I have a notion that the juice monitors TC slippage and not the clutch plate slippage. The reason I believe this is because as soon as the TC locks up the slippage reading goes to ZERO. Any thoughts? Edited by: BassinRVer

It can not monitor converter slippage without the TCC being applyed because it is too variable. It monitors converter clutch slippage. It begins to do its job when the converter clutch applys. Thats when you are looking for 0 slippage, anything more than that is unacceptable.


mikeEdited by: Mike L.

Mike L.,


Reread your reply, you said it does and does not monitor convertor slippage.

I would believe it would be RPM verses Input shaft speed ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Fixed it. That was an oops. Thanks,


mike

I'm still lost. The convertor clutch is not the same thing as the c1, c2...c5. The c's clutches I thought were inside the tranny not the convertor. So is the attitude monitor the c's clutch plates or the convertor clutch plate. I was under the understanding that it maonitored the c's plates but that does not make since because whrn the convertor locks up slippages goes to zero.

It monitors converter clutch slippage only. It can not monitor clutches in the trans.


mike

I could be wrong......but I thought it read input and output shaft speed sensors......therefore, it could also read clutch slippage ???????....not just converter.........???...I mean, if a clutch pack slips while the converter is locked, the two sensors will get different readings, right......

It is possible (only Edge would know for sure) that the Attitude uses RPM, gear ratio, and OSS to calculate slip. This still leaves Turbine vs OSS during unlocked converter operation which could also be used.





The Attitude knows what gear you are in, and converter status so it is definitely feasible...

Kennedy,


Call Edge and find out!!!!

Has anyone with an Edge seen 0 slippage without the converter clutch being applyed? I have not.


mike

Since the display shows slippage in all gears anytime the converter is not locked the answer is pretty simple. It only displays converter slippage! Now whether or not they use the input, output sensor and gear to look for cluch slippage is anyones guess but that's not what is displayed.

Well.


Where are the rebuttals? I just got done playing with an Edge, Vetronix hooked up. The Edge will read trans slippage as well as you read volume when you flush your toilet. It was not designed to do this. Nothing against Edge, it is a fine unit and one of the best. It can not read trans slippage.


mike

Who said Edge does something besides stay with in the stock torque management ??


People complained, hence the Attitude defuel option ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Well.


Where are the rebuttals? I


You tell me......if the converter is locked......a clutch pack slips.....will it show on the monitor.......


......if you see a slip and it only monitors input and output...one way or another......how do you know if it is converter slip or a clutch pack???????


.....you say it's simple because it shows converter slippage when the converter is unlocked...so you assume it only monitors converter slippage....but clutch packs aren't slipping when the converter is because there is no load on them.....the converter is taking up the abuse or just slipping that much more if more torque is applied....so you tell me.

I've got no detailed information, but my understanding is that it reads mismatch between input and output shafts (corrected for gear selected). If this is the case, slippage, whether it be TC, clutch pack, or both - will be indicated. It shows "total slippage" as the % "error" between desired input and output before TC lock. After TC lock there should be no error (i.e. slippage) in the shaft comparison. That leads me to believe that slippage is slippage - and if you are showing slip values in TC lock it is TC, clutches, or both. Since there have been many more burnt clutch packs replaced than burnt TC's - I think it reads CLUTCH slip in most of those cases. (Just my personal analysis and reasoning on what I know.)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I've got no detailed information, but my understanding is that it reads mismatch between input and output shafts (corrected for gear selected). If this is the case, slippage, whether it be TC, clutch pack, or both - will be indicated. It shows "total slippage" as the % "error" between desired input and output before TC lock. After TC lock there should be no error (i.e. slippage) in the shaft comparison.


.....that's what I was trying to say.....you did a better job explaining it than I did though.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

George


First of all, a trans can slip without the converter being locked. The Edge doesn't tell you the clutch is not slipping, so how can it tell you it is slipping?( trans clutch ) I know what you are trying to say, and the only way you are going to find this out is create a clutch slip while the converter clutch is on and watch the Edge ( while it is on 0) and see what it says a split second before the TCM goes to limp and throws a gear ratio error code. I do not believe this test would work on a stock Ally because the converter is suspect to begin with.


mike

Mike


First of all, the converter in fluid coupling mode is doing all the slipping....could a clutch pack slip while in this mode...if you say so....do I think it is happening in this situation....NOPE. You have all these people taking guess' at a situation very few have been in.....anyone here ever have a converter that would hold a tranny that wouldn't.......ding ding ding....we have a winner. I guess first hand experience doesn't count here. I guess I have to bow out of another one.......

The converter is multiplying torque when it is not locked up. People call this slip but it is nothing more than a fluid coupling trying to get efficient. Picture this; You have two opposing fans face to face, and you want to spin them with a water hose.You point the water hose at one fan and it throws the fluid at the other fan, and it begins to spin.( we are begining to get efficient) but, the water spray starts hitting the opposing spray ( kinda kills the good idea) but, we add a turbine in the middle to redirect the spray to our advantage ( turbine on one side sprays fluid to drive other side and middle turbine, which is the stator redirects this fluid in a much more efficient way) and we start to drive the fans faster. We are now making torque. This is called converter slip. The lock-up clutch within the converter stops all of this process ( it no longer multiplys torque because it just became a stick shift type unit). Now (after converter clutch is applyed), you are the same as if you had a stick shift. No slip (unless you burned the converter clutch). Clutches slip all the time without the converter being locked. Edge can not read anything beyond the converter efficiency.


mike