For those of you who have done ANY upgrades to the Allison, how is it holding up? Has anyone had failures due to excessive torque? I'm wondering how long a built Allison can take the abuse before it begins to slip. I know the claims are very high, but whats the real world experience? Should we expect 200,000 miles of abuse before the next rebuild, or something much lower?


I ask because I have been barking the turbo ALOT latley when banging the gears in tow/haul, and I have softened up the line pressure to make the shifts a little smoother. This will help the u-joints also, but I don't want to go so low as to worry about slip. I'm the kind of person that gets stuck in rush hour construction traffic every day for an hour, and as soon as I'm past it, I open it up. I suprise the Allison every day, and so far so good.


Are all the other built Allisons out there holding up as good as when they were first installed?

Amric


Maybe too soon to tell. I have not had a complaints on any of the Allys that I have done. No failures to date. Some have been Suncoast and some have been TTS converters. I have not heard any bad stuff with the ATS mods. I have heard stuff about the BullyDog valves; none of it good, and I can understand why. I have heard other things about other companys; I can not confirm any of it and don't care to, so I will not coment.


mike

Mine is as good (maybe even better) as when first installed.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif It's seen 6k miles of HJ/Attitude 5/3 everyday (minus dealer visits, etc...). I don't drive like madman, but I don't baby it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


JoshEdited by: GMCSLEHD

It's all good here. I have been doing my best to hurt it but it takes a licking and keeps on shifting! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

No limps ,no zings .... Sure is nice to get the power to the ground !!!


I've thrown some real Torque'y stuff at it that would make a stock tranny grenade or close to it .... At least make it go crying home to momma ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I havent had any problems with mine, holds everything I got, feels like it will hold a lot more. I only have around 5000 miles on mine. I have heard some say that clutch packs might be something that will have to be replaced, for those that really abuse them after a while.

Well 26K miles with ATS Triple-Lok, Co-Pilot, and line modifier valve then I slipped the factory clutches. 3K miles ago installed Sun Coast C1-C4 Clutches. Can't complain. ATS with Factory Clutches held longer than a few thought they would.

4,500 km to date on a Suncoast Triple Disc, Transgo and TC Valve with stock original clutches with HJAT only. The tranny mods were done two weeks ago.

Mostly towing heavy 14-16,000lbs in level 2 and 3. No complains, the shifts are very solid and the truck feels very strong. Would compare that to someone grabing you by the b*lls... werever he goes; you go!

Drag racing is very nice after 1-2 WT runs to help the tranny relearn. Doing 8.9 - 9.0 secs on the 1/8 so far.

My only strange behavior wich I'm still investigating is when towing heavy and the engine braking feature goes down in 3rd to try to slow you down the engine revs sometimes between 3-4,000 rpm. Sometimes when shifting in back up 4th, it really bangs; the whole truck shakes.

It seems to do that more when it shifts on its own and when possible I try to EEAAASSSEE it up slowly in 4th instead of leting the alli do it on its own. Seems alot softer that way.

I've got about 6K on my complete ATS setup w/copilot and I've thrown a hell of a lot at it at times with not a single problem. So far, all of ATS's claims have been true!


Jason

I would hope for the money some are forking out for the up grade that they hold up for a little while. After all, some are taking a brand new $6000 transmission and putting $4000 more into it. Now the way I see it, I run my truck at 135 hp over stock for say 100,000 miles then put that $4000 miles into it and then I will have say 250,000 before it needs another upgrade. Those that had it done when new will have replaced the transmission two maybe 3 times by thenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I'll stick with my math on thishttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I would hope for the money some are forking out for the up grade that they hold up for a little while. After all, some are taking a brand new $6000 transmission and putting $4000 more into it. Now the way I see it, I run my truck at 135 hp over stock for say 100,000 miles then put that $4000 miles into it and then I will have say 250,000 before it needs another upgrade. Those that had it done when new will have replaced the transmission two maybe 3 times by thenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I'll stick with my math on thishttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Never claimed it to be a rational decision. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I'll stick with my Speed/E.T. on this. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Edited by: Trippin

hdmax


You are not running hard with your 135 hp program, you are only playing with the buttons while parked in front of your house. If you do play hard, and if you do make it to 100K, your Ally will be toasted pretty bad. A shift kit and Suncoast will not solve your problem at that point. Now you will spend closer to 6K. I like my math better than yours. Now if you spent 4K now and drove 200K or more (having fun mind you, not *****footing) wouldn't that be better? Yes, you can run a monster program with a stock Ally and make it live; but you will have to back out of every gear change before it shifts. Thats where the damage occurs, staying into it while it shifts. That is no fun and wont win any races.


mike

hdmax


You are not running hard with your 135 hp program, you are only playing with the buttons while parked in front of your house. If you do play hard, and if you do make it to 100K, your Ally will be toasted pretty bad. A shift kit and Suncoast will not solve your problem at that point. Now you will spend closer to 6K. I like my math better than yours. Now if you spent 4K now and drove 200K or more (having fun mind you, not *****footing) wouldn't that be better? Yes, you can run a monster program with a stock Ally and make it live; but you will have to back out of every gear change before it shifts. Thats where the damage occurs, staying into it while it shifts. That is no fun and wont win any races.


mike


Yea that`s right I have never taken my truck out from in front of my house as you state.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif I can buy a brand new beefed up tranny for less then $6000 when the time comes. I am smart enough not to fall for your sells pitch. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I will drive with the stock transmission until it needs replaced.


The only ones that need the transmission beefed up before it is worn out are the guys like mtomac, not the guy that just wants 375-400 rwhp. But guys like you come around and preach about how their transmission is not going to last til morning. Some are falling for it, but I'll wait until I need it. Some of us use our trucks for other things then racing and truck pulling.


Now that I think of it, your math is betterhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif Spend $40,000 on a brand new truck today, run over to your shop in the morning and give you $2500-$4500 for a transmission up grade. yea, now that is real smart.


You need to slow down on sniffing that transmission fluid if you think 135 hp with a stock Allison can't win any races. I don't expect to beat a Mustang Cobra, but there are other things to race.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

hdmax, while I do agree with some points, a stock allison will not hold 400hp at the rear wheels. Well it will for a little while, not for long. At 400rwhp you are talking around 170 ish over stock. Hot juice/attitude territory. Most if not all will agree, it will not do well with that kind of power. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


While it won't tear it up overnight, the more you punish it the quicker your days are numbered. You will never be able to hold 5th anywhere near that kind of power.Edited by: Max Power

120 tune limped mine (truck has 8.5k, less than 5k of that with the 120). Rolled into it at 70 when some dweeb in one of those other cars thought he could keep up with me on a steep hill. Never been to the strip or a pull, daily driver. Compared to most on this forum my truck is babied. I'm back to the 85 tune until I can afford an upgraded (or Mike L says he wil take my CLASSIC '89 sub as a tradehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif)

Well 26K miles with ATS Triple-Lok, Co-Pilot, and line modifier valve then I slipped the factory clutches. 3K miles ago installed Sun Coast C1-C4 Clutches. Can't complain. ATS with Factory Clutches held longer than a few thought they would.











I had basically the same issue. The stock clutches on the early ATS stuff just don't hold it. My c1,2, and 3 were replaced by ATS. I was told c4 was fine even though I knew it was hurt as I had seen a 2nd gear incorrect ratio error.





Recently, I decided that it was time to swap in the Suncoast stage V so I had Eric do the job and also had him disassemble/inspect the clutches. Guess what was hurt? The clutches were definitely better than my first go around, but pretty glazed anyhow. Plan is to replace the clutches and either shelf it or pass it on.





Suncoast V is in and MAN is it smooth! Edited by: Kennedy

My ally is stock and working good no flares or rough shifts. I have a dyno domiator on 4 and a power pup on 3. Will it hold or should i upgrade?

I vote upgradehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

The c4's were the only clutches burned when my tranny work was done. They were pretty toasted...I thought the 2 & 3 packs would be the first to go.

I dynoed my truck at 375 hp over a year ago on a stack and it held that just fine at that time, granted I didnt run it everday. But, I beat on it a lot after that when I got bigger programs. When I did do my tranny, to my suprise only one clutch pack was burned, just cant remember if it was the c2 or c3s. The rest of the clutches looked pretty decent, but replaced anyways. I think my tq converter was the main thing I had slipping.

hdmax, while I do agree with some points, a stock allison will not hold 400hp at the rear wheels. Well it will for a little while, not for long. At 400rwhp you are talking around 170 ish over stock. Hot juice/attitude territory. Most if not all will agree, it will not do well with that kind of power. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


While it won't tear it up overnight, the more you punish it the quicker your days are numbered. You will never be able to hold 5th anywhere near that kind of power.


I see what you are saying. But as I stated 375-400 rwhp. The reason I stated those numbers is because that is what the Quadzilla Stealth 135 has dynoed members here.


Maverick has the same setup as I do, and he has dynoed 404 and 385 on different days. I have dynoed at 387, and on a different occasion I did 403 with the G-Tech Pro. I have the Stealth 135, Banks Monster exhaust, AFE stage II cold air intake, and secondary 2 micron fuel filter. Other then that no power enhancements. (Synthetic fluids through out)


I know you can not run it full throttle all the time. But how many do that with stock, or with 750 rwhp? Not many I'd say. I run mine pretty hard, But at the same time I know it has to last for a while. Besides that, The whole truck needs to last a long while, so even if I had a built transmission I would drive pretty much as I do now.

I just want to thank Suncoast for their help with "Geting the Power to the Ground"!!!

hdmax,


My truck is currently residing at TTS because it would not hold 5th anymore while towing with the 80hp program. Even though I had the 120hp program I rarely ran it at 120 because of the strain on the tranny. It also got to the point of limping at WOT not towing on the 80hp setting. The truck has 37,000 miles on it and has had the TTS programming for about 30,000 miles of that.


Sure I could have babied it for a lot longer and towed in the economy mode, but I wanted the security of knowing the trans wouldn't slip when I got on it.


Now Mike L. is doing the trans if he hasn't done so already, and Steve is upgrading it to the Extreme program and adding his exhaust. So at least in my case The money spent on upgrading the trans is well spent and was necessary.


Hey Mike any chance that I can get one of your trans coolers installed while my truck is at TTS?


Regards,


David

hdmax,


My truck is currently residing at TTS because it would not hold 5th anymore while towing with the 80hp program. Even though I had the 120hp program I rarely ran it at 120 because of the strain on the tranny. It also got to the point of limping at WOT not towing on the 80hp setting. The truck has 37,000 miles on it and has had the TTS programming for about 30,000 miles of that.


Sure I could have babied it for a lot longer and towed in the economy mode, but I wanted the security of knowing the trans wouldn't slip when I got on it.


Now Mike L. is doing the trans if he hasn't done so already, and Steve is upgrading it to the Extreme program and adding his exhaust. So at least in my case The money spent on upgrading the trans is well spent and was necessary.


Hey Mike any chance that I can get one of your trans coolers installed while my truck is at TTS?


Regards,


David


In my opinion you are doing the correct thing. I am a bit surprised that at 37,000 your transmission was toasthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif I am currently at 64,600 and something miles. I have run an add on power enhancement sense the truck had less then 1000 miles. At first I tried the Juice but had way too many problems with the truck not running right. (This was way back when Edge had the Juice out for a few months at the most) I then went to Propane, the PowerMax, then Predator, then Stealth.


Unless I know I will be towing in the hills, I never reduce the power setting from the 135 hp setting. Just a couple weeks back I returned from a family camping trip that consisted of more then 3000 miles in a 2 week period. The truck trailer combo was weighed at the Flying-J truck stop in Kirkersville Ohio. The weight was more then 17,000 pounds. I made the trip using the 135 hp level. I did not run it hard, and had no problems. The EGT very seldom went over 1250* and never hit 1350* it was in the 900*- 1100* range nearly all of the time.


When they say these transmission are all different, that is no lie, as some seam to handle much more then what I dish out and never limp. I wish that were the case with mine.


And I know my time is limited with out an upgrade, and I also know that I am missing out on lots of power in the higher gears at least.

I have a new LLY truck. I am installing the new Edge Juice with Attitude next week. Can the stock tranny take it? What about after I add an AFE stage II intake? Thanks.

TheDuramax


No, your transmission can not take it. Remember what DieselTech posted a few months ago. The new LLY has more tq, and the Ally has not changed. This means that whatever hp you put into it, add the additional hp and tq to the equation. It means you are adding 40 more tq or so above and beyond what the LB7 had. Yes, some Allys fare better than others, but that is rare. Diesel 5's transmission was like brand new when I did the mod last Dec. and I called him a *****. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif I have since found that compared to the way I drive, I am a ***** compared to David.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif ( David you are an animal) http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif People here on the board post that the stock Ally will hold 90 hp safely. I have now done 28 Allys and driven a bunch more, and I find that is not true IMHO. I make it a point to show my customers what their trans parts look like and explane why this might have happened and how we can eliminate the problem.


mike

All I can say is that my Ally can handle WOT @ 5th gear doing 125mph in the Extreme mode chasing a Porche GT3


Bastard got away though.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

suncoast 3.5(the first one sold)from 35k or so to 55k upgraded to level 5 ...92k to date no issueshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Edited by: sdaver

sdaver,


What did your culutes plates look like at 55K (C1....C5)?

Seen a few failure on both major brands, but nothing that would stop me from purchasing either one.

It seams that the Suncoast has had much more good reviews on these type of forums. Looks like the Suncoast wins in just about everything except the incab controller that ATS has, but from what I understand that is something that can be added to anyone`s truck with the Allisom automatic transmission.

After doing my own research and speaking with both Clint at ATS and Joe at Suncoast I went back and forth on the decision.........over several months...........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I know several people whom I trust that either have an ATS or Suncoast and asked them to give me their honest impression of the tranny's.........


and even after that I still had trouble deciding..............


so why did I pick one of them over the other ????????


I just decided that the Suncoast was what I needed and the ATS with the Co-Pilot at this time was not..........


maybe others will decide that the Co-Pilot is needed, I don't pull in sled pulls or run the 1/4 mile every weekend so I felt I didn't need what ATS was building.........


Either way you will do just fine, even the TTS converter with a single disk is more than most people need.........


So to each their own...........





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifNY


Edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Tony


Well said and I agree. I like what Joe (Suncoast) has done with his mods and I think ATS copilot is a move in the right direction, although crude, but it gets the line pressure up there. I don't know what ATS is doing on their clutches but I do know what Suncoast does. There will be some new stuff coming out and I can't wait to test it. I don't think it will address internals ( how many ways can you stack a bunch of clutches?) I have heard it will be compatible with with stock and modified. Wish I knew more.


mike

Looks like the Suncoast wins in just about everything except the incab controller that ATS has, but from what I understand that is something that can be added to anyone`s truck with the Allisom automatic transmission.









I'm going to try it on mine. Thing is, the controller ONLY forces TCC lockup unless you do the ATS internals...

Tony


Well said and I agree. I like what Joe (Suncoast) has done with his mods and I think ATS copilot is a move in the right direction, although crude, but it gets the line pressure up there. I don't know what ATS is doing on their clutches but I do know what Suncoast does. There will be some new stuff coming out and I can't wait to test it. I don't think it will address internals ( how many ways can you stack a bunch of clutches?) I have heard it will be compatible with with stock and modified. Wish I knew more.


mike





By the sounds of it, late summer early fall should have lots of new and maybe improved shtuff for us to look at http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I like the Suncoast method, keep it simple and make it strong. The damn tranny already has a mind of it's own, adding more brains to it seems like having two cats in a sack.


For all around use the Suncoast stands up to the abuse and shifts smooth day in and day out.

I like the Suncoast method, keep it simple and make it strong. The damn tranny already has a mind of it's own, adding more brains to it seems like having two cats in a sack.


For all around use the Suncoast stands up to the abuse and shifts smooth day in and day out.











I agree. Problem is, I've had a hard time getting the power harnessed with EITHER transmission until it lands in 3rd gear. Once I have full TCC lockup, it settles down, so I'm trying the Copilot to settle it down. Puts a real damper on a burnout or a WOT run when it pauses at the 2-3 shift (40-45mph) waiting for the OSS to catch up...





Gotta go grocery shopping now. HOPEFULLY we'll get a blast or 2 in before it rains!

At WOT, you have TCC in second gear.( in the O/D position). It will stay on through the 2-3 shift and release for a milisecond on 3-4 shift then pulse on again and stay on through 5th. If you put your scanner on it you will see it pulse on in three stages, 47 %,67%,97%. If you do it as many times as I have, you can feel the three pulses as they apply. As far as the OSS catching up; I assume you are roasting your tires big time with all those ponys.That will induce a premature shift,(too soon) OSS is not catching up, it took its readiing while the tires were roasting and comanded a shift because it thought you were going faster than you were. OSS never play catchup, they count teeth as the shaft spins. Maybe your rpm limiter has not been raised in your program.


mike

I've been playing with snapshots too. It seems that the only place there is a problem is on the 2-3 shift. I believe this to be partially a fluid coupling, and partially a PWM issue. By waiting for the OSS to "catch up" I'm referring to the RPM being out too far ahead which would be displayed as TCC slip speed (actually fluid coupling in many cases) on the Tech 2. Been discussing this with Joe, and others and may try a tighter converter.


I do not have my RPM limit increased, but there should be no need to do so. IF the transmission is harnessing the power, the RPM should not hit the limit as the commanded OSS for the "next upshift" is well within the normal operating range.





Can we force TCC on with the Tech 2 in say upper 1st or second gear, or does it beep you out with a range exceeded warning? I'm asuming that it does based on past experience. I've got the Allison DOC, but received a bum CD and am awaiting the replacement. We'll see what happens when it gets here. I also have a different TCM that I'm going to try.

sdaver,


What did your culutes plates look like at 55K (C1....C5)?some haze but no slippage or limp changed to the 190 psi valve

Kennedy


I would increase rpm limit on WOT shift. I would first dyno WOT shift (loaded) and see where this puts the powerband when the rpm drops( on the upshift). Sometimes we have to overrev a bit so that the drop is at an avantagious power level to keep from nose dipping.( Transgo taught me many years ago to look for a nose up on a shift=good. Nose down=bad). You will have a very small window to work with because its a diesel. I think the WOT shift on a modifyed Duramax is a little too quick. I said a little.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

With the ATS Copilot installed (externally only), it has worked well so far. I believe that what I need is 97% TCC duty cycle, and the "***** footing" that the GM programming is doing isn't getting it done.





I'll be experimenting with this as well as a different TCM calibration in the future.