I just got done installing the TTS tow tune ECM into my truck. The thing is more than great, in fact there are no words to describe how good it is. I have had the Quad and Edge boxes, none have even began to feel as good as this one. The low end power is unbelievable, and it just gets better with RPM's. This box feels better than the EDGE even at level 5. There is no smoke at all, just perfectly smooth power... So to rank the 3 products, I would say #1 by far is the TTS, #2 Edge, #3 Quad. If you want useful power, go with the TTS, you won't be sorry!!!

I have no real reason to need one of these (Tow Tune) but I have a few questions. Will it help with your mileage on a bone stock truck? I don't have a lead foot so will the stock trans last as it should? I think I saw it written sometime back that it was made (the Tow Tune)for the 80,000 mi crowd to have a little kick when they needed it and towing ect. That is why I would look into one but my truck needs to go at least 250K mi as trouble free as possible. I have always been the believer of the more sh*t you've got, the more sh*t you've got. Your opions please.

Thx

Bruce

What happened with Sluggish Take off ?? Last I knew you were heading to the dealer ....


I will say the TTS is definately a smooth power maker .... I can't comment on the Tow tune ,switch doesen't sit in the middle ,sorry ...


Plus I have a LB7 ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Mackin

Bruce


The Tow tune was developed for people who want more kick in the butt and pulling power without needing other modifications. How long the transmission will last depends on how you use the truck. We have been getting reports from our LB7 customers that this power level has worked perfect for upto 80,000 miles of heavy towing with no trouble but above that we have seen some transmission failures. Not ones that put you on the side of the road but the transmission goes into limp mode when pulling steep grades in high gear. Simple slowing down and pulling in 4th gear solve the issue but it let's us have a good idea what's going on. I have also gotten reports of stock trucks failing under like conditions so we are not sure it's the extra power or normal. We just want everyone to know there is a risk, however little it might be.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


As far as the more $hit you got.................. remember we are only changing the OEM program not adding more parts to the truck.

The TTS tow tune is probably the best modification I've ever done to a vehicle. It runs JUST LIKE STOCK. But a buttload faster! Mileage for me did not change, even though I now probably get there quicker.


I guess since the Edge is officially released, I can say that it still needs some refinement. You can tell when you are running the Juice, it just doesn't behave perfectly in all conditions. Mine is getting what appears to be "turbo bark" at odd times. And it shifts oddly now and then. While it has EXTRA cool features, the tuning itself is not as refined as the TTS.


This is not because I'm Stacking. I have a stock PCM as well as a TTS version. The quirks in the Edge exist both stacked and unstacked.


For now, even though I have both, I'm running the TTS solo for now.


But... in 30 seconds, I can plug the Edge on top of the TTS, and it REALLY hauls ass!@

PS - How much improvement does the TTS actually make? With my truck about 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4mi. 65rwhp on a dyno should only get me about 0.7 seconds improvement, but for some reason the TTS just sneaks down the track much quicker than it should.

Just curious, which program would everyone recommend for towing under 10,000 lbs and light driving around town, TTS Tow or Edge? Pro's and Con's... Thanks in advance!

I towed 8,000lb with the TTS in the desert at about 16,000 combined weight. There was never a point at which I couldn't a big speeding ticket even at high altitude up a 6% grade.


If I get some bugs worked out, I might drive to Kentucky towing the racecar with the TTS, and drive back using the Edge on "Tow" and report the mileage and performance.

Ok you hooked me where to I get one? What other mods have you done as far as exhaust to your truck McRat?

ive gotta say the TTS kicks some ass - ive had it on for 9 days now and its f'n great, no hiccups to report, very smooth power and lots of it for only being a tow tune. I also tow a toy hauler and like mcrat said theres no time at all that im lacking for power, even on the steepest grades going over the sierras to reno from sactown. In fact my buddies have been getting pissed at me as im flying through the mountains with 9-10k lbs behind me and theyre lugging there gassers through with only motorcycle trailers - LOL...

Ok you hooked me where to I get one? What other mods have you done as far as exhaust to your truck McRat?


At the time I did my testing with the TTS, the truck was stock.


Now I have removed the cat to reduce backpressure, and I was GOING to do a cutout for the track, but the Muffler Shop screwed me up.


For daily use and towing, as well as some good natured street-fights, you really don't need to do anything else. Just makes it a nicer truck all around.

The idea of using a programmer for boosting power is appealing to me, since there is nothing under the hood to be discovered by a dealer shop in the event of service or especially if service is required while on the road and I would not have time to take a module out. My question is, however, is there anyway of the dealer knowing that the ECM has been reprogrammed? Is there a tell-tale code or bit that is set in the ECM that a Tech II could pick up, or is there a chance that they would notice some discrepant values in the ECM programming while doing diagnostic work. If this were true, I can see that this would be a downside, since the only way to return the truck to stock is to send the ECM back to TTS to be reflashed to stock. So, I guess my one question went off in many directions, but bottomline, will anyone other than me (and any passengers noting the performance increase) be able to know that I modified the ECM programming?

good question - youre best bet is to get the tow tune on a new computer, then you will have your stock and a new one with the tow tune and can switch when taking in to the stealer

They will know as soon as they drive it and floor the throttle. While it is VERY smooth, the increase in power is very noticeable. You know how your truck feels after towing a trailer, then you unhook it and drive it again? That's how this tune feels.


Your best bet (what I did) is to buy an extra PCM that is Stock.


Should I have to go to the dealer, they will not know, nor have anyway of telling that it was once tuned.


I'm not a TTS cheerleader. I've written WAY more "bad" reviews of products than "good". Usually you always give up something in exchange for performance. GM is not staffed with idiots, it is harder to improve on OEM engines that it first appears without affecting driveability. In the case of this mod, the program is at least as smooth as stock at all areas of operation, and smoother in some areas.Edited by: McRat

So, your'e in your truck at a stand still, and you hit the pedal at around half way down, or even all the way down, is there any lag??

my answer will be 2 parts - NO LAG !!! i, however, do have a slight lag off the line as I have a 4" lift with 305's, but that has to do with the lift since it was like that before the TTS Tune was installed. It was actually better with the tune in my case. I will say this, the TTS Rips, i can hit a corner, nail it and spin the wheels and spin some more when it hits 2nd !! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

My truck has lag ??


But http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


By the time it catches and your oughta first gear (which is mighty quick) boost needle hits 20 PSI your well planted in your seat ... At that point them meats out back are looking for traction thru third gear ...





Oh wait, you guys got that LIL baby tune,sorry ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I just tried to stack the Edge and the TTS, it SUCKED!! I would not recommend doing this. The truck had a bad turbo bark and alot of noise. I tried it on all five levels, none of which felt a whole hell of alot faster. Stick w\ the TTS as a standalone

So, I guess my only remaining question would be, how much is a new PCM? Also, is there any concern to be had with swapping PCM's on the truck? Does it affect any other systems? My assumption was that taking it back to the dealer with this tune in the PCM would be likely to be discovered, I was just wondering how to best get around this. Thanks again.

So, your'e in your truck at a stand still, and you hit the pedal at around half way down, or even all the way down, is there any lag??


Yes there is some lag on my truck, but WAY less than stock. All turbos have lag, but it truly jumps off a stoplight compared to stock.


To put it in perspective, to cover the first 60 feet took me 2.64 seconds before the TTS, and 2.10 seconds after. It's a HUGE difference off the line, and few cars will beat you across an intersection unless you let them, and I'm talking Vipers and Corvettes. It out 60'd a Viper at the Dragstrip. Twice in a row.

Is the Turbo going to be a blocker for the LLY to be a contender ??


My LB7 stock just went up !!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif





KOOP


Um, Turbo ,all well ?? I'm a stickler for follow ups .... You can PM if you don't want a public anoucement ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I just tried to stack the Edge and the TTS, it SUCKED!! I would not recommend doing this. The truck had a bad turbo bark and alot of noise. I tried it on all five levels, none of which felt a whole hell of alot faster. Stick w\ the TTS as a standalone








Do you have the latest Juice release? It's better, but still needs some more refinement with the turbo. Mine certainly "feels" like it goes quicker stacked, but "feels" and "is" can be two different things. I will try to do a "stacked" pass (and a standalone) next Sat if I can get the Vette to run correctly first.

Is the Turbo going to be a blocker for the LLY to be a contender ??


My LB7 stock just went up !!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif





KOOP


Um, Turbo ,all well ?? I'm a stickler for follow ups .... You can PM if you don't want a public anoucement ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif





Obviously the turbo CAN be controlled smoothly as the TTS proves. And the Edge I'm running now I believe is the production release, and it's better.


Is the turbo on the LLY effective? Anyone cutting 2.10 60' times with just a "50hp" tow tune at 7500lb? Seems like it's kicking ass and taking names...

ohhhhhhhhhh weeeeee !!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Wazzup with the stacking I guess "fooling" the boost signal aint cutting it ??


Anyone able to see the actual boost reading barking the turbo ??


Mac

It KNOWS when I'm looking at the gauge. It will never do it when I'm looking, and I can't make it do it on command.


Not absolutely sure if it is "bark", but other people have witnessed it, and thought the same thing.


I should keep my yap shut about it, as I'm not 100% sure I'm running the production release yet, I'm waiting on a response back.

OOPPSS!!!


OK, that's what I get for jumping the gun. I do NOT have the production release, I'm still running on the Beta version, so I shouldn't have said anything.


I will shut up about the Edge until I get the production piece and test again.

So, I guess my only remaining question would be, how much is a new PCM? Also, is there any concern to be had with swapping PCM's on the truck? Does it affect any other systems? My assumption was that taking it back to the dealer with this tune in the PCM would be likely to be discovered, I was just wondering how to best get around this. Thanks again.


I believe a PCM can be had for ~$350 but you'd have to check with TTS. New from the dealer they are much more.


There is no worry with swapping PCM's. doesn't affect anything else like odometer, etc. actually swapping the LLY pcm is easier than the LB7 one. it took a whole 4 minutes to switch tbone's at the dyno..

So everyone knows, swapping the ECM will change the oil change interval reading. This information gets affected by swapping but that's it, everything else remains the same. Cost of a good LLY ECM is $400.00 , these are not new ECM's but are good working units. A new unit at the local GM dealer was $1200.00 plus core of $400.00 last time I checked.

would someone break it down for me on what a PCM or a ECM is....i looked on the tts site and saw that you have to swap somthing?...how does this tts sytem work? and what componets from tts do you have to have to get the performance gains...or is it just the tow tune....and how much does it cost for the setup? if not allowed to say on here, please PM me with info.......thanks for the help!


Jared


Edited by: Dawgj77

theres 2 ways you can get the TTS program - by sending your PCM to them for the tuning ( truck out of commission while its out ), or buy a new PCM from TTS with the programming already in there so when you get it back you just swap it out with your stock PCM and youre ready to roll. Right now they only offer a Tow Tune for the LLY but will probably offer advanced HP gains down the road as they did with the the LB7 model. When more tunes become available you just swap back to stock and send in your TTS PCM for the new program and walla, new tunes ! and dont think its not fast just because its labeled as a tow tune, it produces awesome power gains and very smooth throughout - i dynoed it and got an extra 61hp out of the tow tune - its billed as a 50hp tune ! and its also designed to be used in a stock tranny so as to not hurt your truck

ECM=Engine Control Module


PCM=Power control Module





One and the same ...





Mac

The PCM is the Master Brain for your truck. It has more computer power than the control computer on the space shuttle. It can be reprogrammed with new instructions and data using special computer software. It also has scratch pad memory so the truck can "learn" your driving style.


TTS rewrites the data tables and some of the instructions to increase the performance. Steve Cole (TTS) is a HARDCORE computer freek who probably has enough computer crap to shut down NORAD. He's very knowledgeable, friendly and works on some of the trickest vehicles on the planet. I won't say what I saw there when I stopped by, but DAMN!!! He's got every hot-rodder's dream job.


The PCM itself is "married" to your truck by GM (or TTS). Your PCM will only work in YOUR truck by design. It's a 6"x8"x2" aluminum casting that is located at the driver's side front of the engine bay, about 1 foot down.





would someone break it down for me on what a PCM or a ECM is....i looked on the tts site and saw that you have to swap somthing?...how does this tts sytem work? and what componets from tts do you have to have to get the performance gains...or is it just the tow tune....and how much does it cost for the setup? if not allowed to say on here, please PM me with info.......thanks for the help!


Jared

How does the tow tune work with a manual transmission.Is it worth it?Thanks

I found a TTS web site but no mention of the tow tune. Where can I learn more?


Never mind I found it!


ThanksEdited by: Godfreys

actually pcm stands for powertrain control module,which on later years also control trans related functions,where as the ecm control engine functions.Also as a gm tech,If we have a problem and we think it is software porblem,we can request info with a tech 2 and download it into our gm t-8 computers which is linked via satelite to gm.It then will let us know what programm is in the computer and what progamm should be in it.If there is a software update,we can download it at that time and load it into the vehicle.Gm quite often comes out with upgraded software to repair certain problems.So in answer to everybody question,can dealers tell if a aftermarket programm is in the pcm-yes.Most dealer mechanics are pretty cool,and most want say anything about mods,unless there is no way around a warranty situation. It is a good idea to get to know the guy who is working on it

thanks for your info tmartin - im curious to know if the tech would be able to tell if you had changed the PCM, as in you take out the tuned version and put the stock PCM back in - could they tell ??

Does TTS have a web site or does anybody have there # handy. Thanks

http://www.ttspowersystems.com/

tbone1227 to answer your question,no probably not unless the entire engine is filthy and the pcm is spotless.But we really dont care too much,all we do is try to fix the concern,we are not out to catch somebody doing something like that. tmartin

thanks again, that makes sense to me - a big part of the warranty issue is like you said "get to know the person working on your truck", i made sure i did that from day 1 with both the service writer and tech and havent had any problems yet

Tmartin...I wish all techs had the same attitude you did.

Thanks for the in detail answers, everyone!


ok, now is there a break-in proceedure? Do you recommend gauges?


I will have the 4" exhaust on 1st.

For anyone with a tts tow tune or edge on tow installed, have you noticed a difference in rpms at same speed as before. ie 2100 rpm at 75 mph interstate? as opposed to 2300 rpms

For anyone with a tts tow tune or edge on tow installed, have you noticed a difference in rpms at same speed as before. ie 2100 rpm at 75 mph interstate? as opposed to 2300 rpms


Unless your transmission starts sliping there will be no change in RPM Vs MPH. MPH is created from the engine rpm + transmission gear + rear axle gear + tire diameter. So unless one of these changes the relationship will be the same regardless of any power adder.

W/ the extra power u can run larger tires which lower your rpm and still have more power than stock.


If u want to drop rpm at cruise get rid of the 245 and go 265 or bigger.

So after reading all this...Should I go with TTS tow tune and get new tunes once they come out, instead of getting either Edge/Attitude or the Banks Six Gun w/spd loader?