How long does anybody think before the world starts running out of gas and other stuff and has totruly switch over to the alternatives. I was watching this thing on the History channel about hydrogen and bio-diesel. That is one of the reasons I'm switching over to Duramax power as my next truck in a year or so. Tell me more about Bio-diesel, Please. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

It is the way to go!

Do a Google Search, there's lot's out there.

I recently just ran a tankfull of B100--this was to clean out any residue of PMEX fuel I had run while being two weeks in Mexico.


The truck ran the smoothest since owning it. I noticed that the Instantaneous MPG was lower on acceleration but higher on steady cruise. Could be just my mind playing tricks. But I did run a familiar 80 mile run on the freeway and used the same Gallons per DIC(my DIC is usually right on).


Expensive stuff!! $3.50 a gallon.


I am routinely running B20 because it helps replace the lubricity the new sulfurless fuel that is being sold right now in California lacks. I talked to my supplier who is a distributor--been in the oil buisness forever--his information says the oil companies have not sufficiently compensated for the loss of lubricity in removing the sulfur--remember there are no standards. He was talking about existing equipment potentially being affected--not the high pressure fuel systems in our trucks.


He believes--is hoping--that biodiesel will be blended to make up for the loss of all the sulfur.


Also, the tax credits rumored--if passed amount to a penny a percentage. So B20 will be discounted 20cents and B100 discounted a buck.

I have been using Schauffers "Soy Shield" additive in my Duramax for added lubricity. It is made from soybeans, so it may be a form of concentrated bio-diesel.


I am thinking about getting a tank, or drum and getting some B100 and doing my own blending. Nearest source is down in Tampa, which is over 100 miles from me. Supposed to be a large bio-diesel plant in Lakeland, FL.

that soyshield from schaeffers is some good stuff and i would recommend it too anyone.


i think it is just a matter of time before biodiesel is used completely. right now major city buses and other transportation systems have already switched. nasa currently uses it in some of there vehicles. i hope the swithover comes smooth and swift. we already have enough resources as it is, and this would help a lot of farmers.

i work for the 6th or 7th largest school dist. in the us. we've been using bio in our fleet for some time now , both in busses and in our maintenance veh. we run cummings isc, isb ? in our busses and dmax in our light. med. trucks and a few FL, ford, kabota, internationals. and other equiptment with diesel engines.at first alittle problems with the blend at the fuel suppliers end but when it was striaghten out everythings been great since. bio is the wave of the future

nvlcc,


What blend are you using in the fleet's Dmaxes?

Biodiesel products from the oil seed, ethanol to waste vegetable oil, as of right now by current studies, can only supply 40% of all of the demand for diesel fuel in the world in full run capacity, That makes Biodiesel another vender to the oil industry, not a complete takeover. brakeshoe

Will it be a long time before diesel fuel runs out? Or will it ever run out?It's eventually going to be alot more diesels around won't it with gas prices and everything.

I doubt that we would run out of crude, at least in the next 100 years.

But as far as a win win for America, bio is the way to go.

That's good to know. I know it will be a long time before diesel or such runs out but I was just checking.

I have run biodiesel in mine a few times and if it was easier for me to get I would probably run it more. Only place that has it around here is about a 40 mile drive from me. Last time I got some I just happened to be in that area and filled up with it. Did not really notice any difference, but I guess it would take a few tanks to clean it out...

Bio-Diesel is the way to go. I run B100 in my truck and what a difference. The first time be prepared to change your fuel filter as the BD will clean out all of the sludge in the tank and lines.


I am getting about 10% better MPG on the HWY. I can get it here in NJ or in NY for about $2.50 a gallon.


Check out www.biodiesel.org (http://www.biodiesel.org) or www.biodieselnow.com (http://www.biodieselnow.com) for info on where to get it and all the spec data on BD.


Also, check out Southern States Power Company stock. CA company making alternative fuels. listing is SSTP.

I checked a few days ago and the place that I got mine from is no longer selling it to consumers. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


They told me that I have to be affliated with one of the local refineries to purchase it now... Might have to see what I can do about that...

That stinks for you, GMC2500HD.Next town over sells it for like 2.04 I think. And my friend works there, he is going to put some in his 24v sometime to see what it does compared to his 12v he had. He could put a good amount in there since he can get it from the drum.

Whats the diff between the B100 and B20? I noticed a dealer on the website is in SD but only sells the B20?


Thanks,

Neveryoumind! Answered my durn question by actually READING the other website! B100 is 100proof good stuff while the B20 is a mix.


Thanks!

no1harleyman, Are you getting your biodiesel from Taylor Oil? I don't know of any retail places in NJ.
I'm going to set up a 275 gal tank so can run about B50. Of course the tank is sitting in my garage ready to go but I never have any time to set it up. The plan is to set it up on concrete blocks and let gravity do the work. Soon.
Do you have a similar setup or did you find a retail outlet somewhere.

Stizo,


I purchase B100 from a compnay in Staten Island.


Here is the info, hope this helps:
<DIV>Dear Mr. Young:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, you can purchase it at our Staten Island Facility currently at $2.50 per gallon for B100, (when you are ready please call Marty Borusso @ 718.720.6646) or we can deliver quanti**** off 55 gallon drums or 270 gallon totes to your site...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please advise how we may assist you...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob Lindenbaum
Director of Probabilities

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Local%20Settings/Temp/E448C8EA-076D-4F89-AB7D-146839471563/Untitled01

T:718.972.2156
C:917.699.8877
T:718.720.2530
F:718.972.2037
bob@enviroalt,com (blindenbau@aol.com)

1225 39th St.
Brooklyn NY 11219</DIV>

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley25.gif Can you run B100 with a big program like TTS Extreme?


Any issues????

I heard from a researcher at a nearby university that there is a little lower BTU content in bio. I would be willing to live with that for a source less dependent on the oil companies.


Seems like in the past bio was more expensive enough to be prohibitive but when mineral is more expensive than bio, bio can help control the price. I would think as more volume is used, the price of bio can go down too.

I would ask around before you go clear to B100.



Im just not sure what happend to BD when compressed to 20k psi.
Different than petrol diesel??? Maybe ask Dmaxallitech...........

Even better, ask Superdiesel.

B100 should be no problem. Don't forget the original diesel engine was design to run on peanut oil!


The only issue will be that you will have to change your filter the first time or so as BD will dissolve the sludge.


It also has a higher Cetane level.

I am very close to setting up my own Biodiesel kit and making it at my home. The OPEC nazi's can have their oil and charge what ever they want for it. See www.biodieselwarehouse.com (http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com) to see how you could do the same. I have done 5 days of research on the internet to find the best prices for all the ingredients. Currently with the prices that I have found I can make Biodiesel for under $1.00. Just go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and search for "Biodiesel".

Itchy, just in case you didn't find this site:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

It has a ton of info on making biodiesel.

anyone running higher grades of bio-Diesel with their Nicktane Kit Just was wondering if the hoses are the right ones, or do I have to switch over to the other kind of hose?

I bet they are fine. It is only pre 1995 or so hoses that have trouble.



Even if the hoses werent the ones, you would not have any trouble until at least B50 or more.

Current production is forcast to go into global decline in 2010. Production will tap out sometime after 2020 if india and china's economies develop as expected. This includes all known reserves and predicted future finds.

I bet they are fine.* It is only pre 1995 or so hoses that have trouble.

Even if the hoses werent the ones, you would not have any trouble until at least B50 or more.





I never did ask what they were made out of. I guess standard rubber fuel lines.

So up to about B50 is ok with rubber then?

Thanks Manny! If if you votr for Kerry LOL :D

Biodiesel is generally a methylester and known to liquify petroluem resins in high concentrations, ie your fuel line and internal seals in the IP. Running WVO requires less processing, expense time and it doesn't eat rubber!

Hate to break it to you, but biodiesel is not the answer to the worlds fuel needs. It takes on average 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil to make 1 gallon of biodiesel. Switching to biodiesel will only increase our reliance on oil. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


Hydrogen is the only way to go. It is the only recyclable fuel. It can be made from water, and water vapor is the primary byproduct of hydrogen combustion. Moreover, the electrolysis required to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen can be easily accomplished using solar energy. And less we forget, Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe.


So far, BMW is the only auto manufacturer with enough insight to realize this. While the rest of the industry poors millions, into stop gap designs like hybrids, BMW has decided to for go hybrids all together and invest in hydrogen powered cars.

&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"&gt;Hate to break it to you, but biodiesel is not the answer to the worlds fuel needs.* It takes on average*1 1/2 gallons of crude oil to make 1 gallon of biodiesel.* Switching to biodiesel will only increase our reliance on oil.*&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;

what? !

So... Just how much crude oil is in a gallon of B100 made from soy seed oil?

Oh no. I never like it when someone that is misinformed tries to tell us whats up.



Biodiesel is made from vegetable oils. NOT crude, hence the term, BIOdiesel.



Ive made the stuff, and if you start with 1 gallon of VO, and add your
methoxide, take out the seperated glycerine, you will end up with DAMN
CLOSE to that one gallon of VO you started with.



I cannot answer if biodiesel is the future of fueling, but I know that
Americans will not give up their diesel trucks. Hydrogen is NOT
the answer. At least not now. I read that packaging the
hydrogen in a useable way requires heavy use of heat. Heat will
come from crude, or coal. So from an environmental POV, you arent
making any progress. Law of conservation of energy still applies.



Ill hold back a smart ass dig at your ignorance.......for now.

Where do you guys think the soy beans come from? When you take into account the fuel it takes to run farm equipment, ship the soy seeds, and process them into VO it takes roughly 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil on average to produce 1 gallon of biodiesel. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


You guys need to dig a little deeper and look at the big picture before you start spouting your own mis-information about the miracles of biodiesel. In the end, biodiesel is no more different then say alcohol as an alternative fuel or electric cars, which you plug in at night, and which get their electricity from oil burning power plants.


Sure its great now, with so much waste VO sitting around, but it is no long-term solution, that is for certain.


pepperridge,


To answer your question, that would be about 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil.

&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"&gt;Where do you guys think the soy beans come from?* When you take into account the fuel it takes to run farm equipment, ship the soy seeds, and process them into VO it takes roughly 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil on average to produce 1 gallon of biodiesel.* &lt;?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;


&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"&gt;&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"&gt;You guys need to dig a little deeper and look at the big picture before you start spouting your own mis-information about the miracles of biodiesel.* In the end, biodiesel is no more different then say alcohol as an alternative fuel or electric cars, which you plug in at night, and which get their electricity from oil burning power plants.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;


&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"&gt;Sure its great now, with so much waste VO sitting around, but it is no*long-term solution, that is for certain.&lt;/SPAN&gt;


&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"&gt;pepperridge,&lt;/SPAN&gt;


&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"&gt;To answer your question, that would be about 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil.&lt;/SPAN&gt;


&lt;SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;*


Umm.. I 'd like a little more proof than that!

If that were the case... a gallon of vegetable oil would cost the manufacturer at least 3 bucks a gallon to make.

I don't think so...

Replace the "crude" that you would normally use to get the BD from seed to pump, and replace with biodiesel.



I agree, we need to work on it. But it is way more feasable than hydrogen.



1 bushel of soy beans makes 1.5g of BD. 45 bushels per acre = 67
g per acre. How many acres of open land do we have with enough
rainfall to make it possible? Enough to make a dig into crudely
produced diesel.



We need bioengineered soy beans the size of watermelons.



All said and done, it is a far better proposition than making it from crude.

Replace the "crude" that you would normally use to get the BD from seed to pump, and replace with biodiesel.

All said and done, it is a far better proposition than making it from crude.*




Well said Manny...

Tx Pepper



Have you ever tried the stuff? Im going to wait until 05 rolls
around, and see what happens to the price. I would get a 55g
drum, and basically add 5g or so each time I fill up. "Red" BD
was 3.41 last time I checked.



I bet you could even get it cheaper than that...

I am always open to discussion about whether or not Bio is feasable.


But to blanket say things are bad without any kind of documentation/report/university study something--is just plain BS.


This forum is about sharing ideas and information--not negative comments implying we are just wasting our time with Bio.


IF you got something--bring it--let us see it so we can discuss it. If not--go away.


Also---if you can make bio--why would you put Diesel in your farm equiment to harvest it. YOu would not. So the question is--what is the amount of land and water needed to produce a certain amount of Bio.


The additional ingredients needed to convert the oil into bio adds into the cost that has to be factored in.

So the question is--what is the amount of land and water needed to produce a certain amount of Bio.


The additional ingredients needed to convert the oil into bio adds into the cost that has to be factored in.







Yup. Thats right. There is already widespread
avaliability for BD, especially in the areas that grow the beans.





I wonder if there are any studies on this topic...

The way I see it, the focus should be on developing local efforts to produce the oil seed (a non-food crop is ideal) and an ethanol crop(can you say "enzamatic biomass fermentation"). Now you have something you didn't before. You can use the ethanol for biodiesel production and as fuel in place of gasoline for powering the operation. EtOH is 125 octane. Biodiesel has it's application but you can run most diesels on SVO.


I think we see hydrogen fuel the universe when we look at the stars, fussion reactors


We'll see onboard reformers that allow you to pour diesel or gasoline in the tank not burn it but convert it to H and then + - to run the vehicle. These systems are ideal for ultralite hovercraft for personal use.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Hate to break it to you, but biodiesel is not the answer to the worlds fuel needs. It takes on average 1 1/2 gallons of crude oil to make 1 gallon of biodiesel. Switching to biodiesel will only increase our reliance on oil. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>


Hydrogen is the only way to go. It is the only recyclable fuel. It can be made from water, and water vapor is the primary byproduct of hydrogen combustion. Moreover, the electrolysis required to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen can be easily accomplished using solar energy. And less we forget, Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe.


So far, BMW is the only auto manufacturer with enough insight to realize this. While the rest of the industry poors millions, into stop gap designs like hybrids, BMW has decided to for go hybrids all together and invest in hydrogen powered cars.





It's funny that for home building products they now look at how much energy it takes to produce them and what by-products they create. But, for solar power, the "greens" act like they are produced out of thin air... Same goes for the batteries that usually go along with them. Lead-Acid, Nickel-Cadmium, Nickel Metal Hydride. Doesn't sound too biodegradable to me...


Everyone has their opinion. My opinion is that if we don't get started on building some nuclear powerplants soon, we are gonna be in a world of hurt... I do agree that using nuclear power to create hydrogen is a great way for the country to go...


- jeffEdited by: dmax lover

Bio fuels, not only Biodiesel is all labor intensive but is interesting at the least on how much people are interested in helping clean up the air that we breathe, help stop dependancy on foreign oil supply on a regular basis, not just because of fitting the pocket book, Biodiesel can replace a portion of diesel fuel, the only other issue for cost is the Methanol which is a derivative of crude oil, so when the price of oil goes up the price of Methanol goes up, even recycled methanol which can still be used to make WVO Biodiesel, If we still have to take oil out of the ground, and we will always pull oil from the ground, there will always be methanol, ethanol can also be used to make Biodiesel, alittle different composition and comes from a renewable resource, from the stats of 1 large company and a large university, the complete Bio oil supply used and new can only top out at 40% total output, people are chiseling at the crude oil consumption piece by piece, but it is going to be awhile before crude takes a back seat to any other fuel supply. I also read here about concern of the fuel lines, we have done testing in our lab on fuel lines from one of the hose manufactures, the fuel lines in concern was the 30R7 classification which was a regular PCV gasoline resistant rubber fuel line, Biodiesel will make the line swell like a cookie dipped in milk, it will take about 3 months to do it but it will happen, there is a fuel line made by the rubber hose Companies that has a flourolastomer liner(plastic) inside the fuel line that will resist the swelling and capable of carrying the fuel. I believe the starting year for the liner hose into production on vehicle as a oem product was 1990. The last numbers that I heard on Hydrogen fuel was that it takes twice as much energy to get the fuel where it needs to be as for what it is going to give back, still needs some work, but all things start small, and they all start from somewhere and there is no better time to start than now.
Steve Ayers, Duff Science Co.

This is a very intrestring discussion. The draw I see with
Biodeisel and Ethanol as fuel replacments is that they can work in the
current technology with moderate to little modification.



The Internal combustion engine is a great piece of technology, That is
becomming better and better all the time. The technology is
allready in place and the potental is rather large.



Alternative/Bio fuels are becoming more and more available.



Eletricity that is used to produce Hydrogen Fuel or power an eletric turbine is rather dirty to produce right now.



Even "clean" sources of eletricty are nasty, re:nuclear, hydroeletrc dams.



The US produces large ammounts of Corn and Soy, this is a great source for oils that could be used to produce fuels.



Because of this I see great opprotunties in Biofuels.

Making fuels out of food sources might help market value today but one world wide fammon and it won't be economically feasible to turn food into fuel. Would you rather eat or drive? We're living in times of plenty and it's feasable now but things change. Having non-food biomass sources of renewable energy and the processes in place to utilize it is essential to our survival. In case you guys never heard, we the inhabitants of earth, are in the middle of the fifth global extiction according to fossil evidence. Species are in rapid decline and we're at the top of the food chain. How long till the bottom falls on that house of cards?

Manny....look up www.hubbertscurve.com (http://www.hubbertscurve.com). I think we're dreaming with the hundred year deal. It's going to be a slow death with the supply of oil.

Mannytranny, I posted the question, "How much land would it take to raise enough crops to grow enough oilseed, to produce the amount of biodiesel to replace our current consumption of dino diesel", on an ag website. (Not exact wording but close enough.) The rough answer, was at today's production levels, an area about 3 times the size of Texas would be required. That is just for biodiesel. We use 3 times as much gasoline as we do diesel fuel!!!

I am sure that we could never even come close to switching from petrol diesel to BD.

There is just not enough oil in the beans. We need to engineer beans to be the size of grapefruit or something.

If we all bought TDI's and used them for everything (except truck work, like it should be) it would be a hell of a lot easier.

Biofuels + 50+ mpg vehicles = sustained mobility