out here we test first, to make sure of our claims so they can be backed up with data not BS!


As far as power claims show me one Quad box or VA box that you rip people off for that has ever beaten our Xtreme! Maybe Mackin, Sdaver, Diesel Power, Big Dipper and Trippin all lied when they did there own back to back testing. Show me one 2001 that you've programmed that the speed limiter is fixed in, or how about a 2002 - 2004 LB7 with the famous 215 program that doesn't surge and rattle to beat the band. Better yet how about a reprogram for a LLY application.


Now let's get back on track to the thread. Were doing testing to find the problems and provide a fix for it. Then back it up with real Data! If you choose to use it or not thats up to you.

Steve first you want to compare what I was buying a year and a half ago to what you just released? And yes I do have a reprogram for a LLY, it isn't anything released but I know people that have had your LLY program ordered for since you claimed it was released and still haven't seen it. Also Van Aaken will hold is't own against your extreme in horspower and driveabliliy and it's cheaper. Some Quad programs will outperform your extreme also. You claim to have it all but I can't test one so who knows. I agree that the pickup was restrictive but I also know it didn't make any noticable output gain at all. I can fix a lot of stuff that isn't broke too but I choose to be useful. Edited by: CPMac

The tests were done at the North East Get Together Dyno Day June 12, 2004, Trippin did his a month ago and Sdaver did his about 8 months ago. So it's not data from something new but it's at least 6-8 months old to current! I sure hope the programming for the LLY is better than the junk your selling now as I've had several of your customers call here and they all tell us that you've told them "There nothing wrong it must be your truck, no one else is having trouble". I think you need to open your eyes and just read the comments on this forum the complaints are all the same.


I just got done installing the TTS tow tune ECM into my truck. The thing is more than great, in fact there are no words to describe how good it is. I have had the Quad and Edge boxes, none have even began to feel as good as this one. The low end power is unbelievable, and it just gets better with RPM's. This box feels better than the EDGE even at level 5. There is no smoke at all, just perfectly smooth power... So to rank the 3 products, I would say #1 by far is the TTS, #2 Edge, #3 Quad. If you want useful power, go with the TTS, you won't be sorry!!!





The TTS tow tune is probably the best modification I've ever done to a vehicle. It runs JUST LIKE STOCK. But a buttload faster! Mileage for me did not change, even though I now probably get there quicker.


I guess since the Edge is officially released, I can say that it still needs some refinement. You can tell when you are running the Juice, it just doesn't behave perfectly in all conditions. Mine is getting what appears to be "turbo bark" at odd times. And it shifts oddly now and then. While it has EXTRA cool features, the tuning itself is not as refined as the TTS.








Quad for LLY ( both stacked with TTS tow tune and unstacked ) - wasnt smooth at all, couldnt count on what it would do at certain rpm levels and how it would respond to standing on it in certain situations. Just didnt feel good and would surge, hiccup and delays.


Bully Dog for LLY ( both stacked with TTS tow tune and unstacked ) - same thing as the quad box.


TTS Tow Tune by itself - this is how power should be delivered, very smooth and reliable, i always know what it will do http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif








So what your saying is if you don't sell it, it's no good.


"I also know it didn't make any noticable output gain at all."


That's funny as I didn't see you there as we were doing the testing, and I love the way you try to take part of a statement and make it fit your agenda. If a customer is waiting on a LLY box they should give us call, unless of coarse it's you.

CPMac


Time to regroup and call quad for some answers. You are owned here.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


your dear friend , mikehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Mike L I told you to STFU so run along and do it.


Steve this topic is about fixing a problem. You haven't fixed a problem yet and you haven't disproved anything I've said. And I know why the people that have your tune now talk bad about the Quad. 1st they probably had a legitimate issue and wanted to talk about it. 2nd nobody and I mean nobody gets anything out of you unless the promise to live and breathe TTS reguardless if it's worth a darn or not. So bringing up other issues that don't pertain don't make you look any smarter. You were the last mfg to get anywhere in the high hp stuff and you will always be behind in everthing you do so why don't you quit fooling yourself and retire. Also I never told anybody but the first guy to have trouble with a Quad box that he was the only guy having trouble's (what was I supposed to do lie) and I never told anyone there wasn't anything wrong with their truck so don't make false statement like you are so good at.Edited by: CPMac

You are correct this topic is about fixing a problem, were doing that. You and Jr decided to take it off topic, I only responded to what you started. No one that has an Xtreme has to say anything, good or bad, I don't work that way. I did not let our High Hp stuff out in the beginning but after the insurance company approve our disclaimer I released it, the results speak for themselves. Dyno's from the east coast to the south coast and the west coast all get the same results. Your just pissed because I will not sell to you. Go back to Quad and help him copy some more and we will continue to test and resolve problems before we release products to our customers. Since we design and build from scratch, that's the way we do it. Hp is easy to make but to make usable Hp and not break parts takes a lot more time.

I'm not pissed because you won't sell me anything because I don't need anything from you. I'm pissed because you lied to me several times and I don't like liars.

A couple of technical issues keep coming to mind here.


First just because the prototype inlet tube had big gains on the test stand, does not mean it will do anygood in the truck. Why? Maybe the fuel line will just create the next big restriction so any gains from the inlet tube will be negated. Same goes for the stock filter head. A truck ran with the prototype inlet tube would be very helpful right about now.


Second,


Diesel Power and other westcoasters swear up and down that the Preporator and Fass have iliminated bursting while Kennedy and others have had absolutley no luck with lift pumps helping power output and bursting. So this leaves me wondering if it not just using a lift pump but more importantly the type(air separator) or the size (150GPH) that is also critical?


Third,


Is there not some type of mathematicle formula that can be used to illustrate the gallons per hour required to supply 600 HP and also leave 30-40 % left over for return flow? Diesel fuel has 10% more BTU's than gasoline. Turbos have 30-50% more volumetric effeciency than NA motors. There has to be a formula that pulls this all into perspective?


Fourth,


Pressure to me is irelevant. It is total flow rate that we are really after here. The higher pressures are just a method of compensating for inadequate flow rates. I.E. if the factory low pressure side of the pump was submersed in a bucket of fuel then it is safe to assume that the pump would have more than adequate fuel supply. You can only fit so much fuel between the gears/teeth of a mechanical fuel pump. Does excessive pressure really make a preset gear pump flow that much more?


These are just a few of the more technical issues that keep coming to my mind regardless of who's thread is discussing fuel pressure/lift pumps.


I wish I had more of the answers to these questions as I am sure I am not the only one curious.

Bronco http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif I'm glad to see someone has aleast stoped to think for a minute & question about all of the smoke & mirriors here.


If I only get one person to think & question then I guess it's worth it.


I'm hopefull more will.


I'm not trying to take anything away for trying new things, but some here are just in it for the money. I would rather see everyone spend less and get more.


Someone show me a hp/milage/driveability gain and I'll shut up.


Also: Some here side step and show nothing. Steve build a truck & compete agianst Quad, Bullydog, TS, or Macs Performance, ect........ at a public location & prove yourself. Then when everyone comes to you and says how did you get where your at then you will have something. For some unknown reason you think I'm negative to you, but I'm just trying to bring the other side in to play. So far I haven't seen much?Edited by: JRmac

A couple of technical issues keep coming to mind here.


First just because the prototype inlet tube had big gains on the test stand, does not mean it will do anygood in the truck. Why? Maybe the fuel line will just create the next big restriction so any gains from the inlet tube will be negated. Same goes for the stock filter head. A truck ran with the prototype inlet tube would be very helpful right about now.


Second,


Diesel Power and other westcoasters swear up and down that the Preporator and Fass have iliminated bursting while Kennedy and others have had absolutley no luck with lift pumps helping power output and bursting. So this leaves me wondering if it not just using a lift pump but more importantly the type(air separator) or the size (150GPH) that is also critical?





Couple points- My fuel pressure problems have been well documented here so i won't bother repeating them. The prep did help my bursting tremendously which is reflected in my improved ability to hold actual vs. desired fuel pressure. However it hasn't cured it 100%. my truck will burst at ~3800RPM on a dynojet. I have a fuel pressure gauge in the a pillar now, and i can pull it down to 2.5 from a constant speed of 6, which means i can't maintain constant pressure. my actual/desired ratios are closer together, but still not near perfect. I am also running the new pickup tube and pickup piece with 5/8" lines from inside the tank all the way to the pump. it has been in my truck for a couple months at least and it has DEFINITELY helped the pump deliver more fuel. proof of this is many dyno runs before and after. I've picked up about 20-25 horse and 140ft. lbs of torque.


As I've said in numerous posts before- I only care about what works on my truck and this has. I've tried every tune i could get my hands on at the dyno and i picked the one that ran the best on my truck. Lets try and keep this thread on track. It looks like it stands to help my pressure problems even more and I for one am happy this info is being shared. Without it many of us would have to do this ourselves like JK said.


Nick

Diesel Power Wrote: I am also running the new pickup tube and pickup piece with 5/8" lines from inside the tank all the way to the pump. it has been in my truck for a couple months at least and it has DEFINITELY helped the pump deliver more fuel. proof of this is many dyno runs before and after. I've picked up about 20-25 horse and 140ft. lbs of torque.





Nick I understand that you gained TQ&HP. The above quote from you is a little confusing to me. Did you gain the power when you added the pump or when you changed the pick up tube?Edited by: Bronco

I've tested several trucks under load. Mine has had the small AC Delco pump on it, which did not keep up, and hit 12"hg. It's also had my new "magic" pump in single, and now twin config. I've tested with these pumps dromant and still plumbed inline w/o a bypass.


The results have been negligible change in power output. The non lifted truck with beefed trans ran numbers right in there with mine box for box.





I dyno'd my truck with and without (power feed removed) lift at my open house, and saw no appreciable change in power





Still not ditching the lift pump idea though. I think it is a good idea to have the fuel supply under even a slight amount pressure most of the time.


We redid BMDMAX's pickup and system before most anybody. He didn't gain anything significant.








That said, I'll be offering the pickup from Trippin along with the bulkhead fitting, and likely some hose along with my "magic" pump(s) for sale soon. NOT to gain HP, but more for insurance and response reasons. Those who have added small lift pumps have reported better response. I believe that this is due to elimination of large pockets of accumulated air along with a bit more stable response to RPCV duty cycle making the fuel system's management more "predictable" for the ECM...





Oh yeah, the pumps: 2 amps, virtually silent, unrestricted flow through design when dormant, 5 gpm free flow, 40,000 hr expected life, AND no need for regulator...

"Oh yeah, the pumps: 2 amps, virtually silent, unrestricted flow through design when dormant, 5 gpm free flow, 40,000 hr expected life, AND no need for regulator... "


And they fit in the palm of your hand! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Just a thought,


Is there any difference in the fuel system of a California truck vs a federal truck?

I saw gains with the addition of the fass........................of course the were negated by craig(cpmac) as being a fix for what he called a subpar truck........Everything I have tried I have been honest and outright with the numbers(no smoke and mirrors with dyno numbers or claims of bad injectors or wheel bearings)My dyno numnbers are in line with Trippins,Dippers, Macks, Nicks and others when corrected as we all should do....SAE) ........my gains were not as much as nicks but were still gains I did not have the same issues he had or as far to catch up.........Now that the POS quad is gone I have no aggenda.............If you guys think that the pumps are a waste of time so be it...BUT I KNOW DIFFERENTLY.........Be happy with what you got Im happy with mine.....I enjoy and appreciate the post from trippin and Steve Cole I find them very interesting and informative. All you critics need to understand that testing cost large sums of money and free time that could be spent on other things.......time is money.... Guy trippin is probably the only nonvendor member that has had or tried more performance boxes than me He has learned some things, listen you all might learn some too.......SO you guys with the chip on your shoulder(YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) need to chill and appreciate the time and effort put into the test that the results are offered so "freely" here........Edited by: sdaver

JK - when will those be ready ? put me down for 1

Just for reference to cost$$$ referred to by Sdaver, I looked into a turbine flow meter to test pump flow as accurately as possible both on and off the truck. $1300+ is what we arrived at. Deduct $300-ish for non calibrated for fulid viscosity of diesel. Deduct $300 if you eliminate the amplified "pick off" to ensure EMI immunity etc.

Nick on your setup that will burst at 3800 on the dynojet, what rpm does it burst at on the street at wot? From what I have seen even setups that don't burst on the dynojet could burst on the street and generally if it burst on the dynojet it's really bad on the street. Just wondering if you found the same.

I think that from now on we will keep our testing to ourselves. It seems we spend the time and money to do the testing, prove our results with real test data, and share them here only to have to put up with the nay sayers. When someone test our improvements the nay sayers are right back with "Your truck is sub par" "it isn't true". Our products have proven themselves at many public events, for national magazines as well as the many customers that have posted here on the forum. Maybe you all can talk the nay sayers into stepping up and spend their time and money, buy the test equipment and supply the data from real test equipment for you. We welcome you to repeat the tests we have done and supply your findings.


This post was started to share information and it's just turned into a pissing match and we've got better things to do with our time and efforts.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif well said....i look to these posts as a way to gather more information and possibly learn and share as we all have the same agenda in regards to making our trucks perform better. Hopefully everyone can continue to share and help others for the betterment of our trucks which is what i believe most people want to read and do !!


"Cant we all just get along" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Hey guys I asked 2 technical questions. They were hard edged but never did they call anyone names or point fingers. I enjoyed this thread and my main agenda was to take this thread out of the name calling arena and put it back into the technical arena. I hope you do not think my questions were an atempt to derail your intentions?


Seriously After reading Nicks ealy morning post and Kennedys post, I am more curious than ever.


Was the modified inlet tube required to gain this TQ?Or was it from adding the pump alone?


Has anyone tried a pump that flowed equivalent to the FASS&PREP? Approx. 150GPH. Did they notice gains in TQ? Are there only gains when using the FASS&PREP?


Kennedy did I read you last post correctly? 5gpm = 300 gph. That is a serious freakin pump. When you say magical, you are not kiddin. Is it one of those pumps NASA made that is now used for artificial heart replacment? Serious?


I am glad you guys shared your findings, I am just trying to get a better understanding. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Mine flows 140GPH free flow, at full throttle it is flowing 110GPH @ 8PSI. No dyno gains to date with the setup but overall driveability is very good.


My truck have never burst with any power adder or stack on the dyno though. I do think the LP is a very good thing to have on the truck no matter what.

Nick on your setup that will burst at 3800 on the dynojet, what rpm does it burst at on the street at wot? From what I have seen even setups that don't burst on the dynojet could burst on the street and generally if it burst on the dynojet it's really bad on the street. Just wondering if you found the same.


Craig - couple things- i have never run it up to 3800 RPM on the street. never tried stick the lever in 3 or 4 w/ od lockout. i have used my tech2 to put it on 4 gear at ~1200 RPM, wait for converter to lock ,and lug it (just like a dyno pull) all the way to 3800 and no bursting. most all my dyno runs are done at Imler diesel on ther mustang load cell, and i've never had it burst on a 20-30 second sweep from 30-90 MPH locked in 4th.


when it bursted at teh la dyno day it was very bad. now when it bursts it does it only once, actually more of a short pop instead of multiple pops and its right before i get out of the throttle on the dynonet..


before switching from the holley black to the prep it would shudder on the street as well as the mustang, but never "bursted" as violently as it has on a dynojet. the only exception was when i stacked a big VA with my TTS extreme it would full on burst after about 1-2 seconds of WOT on the street.


hope that all made sense..


funny thing is mine has always bursted WORSE on the dynojet than anywhere else.

That is exactly the opposite of everything I have seen. Do you have the exact same programming as you did at the LA dyno day now that you are comparing it to or has it been updated also? I guess that's another description of how trucks can be soooooo different.

Mine flows 140GPH free flow, at full throttle it is flowing 110GPH @ 8PSI.* No dyno gains to date with the setup but overall driveability is very good.


My truck have never burst with any power adder or stack on the dyno though.* I do think the LP is a very good thing to have on the truck no matter what.

YOUR TRUCK IS ALOT BETTER THAN JUST PARhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: sdaver

Mine flows 140GPH free flow, at full throttle it is flowing 110GPH @ 8PSI. No dyno gains to date with the setup but overall driveability is very good.



My truck have never burst with any power adder or stack on the dyno though. I do think the LP is a very good thing to have on the truck no matter what.




YOUR TRUCK IS ALOT BETTER THAN JUST PARhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Thanks Daver! I reckon the boys at the factory brought their A-game the day mine was built. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I dyno'd my truck with Nick a couple weeks back, and the only difference in our fuel systems was that Nick had the modified fuel pickup vs. my stock pickup.


Nick and I were running the same version of the TTS Extreme tune, same type of fuel pump (Nick's Preporator, my FASS), same BFG 285 tires, same type of intake, similar 4" exhaust, and ran the same tests on the same load cell dyno within 30min of each other.


The difference? Nick put down 10-15 more HP and 150ft lbs of torque than I did.


Does this dyno test prove the fuel pickup was the difference? Not necessarily, but we sure eliminated a lot of factors.


Later at the track we captured Actual vs. Commanded fuel rail pressure data for both our trucks, and my truck's actual pressures lagged Nicks.


This anecdotal information doesn't prove anything, but if my next dyno results match Nick's numbers with no other changes other than adding Trippin's fuel pickup, I'll believe the pickup was (is) needed.


I'll be back here with the results either way.


Doug

Dmax Doug,


That post you just made was very well written. It clearly illustrates a test and control situation. If you do nothing other than add the pick up tube before the next dyno run, you result will be very valuble.


It might sound like a lot of us out here are just here to cause problems but really it is more that. We need all test to be performed in the scientific manner that you just decribed. You have a control and only change one variable at a time. Always test in situations that are a real life as possible.


This type of testing makes the results much more palatable for the majority of us here in the peanut gallery. (sorry NUT)


Just think if this website was only composed of vendors and big spendors, then you really wouldn't have squat. It takes the thousands of us low budget hacks to make all of these non-sensical, over critical post to really have something here. I beleive they call that a symbiotic relationship?


Anyways test on. Your test results are obviously going to set the stage for the next round of Q and A. I notice that you have the Fass and Nick has the Prep. Some say the two are the same and others say they are completly different from a funtional standpoint. I am taking a neutral stance because I have not done the scientific testing to prove one or the other. Your test will certanaly get us alot closer.


Thanks!

Kennedy did I read you last post correctly? 5gpm = 300 gph. That is a serious freakin pump. When you say magical, you are not kiddin. Is it one of those pumps NASA made that is now used for artificial heart replacment? Serious?


I am glad you guys shared your findings, I am just trying to get a better understanding. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif











If I told you, I'd have to kill you. I'm waiting for my patent to come through so when it's proven to add 80HP by removing air and increasing the flow of fuel through the injection pump. I have my patent attorney ready for Federal...








On a serious note:


Actually, the one that I've been waiting on arrived today, BUT it is 24volt! Miscommunication so time will tell.


The 12v unit that I have will actually only move about 4gpm free flow. If the higher power unit can match the 24 volt spec, it will move over 6 gpm free flow, and 4gpm at 5psi...

Bronco,


I will be the first to admit I'm a rookie diesel enthusiast. By trade I'm an engineer, however, and often have to conduct performance testing involving many variables, and unless you control the test environment, your results won't amount to much.


Even though Nick's truck and mine are similarly equipped, I'm not suggesting that the exact setup will produce exactly the same results because other uncontrolled factors exist. I'm more interested in any gains I achieve on the dyno by installing the fuel pickup.


My take on diesel performance is that the work Diesel Tech and Trippin are doing does provide valuable and meaningful information about unit level testing of fuel system components. By quantifying results from a controlled test environment, we can all assess the results and make informed decisions about upgrades.


The important thing is to publish not only the test results, but the test conditions as well.


Doug

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif ditto doug

The important thing is to publish not only the test results, but the test conditions as well.


Doug





Pump voltage - 12.8 vdc


Pump output pressure - 9.5 psi


Output Flow - xxxxxx


PSI at addin filter inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at addin filter outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after addin filter - xxxxxx


PSI at OE filter inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at OE filter outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after OE filter - xxxxxx


PSI at EDU inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at EDU outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after EDU outlet - xxxxxx


Inlet Restriction - -7 in.


Fuel Temp. - 82 deg.


Specific Gravity of test fuel - .84


Pickup assemble - stock


*********************************


Pump voltage - 12.8 vdc


Pump output pressure - 9.5 psi


Output Flow - xxxxxx


PSI at addin filter inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at addin filter outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after addin filter - xxxxxx


PSI at OE filter inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at OE filter outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after OE filter - xxxxxx


PSI at EDU inlet - xxxxxx


PSI at EDU outlet - xxxxxx


Flow after EDU outlet - xxxxxx


Inlet Restriction - -1 in.


Fuel Temp. - 82 deg.


Specific Gravity of test fuel - .84


Pickup assemble - modified


These good enough! We have the "xxxxxx" numbers as well.Edited by: Diesel Tech

DMax_Doug,


Great info. Anxiously awaiting the test results from the new pickup.


Dennis

That is exactly the opposite of everything I have seen. Do you have the exact same programming as you did at the LA dyno day now that you are comparing it to or has it been updated also? I guess that's another description of how trucks can be soooooo different.


Craig,


When i upgraded the pump and other pieces i had the same programming. i left it that way until i was sure of the improvements.

Steve you got the XXXXXX's I understand. I'd guess you saw an improvement too (a holley red makes the system flow more also). But do you have any numbers to go along with it that show a hp or tq gain? If you don't then moving more fuel (other than keeping the air out of the system or getting more use out of you fuel filter) its just a waste of energy.

Craig you just dont get it.........the extreme made more power on several trucks than any other single box or program..........the additional flow is necessary to run the extreme........simple enough......maybe the lesser ones you are trying dont require the additional fuel the extreme does therefore no gain in rwhp. So with that programing(the lesser) it might be a waste of energy

CPsmac here is a old post of mine where we gave you the dyno results before, you ignored them then so I will assume you will again. By the way it's the same test truck and it was done with a HJ not the Xtreme. Diesel Power and Sdaver have posted similar results and you choose to ignore them as well.








Not that I feel it will change any of the nay sayer minds but here is some real proof of the gains on a 2003 hot juice level 5 test. One run is with the stock fuel system and the other is the same truck on the same dyno after installation of a FASS lift pump. As you can see the two runs pretty much over lay each other up to 2800 RPM but above that look out! A gain of 16 Hp @2980 rpm and more above that. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif


http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/pump_Vs_no_pump.jpg

Bottom line is GM put a variable in to monitor on fuel PSI ...


Actual and command ... It's suppose to meet IMHO .... Until then whether it is for performance gains or mechanical longevity I commend Steve and Guy for their honest and forth coming "free" testing and results ...


Thank you and please don't be discouraged or allow the individuals as myself to suffer lack of info for a few individuals of opposite opinions of no need to proceed as it will make no difference ...


It's not about performance for all of us as I'm a lucky one in that avenue ....








Mac Edited by: Mackin

Sdaver why limit this to a single box when we know a stack on the TTS or any other makes more power. More power would take more fuel huh? So I guess your way off base like the guy your getting your programming from now.


Steve any other info on the truck that those charts are for. I'm guessing you've run other products on that truck? I'm just wanting to make sure it's a truck that can produce like most others. I've said all along that some trucks may see an improvement from a lift pump that is covering up from another problem. You got any more proof that this truck is ok or gains more than everything I've seen. I've said before that most trucks should be able to achieve 485 to 510 rwhp and you repeatedly duck that statement. You might mask another issue in a truck but your not going to get past where everyone else is stuck at and that is the low 500's. Another thing by the looks of that chart why would anyone need your extreme when a lift pump and a hot juice puts you at the same level according to the chart above.

Mackin you are right. Actual and commanded should meet after a certain time. The condition of the fuel system, the way it was put together, what your trying to get out of it, and programming all have something to do with that. There is only so much you can do with the system before you have to modify most of it. One simple item isn't going to fix the problem unless it's one of those unfortunate trucks and that one item is the reason you can't get to the level everyone else is at.

I think we all need 1 bad injector . I can't believe GM didn't pick up on that. Then we would all have the problem of not finding a dyno to handle all the power. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


CPMac


Please don't send me anymore nasty pm's. I don't do it, and I require the same from you.


mike

Mike I pm'd you because I thought your talking about 4 hr errections on the forum was a waste so I took that discussion to PM's.


Was that wrong?

PM's about erections?


WAY TOO MUCH INFO!http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

So I saw that Lance Armstrong lost the lead in the Tour De France today. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I think it would be nice to find a truck with documented MPG/HPG. Someone who has the hours, type of driving, what they haulled and driving location logged on their truck. We could "pitch-in" and install a pick-up, filter and pump just to see what would happen..... even if it were a stock truck. That may bring some closure to the debate. Heck, I'd bet that McRat would be a good "test" truck.


.......... just an idea. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I dont know how some of you cant just admit you are wrong or atleast shut up. This thread started off as nothing more then an informative piece, but has turned into a worthless 4 page pissing contest. I dont know what more you guys want. Dyno results have been posted. Before and after testimonials have been posted. Real world datalogging has also been documented. All this hard work, and then you have people try and discredit the findings and start questioning the results as if it were conducted by a 3rd grader for their middle school science project. We should all just be thankful that people like Steve and Guy care enough to take the time from their other jobs and test these things. If you think otherwise, then just crawl back in your cave and keep doing whatever you are doing.


I've been around long enough to see with my own eyes some of these tests. The last thing I want to do is spend money on something that doesnt work.. I'm sorry CPMac, but there have just been too many proven instances which have discredited your beliefs and for you to sit there and start making excuses makes me sick. Then to top it off you want them to divulge more info, as if it were really relevant at this point anyways. Stop being such a jealous hater.


When PPE tries to release their "additional 100hp" lift pump then you can have at it b/c everything they say is the furthest from the truth.

So I saw that Lance Armstrong lost the lead in the Tour De France today. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


WTF ??


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifEdited by: Mackin

get him sponsored by viagra......may it could get him back up to the front........could be a subpar bikehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Lost the lead per plan. They do not want to defend the yellow jersey the entire 2 weeks. Wait till the mountains. The guys in front will be brininging up the rear. Also, keep an eye on stage 10.

Cheryl Crow has been keeping him busy trying to build his staying power for the hills.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Blake

So I saw that Lance Armstrong lost the lead in the Tour De France today. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif





On a serious note, I sent you a link to a flow meter that should be capable of keeping up...

So I saw that Lance Armstrong lost the lead in the Tour De France today. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


WTF ??


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Roger Clemens Retired?


Out of Retirement?


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

I'll probably test a fuel pickup and pump when I boost my power AFTER I get my trans done and tierod supports. Right now I'm getting ready to drive the White Trash Express with the family to Kentucky and back to run the car.


When I get back, wifey PROMISED that I can focus on the truck instead of the car.

......... lost thread? What came of the pick-up?

......... lost thread? What came of the pick-up?





Any body that needs one can contact me or the following distributors:


ATS Diesel


Kennedy Diesel


Mike L, Inglewood Transmission

I'm back in town now Trip, let's settle up I'm not Scared. Tell me were to send it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif
ScottEdited by: Texas Red Wagon

I'll be having Mike L. do mine as soon as his shop schedule permits.


Doug

We should all just be thankful that people like Steve and Guy care enough to take the time from their other jobs and test these things. If you think otherwise, then just crawl back in your cave and keep doing whatever you are doing.


I've been around long enough to see with my own eyes some of these tests. The last thing I want to do is spend money on something that doesnt work.. I'm sorry CPMac, but there have just been too many proven instances which have discredited your beliefs and for you to sit there and start making excuses makes me sick. Then to top it off you want them to divulge more info, as if it were really relevant at this point anyways. Stop being such a jealous hater.





I thought that was what Steve Cole did for a living, am I wrong?? I dont think you guys give CPMac enough credit. You guys would probably be suprised at how much stuff he does and sells for Duramax's. Would you 6sp. guys have a clutch and flywheel that would hold any power?? Not trying to argure, I just think he gets a lot of crap just because his results arent the same as Steve Coles.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Burner

WD, I think Clint does have some good points. However, he refuses to directly answer any questions. He will answer.......... only as he chooses, not the answers we are looking for. We ask how much and says enough. We ask how many pounds and he says not too much. How much vacume will it hold.......he says not enough. I think that bothers people.


Is he afraid someone will copy his Idea? WTF?





Burner--------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif








Clint????????..........................are you confuzed who CPMac is?

Clint = ATS


CPMAC = Mac's Performance

so whats the deal with the pump set up ?? are they for sale yet ? and how and when can we get them ?

editEdited by: Burner

Tbone,


I think Trippin has the fuel pickups for sale now. I know Mike L. is an authorized reseller here in So. Cal, and he may have a few others as well.


Doug