What PMD Coolers is everyone using or not to keep from getting shut down when it overheats ?

After buying one of those $150 ones and seeing it's just a heat sink, I made my own.
I cut a piece of extruded aluminum, tapped it to mount the fuel driver and screwed it to the firewall.

Hi,

I'm using a so-called FSD Cooler which seems to have been made in Sweden. I got it on warranty from the dealer with a new FSD module mounted after the FSD failed. It's overly expensive here in Germany ...

It was mounted on top of the intake for almost a year, but recently I moved it over to the fender on the drivers side. I added a 12v fan to keep it even cooler.

As for the cooler, you can make your own or get some from a shop that sells electronic stuff. Any standard cooler should work, provided that it is large enough. There's nothing special about it, it has just to get rid of the heat the FSD module generates.

As a result of my how hot does it get experiments, I'm leaning toward the Heath design myself, airflow across the cooler of any kind is critical; maybe Olee's idea with the fan, or air box mounted as suggested by TDG has merit, but out of the engine bay direct is a must IMO.


Most definitely away from the engine; as on start up following shutdown, heat soak of the cooler is inevitable, so not only do you have to get rid of the FSD's heat but also heat trapped in the cooler plate itself.

I don't think that this applies to truck owners, but I remote mounted my PMD to my air cleaner. Of course, it's a van with the flat fitler, so I could just place in there and run the cabling out of the side of it. I figured with cooler outdoor air coming in at about, I don't know 6000 cfm, may keep it cool enough. It's a little tight because of the three radio shack heat sinks plastered on it, but so far so good.

After having 2 FSDs fail on the Swedish cooler I am using a Heath Diesel mounted up inside the front bumper. Pictures on my site.

One more benefit to the Heath IIRC is a 3yr warranty nobody else offers

Thanks for the reply's

I aquired a FSD heat sink off a wrecked 6.5 and tried it mounted to the manifold, BIG MISTAKE, got hot as hell. Then remotly mounted it to in front of driver side battery. But sanded FSD and heat sink down on a piece of glass till all was all metal showing on FSD and felt heat sink were both flat and made sure bolts on transistors were tight, Then used JB Weld on surface areas before tightening down bolts to heat sink. So far GREAT can feel heat sink after long runs and hardly warm at all, have only 5000 miles on it and am very happy, running great and best of all whenever checked COOL. I tested heat sink on manifold like I said first time on a 20 mile run and could hardly hold my hand on it, just like on pump. So I feel this method should work well. I think the better the contact surface with the FSD to the heat sink the cooler you will run. So probably with any heat sink that is as large a possible and FSD that has been sanded on a flat surface to mate well will dissipate heat as efficiently as possible. But I feel the transistor bolts being tight and removing the plastic covers on transistors before installing play a great part in this also. But hey after getting 75,000 miles out of first FSD mounted on a rebuilt IP that I replaced at 80,000 miles I dont think I will do too bad this way. But I do owe credit where credit is due so THANKS to Heath Diesel for this advise and I always give credit when credit is due.

homade cooler on heatsink solder splice harness extention thinking of adding fan.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/6D7_DSCF0196.JPG

have any of you guys ever tried that paste they use between the processor and heatsink in a computer? There's several different brands, but any thermal paste should do the job if you used it between your FSD and Cooler.

if you use the paste should you also remove the plastic caps on the under side?

Even without the paste I'd remove the caps Edited by: Turbine Doc

Whoops ! Sorry . I posted a blank above. Newbie . Anyway, I have a dumb question. Why not run the blooming thing through the firewall and let it ride in the cab with you? It could mount under the dash or ride on the hump. Seriously.

In the cab is cooler than the engine bay and you could heat your lunch up while driving around.
My dad is going to do ram air(intake) through the hood and Put the driver where it will get alot of air flow in the scoop and forward where it will not be as bathed in heat soak(the plan is to vent the heat/airflow rearward after the filter).

Hey, will a bad FSD prevent an engine from starting? How do you test an FSD? thanks!!

Yes, the FSD is what causes the enginge to run by setting the pulse rate of the pump. Just like us no pulse no run. The only way to test an FSD is to substitute a good one.


It helps to carry a spare, because if you end up in a dealer they will go for the whole pump at $1,500.00 plus Labor of about 8 hours.

Whoops ! Sorry . I posted a blank above. Newbie . Anyway, I have a dumb question. Why not run the blooming thing through the firewall and let it ride in the cab with you? It could mount under the dash or ride on the hump. Seriously.








Has anyone installed one in the airbox before the filter. Lots of air flow there. Any thoughts on this one?

I don't think that this applies to truck owners, but I remote mounted my PMD to my air cleaner.* Of course, it's a van with the flat fitler, so I could just place in there and run the cabling out of the side of it.* I figured with cooler outdoor air coming in at about, I don't know 6000 cfm, may keep it cool enough.* It's a little tight because of the three radio shack heat sinks plastered on it, but so far so good.

That's a yes.

Thanks to HowieE and others for your great advice and help in getting my truck back on the ruad abd explaining how important it is to keep the FSD cool.

If you mount the cooler anywhere under the hood it's going to run 140 degrees plus. The temps under the hood go out'a site in slow traffic and at shutdowns. The cooler even if it was 100% efficient can't cool the PMD at those temps. The cooler is only going to cool to the surrounding airflow over the fins, so if the cooler was say 90% efficient the 140 degree temp would make the PMD run about 152 degrees. Temps coming thru the radiator typically go around 150 degrees, more in severe climates or high engine demands. So 150 might cause the PMD to run 163.


The PMD on a test stand at wide open throttle at 3400 rpm can reach 203 degrees in a 85 degree room.(not attached to the injection pump) The same PMD attached to a hot injection pump (120 degrees) will run 130 degrees. So the pump is an efficient cooler. The grease should not be substituted for the heat pad on the back of the PMD. The pad if extremely heat conductive and unlike grease will not melt away. Caps make no measurable difference.


What do you do? Mount it where you can get cool air over it or keep your tank topped off with cool fuel. Low fuel level can get hotter and thus so will your pump and PMD.


The better solution might be a fuel cooler. Cool the fuel so the pump and PMD will last longer. Just don't mount it under the hood.

There's a man after my own heart there, thanks for that DP.

Don't forget about all of the heat transfered to your fuel before combustion.
That and the ease of removal remote mounted are something to consider.

Just another idea: What about water cooling?

You could make a cooling plate from a block of aluminium with a ring bore in it and mount the FSD to it. Coolant liquid could either be tapped from the engine cooling system, or you could make your own cooling circuit with a radiator and an electric water pump.

I'm using water cooling on my computers to keep them silent at high ambient temperatures. It's *very* efficient.

got any more idea bout this water cooling

Water is an excellent agent for transfering heat. Water absorbs heat approximately 15x better than air. Tapping into the cooling system (antifreeze) of the engine, not good because, it's already hot. Sending water at 150-200°F to a PMD, well, just add some A-1 or BBQ sauce to it, at least it will look appealing after it's done cooking. Water cooling is good, but can get complex with pumps and tubing. A simple heat sink of sufficient capacity with an abundance of cool air around it is the most simple.

I've heard the coeffienct of cooling for water was 4:1 and air is 1:1 that would be 4 times.
i like the idea of cooling mine better than what i have it (heat sink mounted to the fire wall.
I can't help thinking about all that coolant in the A/C sytem right there waiting to be better utilized.
I think that gas must be below 32 deg.F because it condensates watercrystals on the receiver here in Tx even on a 100 deg. F day.

Make a mount that has the ability to flow that gas through it and tie it into the stock A/C system after the evaporator.
not too different from my supercooler.

The A/C tubing is under some, maybe high, pressure, and cooling the PMD with it would only work when the A/C is on, I'd guess. The pressure on the tubings can be an issue, as you'd have to use sealings suited to the stuff that's in the A/C system and to withstand the pressure.

Making a cooling plate some coolant medium could be run through won't be too difficult, provided that you have access to appropriate tools. Get a raw plate/block of aluminum of a size to fit to the PMD. Copper transfers heat even better than aluminium, but you coud eventually run into galvanic problems with copper, and it's more expensive. I'd say that a block of aluminium would be sufficient in any case.

The block must, of course, be thick enough so that the metal remaining after applying the ring bore is still strong enough. (See below for what I mean; I'm a bit in trouble with explaining this in English, lacking appropriate terms.)

In case you plan to use the A/C system for the cooling, you'll eventually want to take a real big block of metal for the cooling plate: You either need to have a sufficient diameter of the ring bore, or you'll have to tap from the A/C system by making a bypass: If the diameter of the bore is too tight, the flow of the A/C coolant medium would be restricted. But when making a bypass, you cannot be sure that enough coolant medium will go through the cooling plate, thus a bypass won't be a good choice. --- I won't recommend using the A/C system, anyway.

Now, make a ring-bore into your block of metal and have core threads applied at/into the end of each bore, from where the bore goes into the block.

The threads allow you to screw appropriate mounts into the cooling plate. By changing the mounts, you can experiment with different sources of coolant medium.

For the water cooling on my computer, I've found accessories very useful which are meant to be used in conjunction with air compressors. You ought to be able to get them from where you can buy air compressors and their accessories, so they're easy to come by.

Make bores through the edges of cooling plate so that you can screw the PMD onto the plate. If the you choosed a block that's larger than the PMD, you can make some more bores which are there to mount the cooling plate with the PMD on it somewhere unter the hood.

Hm, better make all the mounting bores before you do the ring bore :)

This shall become an ASCII picture of what I've in mind:

looking on top of the cooling plate:


----------------------------------
| O O | <-- mounting bores
| | for plate
| |
| o o | <-- mounting bores
| | for PMD
| |
|

Here are some pictures to it.

The cooling-block that's sitting in my server:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/ACF_pict0739.jpg

The block is mounted to a slot-A Athlon. I use a pair of small screw clamps to hold it there. It's a rather odd construction, but it works very well :)

The mounts are on top of it, with tubing attached. The block is made of aluminium. The brass thing at the bottom is the plug that seals the bore connecting the two bores with the mounts.


The radiator; two cooling-block are connected in series:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/9D8_pict0741-crop.jpg



Examples of mounts (the 'tube' is a VGA monitor cable):

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/C89_pict0744-crop.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/359_pict0746-crop.jpg

Yeah,
Just copy my idea and supercool your intake and put the driver inside.Then pmd cooling should not be a problem.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/76A_acintercooler1.jpg
Make your manifolds horizontally, it was a mistake to configure it vertically. i might build anotherone with a smaller evaporative core.
This is the first intercooler I've made, I'm sure it can be alot better.
it cost me under $200 and a days time. I know it works because the intake was cold to the touch after over an hour of highway driving on a hot day.
for comparrison go touch you arm up against the intake snorkel aftre a daily drive. talk about difinitive contrast. It's getting redone and put on the '94 so I can use my scantool to see what IAT is reading
I'm betting about 65 deg. F on a 99 deg.F day.
Any body care to sponser this I need some help.

Edited by: quantum mechanic

How does it exactly work? Hasn't the A/C to work hard with it?


Some ideas:

If you could find a plated heat exchanger --- or make one --- that allows for sufficient air flow, it could help in reducing the size of the IA heat exchanger.

The other way round, maybe flow the A/C coolant through a radiator like the one on my water cooling (but a larger one) and the intake air through the fins of the radiator. The box around it wouldn't be much larger than the radiator; would look like an ordinary airbox.

Hm, maybe even take an ordinary airbox and a radiator that fits into it, goes where the air filter would be ...

Aren't there intercooler designs utilizing engine coolant? What if you try one of those (from junkyard) with A/C instead of engine coolant?

The A/C system doen't work any harder. This is texas and A/C is the norm 9 month a year.
Water is better medium than engine coolant for cooling. It' the coeffiencent thing, with water being higher.

I used a stock evap core so the fitting were right for the hoses. if you make a cooling block, start with the correct fittings you will need and go from there.
The hose that ties the system back togather was the hardest part for me. I had to find a place that stocked A/C parts for automotive and matched the fitting up and made a custom hose for me.
I got off light at $30 US.

I also like the idea of using a seperate water system w/ cooling core, pump and all.
but you still need to get out of the hot engine compartment.
Edited by: quantum mechanic

> The A/C system doen't work any harder. This is texas
> and A/C is the norm 9 month a year.

Doesn't it have to work harder when it has to deal with more heat? (A/C 9 months a year? Not a place for me:)

> I also like the idea of using a seperate water system
> w/ cooling core, pump and all.

The biggest problem is to make the parts fit together.

Radiators for cabin heating usually have mounts of large diameter, but you can find quite a number of adapters for putting together tubes of different diameter. Such tubes and adapters are available as accessories for aquariums.
Adhesive tape that's waterproof and eventually some silicon can be a great help.

I've seen automative radiators prepared to be used for computer cooling which had appropriate mounts. You can also get radiators manufactured for water cooling computers. But both are expensive.

I'd start with the radiator, then get a water pump, see what tubing is needed and at last choose appropriate mounts for the cooling block. You will also need something like an overfill tank that should be installed at the highest place in the system to fill it up with water and have the air bleeding out.

Before you start buying anything, check the needed parts out as far as you can. Costs can quickly add up.

Choosing a sufficient diameter for the tubings and all the fittings is an important thing. If the diameter is too tight at too many places in the system, it will provide an overall flowing resistance that can be too much for the pump to work against. Tubes with an inside diameter of 10mm is imho a good size to start with.

The tubes must be able to withstand the expectable temperatures. Aquarium tubes will probably not when under the hood. If you're lucky, you might be able to get silicone tubes. They are very nice to work with, for they are soft and can easily be bend around corners without kinking. They're expensive, and I do not know for what temperatures they're made.

> but you still need to get out of the hot engine
> compartment.

That's the easiest part of it :) You can install the whole water cooling system somewhere in the cabin or route the tubing through the firewall and have only the radiator installed inside.

Is there anything against mounting the PMD inside the cabin? You could even mount it on its heatsink at an outlet of the A/C or maybe inside the tubing of the cabin heating/cooling system (passenger side?). Unless you turn on the heating, it will stay cooler than under the hood, and with A/C on, the A/C will simply cool it by airflow over the heatsink :)


Water cooling is very nice, but making a complete system for the PMD is a bit much. Better tap into something already there, like the fuel lines.


look at these:

http://www.watercooling.de/catalog/default.php?cPath=1_5
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10464&item=7911698866&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74207&item=3493316356&rd=1

I would be concerned about condensation on and in the PMD if using an A/C or water system to cool it. While there are reliable water cooling resources for computers, these systems aren't designed/tested in an engine compartment.

TDG,

you're right, condensing is a problem I didn't think about.

Do you know the intended or maximum operating temperature of the PMD?

One won't have condensing problems when using engine coolant from the overflow tank or fuel for cooling the PMD, as it is at ambient temp or above.

Are the components of the PMD all soldered together? If they are, I won't expect some condensing to give problems.

If you use the engine coolant from the radiator resivour, then you've got to pump that water around to cool it off, otherwise the PMD will continue to generate heat into it. Thus, raising the temperature of the res. tank until it cooks itself. Then your back to a hot PMD problem.


Hey TDG, how 'bout this idea: is there anyway to continue to pump fuel to and through the Injection pump after shutdown? Or will the lift pump just sit there and build pressure with no where for it to go. The side of the injection pump is already a great fluid cooler, it's just the heat from the engine during shut down. What if there was a way to continue for fuel to flow for an amount of time until the engine cooled sufficiently to keep from killing the PMD? e.i. a lift pump timer or thermostat, something to keep running to keep the PMD cooler?

not really...very very little fluid can be forced through the pump without rotating it. but what if you could get a hold of the fuel cooled pcm out of a duramax, and bolt the PMD in place of the PCM? Then you could T off the inlet line of the pump via a 5lb pressure fitting to the return line right infront of it on the pump, so you still have 5lbs supply to the pump and the rest return to the tank allowing a timer to run supply pump and cool the PMD after shut down? follow what I'm saying?

Has anyone ever thought of using their reciever/dryer for the AC for a PMD heat sink? Its big and aluminum. Either that or a peltier cooler.This was a original thought of mine before I decided to actually just fix the PMD and make it right.


Also, I do not know the volume of air in the intercooler that you would need to cool but looking at your homemade one quantum (Looks like my work http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) I wonder if a peltier cooler (Put 12v, one side freezes other gets hot.)which is used in electronics would work good? I know they make some big 12v ones. Or use the peltier to cool water or other liquid in a resevoir and pump that thru a water to air intercooler.


Been working on the PMD and needed a break. Ran across this post and figured it would be something that I would like to eventually try!

TDG,

you're right, condensing is a problem I didn't think about.

Do you know the intended or maximum operating temperature of the PMD?

One won't have condensing problems when using engine coolant from the overflow tank or fuel for cooling the PMD, as it is at ambient temp or above.

Are the components of the PMD all soldered together? If they are, I won't expect some condensing to give problems.



Condensing problems would only be a problem for the connector (Which is sealed) and maybe the transistors screws on the back. The PMD is pretty well sealed with epoxy. (Trust me I know!) I would even go out on a limb and say that you could probably immerse it and it would be OK.

The PMD is pretty well sealed with epoxy. (Trust me I know!) I would even go out on a limb and say that you could probably immerse it and it would be OK.





SO that might help with my concern of mounting the PMD and remote cooler down low, say on my skid plate, as I have seen suggested with some remote PMD cooler's. Edited by: bowtie

The 12v cooler idea may work, but some research may be needed first. They achieve (in the cooler application) a max of a 40°F TD between ambient and inside temperature. They require a good amount to current for the cooling that they provide. (It's not very efficient cooler.) Those transistors put out a good amount of heat, and it may exceede the amount of heat generated that you would find in the heat transfering through the walls of the cooler. But hey, it would still be a great heat sink! It's still at the mercy of ambient conditions.

Anyway you look at it it would run cooler. No different than cooling a overclocked CPU on a PC.(Been there, done that) The best thing would be to move the transistors to their own heat sink. They are literally stuck to the back of surface mount components that I believe are being affected by the heat generated by the transistors. Add this with the already high ambient heat and things fail or distort signals or even desolder from the board.Edited by: mdhorban

I have tried three different spots to remote mount a PMD.


First, is the top of the intake, I had a CPU cooling fan installed on it and didn't have a failure but it got very hot, I could not touch it for more than 1 sec without burns.


I then bought a longer harness and remote mounted it on the firewall just to the side of the brake master cylinder. Still it was too hot to touch.


Finally, I found the best spot, I made my own harness 60" long (it is about a foot too long but doesn't hurt anything) and mounted the pmd and cooler on the front of the radiator on the support mount for the trans cooler (passenger side). This is the best place as it gets cool air over it at all times and I have driven it in 95 degree weather stopped and I can hold my hand on it, and it is barely warm. Definitely much better than anyplace I have tried or thought of and it was very easy. The only problem is that to change the PMD on the road I have to remove the grill, but that only takes about 5 minutes and two tools, a phillip screwdriver and a 7MM driver.

> If you use the engine coolant from the radiator resivour,
> then you've got to pump that water around to cool it off,
> otherwise the PMD will continue to generate heat into
> it. Thus, raising the temperature of the res. tank
> until it cooks itself.

knkreb, my idea was that you will probably need a pump, but I think there's always some exchange of water between the reservoir and the radiator. I don't know how much there flows, but it might be sufficient for the PMD; if it is not, you can put a pump into one line and the PMD-cooler into the other. But with a pump, you would probably get more or less hot water from the radiator in. Still, the surface of the reservoir might be large enough to get rid of the heat the PMD creates.

If it all doesn't help, you can plug a radiator in to cool the water just before it gets into the PMD-cooler, either into the lines from radiator to reservoir or using your own, seperate lines. But that leaves you with finding a place to mount the radiator.

I like your idea of using the fuel lines and having the fuel pump run some time after shutdown :) I don't how hard it is to tap the fuel lines and if the flow is sufficient, but about the only thing you need to add is the PMD-cooler, eventually replacing a lift pump that is subject to fail sooner or later anyway by a pump that flows more.


mdhorban, using peltier cooling is imho a very bad idea. The peltiers are very inefficient and need lots of power, and you would need a really big one to match the heat the PMD generates. You couldn't it mount anywhere under the hood, it's too hot there. Besides, the peltiers at last do nothing else than generate heat in three ways: At last, they end up in making nothing else than heat out of the energy they use, then, the alternator has to supply power to the peltier, thereby generating heat due to inefficiency. To drive the alternator harder, the engine has to work hard and also generates more heat. Thus, you'll have more heat in multidues from using the peltier.

If I should guess from my experience with a peltier cool box and how hot the PMD can easily get, to do any good on it, a peltier to cool it would start at about 400 W. Afair, on CPUs generating medium heat (60--70W?), peltiers start at 120 W --- and the PMD makes _much_ more heat than a CPU.

True peltiers are not to efficient, but a peltier and a heat sink is still better than just a heat sink. You can also stack them for lower cooling. As far as hard on the alternator it would be no different than the 12v ice chest that some people plug in on a long drive.(Uses a peltier) I'm not to sure that the PMD puts out a whole lot more heat than some of the new CPU's. The MJ15004's have a temp range of -65c to +200c and have a total power dissapation of 250w (at 25c derate for higher) Well these are in parallel so technically they should be half,( But can handle more)But the other components would not handle much more than half of this (+125c max for the HC132a example) A athlon xp has a max die temp of 90c I believe. Proof though is in the pudding. One individual who PM'd me (hatv, thanks!) notated +135c on the PMD mounted at his firewall. I'm amazed that they actually last as long as they do! If you don't get the peltier mounted nice and flat it will burn up in a heartbeat, plus it has to dump enormous amounts of heat that it generates. Add the power consumption and costs and they may not be worth the cooling effect they may have,would be interesting to try out though!
Here is some info on peltiers


http://www.peltier-info.com/info.html
P.S. This is still just putting a bandaid on the problem, the PMD/FSD(Poorly Made Device, Friggin Stanadyne Defect) design and placement itself.Edited by: mdhorban

I've checked some PMDs with a Snap-On heat gun on the test stand, loose from the pump and no heat sink and temps can climb to the 240F + range, and thats about as far as I've taken them, they start to smoke at about that temp, but its the best way we've found to test them for reliability. Mounted to the pump, fuel temps controlled between 115-130F the PMD only heats up to about 140-150F...again, why I am very much a fan of mounting it on the pump!Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

Texas diesel guy, at last I find someone else who realizes mounted on the pump is the best place for them.
You obviously work in a fuel shop, are you around Houston area? I have a place out here in lapOrte.
Only other place I have thought about is on the frame rail somewhere, on a block with the fuel running thru itto cool it. I am working on this idea, but not to much due to decreasing demand for this stuff with all the new trucks out.
Brian.

I made a brief mention in an earlier post about the possibility of using a Duramax fuel cooled PCM and mounting the PMD inside it, that would be only viable option I could think of. But Stanadyne and GM also agree pump mounted is the place to be.

I've checked some PMDs with a Snap-On heat gun on the test stand, loose from the pump and no heat sink and temps can climb to the 240F + range, and thats about as far as I've taken them, they start to smoke at about that temp, but its the best way we've found to test them for reliability. Mounted to the pump, fuel temps controlled between 115-130F the PMD only heats up to about 140-150F...again, why I am very much a fan of mounting it on the pump!


Using a heat gun may not show as accurate of a tempurature as mounting a thermistor to the bottom of the PMD. (As hatv did I believe) The heat gun could only read the temp thru the top of the module(If mounted) But this is interesting.If a guy could do the same test in both spots (On the pump, on a heat sink) Then you could verify how much difference there actually is. If the figures match yours then the placement sounds like it actually is not bad other than transferring that heat to the optic sensor (My next target)

If you point the scanner just below the connector, right at the base, which is where I took my measurements, I find temps are nearly exactly the same as the temps observed on the underside center of the Driver. The Stanadyne heatsink (big enough you could mount 2 drivers back to back on it, fins about 2½") provided with the DS setup, holds temps down to the 180-190F range, and although its not an active heatsink (no fan) this is in an airconditioned shop 70-74F ambient, obviously much cooler than engine compartment temps, but still doesnt keep PMD as cool as the pump does. Also, if you consider that the fuel in your tank is much cooler than the heated test stand calibration fluid, I believe cooling on the truck will be even better than on the stand.

P.S. TDG, Can you check the temp of the injection pump running on a vehicle without a PMD mounted to it? I'm curious of the temps actually present at the IP. I only assume by the placement (In the valley) that it had a lot of heat.(Without PMD influence)


I see no reason though why a properly designed piece of electronic equipment can't live with the temps inside a engine bay! Most electronic components can handle up to 250f And that is a part commercial not part industrial.

any scanner can tell you the fuel temp of the pump, theres a temp sensor built into the optic sensor. 130-150 is normal, but there are ways to keep it cooler. I dont know if you've been following my posts, but you can tune the return fuel flow out of the pump, also, lower resistor numbers mean the PMD stays energized less time on each injection, so it creates less heat.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

any scanner can tell you the fuel temp of the pump, theres a temp sensor built into the optic sensor. 130-150 is normal, but there are ways to keep it cooler. I dont know if you've been following my posts, but you can tune the return fuel flow out of the pump, also, lower resistor numbers mean the PMD stays energized less time on each injection, so it creates less heat.


Duh, I forgot there is a fuel temp sensor built in. I'm just wondering if the PMD actually runs cooler mounted to a external heat sink. May not be any better. True if the PMD was energizing the solenoid less time then in theory it should run cooler.


I have been reading some of your post and they are starting to sink in.You are definitely a valuable source of info! Thanks!


Edited by: mdhorban

I deceided to move my driver from the firewall and put it in front of the radiator.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3BD_fsdcooler.jpg
My 31/2' extension was long enough.
The aluminum cooler was cool to the touch after towing 70 miles at 65-70 mph, and it's out of the engines heat after shutdown.

I deceided to move my driver from the firewall and put it in front of the radiator.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3BD_fsdcooler.jpg
My 31/2' extension was long enough.
The aluminum cooler was cool to the touch after towing 70 miles at 65-70 mph, and it's out of the engines heat after shutdown.



Where did you get your 3 1/2' extension and your cooler @?


and what's the supercooler you list in your signture?


Edited by: bowtie

I made the extension, and the cooler and supercooler.

For the extension you need:
21' of 16 awg wire $3.50
A wireloom $1.00
a sodering iron or torch and soder
pliers that cut

Cut your PMD connector off about three inches back.
bemindful of their order, it matters!
soder in 3.5' of wire per each of the 6 you cut, go one at a time
and soder the connector to the other end.

The cooler I made out of an aluminum bar that I found at the metal salvage.
I cut it to 5" length and tapped it with a hand drill and a die.

There's a picture of the supercooler at the top of the page.
it's using the cold a/c freon to cool the intake.

Edited by: quantum mechanic

oops sorry bad question deletedEdited by: bowtie

The real question now, bowtie, is are you prepared to tacke the PMD removal or will you wait till it dies and then relocate it?
I've done it three times, it's not the easiest thing to do but I die grind the entire intake while it's off to make it worth it.

Grind the intake ?


Why, Where,


How hard is it to remove the old PMD from the IP or should I get a new one to use.

Grind the intake ?*


Why, Where,


How hard is it to remove the old PMD from the IP or should I get a new one to use.

Grind the intake at:
The turbo inlet, it has a lip
the snorkel, grind a taper on the inlet and remove any castweb on the end with 6 bolt hole.
the lower, iground the bowl and used an extension to grind the runners.
then polish it with a wire brush.

it takes about 2 hour the first time.
you need a small torx with a 90 bend at the tip.
I made my own
by bending a torx wrench and by cutting slots in a hex wrench.

The cooling available from the pump is hard to beat, while running that is. Except when the fuel temp rises, and it's a hot day.


Now that you have started talking about how well the pump cools the PMD, I've got to admit that the heat sink mounted on top of the intake is more than likely a step backwards. The heat sink can only cool as well as it's surroundings, and above then intake doesn't seem to be the place to be. At least on the pump you've got a fuel supply that is usually much cooler than what you would find under the hood.


The advantage to the heat sink is: if it's placed in the right spot, with a great supply of cool air, and properly sized heat sink, it's got to be a better bet than mounting on the pump where it will get cooked during shut down, which was the original problem.

This is the best place I have found to mount the PMD. It is very cool even when the engine has heated up in stop and go traffic to 210 degrees the PMD is barely warm at all possibly 5-10 degrees warmer than the ambient air. I have also checked 15 minutes after shutdown to see if there is any heat soak and it is actually cool to the touch so no heatsoak at all. I would advise anyone to put it there it is much much cooler than the IP for mounting.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/BEE_IMG_0062web.jpg

I purchased and installed the black swedish cooler, extending the wire harness out to where ChevyDave has his. The install looks very similar.

Just wondering, what is the little white plate/resistor for which they supply to insert in the power socket? Radio interference? Fuel pressure? Do I need it?

I left it out for the moment as I couldn't get the plug to click into place without a bit of modification. There didn't seem to be any explanation in the instructions, except telling me to put it in.

As a new member of this site, I am astounded at how helpful you guys have been in your posts.

Thanks!

You will need the resistor in it. It is the fuel calibration resistor and from what I have read it won't run good and may set a code to run without it. What # is yours? The one I have in mine is a #6 but I also have #4 but they don't seem to run any different.

The only numbers I can see on the little white plastic piece is what appears to be the casting number - LETA 9A

Where do you find the number?

dave

that is a #9 which is the highest fuel delivery setting without setting codes. use that onehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Thought I'd move this one to the top again.

I took my truck out this weekend for an 800 KM run up the Coquihalla. If you are familiar with this BC highway you'll know its a long, tough climb. Averaged 120 KM per hour the entire way, only slowing down to 105 in 5th up the steepest part of the hill.

Since installing the cooler and driver remotely out front of the rad, I haven't had a single problem. At the Toll Booth (just after the steepest hill) I stopped and checked whether the driver was getting hot. It was barely warm to my fingers.

I'm pretty happy with how this upgrade has turned out. Not thinking about trading it in on a new truck anymore.

Thanks for all your input!

Dave

I've found the same, the 5" x 4" cooler I'm running in front of the radiator is cool to the touch after working hard and only warms slightly after shutdown when the fan isn't pulling air across it anymore. Being infront of the radiator heat soak is not a factor. This beats pump mounted hands down, but I would like to see what it runs at with a thermocouple probe in place, make my case with data.

I'm glad to find that my results have been confirmed by others.

HEY QM Where did you get that 4X5 cooler from?


and what bout extending the wires how you do that?


I can find the plugs to buy and 90 bucks might be a bit high or is it?

My cooler is homemade, harness extension too. only diference between then and now is i got rid of the weather pak connector and just soder everything.


www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5238&PN=13 (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5238&PN=13)


This is the aluminum I use as stock for my cooler.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Z58_fsdcooler.jpg


This piece is 7" x 3" and the channels are deep. mounted infront of the radiator is the prime location. After running the engine hard the aluminum will be cool to the touch and after shut down it won't soak up engine heat for hours.Edited by: quantum mechanic

solder shrinkboot and tape the hell out of it. if you go this route remember to stagger your splices so you don't end up with you harness wire looking like a snake after a mouse dinner.

I just took a new harness that came with my PMD cut it away from the PMD then cut the harness still connected to the engine then add whatever length you need. I added 5', solder and heatshrink all the soldered connections put in wire loom and mount where you want. This allows you to retain the stock weatherpack connectors at all connection points. If you really want to create weatherproof seal at the soldered points put RTV sealant all over the connections before you heatshrink the tubing.

Liquid tape is also effective for restoring insulation, similar to plastic dip for tool handles.


On the Swedish cooler, I've got one, and the FSD that failed on it, it lasted there than the one that was pump mounted sending me desision of remote mounted FSD.


Upon closer post fail inspection you can see it is annodized, which by the way is an insulator, I may get flak from the vendors out ther that sell it, but I think it's effectiveness could be enhanced by machining flat both the base of the FSD and the area of the cooler that it contacts.


Since heat is one of the failure modes, anything that promotes heat transfer is desireable in my way of thinking. Running my spare FSD on the Swedish cooler now, but will be shifting to my Heath cooler as soon as I mount it, one of the things that Bill says aids in his coolers effectiveness is machining flat the mating surfaces. He claims only 3 fails since mounting on his cooler 1 of which was bad FSD out of the box. 3 yr warranty on them so he has high level of confidence in his solution.

Hi all, new to the board, but it looks like a great resource.


Just ordered and installed a GM 6.5 Turbo Diesel FSD/PMD Cooler Kit from SS Diesel in NY. Installed it on top of the engine as the instructions said to, but after reading some posts I am wondering if this is a bad decision.


link to non site vendor SS Diesel removed

Any help is appreciated.


I've got other issues, but I'll be posting those under other topics.

The intake is the hottest place to put it. A great low buck way to get it in front of the truck is to soder in about 3.5-6' of 18 awg wire and remount it in fornt of the radiator or in the bumper.

Don't know if this is of interest to anyone, the Stanadyne PMDs were built by Jabil Circuit (i was an employee for 6 years) and the circuit is patented by Jabil and the designer Daryl (forgot his last name). It was GM #1 warranty issue for a while there. The biggest issue was removing heat, but the other was cracking of components on the board. We might still have tons of these lying in the back, i will check it out. Also, there is a way to add horsepower by added a series resistor to one of the pins. I will try and find out more.

We're aware of the resistive fuel values. If you've got thousands of them, I'm sure a few guys here would want one or two. Myself included. What generation? I hear second is better than the 34583 third generation that I currently use.

Hey I'm in line for one good one too IF you find them.

Hi all, new to the board, but it looks like a great resource.


Just ordered and installed a GM 6.5 Turbo Diesel FSD/PMD Cooler Kit from SS Diesel in NY. Installed it on top of the engine as the instructions said to, but after reading some posts I am wondering if this is a bad decision.


link to non site vendor SS Diesel removed


Any help is appreciated.


I've got other issues, but I'll be posting those under other topics.








Mexico;


You bought a knock off of the Swedish cooler that in my opinion is worse than putting it back on the pump, but makes changing FSD easier than on the pump. I been that route along with many others, if I were you I would do one of 3 things.


1. Buy an extension and mount the heat sink in a cool location.


2. Build an extension and mount in a cool location.


3 Buy a spare FSD if you keep it on the intake as you WILL have another failure in 20,000 to 60,000 miles.


Just MNSHO.


Welcome to the forum and may you have good luck with your 6.5.

At the Toll Booth (just after the steepest hill) I stopped and checked whether the driver was getting hot. It was barely warm to my fingers.

Off topic. Do you know how to get around the toll booth? 15 minute drive to save the $10. Just dont try it in winter.

tacklewasher,


The PM (Privite Message) is perfect for the off topic stuff, especially toll evading routes. Just push PM below a persons post and it take you right to it.

Ask JoeServo why he doesn't work for them anymore? The idiot got caught stealing from the company. He is no longer aloud to be on the grounds of his old company. OUCH, that hurt's. Those circuits all went bad because of his crackerjack box degree.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Joe servo is responsible for the driver's crap design? No oversight on that? It really doesn't matter it's our indiviual and collective problems now.

Ask JoeServo why he doesn't work for them anymore? The idiot got caught stealing from the company. He is no longer aloud to be on the grounds of his old company. OUCH, that hurt's. Those circuits all went bad because of his crackerjack box degree.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


OK Somebody fill me in on what we are talking bout? I can't find any where how this disscussion started bout this Joe guy

Don't know if this is of interest to anyone, the Stanadyne PMDs were built by Jabil Circuit (i was an employee for 6 years) and the circuit is patented by Jabil and the designer Daryl (forgot his last name). It was GM #1 warranty issue for a while there. The biggest issue was removing heat, but the other was cracking of components on the board. We might still have tons of these lying in the back, i will check it out. Also, there is a way to add horsepower by added a series resistor to one of the pins. I will try and find out more.


Remember this?

yeap remember that but don't see that name Joeservo in there anywhere so that why I was asking

The user's name is Joe Servo

Ask JoeServo why he doesn't work for them anymore? The idiot got caught stealing from the company. He is no longer aloud to be on the grounds of his old company. OUCH, that hurt's. Those circuits all went bad because of his crackerjack box degree.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


So it appears that Uncle Bens knows everything about this, or least talks like he knows it all. I must be missing something Joeservo just said he worked for the company the built them, didn't he, thats like blaming me from what the flight crew does with the airplane I worked on last week. If I am missing part of the story then please fill us in, nicely.

uncle bens lists his real name as Bruce Lee in Japan. I could be a coincidence, or a joke. Plus movie star Bruce Lee was chinese. Edited by: quantum mechanic